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Marko rant about Mercedes, Pirelli and Liberty


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#101 Pimpwerx

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 10:23

A simple solution would be to allow additional tyre manufacturers into the sport, bring Goodyear back and Bridgestone then teams have their own choice.....

Um...no. Tire war? Higher costs? Preferential treatment for the large customers allied with each brand? You might not have been watching during the BStone-Michelin days, but this is exactly what the FIA wanted to get away from. It only makes the sport more expensive, while disadvantaging the smaller teams. This is not a good suggestion.



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#102 pdac

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 10:25

Red bull started out as a fun team......whatever happened to David Coulthard leaping into the Moncao swimming pool wearing a cape? How did that become "We demand to win" ?

 

Simple. They were on their way up then. They started fresh and then they rose to tremendous success. Now they have dropped back and they are in a world of reality where you can't always win and there are factors outside your control that can prevent you from winning.



#103 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 10:29

Simple. They were on their way up then. They started fresh and then they rose to tremendous success. Now they have dropped back and they are in a world of reality where you can't always win and there are factors outside your control that can prevent you from winning.

 

I never really warned to Red Bull, with that in mind I have always found them very self entitled and anything but a fun team, they more than most teams behave like petulant children.

 

:cool:



#104 Pimpwerx

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 10:30

It's very easy to just ridicule what Marco is saying. But in fact only a few are really addressing the point he's trying to make.

 

I really don't know when 'politics' become a conspiracy but what I don't understand is why FIA / Liberty are not making more of an effort in avoiding the appearance of a conflict of interests. What would be the reaction next year if the tyres were reverted to 2018 specs and all F1 officials would have switched to Astons?

The Merc has been the safety and medical car of F1 for as long as I can remember taking notice. Pirelli is the official tire of the sport, so a big "duh" on that one.

 

It is totally a conspiracy, because a majority of the teams approved the change to the thinner tread this year. Helmut is a jackass, that's all this is. He's stoking the fire, because he knows people like you aren't aware of how the current situation actually came about. There's actually 1 team that has more power than all the others, and that's NOT Mercedes. You can take a guess at which team wields obnoxious veto power, and went against more drastic changes to the regulations. There's 1 team that seems perfectly fine with protecting their non-winning ranking, and gets paid more just to show up, than some teams get for their placement in the WCC points.

 

It's amazing that Mercedes gets flack because they're winning, when they actually no greater power in this sport than Red Bull, who have repeatedly threatened to walk away.



#105 krapmeister

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 10:39

Marko is just trying to distract from RBR under-delivering so far this year, and he is bricking it that Verstappen is going to leave them...

#106 Marklar

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 10:40

It's very easy to just ridicule what Marco is saying. But in fact only a few are really addressing the point he's trying to make.

 

I really don't know when 'politics' become a conspiracy but what I don't understand is why FIA / Liberty are not making more of an effort in avoiding the appearance of a conflict of interests. What would be the reaction next year if the tyres were reverted to 2018 specs and all F1 officials would have switched to Astons?

I mean it's fairly easy to address his points
 

 

It's noticeable that the rule changes and decisions have always been good for Mercedes lately

Last race Ricciardo wasnt penalized for his very very borderline defensive against Bottas. Were the FIA this biased as Marko thinks they had penalized it. On that note, this is the same person who thinks that Hamilton should have been penalized in Monaco for Verstappen hitting him  :cat: 

 

 

Pirelli has changed the tire tread for 2019 so they will not overheat, but 2018 had only Mercedes a problem with it.

This is a lie. As others reported, besides Mercedes also McLaren and Ferrari supported the intrduction of the thin thread tyres for high speed tracks. And nobody complained when Pirelli decided to change to it full time for 2019.

 

 

 

In 2019 suddenly only Mercedes gets the temperatures always in the correct working window.

Wrong. Both Hamilton and Bottas have complained various times about not getting their tyres into the window.

 

 

 

All other not.

Wrong again. McLaren came out and said that they are happy with the tyres.

