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#351 Myhinpaa

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Posted 17 December 2019 - 21:23

Apologies for going a bit OT, but want to share this photograph of John Whitmore testing at Goodwood in January '66 (?) with the Alan Mann "Lightweight" prototype GT40.

Seems Graham Hill was involved in testing it too. This was the car AMR entered for Le Mans in '66 https://www.racingsp...hoto/XGT-1.html

 

Tried to find a better photo of Whitmore in that 4-wheel drift at Fordwater but gave up, think it was used in an article in Motorsport about John Whitmore.



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#352 Macca

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Posted 18 December 2019 - 09:31

Thank you, guys - yes, what I'd found when searching was that it was p1012 which had been one of the cars at the test w/e and then came second at Spa.

 

This may have been taken at the race at LM: https://www.pinteres...18460495986983/

 

which is the only picture I've found. The car was probable left in the plain colours so it could be repainted if one of the eight race cars had needed replacing.

 

In it's subsequent career it led a hard life and now, like with so many other historic racing cars, there are two cars claiming the identity..... 

 

Paul M



#353 john winfield

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Posted 18 December 2019 - 09:37

I know this Mail Online article was discussed earlier, but I can't remember if it was linked. Anyway, here it is, with lots of good photos:

 

 https://www.dailymai...ce-victory.html



#354 red stick

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Posted 13 January 2020 - 19:26

Whatever its virtues or vices, it's become the first automobile racing movie to be nominated for an Oscar for "Best Picture."



#355 Doug Nye

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Posted 13 January 2020 - 23:21

Really????     :eek:

 

DCN



#356 red stick

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 04:28

Oscar voters move in ways so mysterious a legion of theologians would be kept busy . . .

#357 404KF2

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 06:00

And it's been profitable too.  That bodes well for more...perhaps.



#358 E1pix

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 06:19

YES!

That's the thing, whatever's good for (road) racing! Get that Oscar for PR, and Petit Le Mans might stack in 150K. Damn, we need it.

We sure don't want the next racing film to be Done with the Wind.

#359 john aston

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 07:54

Best Picture ? It hasn't been a great year for movies but I hadn't realised the 2019;pickings were quite so slim 



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#360 Geoff E

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 08:44

Best Picture ? It hasn't been a great year for movies but I hadn't realised the 2019;pickings were quite so slim 

 

I expect that somewhere there is a WW1 forum where the inadequacies and errors of 1917 have been done to death.



#361 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 12:28

And a Papal forum for The Two Pope's. Excellent film but with some very obvious historical embellishments or errors.

#362 E1pix

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 16:36

I have a soft spot for Pope John Paul, for appearing at World Youth Day in Denver, 1993.

We had permission to spend three nights photographing Denver from the Capitol Dome, literally bivouacing out on the perimeter balcony the third night, all night. Two blocks away was the Basilica, and inside of it, the sleeping Pope. Raised Catholic, my Missus was positively stunned by it all.

This could never happen today, sadly, but won't make any movie script.

#363 DCapps

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 18:58

I expect that somewhere there is a WW1 forum where the inadequacies and errors of 1917 have been done to death.

Now that you mention it, having taught several college classes on the Great War....



#364 brucemoxon

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Posted 22 January 2020 - 09:45

I've had my Annual Thought early this year. Or maybe it's last years?

 

I wonder if insiders get as annoyed about films like Top Gun or courtroom dramas?

 

I'll leave that here.

 

Good night.

 

 

BRM



#365 Tim Murray

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Posted 22 January 2020 - 11:46

They certainly do about courtroom dramas:

The Trial of Christine Keeler viewers were distracted last night by a major Stephen Ward court blunder

#366 Henri Greuter

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Posted 22 January 2020 - 11:56

For me this film would have been less painful to watch if hey had changed the names of the main people involved into names resembling the true personalities.

So much of the film only resembled the truth to some extend so why not having done the same with the names involved....

 

 

 Somthing like "Gort vs Gerrary" , or  "La Womans '66" ,   featuring Charles Sheavenby, Kevin Meters   etc



#367 john winfield

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Posted 22 January 2020 - 12:35

 

Crikey, how odd. I hope nobody banged any gavels.



#368 10kDA

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Posted 22 January 2020 - 12:42

For me this film would have been less painful to watch if hey had changed the names of the main people involved into names resembling the true personalities.

So much of the film only resembled the truth to some extend so why not having done the same with the names involved....

