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The wait for a rainy/wet F1 race...


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#1 FirstnameLastname

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 22:43

I’m sure the mind plays tricks, but I feel like F1 seasons of old had a lot more rain affected races than modern times. I’d love to see a wet f1 race again soon, the extra bit of unpredictability... although, that said; red flags and safety cars seem to be the order of the day in recent years.

Also seems to be a habit of building up the ‘threat’ of rain... only for the heavens to open post-race when the tv lot are hanging round the paddock!

Last time wet tyres were used the entire race? Brazil, 2016.

Wets used properly in part of the race? Singapore, 2017.

Wets used, but track not wet enough for them? Germany, 2018.

.... hope one of the remaining races includes a downpour. There will be drivers in the current field who have never driven an F1 car in wet conditions. No wonder Lewis seems to Hoover up the wins when the rain does (rarely) fall.

Edited by FirstnameLastname, 14 July 2019 - 22:46.


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#2 BRG

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Posted 16 July 2019 - 18:04

The last round of the Superformula in Japan was at Fuji and it was absolutely throwing it down throughout.  They started the race on time, did two laps behind the SC and then got on with it.  Apart from a few minor running wide incidents and one harmless spin, there was no problem at all.  F1 would have never even started the race in those conditions.  Maybe all the grown-up drivers and race directors are in Japan



#3 Touchdown

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Posted 16 July 2019 - 18:57

The last round of the Superformula in Japan was at Fuji and it was absolutely throwing it down throughout.  They started the race on time, did two laps behind the SC and then got on with it.  Apart from a few minor running wide incidents and one harmless spin, there was no problem at all.  F1 would have never even started the race in those conditions.  Maybe all the grown-up drivers and race directors are in Japan

Helps that the Superformula cars and drivers race on proper rain tyres rather than the rubbish Pirelli produce but I agree, F1 is far too cautious about rain.



#4 Victor

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Posted 16 July 2019 - 19:37

Absolutely, I miss rain!

But I would not be surprised if the next GP under heavy rain would be raced behind the safety car from start to end...



#5 klyster

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Posted 16 July 2019 - 19:51

The last round of the Superformula in Japan was at Fuji and it was absolutely throwing it down throughout.  They started the race on time, did two laps behind the SC and then got on with it.  Apart from a few minor running wide incidents and one harmless spin, there was no problem at all.  F1 would have never even started the race in those conditions.  Maybe all the grown-up drivers and race directors are in Japan

 

It was full on, couldn't see anything  but the hoop lights down the straights!



#6 Henri Greuter

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Posted 16 July 2019 - 20:31

With respect to as of why the lack of rain races:

 

Climate change anyone????



#7 Fatgadget

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Posted 16 July 2019 - 20:37

With respect to as of why the lack of rain races:

 

Climate change anyone????

That has to be a factor surely. Time was a rain affected race almost a regular occurrence.



#8 NewMrMe

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Posted 16 July 2019 - 20:42

It just happens that sometimes there is a large gap between wet races. It happened in the 80s. Spa 1985 was wet and afterwards there wasn't another wet one until Silverstone 1988.



#9 Heyli

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Posted 16 July 2019 - 20:46

That has to be a factor surely. Time was a rain affected race almost a regular occurrence.

Actually, I think that Climate change is actually causing more "extreme" weather conditions, so I would expect more rain thanks to that? 



#10 PayasYouRace

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Posted 16 July 2019 - 21:07

Why would anyone be surprised that we get nice weather in a sport where events are organised according to what time of year that location is most likely to have nice weather?



#11 pdac

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Posted 16 July 2019 - 21:25

I'm waiting for the snow-affected races. I'm sure "climate change" will throw them up soon.



#12 Atreiu

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Posted 16 July 2019 - 21:28

Not sure if...

 

I'll gladly welcome a wet race.

 

Who knows at Sochi? Suddenly the race becomes a classic.



#13 Kalmake

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Posted 16 July 2019 - 21:40

Why would anyone be surprised that we get nice weather in a sport where events are organised according to what time of year that location is most likely to have nice weather?

I don't see much dodging of rainy seasons. Do give examples.

 

Singapore does use less rainy time of day.



#14 PayasYouRace

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Posted 16 July 2019 - 21:44

I don't see much dodging of rainy seasons. Do give examples.

