29 replies to this topic

[Richard Jenkins]

Does anyone have the results, or at least the winner of this event at all, held at Riverside before the main event there?

 

Amongst people there were Ronnie Bucknum, Pete Halsmer, Phil Caliva, Parnelli Jones, Sam Hanks, Danny Eames, Phil Hill and - this is the reason I'm so interested - Richie Ginther.

 

I've struggled to find out who won. According to his bio, Mike Follmer finished 5th, but he says 1983; so I don't know if he came 5th in 1983 or he got the year wrong as he was also there in 1982.

 

Any help gratefully appreciated

[Jack-the-Lad]

Very interesting. I didn't even realize such an event existed. Were they driving some sort of modified street Toyotas?

Did you mean "George" Follmer?

Someone with old copies of Autoweek or On Track might be able to help. Or perhaps the archivist at the L.A. Times.

[Vitesse2]

There's what appears to be a relevant article in the LA Times, Friday April 16th 1982, p34. I don't have a current newspapers.com sub so can't check further - but it certainly mentions both Ginther and Hanks!

[Richard Jenkins]

Hi, there's two articles in the Los Angeles Times previewing the race. with a number of other drivers mentioned that I've not mentioned above (Mike Chandler, Rodger Ward, Roger Penske Jr, John Paul Jr and so on). I've got a newspapers.com (or have for now) so I've got one article for the 16th and one for the 20th.

 

Jack,I do mean Mike Follmer, not George. http://greenhulk.net...ad.php?t=104545

 

The race was ten laps, with everyone in identical Toyota Celica GT Liftback's. The idea was to see if veterans or rookies would be better in identical cars.. and that's the bit I'm trying to crack - who won; was it a veteran or a rookie?

[DCapps]

There does not appear to be any mention of the event in On Track.

[Jim Thurman]

I searched the Los Angeles Times archive, and while Ginther is mentioned in the first pre-race article, he is not listed in the lineup . I could not find full results, but a small item mentioned John Paul Jr. winning over Michael Chandler with Parnelli Jones finishing third. That was all the finishing order. If you'd like, I could send you .pdf files.

[heidegger75]

I found the results in the April 26 issue of the Los Angeles Times, in the auto racing section of "This Day In Sports." Page 40 if using newspapers.com; page 12 of section III in a physical copy.

 

It was a 10=lap race on a 2.54 mile course, with all drivers using identically prepared Toyota Celicas. The finishing order:

 

1. John Paul Jr,

2. Michael Chandler

3. Parnelli Jones

4. Terry Herman

5. Jack Brabham

6. Roger Penske Jr.

7. Mark Wolocatiuk

8. Roger (sic) Ward

9. Craig Breedlove Jr.

10. Ronnie Bucknum

11. Mickey Thompson

12. Mike Follmer

13. Phil Caliva

14. Sam Hanks

15. Johnnie Parsons Sr.

 

Winning speed: 80.56 mph

 

 

I did not find any information about a similar event in 1983.

[Jim Thurman]

Yep, it finally turned up, but only via page view. Could not get it in any search result, no matter what I tried last night and this morning. Weird.

[Richard Jenkins]

Thanks all.

 

My guess before I asked was that Ginther was an attendee but not a driver and the above at least proves he didn't drive.

[E1pix]

I believe this was known as the Toyota Celebrity Challenge, or Toyota Celebrity Pro-Am.

I also believe this race has been a regular part of the Long Beach F1 and IndyCar weekends from the start -- and ever since (last F1 race was in '83).

Edit: Wiki -- https://en.m.wikiped.../Celebrity_Race

Edited by E1pix, 01 July 2019 - 22:50.

[Jack-the-Lad]

Richard,
Here's a related item. On August 2, 1970, Ontario Motor Speedway was dedicated. Part of the weekend was a pro-celebrity race featuring Porsche 914/6s. While Ginther did not participate as a driver my understanding is that his race shop did the preparation of the cars. There is a brief thread on the subject somewhere in this forum, and a bit of information on the Internet.

Jack.

[Michael Ferner]

Yep, it finally turned up, but only via page view. Could not get it in any search result, no matter what I tried last night and this morning. Weird.

