41 replies to this topic

[terry mcgrath]

This fantastic pic has turn up on Facebook page showing a couple standing on the bonnett of their external bonnet lock 1961 E type (Quite a valuable car these day) watching most likely a car race in the USA maybe Canada. The venue is quite hilly and green seems to exclude Laguna Seca.

In an effort to help identify the car it would be great to identify the venue.

Can anyone advise where this might be?

photo link to my "Jaguar Archive" face book page

https://www.facebook...?type=3

Terry

Autralia

[E1pix]

Based on the grass, hills, license plate, and "feel," I'm going to guess Mosport -- or maybe Bridgehampton.

[Bikr7549]

I don’t think its Bridgehampton. Way too much grass and rolling hills and trees.

[E1pix]

Wherever it is, standing on an E-type sure looks wrong today! (LOL)

[nicanary]

Mosport looks a good bet. Westwood as a long shot.

[E1pix]

We need our Canadarian friends to weigh in here. :-)

I can definitely say where it's not:
-- Road America
-- Watkins Glen
-- Laguna Seca
-- Mid-Ohio
-- Road Atlanta
-- Mars
-- et al

[2F-001]

Regarding the choice of viewing platform... one does hope it is actually their E-type and not someone else's...

[D28]

Mosport, going by the Molson Ex case, a white license possible Ont. Could be overlooking the stretch near corner 3.

[DCapps]

It is possible that it is Lime Rock, especially given that the photo is from about 1961/2/3.

 

The basic scene and the fencing look vaguely familiar from the time, but I can't place it other than perhaps Lime Rock at the moment.

 

Re: "One interesting item pointed out the car has the orange front indicators typical US car they would be white."

 

Don't let that fool you, more than a few of the Jags, etc., of the time kept the orange lenses at that time if the cars that I worked on at the garage were any indication.

[RJE]

Looks like Mosport to me.  The licence plate looks like Ontario and having a white background and black lettering would most likely make it 1960,62 or 64.

[Bikr7549]

Not Lime Rock Park - landscape is the right type but the layout does not match up to the track layout.

[PCC]

Mosport, going by the Molson Ex case, a white license possible Ont. Could be overlooking the stretch near corner 3.

The beer ID - brilliant observation, D28! - makes a non-Canadian location extremely unlikely.

[404KF2]

Could be Westwood for sure...BC plates at the time were this colour.  And Molson was sold here too.

[E1pix]

The beer ID - brilliant observation, D28! - makes a non-Canadian location extremely unlikely.

You clearly haven't been to Road America. ;-)

And I'm still trying to come to grips with standing on an E-Type...

Are we sure it's not Woodstock? ;-)


(Edit: Silly me, can't be, no VW buses)

Edited by E1pix, 24 June 2019 - 02:07.

[PCC]

You clearly haven't been to Road America. ;-)

Actually I have, but I don't recall seeing any cases of Canadian beer there. That said, I was eight years old, so it wasn't a major preoccupation for me.

[PCC]

The best person to have a crack at answering this might be Lionel Birnbom, who photographed a lot of N. American venues in the '50s '60s & '70s. He posts here from time to time, but if he doesn't chime in I'll drop him a line.

[D28]

The beer ID - brilliant observation, D28! - makes a non-Canadian location extremely unlikely.

Right Ex was synonymous with road racing particularly in Ont. Note the stubby on the Jag's top, also an indicator of the era. Hope he has a cooler in the trunk.  Looks like a cool day probably fall but still he would need some ice. Something tells me this might be his first motor race, having to resort to standing on the Jag. Ouch! Imagine what that car is worth today, if still in one piece.

[Tim Murray]

The best person to have a crack at answering this might be Lionel Birnbom, who photographed a lot of N. American venues in the '50s '60s & '70s. He posts here from time to time, but if he doesn't chime in I'll drop him a line.

Lionel has already chipped in on the Facebook page. He suggests Mosport, but he’s not certain.

[E1pix]

Actually I have, but I don't recall seeing any cases of Canadian beer there. That said, I was eight years old, so it wasn't a major preoccupation for me.

Haha, true that, I wasn't being brand-specific. ;-)

[raceannouncer2003]

Definitely not Westwood.  Quite unusual and distinctive terrain the cars are parked on, but I don't recognize it.

