436 replies to this topic

[oldtransamdriver]

look up  -  Damon, Bale, to star in Ford vs. Ferrari movie -  on motorsport.com

 

Robert

Edited by oldtransamdriver, 21 June 2018 - 18:58.

[Tim Murray]

https://www.motorspo...-movie-1046837/

https://m.imdb.com/title/tt1950186/

[Keir]

Just looked at the cast - no Chris Amon character ?

 

Now, I know that the flick is all about Ken Miles, but how do you leave out one of the pivotal drivers in the Ford effort to win Le Mans ?? And the eventual winner with Bruce McLaren ???

[opplock]

Historical accuracy has never been a priority in Hollywood. I assume Amon has been replaced by an American. Pete Aron by any chance? Do McLaren and Hulme feature or have they also been replaced by Americans? Or is this a low budget production in which both McLaren and Miles drive solo for 24 hours?

 

I think I'll give it a miss and watch Grand Prix again. 

[Tim Murray]

Or is this a low budget production in which both McLaren and Miles drive solo for 24 hours?

It would seem so. There’s a cast list in the IMDb link in post 2 above, and I can’t find any mention in it of either Amon or Hulme (although it includes important characters such as ‘female spectator’ and ‘hot dog vendor’).

[D28]

You people complain too much, the storyline includes Italian actress Claudia Cardinale; wouldn't you sooner watch her portrayed rather than Hulme or Amon? Not sure what connection the real Cardinale had to endurance racing in the 1960s, maybe I should watch the movie to find out. On second thought I think I'll just reread the Rinsey Mills bio of Shelby. I can't imagine any mere actor getting into the character head of Carroll Shelby, as for Enzo Ferrari... forget about it all together.

[Tim Murray]

Some thoughts on the film from Shelby/Ford authority Wallace Wyss, who has his reservations:

https://www.hemmings...carroll-shelby/

[D28]

Some thoughts on the film from Shelby/Ford authority Wallace Wyss, who has his reservations:

https://www.hemmings...carroll-shelby/

Saw this last night and he is also puzzled at the inclusion of Ms Cardinale into the story. Someone's love interest, but which individual?

[pete53]

Who's Burt? Lancaster? I'm joking but perhaps it is

 

https://m.imdb.com/title/tt1950186/

[Tim Murray]

The cast list on IMDb has expanded:

https://m.imdb.com/t...ref_=m_tt_cl_sc

Someone called Brent Pontin is playing Chris Amon. Ben ‘Stig’ Collins is playing Denny Hulme, and Alex Gurney is playing his Dad.

Thanks for the heads-up, Keir.

[Emery0323]

Not to mention:

Adam Mayfield as Lloyd Ruby
Benjamin Rigby as Bruce McLaren
Remo Girone as Enzo Ferrari

 

I am not plugged into popular culture these days - Aside from Christian Bale (as Ken Miles) and Matt Damon (as Carroll Shelby) I don't recognize any of these names.

[Tim Murray]

Trailer:

[Eric Dunsdon]

Just like motor racing itself, Film Stars aren't what they used to be. .

[jcbc3]

I agree.

They are better these days.

[Tom Glowacki]

Saw this last night and he is also puzzled at the inclusion of Ms Cardinale into the story. Someone's love interest, but which individual?

Mrs. Henry Ford, don't you think?

[Garsted]

I just watched the trailer - I do hope there is a disclaimer somewhere :-   "No Ferrari 330 P4s were harmed in the making of this motion picture"

 

Steve

[Victor_RO]

I just watched the trailer - I do hope there is a disclaimer somewhere :-   "No Ferrari 330 P4s were harmed in the making of this motion picture"

 

Steve

 

Undoubtedly CGI or cheap replicas built to be crashed. Also, I just read that Dan Gurney's part will be played by his son Alex.

[jj2728]

I just watched the trailer - I do hope there is a disclaimer somewhere :-   "No Ferrari 330 P4s were harmed in the making of this motion picture"

 

Steve

No P4s in 1966. They were P3s. 

[E1pix]

To some above, can we see the movie before yet again presuming Americans are always wrong?

[Garsted]

No P4s in 1966. They were P3s. 

 

Fair point, I stand corrected (I just have a bit of a thing about P4s)  and look forward to seeing the film

 

Steve

[404KF2]

New racing movie?  Sounds good to me!

[SKL]

Look forward to it, but some of the "crash" scenes on the trailer remind me that disaster "Driven."     That was so bad my sons and I were laughing thru most of it.

 

Another one coming out "Heroes"  looks REALLY good.

[rl1856]

I for one am glad for:  The story coming to the big screen.  The role of Ken Miles to be included as an integral part of the story.  