 

Singapore does use less rainy time of day.

 

Not sure if you're seriously asking as it's really quite obvious.

 

In the northern hemisphere, races are placed more towards the summer as they go further north. The more southerly ones are in the spring and autumn to avoid it being too hot. Southern hemisphere races are at the ends of the season.



#15 PlatenGlass

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Posted 16 July 2019 - 21:51

Why would anyone be surprised that we get nice weather in a sport where events are organised according to what time of year that location is most likely to have nice weather?

We seemed to go through a period of crisis where the Asian races seemed to be constantly at risk of being so wet that they might have to be cancelled. Then that just went away.

#16 Kalmake

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Posted 16 July 2019 - 21:53

Not sure if you're seriously asking as it's really quite obvious.

 

In the northern hemisphere, races are placed more towards the summer as they go further north. The more southerly ones are in the spring and autumn to avoid it being too hot. Southern hemisphere races are at the ends of the season.

Not sure if you even read my post.

 

Yes, they do take temperature into account obviously. And logistics of having nearby races back to back.

 

I was talking about rain. Which races are where they are to avoid rain?



#17 Kalmake

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Posted 16 July 2019 - 21:56

We seemed to go through a period of crisis where the Asian races seemed to be constantly at risk of being so wet that they might have to be cancelled. Then that just went away.

Bernie moved Malaysia to later time of day, when it's more likely to rain. And then the race couldn't be finished.

 

Suzuka is same as ever. It doesn't have much options.



#18 PayasYouRace

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Posted 16 July 2019 - 21:57

Not sure if you even read my post.

 

Yes, they do take temperature into account obviously. And logistics of having nearby races back to back.

 

I was talking about rain. Which races are where they are to avoid rain?

 

I just told you.



#19 JonnyJ

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Posted 16 July 2019 - 22:12

We're definitely going through a dry spell but I think it's just a fluke. We were one week away from having a rain affected Monaco and Canada this season. This Saturday theres thunderstorms forecast at Silverstone...

I remain convinced the law of averages will play out and we'll get rain at some race this year, its just taking its sweet time.

Looking at the remaining races likely ones are Budapest (thunderstorms bubble up out of nowhere quite regularly), Spa, Japan, USA and Brazil. Singapore always seems to threaten but never happen (apart from that one time), last wet race at Monza was over a decade ago.

Either that or the FIA sneakily banned it in 2018 without anyone realising.

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#20 Kalmake

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Posted 16 July 2019 - 22:14

I just told you.

You didn't name one.

 

You did pinpoint Southern hemisphere which are two races. Brazil would have less likely rain if it was in the early side of the season like it used to be, so that can't be it. Australia? Maybe.



#21 Shade

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Posted 16 July 2019 - 22:18

Ferrari doesn't have the best car, so it's not going to rain anytime soon.



#22 BuddyHolly

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Posted 16 July 2019 - 22:39

I love wet races as it really showcases the drivers talent but I'm not sure we'll get them anymore, sure maybe with light drizzle but over that and it'll be 30-40 laps behind the SC.

 

I'm sadly beginning to think we'll never see any races like Spain 96, Donnington 93, Spa 98 & 63 or Monaco 84 again.



#23 superdelphinus

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Posted 16 July 2019 - 22:48

Global warming gone mad

#24 MKSixer

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Posted 16 July 2019 - 23:46

I love wet races as it really showcases the drivers talent but I'm not sure we'll get them anymore, sure maybe with light drizzle but over that and it'll be 30-40 laps behind the SC.

 

I'm sadly beginning to think we'll never see any races like Spain 96, Donnington 93, Spa 98 & 63 or Monaco 84 again.

Silverstone 2008!  :clap:



#25 rattymouse

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 00:40

Absolutely, I miss rain!

But I would not be surprised if the next GP under heavy rain would be raced behind the safety car from start to end...

 

Rain races have sucked big time since Pirelli tires showed up.  Pirelli can't make a tire worth racing to save its life.  God I miss Bridgestone.



