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What should Sebastian Vettel/Ferrari do?


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Poll: The future of Vettel at Ferrari... (415 member(s) have cast votes)

Sebastian Vettel should?

  1. Change teams (75 votes [18.07%])

    Percentage of vote: 18.07%

  2. Stick with Ferrari and hope things get better soon (122 votes [29.40%])

    Percentage of vote: 29.40%

  3. Call it a day, retire from the sport, and enjoy spending more time with his family (218 votes [52.53%])

    Percentage of vote: 52.53%

Ferrari should?

  1. Continue to have faith in Vettel (112 votes [26.99%])

    Percentage of vote: 26.99%

  2. Start looking at replacements (state who) (303 votes [73.01%])

    Percentage of vote: 73.01%

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#101 Maxioos

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 19:42

Ferrari should go for Leclerc imo. is there no need for a Max or Hamilton, I think Leclerc is from same calibre.

If Vettel wants to win, he better looks other categories I think. If he wants to drive F1 and feel good, even while not winning, then RBR seems the place to be for him.

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#102 jannyg

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 19:48

It is a wait and see for now. Others have mentioned this is Sebs worst track and the European leg is not necessarily his strongest, I want and expect to see a reaction in the second half from Seb especially in the Asian leg.

If Leclerc keeps this upward trend and can regularly outpoint Seb, then I think Ferrari have their guy and won't need to go for Max or Lewis. The Vettel situation then resolves itself at the end of 2020 with a mutual separation at the end of contract.

Vettel is undoubtedly quick. But it is starting to look like Leclerc can exceed that and race hard with the top guys without feeling like he could crumble.

Seb is a legend and a driver I like a lot, it is painful seeing him in this slump. But Germany last season was a big turn which he never really recovered from, then the pre season optimism was sucked out of him in Aus, then we all know the Canada story.

Let's see how the second half plays out, it's a big one for Seb unfortunately

#103 Module

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 19:57

I voted two contradictory, Vettel should call it a day and Ferrari should have faith in him.

 

It's just not going to happend is it? Ferrari getting a car that is able to beat Mercedes. It's clearly Vettels dream to win with Ferrari, and he seems to crumble under the dissapoi tment, especially as so many wins are thrown out by bad team performance so no gratification. He should just admit it's not going to happend.

 

On the other hand Ferrari should have faith in him, he is stil up there with the best and if they miraculously get it right he is their best bet for championship.



#104 David Lightman

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 20:03

Vettel is about as convincing this year as Hill was in his last season, I bet if he could walk away now he would.



#105 Fastcake

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 20:25

Ferrari should go for Hamilton. I really doubt that he would move to them unless Mercedes were suddenly uncompetitive, and Lewis fancied one last challenge, but he's the obvious choice. Then maybe Ricciardo, or Verstappen if they can cope with the drama.

 

As for Vettel, he should take a year off. Just to see what he's missing, and if he can rekindle something he has clearly lost.



#106 TomNokoe

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 20:26

It would be great to see Vettel leading the Aston Martin hypercar effort at Le Mans :up:

#107 David Lightman

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 20:30

Has Vettel ever shown any interest in racing in another series?? He strikes me as a Rosberg type.



#108 f1supreme

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 20:33

Ferrari should go for Hamilton. I really doubt that he would move to them unless Mercedes were suddenly uncompetitive, and Lewis fancied one last challenge, but he's the obvious choice. Then maybe Ricciardo, or Verstappen if they can cope with the drama.

 

As for Vettel, he should take a year off. Just to see what he's missing, and if he can rekindle something he has clearly lost.

Nah,i think Ferrari now see Leclerc as their long term investment.

he certainly has the ability to become wdc one day.

I don't think Ferrari would want lewis to race for them,

plus itll be cheaper to make Leclerc their number 1 driver.



#109 Anuity

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 20:34

Ferrari does not need Hamilton. It just doesn’t make any sense:
1) they have now their own star in Leclerc, who is young and and has already shown to be a very competitive and talented guy. Why would they put him in a shadow of Hamilton
2) Hamilton is an amazing driver, but realistically he is entering the end of his career, it would not be a long term acquisition and just for a couple of years? I don’t think so.
3) they still have Sebastian who is regardelsss of his mistakes is still a very fast driver and surely among top 5 best
4) the problem of Ferrari is not the drivers, but the fact is that Mercedes is currently a much better team. It’s not like Ferrari would be a serious contender even if Mercedes had 2 Bottas driving for them?