 

Vince H.

[Michael Ferner]

Must be Mosport. The cars parked on the grassy slopes, and the grove in the background - I feel sure I have seen this exact spot in other photographs!

[Michael Ferner]

Not unlike this: https://www.racingsp...5-06-05-hf4.jpg

... or that: https://www.racingsp...5-06-05-hf2.jpg

[FLB]

May I suggest Mont-Tremblant? The track was opened for activity in 1964. The license plate would fit with a 1963 Quebec plate.

[D28]

May I suggest Mont-Tremblant? The track was opened for activity in 1964. The license plate would fit with a 1963 Quebec plate.

A possibility except the  scenery doesn't fit as well and shows more grass and  sand rather than rock. Quebecers visited Mosport in numbers of course and visa versa for  Ontarians. at Tremblant.. The consensus of most here think it is Mosport and I concur.

[Jim Thurman]

 The venue is quite hilly and green seems to exclude Laguna Seca.

 

I'd like to know more about the rationalizing that took place to eliminate Laguna Seca. Because it isn't green? While the area in and around Laguna Seca is naturally brown much of the year, the USRRC races used to be held in Spring (like the 1968 race run in a downpour). Spring is when the hillsides would be green or transitioning, and when grasses and weeds would be that high. While I'm no botanist, the grasses look more like western grasses. Plus, for anyone who hasn't noticed, Laguna Seca has plenty of green in the trees. There are plenty of live oaks scattered around the premises, including a good thicket of them on a ridge...much like how they are on a ridge in this shot 

 

If Laguna Seca can't be that green (which is based on decided lack of knowledge), can Mosport be that brown?   That is an awfully steep hill rising up out of frame to the upper left. Is Mosport that hilly?  EDIT: I know how hilly Mosport is, this is rhetorical as in "think about it" 

Edited by Jim Thurman, 25 June 2019 - 01:31.

[PCC]

I'd like to know more about the rationalizing that took place to eliminate Laguna Seca.

How common was Molson Export Ale in California in the early '60s?

[D28]

This photo from same time of year is close to where the other photo was shot, Fittipaldi heads into turn 3. Note the similar short fencing. In the background is the same hill overlooking turn 2. From 72 Canadian Grand Prix. 

Image from Daily Mail

Edited by D28, 25 June 2019 - 01:19.

[Jim Thurman]

How common was Molson Export Ale in California in the early '60s?

 

I wouldn't know, but I don't imagine it was unheard of, particularly in San Francisco or Los Angeles. If it's due to the B.C. plates, why couldn't British Columbian race fans drive down to Laguna Seca, perhaps taking some of their favorite beverage along with them?    Some B.C. racers were known to trek down to Laguna Seca and Riverside, so I would think it was possible for fans as well 

 

For the record, before anyone blows a gasket, I'm not saying it isn't Mosport or that it is Laguna Seca, I'm pointing out the specious reasoning (or lack of any knowledgeable reasoning) in summarily dismissing Laguna Seca "because it is green." 

Edited by Jim Thurman, 25 June 2019 - 01:32.

[PCC]

I wouldn't know, but I don't imagine it was unheard of, particularly in San Francisco or Los Angeles. If it's due to the B.C. plates, why couldn't British Columbian race fans drive down to Laguna Seca, perhaps taking some of their favorite beverage along with them?    Some B.C. racers were known to trek down to Laguna Seca and Riverside, so I would think it was possible for fans as well 

 

For the record, before anyone blows a gasket, I'm not saying it isn't Mosport or that it is Laguna Seca, I'm pointing out the specious reasoning (or lack of any knowledgeable reasoning) in summarily dismissing Laguna Seca "because it is green." 

Well, anything's possible, but Occam's razor suggests that if there's Molson's, it's Canadian - even if it's Ex (Canadians will get the pun).

 

And yes, Mosport is hilly. And even up here, grass turns brown if it doesn't rain for a while.

[DCapps]

Not Lime Rock Park-landscape is the right type but the layout does not match up to the track layout.

 

You are thinking the current configuration and surroundings, but it was a bit different when I attended my first event there about 1964. That said, it certainly does look like Mosport in many ways, circa 1965, my first visit to the track.