#26 Jazza

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 01:27

Moving races from Europe to other parts of the world like the Middle East surely hasn’t helped the chances of wet races. But, “chance” is what this is all about. Even last weekend it rained during practice. There have been a lot of weekends where it has rained before or after sessions (even in the Middle Eastern races!), or been wet in the days before or after the event. So there is probably still as much rain happening now as in years past, it’s just not happening on a Sunday afternoon during the race.

When a race is only 1.5 hours long over a 76 hour event, it’s not that shocking that the race often happens during one of the drier parts of the weekend. Even a very wet week will have times of no rain.

#27 taz

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 04:57

I'm waiting for the snow-affected races. I'm sure "climate change" will throw them up soon.

 

Spa or Silverstone in late april or early may could get snow, as in the WEC races last year or the year before(?)
 



#28 Rediscoveryx

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 07:17

I'm not sure there's much too be done about the lack of wet races. As NewMrMe pointed out; this happens from time to time.

 

What probably could be done however is to make sure that we actually let them race when it rains. Conditions are the same for everyone, so if you're struggling, lower your pace. If the issue is that current cars are aquaplaning then couldn't that be solved by tweaking parc fermé regulations so that ride heights can be increased even more when rain is looming (or some other set up tweak to ease the situation)?



#29 Ferrim

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 07:51

Silverstone 2008!  :clap:

 

Silverstone 2008 is the last proper wet race we've had. Messing around with the SC was already usual back then, I remember being surprised when rain started to fall heavier and they didn't bring it out, even though most people were on intermediate tyres and the track was calling for wets. Going into wet tyres gave Barrichello & Honda a podium with that lemon of a car...

 

Those were the days when I used to follow every race with the former Live Timing app open in a desktop window. I have this vivid recollection of several laps in the middle of the race, when rain was heaviest and people were going off the track: Hamilton, who was already confortably leading, started lapping like five seconds a lap faster than everyone else out there. Mesmerizing.


Edited by Ferrim, 17 July 2019 - 07:51.


#30 phrank

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 07:53

Lol @ those people screaming 'climate change'



#31 SenorSjon

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 08:06

The last round of the Superformula in Japan was at Fuji and it was absolutely throwing it down throughout.  They started the race on time, did two laps behind the SC and then got on with it.  Apart from a few minor running wide incidents and one harmless spin, there was no problem at all.  F1 would have never even started the race in those conditions.  Maybe all the grown-up drivers and race directors are in Japan

 

They have race tires for dry AND wet. 

 

Perhaps they should bring back the monsoon tires to get racing in more torid conditions. It doesn't help Pirelli's need a lot of heat and rain cools them down again.



#32 Taxi

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 08:18

it's gona be Spa. 



#33 Rediscoveryx

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 08:18

They have race tires for dry AND wet. 

 

Perhaps they should bring back the monsoon tires to get racing in more torid conditions. It doesn't help Pirelli's need a lot of heat and rain cools them down again.

 

The problem with the monsoon tyres was that they always preferred to bring out the Safety Car when conditions would have demanded them. So there was no real point in having them...



#34 dweller23

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 08:21

Darrell Waltrip's vortex theory is true. Just look at France last year.



#35 Imperial

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 08:39

It has absolutely chucked down after 5 of the last 6 GP's I've attended. It didn't at Austria this year, but there was a huge storm at 7pm at the start of the weekend.

I'm not saying there is no climate change, however I just think rain tends to come late afternoon onwards, when it starts to cool and pressure changes.

Edited by Imperial, 17 July 2019 - 08:40.


#36 SpeedRacer`

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 08:40

Formula E went through the same period, then suddenly there was literally one wet race after another. It will happen eventually, and when it does there will probably be more than 1!



#37 SenorSjon

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 09:51

The problem with the monsoon tyres was that they always preferred to bring out the Safety Car when conditions would have demanded them. So there was no real point in having them...

 

Rules changed and races like Brazil 2003 happened where they could only bring one type of wet tire (intermediat OR wet, not both). With two tire manufacturs, one had a wet and the other an inter. So the race continued. With a control tire, there is no reason not to have it.



#38 Rediscoveryx

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 09:54

Rules changed and races like Brazil 2003 happened where they could only bring one type of wet tire (intermediat OR wet, not both). With two tire manufacturs, one had a wet and the other an inter. So the race continued. With a control tire, there is no reason not to have it.