#110 KavB

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 20:37

I think Vettel needs to leave the team. Something at Ferrari isn't working to bring out his best like at Red Bull, whether it is because of the pressure of being a Ferrari driver, because he's lost faith in the team or something totally unrelated.

I doubt Ferrari are looking to replace him as there are no serious alternatives like there was with Alonso replacing Raikkonen. Their future threat will be Verstappen so even Ricciardo won't be good enough to beat him unless they have a better car.

I think Vettel should move to Mercedes. They are operationally brilliant and so you can focus purely on racing without having doubts in your mind about strategy etc. I know he doesn't care about his public image but he should go against Hamilton, prove he can beat him and help restore his legacy. Had he won at least one title out of 2017 or 2018, we probably would be saying Vettel is in contention for GOAT status and the only way I can see him being in that same level again is by beating Hamilton as teammates (which I think he can do).

I also think Ferrari need to look at themselves and ask why three great drivers in Kimi (at his prime), Alonso and Vettel couldn't win with them (or win multiple titles in the case of Kimi) and had their best years at other teams.

#111 jules153

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 20:39

Ferrari should get RIC to replace VET

#112 RPM40

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 20:40

Vettel should retire. Hanging around is doing him no good. He's too mistake prone and is never going to win anything for Ferrari. Slowly Leclerc will take the leader role in that team if its not happened already.



#113 Anuity

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 20:45

I think this is way too harsh on Seb. He has been driving pretty well this season overall and has been somewhat better than Leclerc at least in race pace.
The credit should go to Charles for being a great driver, rather than Seb being rubbish.
Things also change race to race, last two races Leclerc has been better , but Canada and before it was all Seb. They are both great drivers, I enjoy their partnership so far.

#114 RPM40

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 21:01

I think this is way too harsh on Seb. He has been driving pretty well this season overall and has been somewhat better than Leclerc at least in race pace.
The credit should go to Charles for being a great driver, rather than Seb being rubbish.
Things also change race to race, last two races Leclerc has been better , but Canada and before it was all Seb. They are both great drivers, I enjoy their partnership so far.

 

Key chokes at Bahrain, Canada and Silverstone. Only half way through the season. He's been driving OK but still making a lot of errors.



#115 Anuity

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 21:04

He made a small mistake in Canada but overall was much better than Leclerc that weekend.
Not trying to downplay Leclerc it’s just the criticism to Vettel is a bit ungrounded I feel.
The guy is still top notch. I’m still sure he will grab a win this season and things will pick up for him.

#116 Fatgadget

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 21:05

..Send him back to RedBull for a refund. Or preferably for an exchange with Verstappen :D 



#117 piszkosfred

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 21:10

What is more alarming for me, his performance in quali the last two races. I'm not a big fan of him, but in q3 he is always there. But he was pretty much absent the last two (or three) times. And that's pretty much uncharacteristic for him. In races he makes some bad moves sometimes, but his speed was there. 



#118 AlexPrime

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 21:21

He should go to FE :smoking:



#119 backwards7

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 21:22

I think the crux of the problem is that the Ferrari team as an entity need a driver who excites them and motivates them towards excellence. Psychologically Vettel needs a team who are motivated and energised and moving towards a world championship. Neither appears to be getting what they require from the other, and the end result is inertia and poorly thought-through judgments that make things worse.

 

Ferrari's problems extend beyond the drop-off in performance of their lead driver. They make baffling tactical decisions. There seems to be none of the passion and joy and camaraderie that you used to see from them during the heyday of the Schumacher era. Something is wrong within the team. It is plausible that they could be eclipsed by Red Bull (who do have forward momentum) either towards the end of this season or in the next.

 

Vettel is clearly not the driver he was, and his decline has the air of a permanent fade. He drives like a man who has no belief either in himself or his team. The despondency he exudes in interviews is so tangible that it could actually be interring with his car's aerodynamics. In the future, F1 chassis designers will refer to this phenomena as 'The Vettel Doldrums'.

 

The August break is approaching. Maybe he can reset something internally during that time that reconnects him with Sebastian Vettel, the World Champion: Punch sides of beef in a meat locker, climb a snowy mountain and train with ninjas, duel Daisy Ridley on an island populated by space puffins - I don't know what drivers do in these situations, but he needs to do something. 

 

Vettel's contract expires at the end of 2020. I don't think he will remain in F1 beyond that. I wonder if, through some kind of mutual agreement, he might go sooner. 


Edited by backwards7, 14 July 2019 - 21:24.


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#120 RPM40

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 21:30

I think the crux of the problem is that the Ferrari team as an entity need a driver who excites them and motivates them towards excellence. Psychologically Vettel needs a team who are motivated and energised and moving towards a world championship. Neither appears to be getting what they require from the other, and the end result is inertia and poorly thought-through judgments that make things worse.

 

Ferrari's problems extend beyond the drop-off in performance of their lead driver. They make baffling tactical decisions. There seems to be none of the passion and joy and camaraderie that you used to see from them during the heyday of the Schumacher era. Something is wrong within the team. It is plausible that they could be eclipsed by Red Bull (who do have forward momentum) either towards the end of this season or in the next.

 

Vettel is clearly not the driver he was, and his decline has the air of a permanent fade. He drives like a man who has no belief either in himself or his team. The despondency he exudes in interviews is so tangible that it could actually be interring with his car's aerodynamics. In the future, F1 chassis designers will refer to this phenomena as 'The Vettel Doldrums'.

 

The August break is approaching. Maybe he can reset something internally during that time that reconnects him with Sebastian Vettel, the World Champion: Punch sides of beef in a meat locker, climb a snowy mountain and train with ninjas, duel Daisy Ridley on an island populated by space puffins - I don't know what drivers do in these situations, but he needs to do something. 

 

Vettel's contract expires at the end of 2020. I don't think he will remain in F1 beyond that. I wonder if, through some kind of mutual agreement, he might go sooner. 

 

The thing is, he's always been like this. This is not a new phenomenon with his errors. He threw away the 2009 title and only the absolute dominance of the RB6 saved his mistakes in 2010.  I would agree they were reduced in 2011-2013. But 2016, 2018 and to a lesser extent 2017 saw their return.  



#121 Muppetmad

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 21:40

Vettel isn't going to win a title with Ferrari. Feel free to quote me and mock me if the future proves otherwise, but if Vettel couldn't win the title with Ferrari at least once with the form of the team in 2017 and 2018, I don't see it happening going forward. He seems disenchanted now, and his impact with Verstappen today could be seen coming a mile away.

 

I don't think Vettel can prove himself any further in F1. Leading a manufacturer push for the new hypercar formula in the WEC would be very refreshing to see, and I think it would force Vettel to confront his difficulties with race craft.


Edited by Muppetmad, 14 July 2019 - 21:41.


#122 TomNokoe

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 21:54

I think it should be noted that Vettel was pretty much invincible in the first third of 2018.

His race pace is still generally very strong, including today.

He will re-discover his firm, I am sure.

#123 Goron3

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 21:55

I think it's clear that he's mentally exhausted. The last 12 months have been horrendous for him.

Perhaps a break is necessary? One thing I've always thought about Seb is that he loves Ferrari much more than he loves the current Formula. If he went elsewhere, would he be as motivated?

#124 TheFish

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 22:10

My feelings on Vettel have changed so much over the years. Always felt him winning 4 titles with Red Bull was underserved whilst Alonso and Hamilton toiled, and it really annoyed me at the time. Now it feels like it’s swung too far the other way. He’s a great driver, or at least was. You don’t win over 50 races without being great.

Something in him is broken. I think it goes back to Singapore 2017, others think Germany 2018. Maybe it’s the pressure of Ferrari, maybe he’s fallen out of love with the sport. I don’t know what it is but something is wrong and it can probably only be fixed with a move. Otherwise it’s retirement.

I want to see a resurgence of Seb, he’s had a tough period and it would be a great story to see him return with a bang. Much better than his original red bull story, which is where his story may end.

#125 SonGoku

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 22:10

Interesting to see how long he hangs around if LEC beats him this year. When RIC did it, he was gone. I don't think he will accept 2nd driver at Ferrari.

Vettel's interviews are also alarming. He almost doesn't care anymore if he finishes 5th or 1st.

#126 Pyrone

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 22:22

I believe Vettel is showing signs of 'Ferrari fatigue'. The pressure on a driver in this team have always been greater than anywhere else, and it appears it is taking a toll on the German, who's been mistake-prone over the last two seasons or so. That doesn't mean that I think he's necessarily past his prime, but he needs to find a friendlier and less overtly political environment where to exercise his talent, be it in F1 or elsewhere.

Ferrari on the other hand might be tempted to double down on their recent leap of faith of hiring a young and relatively unproven driver. Given Ferrari's recent past, hiring Leclerc this early seemed like a gamble, but so far it has somewhat paid off, with the young contender ending up eclipsing his more experienced team mate. And given that Ferrari has Schumacher Jr lined up in their development program the same way Leclerc was not too long ago, I wouldn't be overly surprised to see a German replacing another one at the Scuderia.

Schumi Je is driving the powerhouse of Prema in F2 yet only manages midfield results in an extremely poor field (I go as far as calling it Paydriver Formula). The only remarkable thing about him is his name. He is not F1 material let alone F1 top team material.

#127 SCUDmissile

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 22:24

You people should thank Seb for providing the some action in this WOAT season.

It's certainly not coming from the 'best fans' and 'we're in trouble now, honest!' merchants.

Good lad Seb. Keep it going.

#128 kernel

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 22:26

Ferrari does not need Hamilton. It just doesn’t make any sense:
1) they have now their own star in Leclerc, who is young and and has already shown to be a very competitive and talented guy. Why would they put him in a shadow of Hamilton
2) Hamilton is an amazing driver, but realistically he is entering the end of his career, it would not be a long term acquisition and just for a couple of years? I don’t think so.
3) they still have Sebastian who is regardelsss of his mistakes is still a very fast driver and surely among top 5 best
4) the problem of Ferrari is not the drivers, but the fact is that Mercedes is currently a much better team. It’s not like Ferrari would be a serious contender even if Mercedes had 2 Bottas driving for them?


By getting Hamilton, you severely weaken Mercedes and you get a guy who can deliver the goods in crunch time. Also, every driver would love to race at Ferrari so it’s not like Ferrari will struggle to attract Max Verstappen, or Norris or Russell, etc. in the future

#129 ArrowsLivery

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 22:28

Schumi Je is driving the powerhouse of Prema in F2 yet only manages midfield results in an extremely poor field (I go as far as calling it Paydriver Formula). The only remarkable thing about him is his name. He is not F1 material let alone F1 top team material.


In Vettel’s current form, I don’t think he would dominate F2 either...

#130 piszkosfred

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 22:30

I don't know how much the team behind him. In the past, RB protected him no matter what, he was hundred percent N1 at Ferrari until this year. It could happen, that after last year there were some doubts in the team (like in this forum f.e.) if he could be a WC again. Of course Binotto or other team leaders wont say this, but it could happen that (since there is young promising new talent in the other car) the majority of the team sees Leclerc the possible new champion now and that affects Vettel's mind.


Edited by piszkosfred, 14 July 2019 - 22:31.


#131 azza200

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 22:40

I really don't think Fernando was tired of F1, just tired of McLaren

 

But he is clearly enjoying life out of F1 and doing other forms of motor racing 

Vettels brother took part in the Nurburgring  24 hours. But then how would how would Seb be in sportscars for example where he has to be a team player and think about the car and the consequences for the team and other drivers if he makes a silly mistake like today and makes the car retire. He would need a whole different mindset to last and cope IMO i could be wrong in all of that. 



#132 FormulaWin

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 23:04

Vettel has now finished his transformation into Grosjean - hints of searing pace, often let down by questionable racecraft (and also prone to fits of pique).

 

I'd love to see how he'd perform at a different team - perhaps at McLaren, if their improvement continues (as a replacement for Sainz).

 

I think Ferrari will embrace their nature and promote Leclerc to No.1 driver for 2020 and partner him with an obvious No.2 (possibly Gionvinazzi).



#133 Celloman

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 23:19

I don't know how much the team behind him. In the past, RB protected him no matter what, he was hundred percent N1 at Ferrari until this year. It could happen, that after last year there were some doubts in the team (like in this forum f.e.) if he could be a WC again. Of course Binotto or other team leaders wont say this, but it could happen that (since there is young promising new talent in the other car) the majority of the team sees Leclerc the possible new champion now and that affects Vettel's mind.

It's hard for me to see how the team could not be behind him. I mean, Binotto publicly came out before the season to tell the public that Vettel is the number one driver and they even issued team orders in favor of Vettel earlier in the season. I don't know what more they could have done for him.


Edited by Celloman, 14 July 2019 - 23:21.


#134 black magic

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 23:29

seb has only ever really looked good when the car was great and he was out the front. never been able to take a car where it didnt already deserve to be.

 

to be effectively outpaced by newbie when it was set up to be his team is pretty damning moment and goes to how lost ferrari are that they were taking points off leclerc at the season beginning. backing the wrong horse and once you realise hes no longer the horse to back time to look elsewhere. max obvious solution



#135 Docc

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 23:30

LeClerc and Max would be exciting...



#136 Laminar

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 23:34

I think Vettel missed his window in 2017/18 to win the title for Ferrari. I doubt he will get those same chances again and patience has worn thin from both sides probably. Priority should be getting Max.



#137 as65p

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 23:44

I don't think Vettel can prove himself any further in F1. Leading a manufacturer push for the new hypercar formula in the WEC would be very refreshing to see, and I think it would force Vettel to confront his difficulties with race craft.

 

Well, it's not really a given that Vettel can be any good in other series. He could be, of course, but it could also be a disaster. Alonso has probably skewed the perception somewhat, as if any F1 driver could just jump into other series and run at the front, but I don't think so.



#138 MikeV1987

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 23:47

Feels like Vettel is mentally checked out, I can see him doing one more season but that’s it. Ferrari should be looking for his replacement.

#139 ArrowsLivery

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 23:57

Well, it's not really a given that Vettel can be any good in other series. He could be, of course, but it could also be a disaster. Alonso has probably skewed the perception somewhat, as if any F1 driver could just jump into other series and run at the front, but I don't think so.


Prototypes are very similar to F1 right now, so any decent F1 driver would adapt easily. Hulk won LM at the first try, and that was against actual competition.

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#140 RekF1

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Posted 15 July 2019 - 00:01

His interview on 5 live last Friday said it all. Maximum respect for speaking his mind, but he had a vague idea as to who should enforce the rules. Whether defending, attacking, rejoining, inside or outside, optional white lines, ramming into other cars. He's going full on "cars 3" , and nobody wanted to see that... Now can we all do the bondable thing and blame it on the women in his life, and fatherhood.

#141 noikeee

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Posted 15 July 2019 - 00:35

In Vettel’s current form, I don’t think he would dominate F2 either...


Erm yes I think he would and by a margin.

There's nothing wrong with his pace apart from the last 2 or 3 qualifying sessions. He's been slightly quicker than Leclerc in almost every race. You know, the same Leclerc that SMASHED a better F2 grid than this one. I think people are nuts not to notice how quick Vettel still is. The issue is his racecraft is bizarrely poor for such a quick driver, and he does seem mentally exhausted. But he's still blindingly quick. A team change to a friendlier environment could work wonders.

#142 Albertino

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Posted 15 July 2019 - 00:37

seb has only ever really looked good when the car was great and he was out the front. never been able to take a car where it didnt already deserve to be.

 

to be effectively outpaced by newbie when it was set up to be his team is pretty damning moment and goes to how lost ferrari are that they were taking points off leclerc at the season beginning. backing the wrong horse and once you realise hes no longer the horse to back time to look elsewhere. max obvious solution

 

Really? His first win was in a Torro Rosso in the wet. Hamilton gave Alonso a run for his money in his first year, in a few years time we might be saying how quick Vet was against a future world champion (LEC). LEC was faster in Austria, Silverstone, Bahrain, and MAYBE  Baku. Looks a bit more even doesn't it?

 

His race wins in 2017-2018 were extraordinary. 



#143 JHSingo

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Posted 15 July 2019 - 00:43

Has Vettel ever shown any interest in racing in another series?? He strikes me as a Rosberg type.

 

I believe he's talked about a desire to race at Le Mans, but only after his F1 career is done. He's always struck me as someone who is a student of the sport, and is knowledgeable about other categories. I'd be more surprised to see Hamilton racing elsewhere after F1 than Seb.

 

The thing is, he's always been like this. This is not a new phenomenon with his errors. He threw away the 2009 title and only the absolute dominance of the RB6 saved his mistakes in 2010.  I would agree they were reduced in 2011-2013. But 2016, 2018 and to a lesser extent 2017 saw their return.  

 

I disagree with the bolded - Brawn had a dominant car for the first half of that year, and Red Bull just ran out of time to catch them. I wouldn't say he "threw it away". Plus, in 2010, he had quite a few mechanical issues that cost him points (Bahrain, Australia and Korea stand out) - which, without, he'd likely have won quite comfortably.

 

I'm not sure incidents 9-10 year ago are relevant today. Would we still be talking about Hamilton's 2011 season if he crashed out of a race now? Unlikely. Back then, he was younger and more inexperienced, and it was at a point of his career where mistakes were to be expected - as is the case for a lot of young drivers in the early days of their career.

 

I'm more interested in discussing what is more recent. Certainly, since Germany last year, it has felt like he has made more driving mistakes in a shorter time frame than probably any other point in his career, which is why it stands out. I thought the winter break would give him time to reset after what was, by any standards, a pretty rotten second half to '18, but that doesn't seem to have been the case. It has all the signs of being a slump that results in something changing, whether it's Vettel leaving the team or the sport imo.



#144 PlayboyRacer

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Posted 15 July 2019 - 00:45

He's been slightly quicker than Leclerc in almost every race.

Ummm... not really. No.

Edited by PlayboyRacer, 15 July 2019 - 00:46.


#145 Atreiu

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Posted 15 July 2019 - 00:58

Someone on the race thread said Vettel is living his Hamilton-2011. I thought it was a terrific observation.

 

The issue is whether Vettel still has the drive to get out of the slump and return to his best form. Over 30 and with 200+ GPs, I'm sure some boredome is creeping in while Mercedes and Hamilton dominate.

 

I don't see him racing for any other team, so it's Ferrari or something else outside of F1.

 

Also, I have never seen before one single race change everything for a driver. I clearly see a pre and post Hockenheim 2018 Vettel.



#146 noikeee

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Posted 15 July 2019 - 01:02

Also, I have never seen before one single race change everything for a driver. I clearly see a pre and post Hockenheim 2018 Vettel.


Felipe Massa, Hockenheim 2010.

#147 Bliman

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Posted 15 July 2019 - 01:10

Vettel has now finished his transformation into Grosjean - hints of searing pace, often let down by questionable racecraft (and also prone to fits of pique).

 

I'd love to see how he'd perform at a different team - perhaps at McLaren, if their improvement continues (as a replacement for Sainz).

 

I think Ferrari will embrace their nature and promote Leclerc to No.1 driver for 2020 and partner him with an obvious No.2 (possibly Gionvinazzi).

Giovinazzi? Really.



#148 noikeee

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Posted 15 July 2019 - 01:14

As it stands neither Giovinazzi nor Mick Schumacher are anywhere near good enough even for a clear #2 role. Maybe one day if Mick keeps his trend to miraculously improve loads in season 2 in every series he races in.

If Ferrari want to replace Vettel they need to look elsewhere. It might be a super uninspiring choice but if this chairs dance sees Bottas without a seat, he'd be a good fit.

#149 Nathan

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Posted 15 July 2019 - 02:30

If I ran Ferrari I would ring Ricciardo and lock him up for 2021. If he isnt interested sign Hulk for 2020.

LeClerc can get the job done. Maybe the first WDC challenge will be a learning experience, but its inevitable one way or the other.

#150 Joseki

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Posted 15 July 2019 - 06:28

Felipe Massa, Hockenheim 2010.


Massa's pace was **** compared to Alonso from the first race, it just went unnoticed because Alonso did a few mistakes.

Massa wasn't the faster driver of the two in a single race that year before Germany.