 

 

 

We all had the opportunity to react to it, but the concepts of the cars were all designed for less downforce. Only Mercedes chose to build a car with a lot of downforce and traction - in hindsight, that was exactly the way to get the most from the new-generation tires."

 
Marko continues, "Although I can not prove that Mercedes got data earlier than we did, I can not rule it out

TLDR: Marko is salty that Mercedes got the concept right and they not.

Interesting point on that. Mercedes used during the Abu Dhabi GP a extra sensor on Hamilton's car, which they normally would never use because it would be too heavy and aerodynamically not optimal. But the reason why they did that was that they were able to test next years tyres in the post-Abu Dhabi test with this sensor (in the test all teams had to use the exact same car as during the race). Not surprised that Marko is not mentioning this.

 

 

 but it does not boost confidence when you look at Liberty company car (it's a Mercedes), with a Stuttgart number in the Monaco paddock, with Pirelli tires on it

Mercedes cars have been used for much longer than Mercedes is in F1  :cat: 

There. Enough?


Edited by Marklar, 12 June 2019 - 10:44.


#107 Fatgadget

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 10:51

It's very easy to just ridicule what Marco is saying. But in fact only a few are really addressing the point he's trying to make.

 

I really don't know when 'politics' become a conspiracy but what I don't understand is why FIA / Liberty are not making more of an effort in avoiding the appearance of a conflict of interests. What would be the reaction next year if the tyres were reverted to 2018 specs and all F1 officials would have switched to Astons?

No reaction from me at least...I have no vested interests in neither! :p



#108 carlb5253

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 10:51

So let me get this straight, Red Bull chose not to build a car with loads of downforce because of the tyres?  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:



#109 KevD

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 11:06

The Merc has been the safety and medical car of F1 for as long as I can remember taking notice. Pirelli is the official tire of the sport, so a big "duh" on that one.

 

It is totally a conspiracy, because a majority of the teams approved the change to the thinner tread this year. Helmut is a jackass, that's all this is. He's stoking the fire, because he knows people like you aren't aware of how the current situation actually came about. There's actually 1 team that has more power than all the others, and that's NOT Mercedes. You can take a guess at which team wields obnoxious veto power, and went against more drastic changes to the regulations. There's 1 team that seems perfectly fine with protecting their non-winning ranking, and gets paid more just to show up, than some teams get for their placement in the WCC points.

 

It's amazing that Mercedes gets flack because they're winning, when they actually no greater power in this sport than Red Bull, who have repeatedly threatened to walk away.

 

All fair but NOT my point at all. I'm not implying there is a conspiracy or Mercedes are abusing power. My point is that the F1 organisation should do more to avoid the appearance of a conflict of interest. For instance: since the Mercedes works team became an official competitor in the championship F1 should have gotten rid of them as the sole supplier of company cars and fast service vehicles. It just doesn't seem right. Other, more neutral car makers without an interest can supply them just as well.



#110 KevD

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 11:10

Marko is just trying to distract from RBR under-delivering so far this year, and he is bricking it that Verstappen is going to leave them...

 

Yeah well, these kinds of replies are like farts: smelly as hell, but no substance  :p



#111 krapmeister

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 11:12

Yeah well, these kinds of replies are like farts: smelly as hell, but no substance  :p

 

He who smelt it, dealt it...



#112 KevD

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 11:28

I mean it's fairly easy to address his points
 

Last race Ricciardo wasnt penalized for his very very borderline defensive against Bottas. Were the FIA this biased as Marko thinks they had penalized it. On that note, this is the same person who thinks that Hamilton should have been penalized in Monaco for Verstappen hitting him  :cat: 

 

This is a lie. As others reported, besides Mercedes also McLaren and Ferrari supported the intrduction of the thin thread tyres for high speed tracks. And nobody complained when Pirelli decided to change to it full time for 2019.

 

Wrong. Both Hamilton and Bottas have complained various times about not getting their tyres into the window.

 

Wrong again. McLaren came out and said that they are happy with the tyres.

 

TLDR: Marko is salty that Mercedes got the concept right and they not.