[Bikr7549]

My first visit to LRP was 1974, so it was probably reasonably similar, but the question is where would this location be? It just doesn’t seem to fit places to spectate there. I may be wrong but it doesnt seem to match. The only place I can see is if the parked cars in the background are in the outfield area on the hill and the Jag spectators are in the infield looking east, near the entrance to big bend but to me that is a stretch.

Edited by Bikr7549, 25 June 2019 - 03:39.

[R.W. Mackenzie]

Absolutely Mosport, outfield side of track between turns 2 and 3. I misspent most of my youth and early adulthood standing on the hill in the background watching racers of varying degrees of talent negotiate turn 2 and the stretch into turn 3. The other giveaway is the shitty weather!

[Jim Thurman]

 

And yes, Mosport is hilly. And even up here, grass turns brown if it doesn't rain for a while.

 

I'm well aware of the concept of grass turning brown if it doesn't rain for a while, apparently far more aware than those who think Laguna Seca is never green or that there are trees there 

 

I'm also quite well aware of Mosport being hilly too.

[E1pix]

Absolutely Mosport, outfield side of track between turns 2 and 3. I misspent most of my youth and early adulthood standing on the hill in the background watching racers of varying degrees of talent negotiate turn 2 and the stretch into turn 3. The other giveaway is the shitty weather!

SOLD!!!

Well done. If any shot of any angle of Road America was in question, I'd know it immediately. Sounds like this for you.

[terry mcgrath]

thanks for all the input from various people we will go with Mosport so I will try to get all the deliveries for early E types to Canada and see if we can match somthing up

terry

[Rupertlt1]

I thought of the car of Max Beimler:

 

https://www.racingsp...eimler-CDN.html

 

This car raced in the Hockley Valley Hill Climb, Sat 5 May 1962. The car is a drophead, the colour looks correct, but has wing mirrors fitted, also rollbar, not certain ref indicators.

Beimler known to be a colourful character.

#21 Eric Hardy, Jaguar XKE, Rattlesnake Point Hill Climb, Sat 26 May 1962.

Klaus Bartels 5th in this event "46.88 seconds in an XK-E Jaguar."

(The car of John Bowles from 1964 was a coupe.)

 

RGDS RLT 

Edited by Rupertlt1, 23 July 2019 - 15:23.

[terry mcgrath]

thanks love to see a pic of these cars 

regards terry

tmcgrath@bigpond.com

[Rupertlt1]

See Norm Namerow at Mont Gabriel Hill Climb - 2 pics - 29 September 1962:

 

http://www.autocours...b/Pages/21.html

 

https://www.racingsp...amerow-CDN.html

 

P.S. Namerow was the owner of Mosport, briefly, prior to his premature demise.

 

See also: https://forums.autos...iel-hill-climb/

 

RGDS RLT

Edited by Rupertlt1, 24 July 2019 - 16:51.

[D28]

See Norm Namerow at Mont Gabriel Hill Climb - 2 pics - 29 September 1962:

 

http://www.autocours...b/Pages/21.html

 

P.S. Namerow was the owner of Mosport, briefly, prior to his premature demise.

 

RGDS RLT

The Facebook Jag has the antenna on the right hand side, Namerow's is on the left.  Also he has a LH mirror not obvious on the original pic. And I don't believe Namerow would countenance folks standing on his Jag.

Edited by D28, 24 July 2019 - 16:55.

[Rupertlt1]

D28, I am not saying this is the car in the Facebook photograph.

If I am not mistaken Terry McGrath is interested in all Jaguars - in this case all early E-Types in North America.

If nothing else this identifies another car and eliminates it from this enquiry.

 

See: http://www.xkedata.c...ail/?car=875004

 

RGDS RLT

[D28]

Fair enough, I misunderstood. Carry on, probably pretty exhaustive search.

[Rupertlt1]

Eric Hardy, 45, Jaguar E-type, died following an accident at Mosport, 15 June 1963.

 

https://www.racingsp...-Hardy-CDN.html

 

https://www.artmajeu...uar-type-e-1962

 

RGDS RLT

Edited by Rupertlt1, 27 July 2019 - 04:03.