13 replies to this topic

[Roger Clark]

The Coopers, father and son, both had the middle name Newton. Was there any reason, a family connection perhaps, for this?

[Vitesse2]

Charles Cooper's father was also called Charles Newton Cooper (1860-1927). He's described on Charles's marriage record as an actor and his probate record suggests he was also known as Charles Renad (stage name?) - he was married in Paris. His father was named Frederick Harwood Cooper, but I can't see any other Newtons; Frederick's wife's maiden name was Barrett.

 

There seems to be a connection to the dramatist Frederick Fox Cooper, whose biography Nothing extenuate: the life of Frederick Fox Cooper was written by his son Frederick Renad Cooper and published by Barrie & Rockliff in 1964. Perhaps that might give further clues?

[Roger Clark]

Interesting. Doug Nye’s Cooper Cars says Charles’ father was Charles Renard Cooper and used the stage name Charles Renard. Renard, not Renad. Doug also says that Charles Newton’s mother, who died young, was Franco-Spanish so Newton is unlikely to have come from her, even if Charles Newton’s father was not also Charles Newton.

Edited by Roger Clark, 27 July 2019 - 11:08.

[Vitesse2]

This is part of a theatrical review from The Era (London, England), Saturday, January 23, 1892; Issue 2783. Not only Charles Renad, but apparently one of his brothers too - the snippet view of Nothing extenuate on Google Books tells us that five of Frederick Fox Cooper's sons were actors:

 

 

I wonder if the change to Renad was to avoid confusion with the contemporaneous French engineer Charles Renard?

[Vitesse2]

On the 1861 and 1871 census Frederick Harwood Cooper is described as a comedian. Charles Newton Cooper was the second son - his elder brother (born 1859) was called Reynard - and by 1871 he had three younger siblings; Anne Julia[?] Cooper, Frederick Donald Cooper and Harwood Lovall Cooper. I can't find Charles on the 1881 or 1891 censuses (he married in Paris in 1893). Reynard Cooper died in 1892 - he was apparently an artist. So perhaps his brothers adopted a version of his name in tribute?

 

In 1901 Charles and Frederick can both be found as members of the Liverpool Dramatic Lodge of the United Grand Lodge of England Freemason Membership Registers, 1751-1921 - Charles's address is in Tooting, Frederick's in Aigburth. Both described as theatrical managers.

 

Charles (born 1860) is on the 1911 census, as are his second wife Lucy (age 28, originally from Newcastle) and his children Charlotte (age 19), Charles (age 17) and his twin sister - she is listed as Rosette on the census form, although the Wiki article, possibly sourced to Doug's book, calls her Judy. Charlotte is Lettie according to Wikipedia. All three were born in Paris - Charlotte/Lettie is described as a milliner, Rosette/Judy a milliner's apprentice and Charles as an engineer's apprentice.

 

Still no clue on where Newton comes from though!

[Doug Nye]

The Charlie Cooper I remember - and the John Cooper I knew - were only concerned by spelling when it came to the payee lettering on a cheque...

 

And - from memory - John quoted the sometime family name 'Renard' to me, NEVER 'Renad'...possibly a simple error, possibly an historic misspelling?

 

DCN

[Vitesse2]

The play I mentioned above had previously been produced and performed in Paris in 1891, by 'les frères Renad'. See 'Courrier des Théatres', top left:

 

https://gallica.bnf....les Renad".zoom

 

The brothers had also performed together in 1888 in a 'féerie-ballet' called Pied du Mouton, playing characters called Pif, Paf and Pouf:

 

https://gallica.bnf....les Renad".zoom

 

Doesn't get us any closer to 'why Newton?' but it does tend to suggest that John Cooper was in error, perhaps simply because Renad isn't exactly a usual name.

 

Probate records for 'Frederick Donald Cooper or Frederick Renad' show that his home address at the time of his death in a Guildford nursing home on May 30th 1939 was The Cinema, Woodbridge Road and Flat 5 Woodbridge House - both also in Guildford. Probate was granted to a chartered accountant called Frederick Renad Cooper - presumably his son; so the V&A is in error too, as the biography of Frederick Fox Cooper was written by his great-grandson, not his son.

[cooper997]

As far as I'm aware the Newton tradition continues with JNC's son Michael - John Michael Newton Cooper. With second name Michael named after a then, future World Champion. Who had done well in Cooper-Bristol. Not stopping handing down of names there, Michael's son is Charles. Although  I'm not sure if he carries the Newton middle name. 

 

Also since the passing of his father, if you ask Michael for an autograph you'll probably get 'John Cooper' that's certainly how things were at the 2002 Australian GP.

 

Stephen

[Doug Nye]

Re 'Newton' - Mike Cooper tells me he hasn't a clue where it came from - always assumed the family was distantly related to Sir Isaac...

 

He also has a book "...written by Henry Fox Cooper in1805 called 'Poems Dedicated to her Grace the Duchess of Manchester'. So I really don’t know..."

 

DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 28 July 2019 - 09:17.

[Tim Murray]

Here’s the book’s dedication to the Duchess, dated March 1805, as reproduced by Google Books:

https://books.google...chester&f=false

The Duchess at the time was Susan Montagu, née Gordon, who is claimed to have run off with a footman after becoming estranged from her husband:

https://en.m.wikiped...s_of_Manchester

http://thepeerage.com/p1123.htm#i11228

I couldn’t find a connection in any of this to the name Newton.

[Geoff E]

At his 1855 marriage to Emma Barrett, Frederick Harwood Cooper named his father as Frederick Fox Cooper.

 

https://www.familyse...03/1:1:N6XC-19K

[Vitesse2]

My guess would be that the Newton bit might come from Emma's side of the family, but apart from her being born in Birmingham I couldn't get any further. There are at least two Emma Barretts from Birmingham born around the right time, although I'm not sure that either of the ones I found is the right one. [I blame that Jane Austen ]

[Geoff E]

There are at least two Emma Barretts from Birmingham born around the right time, although I'm not sure that either of the ones I found is the right one.

 

I suspect she is the one found in St Albans in 1841 and 1851 ... living with grandparents.  At least one of those in Birmingham had a father called William ... the one who married Cooper in 1855 claimed her father was called George Barrett.  

[Alan Lewis]

(Briefly) reviving this old thread because today (Monday) is the centenary of the birth of J.N. Cooper CBE.

Which is worth a mention on TNF, I think.