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Cooper T51 identity F2-7-59 or F2-27-59?


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#1 SGM

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Posted 19 July 2019 - 02:52

Okay, I am completely confused! I am documenting some motorsport history in Tasmania and I am trying to determine the identity of the Cooper T51 which was owned by the Sternberg family from December 1961 to March 1966. As far as I am aware it was a Cooper Works car raced by Jack Brabham during 1959 then taken down under for the New Zealand Grand Prix in January 1960 and then to Australia for Longford and a couple of other races before being sold to Bib Stillwell in late 1960. From what I understand Stillwell swapped the engine, suspension and wheels from his own car with that of the Brabham car before eventually selling it to Lex Sternberg in December 1961. It was eventually restored by John Blanden and he refers to it in the first edition of his book "Historic Racing Cars of Australia" as F2-1-59 and he believed it was the 1959 British Grand Prix winning machine.

 
This is where it gets messy as I have seen this car stated as being chassis number F2-7-59 (the 1959 Monaco winner?) and also F2-4-59. On a thread in the TNF archive back in 2012 David McKinney wrote "the car now wears chassis number F2-27-59 (as it did originally)". From what I can make out this would tie in with Blanden's opinion that it was the British Grand Prix winner.
 
So, is it the Monaco winner or the British Grand Prix winner or neither?


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#2 Allen Brown

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Posted 19 July 2019 - 13:18

In his second edition, Blanden has much more on the car, and calls if F2-7-59.  He then quotes the F1 Register history of F2-7-59 which gives it the Monaco GP win.

 

As neither John nor David are still with us to take us through their research, it may be necessary to retrace their steps.  Having spent ages deciphering the history of the car Jack Brabham brought to Australia one year later, I can only advise that you're going to need a lot of photographs and a magnifying glass.  



#3 john medley

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Posted 19 July 2019 - 20:32

Ask David Rapley?



#4 SGM

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Posted 20 July 2019 - 01:50

It is interesting that Blanden changed his opinion on the car for the second book. I've attached a couple of links to websites which show results for the era with chassis numbers. One of them shows F2/7/59 being raced by Roy Salvatori in 1960 which would be in conflict with Blanden's identification of the car. Whether these websites align with the F1 register you mention, I have no idea. I notice on your own site Allen that you have the car listed as F2-4-59 with a question mark beside it. Are you able to elaborate on this at all? 

 

John, is David Rapley on TNF?

 

I believe the car is now owned by John Clark in the UK?

 

http://www.ultimater...php?uniqid=3016

 

http://www.silhouet..../1960/1960.html



#5 john medley

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Posted 20 July 2019 - 01:56

SGM: DR is in Melbourne, a most knowledgeable person, particularly re Coopers



#6 SGM

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Posted 21 July 2019 - 03:19

Thanks John, I will try to track him down



#7 RAP

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Posted 30 July 2019 - 15:00

I am currently keeper of the Formula One Register records.

First thing to say is that the Works Cooper IDs are a best murky and the Cooper records do not include every car built - see Doug Nye's Cooper book about cars built from kits of parts. 

The Cooper Works Records, which we had access to back in the 60s shows F2-1-59 as one of the British Racing Partnership Cooper-Borgward F2 cars and not therefore a works F1 car. A car carrying this ID currently races in UK historics though where it is indeed this car I could not say.

F2-23a-58 is shown as Works car i (noted as sold to Fred Tuck in early 61)

F2-4-59 is shown as Works II (probably written off in 59)

F2-7-59 is Works III

F2-27-59 is Works car IV with Oct 1959 date

 

A car appeared at the London Motor Show in Oct 59 that David McKinney though was a new car with F2-1-59 but logically was F2-27-59

 

Which, if any, of these is the car you are interested was probably not even clear at the time except to those directly involved in the deal.

Richard Page


Edited by RAP, 30 July 2019 - 15:02.