 

Mr. Bale looks and sounds the part.   I will with hold judgment on Mr. Damon as Shelby until more footage emerges and/or I see the movie.

 

The story itself has enough background to create a proper foundation for the 4yrs of focus, and enough left for an epilogue including the Jcar tragedy and the legacy of the GT40.

 

I do hope the Daytona is included as well.

 

Americans do not hold a monopoly on blending fiction with fact in the interest of selling a historical story.

Edited by rl1856, 04 June 2019 - 19:41.

[BRG]

Americans do not hold a monopoly on blending fiction with fact in the interest of selling a historical story.

True, but they have raised it to an art form.

 

From the trailer, it looks like Talladega Nights meets Driven, but then trailers are generally sensationalised and rarely do the main film any favours.

[guiporsche]

Reading the casting list tells much of how 'serious' (for TNF standards) the movie will be. No Mike Parkes, no Surtees, no Forghieri (although there's a couple of 'Ferrari Pit Box' and 'Ferrari Pit Leader' characters mentioned). Chris Amon is well dooooown the list, but the Agnellis are out in force, with both Gianni and Umberto!

 

In essence, I suppose it's AJ Baime's book on a mix of steroids and Saturn V fuel. The book was quite alright for what it was, but this seems to be a different proposition altogether. Ford with a couple of mavericks doing the miracle against the financial might (entirely comparable to Ford of course, probably even superior, who knows!) of Ferrari and Fiat. There'll be no mention of Daytona 67 as the narrative seems to be limited to 1966, but probably after the end there's a couple of sentences against a black screen describing the subsequent nastier bits (Miles's death).

 

I'm sure the film is going to be a success, though, and if it manages to bring motorsport to the attention of young kids then all the better! God knows the mainstream media's love for motor racing is not exactly high these days.

 

P.S. Bale as Miles is a good choice and he could easily play Shelby, but Damon (who looks like a schoolboy in the trailer) as Shelby does not make any sense to me.  

[john aston]

True, but they have raised it to an art form.

 

From the trailer, it looks like Talladega Nights meets Driven, but then trailers are generally sensationalised and rarely do the main film any favours.

 More than a little unfair as we do exactly the same - see recent rewrites of history on Alan Turing , Stephen Hawking , Queen Anne and ..err.. Queen . I am relaxed about it - they are entertainments, not documentaries. Of course I enjoyed the film about Bruce McLaren but, to anybody without our interest,  it was just old blokes getting tearful about someone who died nearly (crikey ) 50 years ago . 

 

Whereas Rush was accessible to all , a fun watch even if Joanne had to shush me every time I said 'That's Cadwell !' . 

 

In any case we mythologise events , even if we were there . Some accounts of , for example , Brands '76 are flawed (not quite  everyone  was in love with Hunt ) and the toxic xenophobia at the heart of much Mansell Mania has been neatly airbrushed away .  Some get ,misty eyed  about 80s F3 (me included , some days) , ignoring the reality of another cold grey afternoon at Silverstone watching underpowered , overgrippy cars drone round for 30minutes in grid order without any overtaking except of Ronnie Grant as he was lapped .... 

[2F-001]

...  Some accounts of , for example , Brands '76 are flawed .... 

 

Likewise, Monza '67, or even Silverstone '69 (although, in both cases, in a somewhat less contentious way). But yes, sometimes the memories or historical perceptions of "folks like us" are less than 100% accurate.

 

We have to remember that this film was not made for the likes of us, it was (presumably) made to be a theatrical release with hopes of some success in a mainstream market.

I shall park my customary cynicism until I have seen it - or, at least, until someone whose views I respect or usually concur with has reported on it!.

 

I don't imagine those making such a such a film as this set out with a focused agenda to re-write history, though I agree that on occasion it may be appear to be a consequence. My only concerns, in a more general sense, are about the power and social penetration of such media enabling any distortions that do appear becoming widely accepted as 'fact'. But if we imagine that should be our major worry over the public perception of motorsport, then we really are living in a bubble!

 

Christian Bale (a very fine actor, I think; see 'The Prestige' for example) looks to be a good choice for Miles, don't you think?

Edited by 2F-001, 05 June 2019 - 07:37.

[E1pix]

Clarifying what I failed in saying yesterday...

Can some of you guys please stop bashing my country at every turn? It's quite unbecoming on a forum of adults.

[Vitesse2]

Clarifying what I failed in saying yesterday...

Can some of you guys please stop bashing my country at every turn? It's quite unbecoming on a forum of adults.

I guess it depends on whether one views Hollywoodland as part of the United States or somewhere different which is somewhat divorced from reality and sometimes has only a tenuous grip on the facts.