Interesting point on that. Mercedes used during the Abu Dhabi GP a extra sensor on Hamilton's car, which they normally would never use because it would be too heavy and aerodynamically not optimal. But the reason why they did that was that they were able to test next years tyres in the post-Abu Dhabi test with this sensor (in the test all teams had to use the exact same car as during the race). Not surprised that Marko is not mentioning this.

 

Mercedes cars have been used for much longer than Mercedes is in F1  :cat: 

There. Enough?

 

I appreciate the effort but I don't think the examples you give match the kinds of ruling Marco is implying. It's obviously not about the stewarding but the way the rule changes are governed. While it may be true that no one objected the new tyre specs, Marco suggest that not everyone had access to the same information at the same time. There's no way for you or me to know this for a fact, but it doesn't help that Mercedes is also supplying company cars to F1 officials, does it? They may have been used longer than Mercedes is in F1 but why should still be the case now Merc is a competitor?



#113 Pimpwerx

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 11:40

All fair but NOT my point at all. I'm not implying there is a conspiracy or Mercedes are abusing power. My point is that the F1 organisation should do more to avoid the appearance of a conflict of interest. For instance: since the Mercedes works team became an official competitor in the championship F1 should have gotten rid of them as the sole supplier of company cars and fast service vehicles. It just doesn't seem right. Other, more neutral car makers without an interest can supply them just as well.

Sure, but is it a necessary extra expense? My understanding is they're pretty tricked out cars, as if you see them live, you realize that they are extremely fast for production cars. I'd wager they were both faster than the Malaysia Super Series sports cars that weekend. It's one of those, if it aint broke, don't try to fix it. Any appearance is impropriety is either to the uninitiated, or those searching for conspiracy. If they used Ferraris, I wouldn't bat an eye, because there's honestly no reason for a couple of cars to make any difference in how the governing body views a manufacturer that they already pay tens of millions of dollars in WCC money each year. It's a drop in the ocean, relatively speaking.

 

Now, if another manufacturer wants to provide the safety and medical cars, and the governing body refuses them, and only accepts Mercedes, then I think that would be unfair, as the real advantage Mercedes gets with that deal, is promotion. I don't think it gives them any pull in rules or officiating, I think it gives them exposure. If Mercedes was getting any preferential treatment from the sport, they should get a veto like Ferrari, and also an appearance fee. Their safety/medical car deal isn't what makes their F1 car so far, or what drives their notoriously superior in-season development. This is Helmut blowing a smoke screen over his own team's underperformance. He gets to do it instead of Horner, so that Horner doesn't have to get hounded about it on race weekends. It's like Niki was allowed to make the more controversial comments for Mercedes, while Toto focused on running the team. The key is to not get roped in by it.



#114 KevD

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 11:52

Sure, but is it a necessary extra expense? 

 

I think it is. Just look at what Marco says:

 

"Although I can not prove that Mercedes got data earlier than we did, I can not rule it out, but it does not boost confidence when you look at Liberty company car (it's a Mercedes), with a Stuttgart number in the Monaco paddock, with Pirelli tires on it"

 

With remarks like this he's in a position to do an awful lot of damage to the credibility of the governing body of the sport. I think that should have been avoided. 


Edited by KevD, 12 June 2019 - 11:52.


#115 Pimpwerx

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 11:54

I appreciate the effort but I don't think the examples you give match the kinds of ruling Marco is implying. It's obviously not about the stewarding but the way the rule changes are governed. While it may be true that no one objected the new tyre specs, Marco suggest that not everyone had access to the same information at the same time. There's no way for you or me to know this for a fact, but it doesn't help that Mercedes is also supplying company cars to F1 officials, does it? They may have been used longer than Mercedes is in F1 but why should still be the case now Merc is a competitor?

Without evidence, it's a pointless comment for him to make. Ferrari buys pink socks for all its new employees. There's no way for you or me to know, but it doesn't help that they're affiliated with an apparel company.

 

You see how silly a comment that is? It's based on absolutely nothing, but I can make it with as much conviction as Helmut.