 

 

 Somthing like "Gort vs Gerrary" , or  "La Womans '66" ,   featuring Charles Sheavenby, Kevin Meters   etc

:rotfl: Henri - Don't get me started...!



#369 10kDA

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Posted 22 January 2020 - 12:56

I've had my Annual Thought early this year. Or maybe it's last years?

 

I wonder if insiders get as annoyed about films like Top Gun or courtroom dramas?

 

I'll leave that here.

 

Good night.

 

 

BRM

 

I suppose "Ford vs Ferrari" is an Antidote Movie, to counteract "Driven" or any Elvis movie which included cars with big numbers on them. "Top Gun" has been counteracted by movies like "Amelia" and major portions of "The Aviator". The symptoms have been addressed but there may be no 100% cure for exposure to scriptwriters.



#370 Glengavel

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Posted 22 January 2020 - 13:47

I've had my Annual Thought early this year. Or maybe it's last years?
 
I wonder if insiders get as annoyed about films like Top Gun or courtroom dramas?
 
I'll leave that here.
 
Good night.
 
 
BRM


Some people were reduced to incoherent rage by the brief presence of a non-period railway carriage in 'Dunkirk'.

#371 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 22 January 2020 - 14:53

I saw a YouTube video recently where the narrator very smugly pointed out 35 mistakes made by the animators of Frozen 2. Animation is quite amazing, rather than have a go at them for minor mistakes, applaud their initial brilliance was my response to it.
I suppose to put this in context, we may not be aware of all the compromises and complexities involved that stop the film being TNF-proof

#372 BRG

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Posted 22 January 2020 - 15:03

Some people were reduced to incoherent rage by the brief presence of a non-period railway carriage in 'Dunkirk'.

I have to admit that, when the first post-war series of 'Foyle's War' started, I was immediately alienated by the sight of a London Transport Routemaster bus, supposedly in 1946, many years before it's time.  Silly little things like that can completely dispel the sense of period they are trying to invoke and spoil the whole show.

 

If you know little about London buses other than their colour, you might not notice or care.



#373 kayemod

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Posted 22 January 2020 - 16:23

I expect that somewhere there is a WW1 forum where the inadequacies and errors of 1917 have been done to death.

In an oft repeated trailer for 1917 that's appearing on TV at the moment, my eyes saw only the very neat and deep vee-shaped "trench", very obviously JCB dug in dry chalk Salisbury Plain ground that the troops are attacking from, completely different from anything I've seen ever seen of Flanders in film, book or contemporary photographic records of that time. Real British trenches were almost always narrow, roughly dug steep-sided excavations in mostly muddy soil, sometimes wood duckboards along the bottom, but more often several inches of dirty rat infested water over endless mud, German trenches were usually rather more habitable-looking, often with wood-lined sides. Maybe the rather smart trench had been prepared for some special event like The Ideal Home Exhibition. If you want the truth, see a truly remarkable piece of work titled "They shall not grow old", 90 minutes of edited re-speeded, expertly colourised with believable added dialogue, film taken at the time, all genuine stuff from the archives of the Imperial War Museum. Dirty and dishevelled gap-toothed men with wild hair and scruffy uniforms, they were only issued with a single set of Army uniform that had to last for as long as they survived. All the 1917 actors will no doubt be in smart clothing, fresh faced actors with perfect dentition etc. I imagine that a representation of what it was really like would be too shocking for today's audiences,

 

That said, from what I've read and heard, it's one of the very, very few films from the last 20 or 30 years or so that I would like to see, and I'd be very pleased if my fears expressed above were proved wrong.



#374 D-Type

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Posted 22 January 2020 - 17:28

I grew up in Kenya.  After 50-60 years I still remember the peals of laughter whenever a film set in the country was screened.  No Hollywood director ever came close to getting it right.  But, having said that, they were still entertaining.


Edited by D-Type, 22 January 2020 - 21:00.


#375 john aston

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Posted 22 January 2020 - 18:09

I have to admit that, when the first post-war series of 'Foyle's War' started, I was immediately alienated by the sight of a London Transport Routemaster bus, supposedly in 1946, many years before it's time.  Silly little things like that can completely dispel the sense of period they are trying to invoke and spoil the whole show.

 

If you know little about London buses other than their colour, you might not notice or care.

You are aware that Routemaster is now a generic term for anachronisms in The Sunday Times TV guide?

 

I can live with buses being wrong - it is incorrect  dialogue usage that really grates . I  always think that it is extraordinary that nobody on set screams 'but they didn't say 'who knew' (or 'go figure' or 'it is what it is ' in 1923 '?