 

I agree, I'm just pointing out that monsoon tyres need to be coupled with a larger tolerance for downpour (perhaps even dispensing with safety cars due to poor weather altogether).



#39 ExFlagMan

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 10:08

People wanting wet races - will same people then complain about the use of the SC for too many laps?

 

Must be at least 3 days since the forum had a good 'moan' topic.



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#40 Rediscoveryx

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 10:10



People wanting wet races - will same people then complain about the use of the SC for too many laps?

 

 

...but wouldn't that be consistent? If you want a wet race then presumably you want a wet race, not a wet procession behind the safety car. :)



#41 SenorSjon

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 10:17

I do wonder what kind of ancient tires Pirelli brings or if they make new tires for every event and thus tossing away tires for years.

 

I remember an unfaithful WSBK weekend in Italy where the Pirelli rain tires could not cope. On closer inspection it seemed the rain tires were years old. Can't find the article now, but it was about five years ago.



#42 FPV GTHO

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 10:26

Rules changed and races like Brazil 2003 happened where they could only bring one type of wet tire (intermediat OR wet, not both). With two tire manufacturs, one had a wet and the other an inter. So the race continued. With a control tire, there is no reason not to have it.


You're mistaken there. The current 2 wet tyre model was present during the Michelin/Bridgestone tyre model. What happened was one manufacturer would label their tyres Inter/Wet and the other would label them Wet/Extreme Wet.

#43 Baddoer

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 10:33

Plenty of chances. Belgium, Italy (2017 qualy), Russia (rained in GP2 last year), Japan and of course Brazil.



#44 Fonzey

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 10:37

For people who watch most/all sessions it doesn't seem quite that rare to see a bit of rain, but it's amazing when you think about the actual races and how long it's been.

 

I love a wet qualifying rather than racing which is more likely to be SC'd off till its time for inters/slicks. Seeing the drivers effectively lose all of their reference points for the weekend and then go out to put in their most aggressive lap of the weekend is fantastic. 

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=-eTFNSalcmI - this was brilliant.



#45 krapmeister

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 11:04

Actually, I think that Climate change is actually causing more "extreme" weather conditions, so I would expect more rain thanks to that? 

 


No it will still rain less often - but that when it does rain it will be heavier/more extreme...

#46 Augurk

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 11:27

I think getting less wet races has to do with a couple of things combined

- more races in places less prone to rain (f.i. the middle-east)

- the order of the calendar is decided for a big part on the local climate thus reducing the chance of bad weather

- there seems to be a trade-off in frequency of times that it rains to amount of rain that falls during a shower/storm (probably climate change at work)

 

Still it seems the amount of rain races defies random chance, so there must be bigger forces at play. I can think of a few:

1. Bernie Ecclestone is doing some dark voodoo magic to prevent races from being too entertaining ever since he was booted from the chair

2. F1 produces so much carbon output or heat that the air pressure that results from it pushes showers away from the tracks

3. Pirelli is using huge wind machines to keep rain away from the races as to not expose their dreadful rain spec

4. Either 1 or 3 but replace Ecclestone/Pirelli with someone that has put options on a high stock sale price for companies that manufacture poncho's and sell them at F1 events

5. Aliens



#47 JeePee

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 11:36

We haven't had a wet race since the new race director, so we can't be too sure about the same amount of Safety Cars as before.



#48 Rinehart

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 11:54

Formula E had a bunch of them this season, previously they’d had none. It’s called weather...

#49 CPR

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 12:35

I've not been counting, but it seems to me that we'd had several FPs where it rained the last few years. Also quali. But the races seem to be dry more often.

I'd put this down to the randomness of weather. Let's say that the probability of rain during a 90 minute window is just 5% (ie 1 in 20). That means on average that you'd get 2-3 wet FPs, one wet quali and one wet race per year. But it also means that a year with no wet races is quite likely...



#50 PlatenGlass

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 14:23

Quite often you'll hear the commentators say that there's a 50% chance (or whatever) of rain before the end of the race (or qualifying session). Based on the number of races/sessions where it actually rains after they've said this, I think these are always a massive overestimate.

Basically it needs to be an 80% chance for there to be any chance at all! (OK, slight exaggeration.)

Edited by PlatenGlass, 17 July 2019 - 14:24.