Newspaper search is always tricky. Typos, bad microfilm images, erroneous OCR - you have to be "inventive"! And sometimes, the only thing that really helps is going page by page

[Jim Thurman]

Newspaper search is always tricky. Typos, bad microfilm images, erroneous OCR - you have to be "inventive"! And sometimes, the only thing that really helps is going page by page

 

Oh, I know that all too well and have resorted to that many a time, but I've rarely had an issue with the Times archive (well, aside from typos). Strangely, I had spent a tremendous amount of time working on something else using the archives over the weekend and ran into a bit of that. Sheer fatigue is what led me to do a quick cursory check with various search terms before heading off to bed, though nothing turned up via those.

[ensign14]

God.  Phil Caliva sucked in those as well.

[DCapps]

God.  Phil Caliva sucked in those as well.

 

I had the same thought....

[Richard Jenkins]

God.  Phil Caliva sucked in those as well.

 

He was also 37 when he raced in this event. Some "rookie". He was only nine years younger than Bucknum and fifteen years older than Paul Jr.

 

That said, on that basis of being a veteran rookie, or "Vookie", he won his class 

[Jack-the-Lad]

Richard,
Here's a related item. On August 2, 1970, Ontario Motor Speedway was dedicated. Part of the weekend was a pro-celebrity race featuring Porsche 914/6s. While Ginther did not participate as a driver my understanding is that his race shop did the preparation of the cars. There is a brief thread on the subject somewhere in this forum, and a bit of information on the Internet.
Jack.

Richard,

Follow-on to this, there is a YouTube video of the event (mostly featuring the celebrities..no pictures of RG). I have trouble posting links but if you search for Ontario Motor Speedway Porsche 914/6 it should be easy to find. Also, Kurt Zimmerman might have some information if he worked in RG's race shop at the time.

Cheers!

[Richard Jenkins]

Thanks Jack, I'll add it in somewhere.

[E1pix]

I tried hard but was unable to find that YouTube video, Jack.

 

All you have to do is single-click on the open page's URL bar at top, it should highlight (likely in blue), then click "Edit>copy"

(or key in Control-C for Windows, Apple-C for Mac)

-- Then paste the copied URL into a post.

 

I'd say "This should work" but don't want to be confused with some Techno geek who uses that to answer everything. 

 

 

Edit:

PS — Don't worry Old Chum, these damned boxes makes us all feel dumb. They define "Suck."

Edited by E1pix, 03 July 2019 - 21:59.

[Tim Murray]

Might it be this one?

http://p914-6info.ne...ty 914 Race.mp4

Found on this 914 page

[Jack-the-Lad]

Might it be this one?http://p914-6info.ne...ty 914 Race.mp4
Found on this 914 page

That's the one. Thank you, Tim.

That page is a good resource. I owned a 914/6 for a few years. They are great and underrated cars. They just needed a bit more power, as mine received via a 911S motor transplant.

Edited by Jack-the-Lad, 04 July 2019 - 01:59.

[E1pix]

Thanks from me, too Tim.

I owned a 914/6 for a few years. They just needed a bit more power...

Haha, if it's speed you seek, Man do I ever have a Flat-4 for you. ;-)

[JacnGille]

Thanks from me, too Tim.

Haha, if it's speed you seek, Man do I ever have a Flat-4 for you. ;-)

Only one problem. For "speed" you can only push it outta the International Space Station once.  

[E1pix]

Please knock off the honesty. 

[JacnGille]

If its knocking either put better gas in it or change the timing.

[SKL]

Hey, don't knock the 914!    Had one since new in late 1970...   

 

 

(love the Newman video above...  would love to get my hands on one of those 6's they used in the race.  If you could verify the history that would make a great story at the local C&C)

[E1pix]

Haha, we were knocking my Westfalia. 

[D28]

Haha, we were knocking my Westfalia. 

What vintage is your Westfalia , what size is the flat 4 and what hp.. I believe some of them may have shared the motor found in the 914-4, but i have never really known for sure. Could you fill us in please, set the record straight.

Edited by D28, 06 July 2019 - 21:49.

[E1pix]

1984, 1900cc, 82 whopping bhp when new.

 

Please stand back. (    )

 

 

It's water-cooled, though so never shared its unprecedented engineering prowess with a 914. 

 

 

Edit: Could be wrong, but believe the 1980-83, 2-litre Vanagon air-cooled engine may have been derived from a 914 — or was the 914 a 1600?

Edited by E1pix, 06 July 2019 - 21:53.

[D28]

Thanks. I remain as confused as ever, not knowing some units were water cooled. like you say. Still a 35 year old vehicle, I would call that Vintage. Hang on to those 82 horses in a cross wind, or a radius tightening bend, otherwise enjoy yourself!

Edited by D28, 06 July 2019 - 23:21.