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Hamilton criticizes F1 rulemaking, offers to work with FIA to fix it all


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#101 Nonesuch

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Posted 26 June 2019 - 20:22

What's the GPDA's role in all of this? I'd have thought they would have been the ones pushing the drivers point of view forward not Hamilton (that's not to say that Hamilton voicing his opinions about it is a bad thing, he naturally brings more publicity and attention to a drivers view of the current set-up)

 

Yes, they are. Alexander Wurz made it a point to emphasise this last year, when he could finally convince the last hold-outs to join the GPDA.

 

He said that it took a long time to get the drivers to focus on the bigger picture, because they'd usually spent the brief time they were together needling each other and moaning about various moves they were convinced should have been penalized.

 

Wurz furthermore said the GPDA has 'weekly contact' with the major players in the series to make sure they understand the drivers' point of view and their concerns, although he was quick to add that he understood the powers that be have other factors to consider as well.



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#102 Counterbalance

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Posted 26 June 2019 - 20:25

Because it adds to my understanding of the race. Although I agree with the view that data/ telemetry could be cut back. Maybe Atrieu had the best idea- standard steering wheels with limited options of what can be done with their controls.

 

Agreed. When the FIA banned most of the radio communication a few seasons back, it took away quite a bit of the drama. I'd go with your idea with standardised steering wheels, but then every team have different requirements, so it's a bit of a difficult one to enforce. The principal behind the idea is good though.



#103 Celloman

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Posted 26 June 2019 - 21:01

Of course, I accept that radio communications aren't the sole reason why the racing in F1 is so dire currently. But I do genuinely believe the over-reliance on data is a contributing factor, and that if teams weren't able to manage races to the ridiculous degree they currently do, then racing would undoubtedly improve. I mean, it was summed up for me when Vettel was told that he was on "Plan F" at the weekend. Why on earth could they possibly need six (or however many more they had) plans to get through one race? Ludicrous.

I'm surprised the subject of banning radio communication is brought back again less than three years after the last "trial" to have most of it banned, which was yet another useless exercise by FIA to have things spiced up and only served to add confusion. The best example was perhaps Hamilton's Baku 2016 race where he lost power most of the race because he couldn't figure out which position out of 42 possible ones he was supposed to turn a knob and the team wasn't allowed to tell him.

 

Besides, the inbuilt monitor in the steering wheel is now so complex that drivers can get most information from there, it will only take them more time to do so. The only practical effect this change will have is that us spectators will no longer be hearing team radios on the broadcast and drivers have to fiddle more with their onboard steering wheel display and buttons instead.



#104 djparky

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Posted 26 June 2019 - 21:07

Not a Hamilton fan, but appreciate his willingness to engage in this

But in terms of the rules F1 should follow Indy Car's lead- get input but do not allow teams or manufacturers any involvement in the rule making process.

As for the tracks, most of them have been neutered to the point where they all look sort of the same with endless car park sized run offs at anything remotely resembling a corner.

#105 Fastcake

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Posted 26 June 2019 - 21:20

If they limit (live) telemetry team radios are absolutely no issue. It would be then limited to safety, strategy and emotional stuff, and the latter really shouldnt be hidden.

 

As well as limiting live telemetry you'd need to vastly reduce the number of options available to the drivers in-car. Without the vast amount of data from every part of car the team would be limited in the way they currently tell the drivers how to drive the car, but it's linked to the fact the cars have become so complex the drivers almost need the teams to assist them. I think that would solve the perceived problem that drivers are not running their own races.

 

My opinion on radios in F1 has gone back and forth over the years, but I agree now there is some value in giving the audience a window into the drivers and how they race. Fix the handholding over the radio, and we're left with something positive.



#106 R Soul

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Posted 26 June 2019 - 21:27

I think the problem with the radio info limit was that the underlying technology was still there - the detailed real-time telemetry, the complicated steering wheels etc. A ban on what people are allowed to say is ridiculous. If we don't want drivers being told to switch to engine mode B or to access Option 2 of menu 3 etc, I think the best approach is to simplify the electronics. And if anyone is thinking of saying "F1 should be high-tech", remember that F1 doesn't have ABS, and can only have a very limited type of power unit when better ones may be possible.