 

1917 - I will go and see it , if only because I enjoy Sam Mendes films. But the reawakened national obsession with  WW1 as entertainment is curious  to say the least  .  .



#376 Henri Greuter

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Posted 22 January 2020 - 18:58

:rotfl: Henri - Don't get me started...!

Join me, I wanna have a laugh as well.

 

another main feature for:  Lenny Poope



#377 kayemod

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Posted 22 January 2020 - 19:58

I can live with buses being wrong - it is incorrect  dialogue usage that really grates . I  always think that it is extraordinary that nobody on set screams 'but they didn't say 'who knew' (or 'go figure' or 'it is what it is ' in 1923 '?

 

1917 - I will go and see it , if only because I enjoy Sam Mendes films. But the reawakened national obsession with  WW1 as entertainment is curious  to say the least  .  .

 

"This is 1917, end of!"



#378 Nemo1965

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Posted 24 January 2020 - 11:11

I've had my Annual Thought early this year. Or maybe it's last years?

 

I wonder if insiders get as annoyed about films like Top Gun or courtroom dramas?

 

I'll leave that here.

 

Good night.

 

 

BRM

 

I was a teaching pro (tennis) for seven years and before that a court-room reporter for four years, before that I was a journalist specialized in current affairs. I watched most films about and/or with tennis and my fair share of courtroom-drama's and the likes. Most unreal twists don't bother me. My answer to your question: I am very much in favor of 'suspension of disbelief' when watching a movie. But the moment the makers pretend they are more than entertaining the viewer, but try to educate the audience or pretend to do so, I have every right to bristle about factual or technical inaccuracies. Then I get annoyed, yes. Movies like JFK (Oliver Stone), or books like the Da Vinci-code annoy me. It is proven humbug, so drop the pretense, please.

 

Regarding Ford vs Ferrari, as another poster says: the moment you use names of people that really existed, that gives you another responsibility. I have not seen the film yet, but to have the balls to use the name of Ken Miles and Caroll Shelby, it is FORBIDDEN to have racing drivers change gear at the straight and smash the pedal to the bottom to gain super-speed.



#379 10kDA

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Posted 24 January 2020 - 23:38

Some people were reduced to incoherent rage by the brief presence of a non-period railway carriage in 'Dunkirk'.

Well, not incoherent rage, but I did commit some incoherent laughter when watching "Midway". Wait, there was a "Midway" that used real airplanes, 40+ years ago, right? So I mean "Midway II" from last year. Ships in Pearl Harbor pre-Dec 7 1941 looking as grimy and rusty as a tramp steamer from a Hope+Crosby+Lamour Road picture? In a peacetime Navy? This was less authentic than getting the aircraft insignia wrong in those same scenes.



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#380 raceannouncer2003

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Posted 25 January 2020 - 06:47

Ford v Ferrari started last Friday at the IMAX here in Victoria, BC, Canada.  Phil Dauphinee and I put on a display of models/slot cars, etc. on the Friday and Saturday nights...

 

IMG-0470.jpg

 

IMG-0471.jpg

 

IMG-0473.jpg

 

Vince H.


Edited by raceannouncer2003, 25 January 2020 - 06:48.


#381 red stick

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Posted 25 January 2020 - 16:42

Ford v Ferrari started last Friday at the IMAX here in Victoria, BC, Canada.  Phil Dauphinee and I put on a display of models/slot cars, etc. on the Friday and Saturday nights...

 

IMG-0470.jpg

 

IMG-0471.jpg

 

IMG-0473.jpg

 

Vince H.

 

Apart from interest in the displays, did it generate any good discussions with the uninitiated?  Or did you mostly attract people already familiar with the story?



#382 Sterzo

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Posted 25 January 2020 - 19:15

...I am very much in favor of 'suspension of disbelief' when watching a movie. But the moment the makers pretend they are more than entertaining the viewer, but try to educate the audience or pretend to do so, I have every right to bristle about factual or technical inaccuracies...

 

Regarding Ford vs Ferrari, as another poster says: the moment you use names of people that really existed, that gives you another responsibility. I have not seen the film yet, but to have the balls to use the name of Ken Miles and Caroll Shelby, it is FORBIDDEN to have racing drivers change gear at the straight and smash the pedal to the bottom to gain super-speed.

I could not improve on the way you put it, Nemo.