#116 kosmos

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 11:54

Please Mr.Marko explain what happen with the tyres in 2013.



#117 Pimpwerx

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 11:56

I think it is. Just look at what Marco says:

 

"Although I can not prove that Mercedes got data earlier than we did, I can not rule it out, but it does not boost confidence when you look at Liberty company car (it's a Mercedes), with a Stuttgart number in the Monaco paddock, with Pirelli tires on it"

 

With remarks like this he's in a position to do an awful lot of damage to the credibility of the governing body of the sport. I think that should have been avoided. 

The governing body can just impose rules like they have in the NBA. You can't make comments that bring the sport into disrepute. If you do, you get a fine. Repeated offenses result in the fine escalating. It works to protect the governing body, and the officials, and it doesn't cost a thing. In fact, it generates extra revenue, that I believe is redistributed evenly to the players.



#118 SenorSjon

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 12:09

So let me get this straight, Red Bull chose not to build a car with loads of downforce because of the tyres?  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

 

Not so strange, in the past the Pirelli's would explode when they were placed on fast cars.

 

Please Mr.Marko explain what happen with the tyres in 2013.

 

Funny enough not requested by RB... There was also a secret tire test with Mercedes that year, who coincidentially won the 3 out of the next 5 races. https://www.motorspo...e-test/3219584/ Most of the article could have been written this year though, not much has changed on the political side. ;)



#119 Fatgadget

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 12:28

I never really warned to Red Bull, with that in mind I have always found them very self entitled and anything but a fun team, they more than most teams behave like petulant children.

 

:cool:

Indeed.

The public  spat with Renault  was cringe worthy .



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#120 Nonesuch

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 12:38

So let me get this straight, Red Bull chose not to build a car with loads of downforce because of the tyres?

 
The overall level of downforce kind of affects the forces put on the rubber.  These loads affect the temperature of the tyre.
 
The awesome Pirelli tyres being as sensitive as they are, that's an important consideration.

Red Bull, having suffered through this in 2011-2013 in particular, knows that issue quite well.

Edited by Nonesuch, 12 June 2019 - 12:39.


#121 Marklar

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 12:40

So let me get this straight, Red Bull chose not to build a car with loads of downforce because of the tyres? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Wasnt it a few weeks ago because they underestimated the Honda power or is my memory playing tricks with me? :D

Edited by Marklar, 12 June 2019 - 12:41.


#122 Nonesuch

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 12:45

Please Mr.Marko explain what happen with the tyres in 2013.

That's not entirely on Pirelli.

The teams were swapping the tyres around left to right, were running outside of specifications, and generally entirely unhelpful in providing data to Pirelli.

 

Granted, you might make the point that the tyres should be able to function under these circumstances (and I'd probably be inclined to agree), but the teams were clearly taking the piss in order to maximize their performance.

 

As Pirelli said at the time: "all the failures [in Silverstone] happened on cars with the rear tyres mounted on opposite sides of the car from the one intended."



#123 Fatgadget

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 12:53

My reaction should be read as: "I understand why Mercedes choose Michelin, and not Pirelli as their OE tyre."

 

I have Pilot Super Sport's under my own car. No way I'll ever buy a Pirelli.

This I'm sorry is nothing more than hysterical nonsense! :lol: No one cares what rubber their car is shod on when they make a purchasing decision.....Years ago I bought a Lotus Cortina that had Pirelli Cintauratours on it.  Handled pretty good on them I vaguely recall!

I also recall a Yamaha FS1E that I had came on Bridgestone tyres  ..everytime it rained, I always dropped it!..Does that mean all Bridgestone tyres are rubbish?


Edited by Fatgadget, 12 June 2019 - 12:57.


#124 kernel

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 12:58

Marko is off his rockers as he probably reckons there is a real probability that Verstappen may decide to wait until the very last minute before signing an extension post-2020, especially if there is a real chance of a seat opening up either at Ferrari or Mercedes.