#107 JHSingo

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Posted 26 June 2019 - 22:13

I'm surprised the subject of banning radio communication is brought back again less than three years after the last "trial" to have most of it banned, which was yet another useless exercise by FIA to have things spiced up and only served to add confusion. The best example was perhaps Hamilton's Baku 2016 race where he lost power most of the race because he couldn't figure out which position out of 42 possible ones he was supposed to turn a knob and the team wasn't allowed to tell him.

 

I'm not sure the comparisons to 2016 are really relevant in what I'm arguing. I'm not talking about a clamp down on certain phrases or instructions, as was half-heartedly tried that year, I'm talking about a total ban on pit-to-car radios, as in the team can't communicate with their driver once the race begins. I'd allow messages informing on impending disaster to be displayed on the wheel, such as "your engine is about to blow up", or "you've got a drive through penalty", but try to keep it as simple as possible. Teams could still have a plan before the race, but then it would put the onus on the driver to stick with it or do something else. A button to alert your team that you intended to pit next lap would prevent total chaos in the pit lane, at least.

 

I still remember the final race of the 2017 MotoGP season, where Ducati were sending messages to Lorenzo's dashboard (and putting them on the pit board), instructing him to allow Dovizioso through. He ignored them - it showed that the riders were still in control, which is how it should be. Something like that wouldn't happen in F1 these days, because the poor driver would have some dullard droning on in his ear every lap until he'd complied with the instruction.

 

What I'm proposing isn't realistic, and will likely never happen, but...it's nice to dream, sometimes.  ;)


Edited by JHSingo, 26 June 2019 - 22:15.


#108 chrisj

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Posted 27 June 2019 - 00:09

I love the idea of banning radio communication during the race. Once the lights go out, it should be up to the driver to manage their own race. None of the radio communications add any enjoyment for me, it's just drivers whining.



#109 PlayboyRacer

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Posted 27 June 2019 - 00:30

That's odd. I certainly doubt everybody attended. Back in 2014 there was this big debate where they paved over the Parabolica runoff. The FIA claimed it was requested by the drivers but many chimed in with a negative opinion about it. Those included Hamilton, Magnussen, Bottas, Alonso, Perez and Kvyat from whose comments I can find. Chandhok and d'Ambrosio weren't F1 drivers at that point any more but questioned it too.

However, Maldonado, Grosjean, Rosberg, Button and Massa thought positively of the paving of the runoff.

Hillarious really. Actually predictable... if you'd asked me to break down drivers into groups, one the actual hard racers who love the danger and thrill and the other group... it would be almost bang on.

Not sure who the ex F1 driver SophieB refers to but I just say listen to Jacques Villeneuve on these sorts of topics. He's been complaining that F1 was starting to destroy itself since he first tested the grooved tyres back mid 1997. Nobody listened.

And yet here we are.

#110 pingu666

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Posted 27 June 2019 - 01:45

id do a study on cars that raced well, and cars that raced badly, so you can figure out what *should* make good racing cars



#111 shure

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Posted 27 June 2019 - 06:45

I'm surprised the subject of banning radio communication is brought back again less than three years after the last "trial" to have most of it banned, which was yet another useless exercise by FIA to have things spiced up and only served to add confusion. The best example was perhaps Hamilton's Baku 2016 race where he lost power most of the race because he couldn't figure out which position out of 42 possible ones he was supposed to turn a knob and the team wasn't allowed to tell him.

 

Besides, the inbuilt monitor in the steering wheel is now so complex that drivers can get most information from there, it will only take them more time to do so. The only practical effect this change will have is that us spectators will no longer be hearing team radios on the broadcast and drivers have to fiddle more with their onboard steering wheel display and buttons instead.