 

Of course, if anyone wishes to make a film about the Apollo missions proving the moon was made of green cheese, than they can do so. If people enjoy it, best of luck to them. However, it will not satisfy me and I'll avoid it. The Imitation Game and The Duchess were examples of films which not only misrepresented history, but made the stories less interesting than the truth. It sounds like Ford v Ferrari does the same. One example: what better gift for a script-writer than a legendary team-owner whose life is racing but never attends the races! Yet they spoilt it by having him turn up. Doh!



#383 DCapps

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Posted 25 January 2020 - 19:50

As a friend of mine who taught the history of cinema often reminded me in response to my frequent eye-rolling and deep sighs at times during movies depicting events from the past pointed out, "suspension of belief" is often an important element in the cinema. I fully accept the idea that there are times when Art can and should make the picking of nits something a bit silly at times and even an endeavor that is simply not relevant to the cinema experience for the vast majority of those in the audience. In more than a few instances I have been quite willing to accept that the "suspension of belief" is a Good Thing when it comes to cinema. I can easily enjoy Apocalypse Now despite its many problems with the reality of the Viet-Nam War. They Shall Not Grow Old was something of a surprise to me. I am in no way shape or form a fan of colorization. Yet, it actually seems to work in that instance. I would have few qualms using parts of it in class on the Great War were I still teaching. I have yet to see 1917, but what I have seen of the trenches in the trailers and the terrain being used scarcely resembles that of the time and place being depicted. It is interesting to note that a number of the movies on the Great War made in the late-1920s/early-1930s actually do a fair job regarding the trenches. That there were those who actually served in the trenches and the related terrain helping build them may have been a factor, of course.

 

As has been pointed out, there are times when knowledge -- or at least an abundance of information, which is not the same thing... -- can cloud one's vision when it comes to cinema and other forms of Art. If you wish to have your brain meltdown, do not even try to view the form of cinema known as the Western since there are very few (and they are far in-between) examples of that genre that come even close to capturing the reality of that world. As an aside, it was often interesting to note how much a television series, Deadwood, got quite a bit correct. Even the much-lambasted Heaven's Gate captured certain aspects of that world rather world. 

 

Of course, there is also the minor issue that sometimes we -- defined as you will -- are not the intended audience for a movie or other work of Art.... 



#384 E1pix

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Posted 25 January 2020 - 21:13

Thanks for refocusing the vast sea of contrast between art and documentaries, Don.

 

One's entertainment, one's education. The former might well bore us to pillows if focusing too much on the latter.



#385 404KF2

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Posted 25 January 2020 - 22:07

Ford v Ferrari started last Friday at the IMAX here in Victoria, BC, Canada.  Phil Dauphinee and I put on a display of models/slot cars, etc. on the Friday and Saturday nights...

 

IMG-0470.jpg

 

IMG-0471.jpg

 

IMG-0473.jpg

 

Vince H.

Cool, I saw it in Nanaimo but IMAX shoulds much better.



#386 brucemoxon

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Posted 26 January 2020 - 01:46

I thought of something else - the 7000 RPM thing reminded me of the intro to The Right Stuff - about the sound barrier being 'a wall in the sky' and all that crap.

 

 

 

BRM



#387 E1pix

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Posted 26 January 2020 - 02:27

But The Right Stuff was a great movie anyway.

#388 brucemoxon

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Posted 27 January 2020 - 08:35

But The Right Stuff was a great movie anyway.

Exactly.

 

BRM



#389 GreenMachine

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Posted 31 January 2020 - 07:05

I'll just leave this here … :wave:

Hmm, I'll have another try

https://www.theguard...t-picture-oscar

#390 john aston

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Posted 31 January 2020 - 07:44

How I loathe the lazy 'Petrolhead ' label the Guardian , and so many others use . It connotes the sort of idiot who takes Top Gear seriously,  agonises over the lap times of another overpowered hot hatch at the (yaawn ) 'Ring but who couldn't tell a P4 from a B8 and who thinks that speed hillclimbs  involve trainers and sportswear....



#391 john winfield

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Posted 31 January 2020 - 09:56

Thanks for the link, GM. That's the best explanation I've read as to why the film has popular appeal. Chimes well with the posts above.

(Agree, John, 'petrolhead', ugh!)

#392 MCS

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Posted 31 January 2020 - 14:03

Interesting piece and I was wondering the other day if it's one of those movies that you will enjoy even more in a few years - this based on knowing what you will be getting and having hopefully got over the factual misrepresentations?

 

By then somebody might have edited out a few of the gear-shifting and accelerator scenes...