#125 Nonesuch

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 13:00

Marko is off his rockers as he probably reckons there is a real probability that Verstappen may decide to wait until the very last minute before signing an extension post-2020, especially if there is a real chance of a seat opening up either at Ferrari or Mercedes.


Indeed, with both Hamilton and Vettel having contracts until the end of 2020 - it seems possible at least one of them will call it quits after 14 seasons in F1.

 

If Red Bull-Honda doesn't improve, Verstappen would be a fool not to jump on that if given even the slightest chance.



#126 Cornholio

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 13:04

Is it that simple? Perhaps you were not around when Bridgestone built tyres around the Ferraris and everyone else making do with what they were given!

 

Eventually though, "everyone else" ended up being Jordan and Minardi, because Ferrari's other rivals could, and did, to good effect, go with another tyre manufacturer.


Edited by Cornholio, 12 June 2019 - 13:06.


#127 JeePee

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 13:10

This I'm sorry is nothing more than hysterical nonsense! :lol: No one cares what rubber their car is shod on when they make a purchasing decision.....Years ago I bought a Lotus Cortina that had Pirelli Cintauratours on it.  Handled pretty good on them I vaguely recall!

I also recall a Yamaha FS1E that I had came on Bridgestone tyres  ..everytime it rained, I always dropped it!..Does that mean all Bridgestone tyres are rubbish?

It's not nonsense. Ford (and I believe BMW as well) requested Michelin to start production on the Super Sports again, because they liked them better than the new Pilot Sport 4s, for their performance cars (the Focus RS, BMW M3, M4 ect.). People that buy those type of cars definitely care what rubber there is on. And maybe more importantly: for all the reviewers that have to have a go in those sort of cars, and tell the world about how they handle.

 

I've said this before also, when the hypercar war started a few years back with the Porsche 918 vs. LaFerrari vs. Mclaren P1. Because of their Pirelli contracts the last two where on P Zero's. The Porsche was the heaviest, had the lowest amount of power and the least amount of aerodynamic gimmics, but it was shod on Michelin's... guess who was quickest.



#128 Jon83

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 13:13

Reality is that since 2014, Mercedes have done almost everything right through the different regulations. They've had the best overall package (chassis, engine, performance, drivers, pitwall and many more) and have been utterly dominant as a result.

 

I don't buy the conspiracy theory Marko peddles. It's just daft deflection.

 

And I'm certainly no fan of the Mercedes team.


Edited by Jon83, 12 June 2019 - 13:13.


#129 JonnyJ

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 13:14

Also the safety car is a Mercedes! https://www.youtube....h?v=_zrMykBnidM


Huge, if true.

#130 robefc

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 13:18

Indeed, with both Hamilton and Vettel having contracts until the end of 2020 - it seems possible at least one of them will call it quits after 14 seasons in F1.
 
If Red Bull-Honda doesn't improve, Verstappen would be a fool not to jump on that if given even the slightest chance.


Not sure he would need Lewis to retire to be welcome at Merc...and Vett might not be the one making the decision if MV told Ferrari he was up for it.

#131 Pimpwerx

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 13:20

It's not nonsense. Ford (and I believe BMW as well) requested Michelin to start production on the Super Sports again, because they liked them better than the new Pilot Sport 4s, for their performance cars (the Focus RS, BMW M3, M4 ect.). People that buy those type of cars definitely care what rubber there is on. And maybe more importantly: for all the reviewers that have to have a go in those sort of cars, and tell the world about how they handle.

 

I've said this before also, when the hypercar war started a few years back with the Porsche 918 vs. LaFerrari vs. Mclaren P1. Because of their Pirelli contracts the last two where on P Zero's. The Porsche was the heaviest, had the lowest amount of power and the least amount of aerodynamic gimmics, but it was shod on Michelin's... guess who was quickest.

Inconclusive test, as there's no control group. A proper test would be to try the different tires on the same car. Science 101.



#132 Fatgadget

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 14:20

Reality is that since 2014, Mercedes have done almost everything right through the different regulations. They've had the best overall package (chassis, engine, performance, drivers, pitwall and many more) and have been utterly dominant as a result.