That's because as usual the FIA made a half-arsed attempt at tackling the problem and didn't think it through.  These cars are designed to run with a support team so communication is not a luxury but a necessity.  The FIA has a history of applying sticking plasters to problems (DRS, comedy tyres etc) without actually addressing the root cause, which in this case is the overall complexity of the cars.  Remove the need for communication and then there would be no issue with banning communication either.  The cars should be made self-sufficient and the options available to the drivers more limited and then they would be able to work out what to do on their own.  But that's more of a long-term solution and the FIA doesn't have a history of thinking long-term



#112 shure

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Posted 27 June 2019 - 06:47

I'm not sure the comparisons to 2016 are really relevant in what I'm arguing. I'm not talking about a clamp down on certain phrases or instructions, as was half-heartedly tried that year, I'm talking about a total ban on pit-to-car radios, as in the team can't communicate with their driver once the race begins. I'd allow messages informing on impending disaster to be displayed on the wheel, such as "your engine is about to blow up", or "you've got a drive through penalty", but try to keep it as simple as possible. Teams could still have a plan before the race, but then it would put the onus on the driver to stick with it or do something else. A button to alert your team that you intended to pit next lap would prevent total chaos in the pit lane, at least.

 

I still remember the final race of the 2017 MotoGP season, where Ducati were sending messages to Lorenzo's dashboard (and putting them on the pit board), instructing him to allow Dovizioso through. He ignored them - it showed that the riders were still in control, which is how it should be. Something like that wouldn't happen in F1 these days, because the poor driver would have some dullard droning on in his ear every lap until he'd complied with the instruction.

 

What I'm proposing isn't realistic, and will likely never happen, but...it's nice to dream, sometimes.  ;)

It's not realistic with the current cars, but there's no reason why it shouldn't be realistic for the next set of regs.  They've banned driver aids before, they should make it so they aren't necessary in the future



#113 shure

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Posted 27 June 2019 - 06:48

I think the problem with the radio info limit was that the underlying technology was still there - the detailed real-time telemetry, the complicated steering wheels etc. A ban on what people are allowed to say is ridiculous. If we don't want drivers being told to switch to engine mode B or to access Option 2 of menu 3 etc, I think the best approach is to simplify the electronics. And if anyone is thinking of saying "F1 should be high-tech", remember that F1 doesn't have ABS, and can only have a very limited type of power unit when better ones may be possible.

Exactly this :clap:



#114 statman

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Posted 27 June 2019 - 10:36

Bernie:

 

"Firstly, I wouldn't be talking to the teams. It's like having a committee and you don't need that when making decisions like this,"

 

"I would be saying: We're going to have two championships. They're both world championships; one is the Constructors' World Championship and the other is the Teams' World Championship. The Drivers' World Championship would not be affected in any way,"

 

"The Constructors' Championship is for the teams that manufacture the engine and the chassis; teams such as Ferrari and Mercedes.

 

"For the Teams' Championship, I'd build a car -- like a very sophisticated F2 car. If Honda decided they weren't going to be in F1 -- or if Renault decided not to be a constructor -- I'd do a good deal for one of them to supply everyone. These would be engines similar to those we have today. But one engine has to last a full season, with one spare engine only to be used if the original one has a failure."

 

"So if you want to start a team, here's your chance. I'd give you a complete car and a spare engine. And I'd give you $30 million a year. That way we can forget all this cost cap nonsense. You've got to run the team as best you can. You've got $30m to get you going, so you need to go out and find some sponsors."

 

Ecclestone goes on to report he'd bring back refuelling for those cars in the teams' championship and would add weight to the constructors' championship cars should they be much faster. His aim is to award the teams who can spend lots of money by becoming world champions, but those in the teams' world championship would also be able to win something. 

https://www.gpblog.c...-formula-1.html


Edited by statman, 27 June 2019 - 10:36.


#115 P123

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Posted 27 June 2019 - 10:49

Well ain't we all fortunate Bernie now has no input. That just entrenches the divide.

#116 Sterzo

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Posted 27 June 2019 - 12:25

The FIA should consult the teams, the drivers, the race organisers, and Liberty the promoters. They should also take some note of journalists' comments and fan surveys.