[2F-001]

I would hope that folks were taking a pop at Hollywood (or mass media 'generators' in general) rather than the US as a whole, but I suppose there may have been some wider insinuation that I - not being the target - may have missed. But I thought you, E1pix, made the point quite successfully!

 

 

Also, has a rather witty and self-deprecatory - but possibly misinterpreted - post been deleted from this thread? Or did I, with my warm blood, imagine it? 

 

edit:

To be clear, I meant just as likely to have been misinterpreted by yours truly!

Edited by 2F-001, 05 June 2019 - 16:37.

[E1pix]

Edit: Yes, posts were Modded out ;-)

I apologize if my comments were offensive to my many Brit friends here, Tony included!

My intent was to demonstrate that it's simply not cool. And there has been a long history here of comments inferring we're a bunch of idiots over here, which wouldn't sit well with other countrymen if done inversely. This has nothing to do with Hollywood, really, yet it is in my country and I am not alone in recognizing said bias.

Our commonality as racing lifers should be above this.

Edited by E1pix, 05 June 2019 - 17:19.

[Sterzo]

 More than a little unfair as we do exactly the same - see recent rewrites of history on Alan Turing , Stephen Hawking , Queen Anne and ..err.. Queen . I am relaxed about it - they are entertainments, not documentaries. 

This is entirely true, and there is a long and increasing list of dramatised versions of real events which "improve" the story to make it fit the dramatic arc required of fiction. It's also become acceptable to make programmes about living people, sometimes without their consent or co-operation.

 

I realise I'm urinating against the prevailing wind, but I wish they wouldn't. History of all kinds is difficult enough to access and understand without a torrent of commercially sponsored misrepresentation and inaccuracy.

[DogEarred]

I blame Benedict Arnold...

[404KF2]

The great Loyalist patriot!

[rl1856]

True, but they have raised it to an art form.

 

 

You mean like Young Victoria, Darkest Hour, Kings Speech, Suffragete, Mary Queen of Scots.......    

 

Targeted xenophobia is alive and well but there should be no place for it.

[Kpy]

Just looked at the cast - no Chris Amon character ?

 

Now, I know that the flick is all about Ken Miles, but how do you leave out one of the pivotal drivers in the Ford effort to win Le Mans ?? And the eventual winner with Bruce McLaren ???

 

 

Historical accuracy has never been a priority in Hollywood. I assume Amon has been replaced by an American. Pete Aron by any chance? Do McLaren and Hulme feature or have they also been replaced by Americans? Or is this a low budget production in which both McLaren and Miles drive solo for 24 hours?

 

I think I'll give it a miss and watch Grand Prix again. 

 

 

It would seem so. There’s a cast list in the IMDb link in post 2 above, and I can’t find any mention in it of either Amon or Hulme (although it includes important characters such as ‘female spectator’ and ‘hot dog vendor’).

Have a look here:

 

Amon, Hulme, McLaren, Gurney and Walt Hansgen are all represented.

[Tim Murray]

Yes indeed - the earlier cast listing we were discussing didn’t include some of them, but since then the IMDb listing has been expanded and they are now included. (See posts 10 and 11)

[Kpy]

Sorry Tim, I missed your early post pointing that out

[Tim Murray]

Some more posts have had to go. Please can we all wait at least until we’ve seen the film before condemning it as inaccurate. Many thanks.

[TennisUK]

I wonder how the input of Lola and Eric Broadly will be represented.

[Doug Nye]

Having just seen the trailer I was astonished to realise that actor Damon has actually been given the role of Carroll Shelby...for which he - surely - is palpably unsuited.

 

I could see him playing a Mark Donohue, or a Ronnie Bucknum, but Ole Shel? - who in his own right cut such a distinctive figure he could well have been straight out of central casting....

 

In contrast Bale seems pretty well suited to play Ken Miles - although they have not attempted to reflect the English engineer/driver's unique jaw geometry.  He naturally spoke out of the side of his mouth, to such a degree that some nicknamed him 'Side-bite'.  

 

I remember a British TV production which starred Rowan Atkinson as 'Tim' Birkin. He did the role reasonable justice, but absolutely avoided what was in period Sir Henry's absolutely characteristic stutter.  I can appreciate that it might have become tiresomely distracting if reproduced on screen - "B-B-B-Bentley..." and "Bah-bah-bah-Brooklands", etc - and I guess Ken Miles's peculiarity of speech was considered in the same light for Bale's representation of him.

 

Re stutters and stammers I am minded of a wonderful marque historian whom I once asked where one particular car lived at the time.  He replied "Oh it's in Kah-kah-kah-kah-kah", sigh...then another attempt... "Kah-kah-kah-kah...Oh ph--- it, PRESTON!"