#393 E1pix

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Posted 31 January 2020 - 16:11

Interesting piece and I was wondering the other day if it's oBy then somebody might have edited out a few of the gear-shifting and accelerator scenes...

Or tripled them for the network tv "edit." :-)

#394 MCS

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Posted 01 February 2020 - 13:30

Ha ha.  Okay, Eric - I will give you that one!

 

Of course, if it does get best picture, or significant attention, then it will possibly re-appear on the Big Screen, in which case I may just have to see it again.



#395 Giraffe

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Posted 02 February 2020 - 12:35

If you think that we TNFers are sticklers for detail, listening to Kermode & Mayo's most recent film review on BBC Five Live I heard us being well and truly trumped.

 

The film in question was "1917" and the listener was clearly an ardent "Twitcher" or Ornithologist. He was complaining that the birdsong featured in one scene was totally inaccurate and belonged to a species of bird that had never ventured within 1000 miles of where the film was set....... We are not alone.... :smoking:



#396 10kDA

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Posted 02 February 2020 - 13:30

If you think that we TNFers are sticklers for detail, listening to Kermode & Mayo's most recent film review on BBC Five Live I heard us being well and truly trumped.

 

The film in question was "1917" and the listener was clearly an ardent "Twitcher" or Ornithologist. He was complaining that the birdsong featured in one scene was totally inaccurate and belonged to a species of bird that had never ventured within 1000 miles of where the film was set....... We are not alone.... :smoking:

 

Regarding movies and TV inaccuracies - while picky, TNF'ers are kind compared to commenters on most of the aviation forums I frequent. :stoned:

 



#397 2F-001

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Posted 02 February 2020 - 13:40

On a similar theme…

 

I was told of a website page upon which people discuss gaffes, continuity errors and suchlike (may have been Imdb, I can’t recall). I’m sure it can provide some mild amusement, but someone was highlighting a film scene, supposedly in a hotel in India. One of the protagonists was in the bathroom with the fluorescent light on. The writer claimed that this couldn’t possibly be in India because he (I assume it was he) could hear the mains hum from the light and it was clearly at 60Hz instead of 50…  

 

I don’t know if it is really possibly to detect such a difference on a movie soundtrack, but it seemed to take nitpicking to new enjoyment-spoiling heights! 



#398 10kDA

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Posted 02 February 2020 - 13:56

On a similar theme…

 

I was told of a website page upon which people discuss gaffes, continuity errors and suchlike (may have been Imdb, I can’t recall). I’m sure it can provide some mild amusement, but someone was highlighting a film scene, supposedly in a hotel in India. One of the protagonists was in the bathroom with the fluorescent light on. The writer claimed that this couldn’t possibly be in India because he (I assume it was he) could hear the mains hum from the light and it was clearly at 60Hz instead of 50…  

 

I don’t know if it is really possibly to detect such a difference on a movie soundtrack, but it seemed to take nitpicking to new enjoyment-spoiling heights! 

Once exposed on the all-powerful Forum Of Film Fakeness, I heard the producer made the Foley artist refund a portion of his salary...



#399 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 02 February 2020 - 14:42

There's always going to be niggles, errors, things out of place, etc. My issue with Ford v Ferrari, beyond how over-done/over-acted it was at times, was that the entire massive plot point of Ken Miles not racing at Le Mans was made up. Might as well have the 917s show up if we're just going to drama it up.

 

Simplifications, composite characters, etc. I get it. You have budget limits, you have to get a movie within 2-3 hours. You cast certain people because having a Name in the role helps get the movie made to begin with. But having a third of your movie be the *opposite* of reality is weird. It'd be like if in 1917 people win battles that they didn't in the real world. 



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#400 john aston

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Posted 03 February 2020 - 07:43

If you think that we TNFers are sticklers for detail, listening to Kermode & Mayo's most recent film review on BBC Five Live I heard us being well and truly trumped.

 

The film in question was "1917" and the listener was clearly an ardent "Twitcher" or Ornithologist. He was complaining that the birdsong featured in one scene was totally inaccurate and belonged to a species of bird that had never ventured within 1000 miles of where the film was set....... We are not alone.... :smoking:

No indeed . As a fisherman (and therefore river addict ) I was spitting feathers when  our hero plunged into a wild and rocky spate river , complete with bloody waterfall , which looked like the upper Tees - and probably was as some of the film was shot at the Tees barrage canoe course  . You don't get rivers like that in chalky northern France .....

 

As a film it had its moments but I found it overrated and unengaging ..