 

None of the above should have any power in making decisions. The FIA and only the FIA should make those decisions.

 

Todt, Carey et al are still struggling with the fine mess left to them by Ecclestone and Mosley, but they really need to sort it. There's a good article on the subject by Jonathon Noble, on the Autosport website: https://www.autospor...f1-to-its-knees



#117 PedroDiCasttro

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Posted 27 June 2019 - 13:12

Let a team consisting of current and ex-f1 drivers decide the future of F1.

 

Letting a bunch of bureaucrats decide the rules of the sport haven't given us great racing for decades now.



#118 Kalmake

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Posted 27 June 2019 - 13:19

Well ain't we all fortunate Bernie now has no input. That just entrenches the divide.

It's more fun to hear Bernie/Max **** ideas when there is no chance of them being implemented.



#119 BuddyHolly

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Posted 27 June 2019 - 13:40

I love the idea of banning radio communication during the race. Once the lights go out, it should be up to the driver to manage their own race. None of the radio communications add any enjoyment for me, it's just drivers whining.

Agreed but then I'm sick of tired of Lewis/Seb/etc moaning on the radio about silly things and problems be they real or in some cases imagined.



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#120 Rodaknee

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Posted 27 June 2019 - 14:27

 

It's more fun to hear Bernie/Max **** ideas when there is no chance of them being implemented.

 

Then sprinkle over it.



#121 tormave

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Posted 27 June 2019 - 14:28

If Hamilton wants to help make F1 more entertaining that's bloody brilliant! He's actually the best positioned driver to do something about how predictable the races have become. He can simply make sure to qualify out of the top 6 and finish the race no higher than 2nd. That will immediately make the racing much more competitive at the sharp end of the field.



#122 Rodaknee

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Posted 27 June 2019 - 14:30

 

Agreed but then I'm sick of tired of Lewis/Seb/etc moaning on the radio about silly things and problems be they real or in some cases imagined.

 

Every driver moans before, during and after the races.



#123 pitlanepalpatine

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Posted 27 June 2019 - 18:25

https://www.autospor...f1-boss-comment

 

So Hamilton sees Toto Wolf as the only replacement for the FIA presidency. Considering that we have some people claiming we need more of a dictator that must be a right old kick in the nuts for old Ron Dennis.



#124 shure

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Posted 27 June 2019 - 19:15

https://www.autospor...f1-boss-comment

 

So Hamilton sees Toto Wolf as the only replacement for the FIA presidency. Considering that we have some people claiming we need more of a dictator that must be a right old kick in the nuts for old Ron Dennis.

Driver endorses own TP shocker



#125 SophieB

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Posted 27 June 2019 - 19:16

Agreed but then I'm sick of tired of Lewis/Seb/etc moaning on the radio about silly things and problems be they real or in some cases imagined.

 

I thought you liked the drivers being their real, flawed selves.



#126 Paco

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Posted 27 June 2019 - 21:00

https://www.autospor...f1-boss-comment

 

So Hamilton sees Toto Wolf as the only replacement for the FIA presidency. Considering that we have some people claiming we need more of a dictator that must be a right old kick in the nuts for old Ron Dennis.

 

 

Driver endorses own TP shocker

 

I don't think he's necessarily wrong.. Of everyone in F1 from a management perspective.. he's definitely a gem in a pool of whiny senile men (Bernie, Horner, Marko, Anyone of recent Ferrari history, Steiner, Cyril Mr. clueless..

 

I would have gone for Niki myself as Executive Sporting Director F1 but alais that time has passed.  Perhaps a Prost, Head or even a MikaH could do better then set of clowns since Toto should remain at the helm of this dynasty.. 

 

I'd like to see Jean Todt out soon.. was hoping for more from him and Ross Brawn even seems off these days since he joined Liberty.


Edited by Paco, 27 June 2019 - 21:05.


#127 Atreiu

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Posted 27 June 2019 - 21:03

Shut up Bernie.