 

DCN

[Vitesse2]

I remember a British TV production which starred Rowan Atkinson as 'Tim' Birkin. He did the role reasonable justice, but absolutely avoided what was in period Sir Henry's absolutely characteristic stutter.  I can appreciate that it might have become tiresomely distracting if reproduced on screen - "B-B-B-Bentley..." and "Bah-bah-bah-Brooklands", etc - and I guess Ken Miles's peculiarity of speech was considered in the same light for Bale's representation of him.

 

DCN

Ironically, Rowan actually suffered from a stutter as a child - which he overcame by acting. The letter B is actually one with which he has problems and he deliberately over-articulates it - see his pronunciation of the name 'Bob' in both Blackadder II and Blackadder Goes Forth.

 

I recall seeing an interview with either Richard Curtis or Ben Elton in which it was said that they deliberately tried to put names and words into scripts which they knew Rowan had difficulty with!

[kayemod]

Ironically, Rowan actually suffered from a stutter as a child - which he overcame by acting. The letter B is actually one with which he has problems and he deliberately over-articulates it - see his pronunciation of the name 'Bob' in both Blackadder II and Blackadder Goes Forth.

 

I recall seeing an interview with either Richard Curtis or Ben Elton in which it was said that they deliberately tried to put names and words into scripts which they knew Rowan had difficulty with!

 

 

Similarly with Colin Chapman, who had some difficulty with pronouncing the letter "R", his came out more like a "W". His secretaries sometimes re-wrote things he was going to have to read out in an attempt to disguise this slight impediment. I don't recall him having problems with any other letters.

[Glengavel]

I wonder how the input of Lola and Eric Broadly will be represented.

 

Scene - an idyllic English country cottage with a large garage (subtitles: SLOUGH, ENGLAND). Enter Eric Broadley (played by Kenneth More or John Gregson) accompanied by his Cockney mechanic (cameo by Michael Caine).

 

Eric (sighing): "Ah Nobby, nobody seems to believe in my new world-beating sports car concept".

Nobby: "Cor blimey guvnor, things ain't so bad. There's the big race next weekend, and I've heard there's a Mister Shelby lookin' for a new project."

[kayemod]

Scene - an idyllic English country cottage with a large garage (subtitles: SLOUGH, ENGLAND). Enter Eric Broadley (played by Kenneth More or John Gregson) accompanied by his Cockney mechanic (cameo by Michael Caine).

 

Eric (sighing): "Ah Nobby, nobody seems to believe in my new world-beating sports car concept".

Nobby: "Cor blimey guvnor, things ain't so bad. There's the big race next weekend, and I've heard there's a Mister Shelby lookin' for a new project."

 

 

Given that dialogue, the part of Nobby is tailor-made for Dick Van Dyke...

[David Birchall]

To get back to the movie in question I quite look forward to seeing it.  Christian Bale must be the only actor to portray two such different people as Dick Cheney and Ken Miles and actually look like them both!

 

And any movie that uses "Gimme Shelter" for soundtrack has something going for it 

Edited by David Birchall, 08 June 2019 - 22:43.

[Bob Riebe]

look up  -  Damon, Bale, to star in Ford vs. Ferrari movie -  on motorsport.com

 

Robert

As it is directed by the person who did the absolute pissant redo of 3:10 to Yuma, i will not waste money on it.

With two ultra--left dweebs playng lead roles, it is an insult two the people they play.

Edited by Bob Riebe, 09 June 2019 - 19:41.

[E1pix]

What a joy this thread's been.

[Myhinpaa]

Broadley/Lola and Slough will probably not even feature (!?), with some luck it will be mentioned near the end of the credits. 

 

Like in "U-571" where the two previous captures of enigma machines by British crews was seen as inconvenient and just ignored.

 

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0141926/

 

From the comments :

 

9 May 1941 HMS Bulldog and HMS Aubretia captured an enigma from U-110.

30 Oct. 1942 HMS Petard captures a weather cipher from U-559.

4 June 1944 U.S. Navy task group 22.3 captured an enigma from U-505.

 

Bob Riebe's comment above seems justified too, Damon seems unsuited to portraying Shelby but Bale might be more convincing as Miles.

Looking for footage of Miles on YouTube I had hoped to hear a delightful Brummy accent, but was disappointed as not much of it was left.

 

https://youtu.be/IQd0iJXOa9k  (Which was lucky, for Bale!

[ReWind]

With two ultra-left dweebs playing lead roles, it is an insult to the people they play.

I agree. A mass-murderer should only be played by an actor who has killed at least five innocent people. No fake performances, please.

[Releases tongue in cheek]

Edited by ReWind, 09 June 2019 - 09:43.