 

I don't buy the conspiracy theory Marko peddles. It's just daft deflection.

 

And I'm certainly no fan of the Mercedes team.

Not sure who you are attempting to appease by that qualifying final statement..And why it should really be of any significance TBH.

 

Fact is; Mercedes have nailed how to run a modern F1 team in 2019. Much like McLaren during the 1980s and Williams during 1990s and Ferrari during the early 2000s and Renault during the mid 2000s and RedBull up till then.The end.


Edited by Fatgadget, 12 June 2019 - 14:50.


#133 THEWALL

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 14:23

Mercedes are leading car manufacturer, a racing team and an engine supplier to two other teams. Red Bull are a marketing operation for fizzy drinks. Mercedes sell 2.3 million new cars a year, which must make them one of Pirelli's best customers. Red Bull sell zero cars a year meaning they probably don't even have contact in the Pirelli account's department. You don't have to be a Marko to realize one has a bit more influence at Pirelli and the FIA than the other. No conspiracies are needed, it's just how life works.

Agreed, but is that how it should work? 



#134 Jon83

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 14:33

Not sure who you are attempting to appease by that qualifying final statement..And why it should really be of any significance TBH.

 

Fact is; Mercedes have nailed how to run a modern F1 team in 2019. The end.

 

Oh for goodness sake.

 

It is starting to feel like you can't say anything on here without someone having a go at you.



#135 beachdrifter

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 16:12

You need to look at Red Bull's situation: They went from a team last season with (one of) the best driver pairing(s), (one of) the best chassis coupled with the third-best engine to a team with one of the worst second drivers on the grid, a chassis that now even Max publicly criticizes, to the weakest engine (in terms of performance). They are a team that is clearly moving in the wrong direction, across the board. 4 wins, 2 poles last season, and they wanted to improve on that this season. 

 

And Marko is starting to feel the heat, as he is partially responsible for this, so he's lashing out at everything to deflect attention from the real problems. I can imagine Mateschitz isn't too happy about any of these developments, either. 


Edited by beachdrifter, 12 June 2019 - 16:18.


#136 BuddyHolly

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 16:14

Not sure he would need Lewis to retire to be welcome at Merc...and Vett might not be the one making the decision if MV told Ferrari he was up for it.

I'd love to see Max at Merc and I'm not even a Max fan, if we had two top drivers in the team battling for the wins it would make it far less boring even if Merc continued to be dominant, being at the front for year after year is one thing but it makes it far more boring when there's pretty much no interteam battle through the seasons.   I know Toto will never let it happen sadly but I for one would love to see Lewis and Max in the team and I really don't care which one would be WDC at the end, at least the racing would be entertaining and the eventual winner would have deserved the title rather than cruised to it in their sleep.


Edited by BuddyHolly, 12 June 2019 - 16:14.


#137 Fatgadget

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 16:28

Eventually though, "everyone else" ended up being Jordan and Minardi, because Ferrari's other rivals could, and did, to good effect, go with another tyre manufacturer.

And what eventually culminated  the Indianapolis 2006 fiasco!



#138 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 16:29

And what eventually culminated  the Indianapolis 2006 fiasco!

 

Which were 100% on Michelin.

 

:cool:



#139 Fatgadget

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 16:29

I'd love to see Max at Merc and I'm not even a Max fan, if we had two top drivers in the team battling for the wins it would make it far less boring even if Merc continued to be dominant, being at the front for year after year is one thing but it makes it far more boring when there's pretty much no interteam battle through the seasons.   I know Toto will never let it happen sadly but I for one would love to see Lewis and Max in the team and I really don't care which one would be WDC at the end, at least the racing would be entertaining and the eventual winner would have deserved the title rather than cruised to it in their sleep.

Okay. If you say so LOL!



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#140 Paco

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 16:38

How about he focus on fixing his chassis and pushing Honda to deliver on all that Australia HYPE of how great the engine was with those GPS supposed traces.  Of course they had zero chance of competiting his year.. of course it will be the same for a few years as Honda has yet to really deliver on any of their hype..worse this year they have Gasly to boot and a not up RB standard chassis.

 

Poor guy must be so sad all their decisions in mid last year failed miserably.. both in this years car design and switching easily 1 year to earlier to Honda.



#141 HammyHamiltonFan

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 16:51

next year's Toro Rosso will have tin foil livery = confirmed



#142 AustinF1

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 17:36

yeah yeah, we believe you  :stoned:

What a stupid take. You think I'm defending Vettel? I'm about the last guy on the planet who'd ever defend Vettel. And I'm not tifosi, either. It's all evident in my posting history.



#143 Hela

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 17:42

What a stupid take. You think I'm defending Vettel? I'm about the last guy on the planet who'd ever defend Vettel. And I'm not tifosi, either. It's all evident in my posting history.

 

Am not saying you're defending Vettel, am just saying you should have checked the wording and what the rules said (.e.g similar) to save yourself the backlash. No need to get animated, am on your side   :)



#144 Ivanhoe

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 17:46

Some people should realise that when something about Mercedes or Lewis is questioned, doesn’t neccessarily mean that it’s questioned because Mercedes or Lewis is involved. We’re not all named Marko, I’m not talking about him obviously.

Edited by Ivanhoe, 12 June 2019 - 17:49.


#145 MasterOfCoin

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 17:57

I'd love to see Max at Merc and I'm not even a Max fan, if we had two top drivers in the team battling for the wins it would make it far less boring even if Merc continued to be dominant, being at the front for year after year is one thing but it makes it far more boring when there's pretty much no interteam battle through the seasons.   I know Toto will never let it happen sadly but I for one would love to see Lewis and Max in the team and I really don't care which one would be WDC at the end, at least the racing would be entertaining and the eventual winner would have deserved the title rather than cruised to it in their sleep.

I've had my fill of interteammate battles, first guy to turn one usually wins those......i would prefer to see a stronger RBR and Ferrari battling with Merc than another teammate war....



#146 Ivanhoe

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 18:02

I've had my fill of interteammate battles, first guy to turn one usually wins those......i would prefer to see a stronger RBR and Ferrari battling with Merc than another teammate war....


Hamilton vs Rosberg was far more entertaining than Lewis vs Bottas for me.

#147 Eff1

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 18:20

Whether Mako is right/wrong, politics is part of the sport.

If Mercedes have aligned themselves in a way that has got them data earlier from Pirelli - then good for them. It’s up to the others to do a better job in the background.

#148 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 18:37

This is what Red Bull does to you :

 

 

(video of Austrian fascist politicians trying to sell out Austria to what they think are Russian oligarchs. Their defense was basically "we were high on Red Bull and vodka")



#149 robefc

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 18:41

I'd love to see Max at Merc and I'm not even a Max fan, if we had two top drivers in the team battling for the wins it would make it far less boring even if Merc continued to be dominant, being at the front for year after year is one thing but it makes it far more boring when there's pretty much no interteam battle through the seasons.   I know Toto will never let it happen sadly but I for one would love to see Lewis and Max in the team and I really don't care which one would be WDC at the end, at least the racing would be entertaining and the eventual winner would have deserved the title rather than cruised to it in their sleep.


If it was a choice between never getting Max or having the start of his Merc career overlapping with the end of Lewis’s I reckon they would choose the latter.

#150 pdac

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 19:20

It's very easy to just ridicule what Marco is saying. But in fact only a few are really addressing the point he's trying to make.

 

I really don't know when 'politics' become a conspiracy but what I don't understand is why FIA / Liberty are not making more of an effort in avoiding the appearance of a conflict of interests. What would be the reaction next year if the tyres were reverted to 2018 specs and all F1 officials would have switched to Astons?

 

We dismiss his comments because he is moaning about things that have been entrenched in F1 for decades and, more over, his team were very happy with them when others were making the same complaints in the past. He's not alone, though. Most of the faces in F1 are two-faced.