#128 jstrains

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Posted 28 June 2019 - 07:50

So according to Bild, Hamilton would not welcome change in tyre to 2018 spec... I thought he wanted the show to be better? :confused:



#129 shure

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Posted 28 June 2019 - 07:57

I don't think he's necessarily wrong.. Of everyone in F1 from a management perspective.. he's definitely a gem in a pool of whiny senile men (Bernie, Horner, Marko, Anyone of recent Ferrari history, Steiner, Cyril Mr. clueless..

 

I would have gone for Niki myself as Executive Sporting Director F1 but alais that time has passed.  Perhaps a Prost, Head or even a MikaH could do better then set of clowns since Toto should remain at the helm of this dynasty.. 

 

I'd like to see Jean Todt out soon.. was hoping for more from him and Ross Brawn even seems off these days since he joined Liberty.

No I'm not saying he's wrong necessarily and in fact I'd agree with him that the preference would be not to have anyone from the teams running it as they may carry some bias.  Just pointing out that you can't read too much from a driver endorsing their own TP



#130 P123

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Posted 28 June 2019 - 08:05

So according to Bild, Hamilton would not welcome change in tyre to 2018 spec... I thought he wanted the show to be better? :confused:


How does that make the 'show' better?

#131 kernel

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Posted 28 June 2019 - 08:06

So according to Bild, Hamilton would not welcome change in tyre to 2018 spec... I thought he wanted the show to be better? :confused:

 

It doesn't make the show better, though. Hulkenberg and Hamilton mentioned yesterday that the scraps they had in Canada (w/ VET) and France (w/ RAI) would not have been possible on last year's tyres due to overheating. 



#132 jstrains

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Posted 28 June 2019 - 08:18

Other teams are complaining, that Mercedes domination is due to 2019 tyre, they cannot bring to work... the teams are meeting due to this with Isola in Spielberg.



#133 kernel

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Posted 28 June 2019 - 08:21

Other teams are complaining, that Mercedes domination is due to 2019 tyre, they cannot bring to work... the teams are meeting due to this with Isola in Spielberg.

 

By other teams... you mean predominantly Red Bull (with a side of Ferrari)  :cat:



#134 P123

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Posted 28 June 2019 - 08:24

Other teams are complaining, that Mercedes domination is due to 2019 tyre, they cannot bring to work... the teams are meeting due to this with Isola in Spielberg.


Yeah, and good luck to them, but the first driver I heard mention about a narrower operating window was... err Hamilton, who drives a Merc. I don't see it as a silver bullet. They won plenty on these tyres last season. The only time Ferrari have noticeably struggled was in Baku, but then Merc seemed to struggle before. It's an excuse. I'd be more than happy if the did change the tyres, but the team it is most likely to help is Haas, and most likely to hinder is McLaren. And ironically Toro Rosso too, who have made one if the biggest leaps in performance from this season to last. But there is a whole topic dedicated to tyres, with some ill-informed paranoia that only Merc never has any trouble with them.

#135 jstrains

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Posted 28 June 2019 - 08:31

Thanks for explaining.

 

EDIT: the vote ended 5:5 so no change


Edited by jstrains, 28 June 2019 - 08:32.


#136 FirstnameLastname

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Posted 28 June 2019 - 08:35

Lewis for PM!!

#137 Nonesuch

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Posted 28 June 2019 - 09:21

https://www.autospor...f1-boss-comment

 

So Hamilton sees Toto Wolf as the only replacement for the FIA presidency.

 

Well, he explicitly says "I don't know anybody else", which would be true. He has no business being up to speed with that subject, so he defaults to his boss. That he knows. Not a huge shocker. He goes on to be a bit more about "people like Toto for example", but that's about it.

 

Hamilton, and more problematic Autosport, conflate FIA president with F1 boss, which is not Todt's job. Peter Bayer is the secretary general for motor sport. Todt is president of the whole organisation, which includes all the national motoring organisations, the political handshaking, the UN visits, the tourism, the whole thing.



#138 Peat

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Posted 28 June 2019 - 10:13

The latest Autosport podcast covers this in some detail. 

 

Fair play to Lewis, if anyone has a platform to apply leverage, it's him.  :up: