62 replies to this topic

[NoForumForOldPole]

I was watching this:

 

https://youtu.be/Pz_nqRD8yCQ?t=391

 

and all of the sudden felt very old as it is claimed that Max Verstappen cannot drive manual. All this clutch and stick nonsense with H shift pattern I guess you don't get those in computer games anymore so I wonder if Norris, Albon or Stroll has ever occasion to use them. Defo none of them competitively raced with them.

 

Edited by NoForumForOldPole, 04 August 2019 - 11:11.

[Beamer]

They're European. Most cars have manual. Even grandma drives manual

[NoForumForOldPole]

Who Stroll European?

 

Anyway, I am not too sure that even new M3 comes with H pattern manual and clutch

 

My 14-year old did not know manual window winder handle. And I found out that Lorenzo passed his motorcycle test after becoming World Champion. So it is not so unbelievable these young boys have never driven H-pattern manual with clutch.

Edited by NoForumForOldPole, 03 August 2019 - 11:08.

[Ivanhoe]

What Ricciardo said was nonsense, you still get your driving lessons and exames in a car with manual transmission in Europe. You can do it for automatic transmission but then you’re not allowed to drive manual.

[ANF]

I think Norris was asked that question at Goodwood... Now let's see if I can find it.

I couldn't. But I think the answer was yes, in his road car.

Edited by ANF, 03 August 2019 - 11:36.

[Kalmake]

The might have never raced anything manual. Even F4 isn't manual.

[muramasa]

In Japan manual is almost extinction.

Once you master manual it's fun to drive esp on twisty mountainous roads. Haven't driven manual for long time tho, I miss manual.

 

What pisses me off is that many or perhaps most Japanese dont know about lower gears of automatic and how to use it. I use automatic's lower gears a lot for deceleration and needless to say it's critical to use the engine brake on long down slopes like when coming down mountain but many people dont know it, sheesh.

[Cliff]

Nah, everyone in Europe drives manual. You can't even get a proper license without mastering it... 

[Jazza]

How many top model cars are H pattern manual? Most luxury cars are auto and most performance cars are paddle shift.

The average European citizen may drive manual, but Max is the son of an F1 driver. He has probably never been in a car more than 6 months old that didn’t cost over 100K euros.

[PayasYouRace]

Dan is obviously having a little joke at his former teammate's expense.

 

Max can drive a manual, as seen where he takes a DB5 for a spin.

 

 

Perhaps the OP should have done a little research.

[muramasa]

According to Japan police data, nowadays more than 60% of new license is automatic exclusive (so those people are not allow to drive manual transmission cars, well they cannot anyway if they havent learnt how to operate the manual)

https://www.npa.go.j...suu/menkyo.html

 

I've never seen any manual car for normal roadcars sold in Japan recently or for long time, manual is practically dead in Japon

[Marklar]

I mean even if it was in theory possible I cant imagine that a racing driver would miss out on the fun to drive manual cars.

[muramasa]

Even if those younger racing drivers have practically no chance to drive manual car due to circumstance like in Japan, perhaps it wouldn't take them even an hour to master manual anyway

[Tsarwash]

How many top model cars are H pattern manual? Most luxury cars are auto and most performance cars are paddle shift.

The average European citizen may drive manual, but Max is the son of an F1 driver. He has probably never been in a car more than 6 months old that didn’t cost over 100K euros.

I don't think that Jos ever made that much money in his F1 career and I'm pretty sure that Max was not born with a silver spoon in his mouth.

[EightGear]

I remember seeing a video of Max driving his company car in his Toro Rosso days: an ordinary Renault Clio.

[Imperial]

What is the original OP referring to?

Race cars or road cars (in which case the thread has zilch to do with racing)?

[NoForumForOldPole]

I just realised how old I was and wanted to share my thoughts with fellow racing fans on discovery that nobody drives manuals these days and perhaps these young drivers dont even know how to drive them which is astonishing, thats all.

Edited by NoForumForOldPole, 03 August 2019 - 12:54.

[Sterzo]

Have you driven cars with a "crash" gearbox, that is to say with no syncromesh at all; or as no doubt many on the forum have, cars with syncromesh on second gear upwards but not on first? Or are you really, really old, in which case you'll have driven cars with a lever on the steering wheel to vary the ignition timing? Just trying to find out how Old a Pole you are.

[NoForumForOldPole]

38 lol - very old for F1 standards yhese days

Edited by NoForumForOldPole, 03 August 2019 - 13:01.

[PayasYouRace]

I bet most drivers today don’t know how to properly stoke a firebox to maintain proper steam pressure either. It’s so easy for them with these internal combustion engines.

[Jazza]

I don't think that Jos ever made that much money in his F1 career and I'm pretty sure that Max was not born with a silver spoon in his mouth.

He is still a multi millionaire. A decade of F1 drives, personal sponsorship, media appearances and interviews, plus various activities after F1 (eg. A1GP), adds up.

Max may not have grown up with a Lance Stroll quality of silver spoon, but he sure as hell didn't grow up in a typical middle class suburb.

Edited by Jazza, 03 August 2019 - 13:02.

[NoForumForOldPole]

I bet most drivers today don’t know how to properly stoke a firebox to maintain proper steam pressure either. It’s so easy for them with these internal combustion engines.

yeah whatever, not really relevant and a bit mocking the subject, dont you think?

[Clatter]

Surely at least some of the lower series that they have come up through use manual gearboxes.

[PayasYouRace]

yeah whatever, not really relevant and a bit mocking the subject, dont you think?

I already put a serious answer earlier in the thread.

[Sterzo]

38 lol - very old for F1 standards yhese days

 

What, NoForumForYoungPole - you were a ground effects baby! Some of us date from before downforce was discovered.

 

Surely at least some of the lower series that they have come up through use manual gearboxes.

Yes, many of the UK drivers have come up through Ginetta Juniors, although it's a sequential box not an H-shift.

Edited by Sterzo, 03 August 2019 - 13:19.

[NoForumForOldPole]

What, NoForumForYoungPole - you were a ground effects baby! Some of us date from before downforce was discovered.

 

 

I know but those youngsters in F1 used to be my age (Kimi, Fernando) now days they don't know how to drive stick!

Edited by NoForumForOldPole, 03 August 2019 - 13:23.

[PayasYouRace]

I know but those youngsters in F1 used to be my age (Kimi, Fernando) now days they don't know how to drive stick!

Except they do.

[NoForumForOldPole]

I already put a serious answer earlier in the thread.

 

 That makes it alright then.

 

Except they do.

 

[PayasYouRace]

That makes it alright then.
 

 

If you’re going to ask a stupid question, expect stupid answers.

[NoForumForOldPole]

If you’re going to ask a stupid question, expect stupid answers.

 

No such thing as stupid question. 

 

"There are naive questions, tedious questions, ill-phrased questions, questions put after inadequate self-criticism. But every question is a cry to understand the world."

 

Ohhh hateful people.

[BRG]

I remember seeing a video of Max driving his company car in his Toro Rosso days: an ordinary Renault Clio.

Ah, but was it an auto?  We need to know.  Apparently.

[pdac]

I remember seeing a piece with David Coulthard being interviewed about 10 or 15 years ago, They were travelling around. I remember he and the interviewer got into a car and Couldhard said that he could not drive it because it was a manual and he hadn't driven a manual car since he was a kid.

[BRG]

I remember seeing a piece with David Coulthard being interviewed about 10 or 15 years ago, They were travelling around. I remember he and the interviewer got into a car and Coulthard said that he could not drive it because it was a manual and he hadn't driven a manual car since he was a kid.

He has obviously got some practice in since then, as he raced and won in a Merc Gullwing at the Good wood Members Meeting this spring.  And that was definitely NOT an auto.

[pdac]

How many top model cars are H pattern manual? Most luxury cars are auto and most performance cars are paddle shift.

The average European citizen may drive manual, but Max is the son of an F1 driver. He has probably never been in a car more than 6 months old that didn’t cost over 100K euros.

 

I think your first line applies even in Europe (certainly seems to in the UK). If you look at the second-hand car market, it's extremely difficult to find a lot of car models with manual transmission.

[StevoCBR]

I've seen loads of current/recent F1 drivers, driving old manual F1 cars.  For example Lewis in the MP4/4 at Goodwood FOS I think, Massa a 312T at Firono (?) and loads of similar occasions.   They still have skill to drive manual cars if they get the chance.

[ArrowsLivery]

They could probably drive manual but I don’t think they could competitively race with it without practice.

[JeePee]

I guess you don't get those in computer games anymore so I wonder if Norris, Albon or Stroll has ever used them (which is 20 percent of current grid).

If there are any F1 journalist out there reading this - please ask them!

You can race your sim games with an H pattern shifter and set it up so you must use heel/toe downshifts to be fast.

But come on guys. Let's not pretend driving a manual is rocket science. Your grandma could do it. F1 drivers can too.

[Tim Murray]

I remember seeing a piece with David Coulthard being interviewed about 10 or 15 years ago, They were travelling around. I remember he and the interviewer got into a car and Couldhard said that he could not drive it because it was a manual and he hadn't driven a manual car since he was a kid.

He has obviously got some practice in since then, as he raced and won in a Merc Gullwing at the Good wood Members Meeting this spring. And that was definitely NOT an auto.

In the early ‘90s he did a series of track tests for Autosport. One was definitely of a Maserati 250F, and I’m pretty sure that some of the others were also older cars with manual gear changing.

[wheadon1985]

I know George Russell can drive manual!!

He was doing some one off drives to gain licence signatures in the UK during the 2014 season.

His first race was in a CTCRC race at Donington driving a Peugeot 206. First time he sat in the car in the paddock, he told the team he’d never driven a car before and had no clue how to use the clutch or change gear! The team manager popped his head in the door, showed him how to change gear and how the clutch worked. Cue a few goes at finding the bite point in the paddock followed and then with trepidation he was sent out to qualify.

George put the car on pole for both races, took both wins and set fastest lap of the day in his class. We all knew the boy was the real deal after witnessing that.

[Clatter]

I think your first line applies even in Europe (certainly seems to in the UK). If you look at the second-hand car market, it's extremely difficult to find a lot of car models with manual transmission.

 

Maybe in the more expensive classes, but in general I think there are still far more manuals than autos around. Many just don't want to pay the extra for the auto.

[Tsarwash]

This entire thread is based on a bullshit presumption with no evidence. 

[Ev0d3vil]

What Ricciardo said was nonsense, you still get your driving lessons and exames in a car with manual transmission in Europe. You can do it for automatic transmission but then you’re not allowed to drive manual.

Same in Singapore as well! Sadly manual cars are a rare breed these days. It sucks you know.

[Jazza]

This entire thread is based on a bullshit presumption with no evidence.

It was simply a question, and not one that is that unbelievable.

Since the 90’s most race car series have moved to sequential. Except for NASCAR almost every race series has been sequential for the last 15 years. Most young drivers have therefore never raced manual.

Over the last twenty years road cars have gone the same way. Supercars or luxury cars will not have a manual option. Electric or hybrid the same. Most medium to large SUV, people movers, or family cars will be auto only. Essentially the only thing with a manual these says will be small hatch backs, entry level sports cars (e.g 86), or base medium sized family cars (and all these will have auto options or even possibly sequential for a performance model).

When you look at auto trends for the last 20 years, a young driver never driving a manual is not impossible. It’s no more crazy than a driver Vettel's age never having driven a crash gearbox or a car with a manual choke. So even if Verstappen, Noris, Russel, etc have all driven manual, in the next several years it’s almost guaranteed that there will be a young driver who hasn’t. It’s no way an attack on their ability for never using increasingly rare and outdated tech and simply a consequence of the age they were born into.

[V8 Fireworks]

Surely at least some of the lower series that they have come up through use manual gearboxes.

 

Formula Ford uses a Hewland 4-speed H-pattern manual,    however most drivers race in Formula Renault instead these days... 

 

 

They could probably drive manual but I don’t think they could competitively race with it without practice.

 

I'm sure they would be fine.

 

Once upon a time, every supercar was manual, those were the days. 

https://youtu.be/lYjxFIyO0QQ?t=421

Edited by V8 Fireworks, 04 August 2019 - 07:17.

[Murl]

He is still a multi millionaire. A decade of F1 drives, personal sponsorship, media appearances and interviews, plus various activities after F1 (eg. A1GP), adds up.

Max may not have grown up with a Lance Stroll quality of silver spoon, but he sure as hell didn't grow up in a typical middle class suburb.

 

He grew up with Jos as his dad.

 

No one would ever accuse Jos of being middle class...

[Imperial]

I still don't think everyone is talking about the same thing in this thread.

There's people saying it's nonsense and that most road cars and road car drivers are manual, but getting replies saying that'a rubbish because most race series are still manual.

The OP is a proper mess and needs an edit to be clear on what this discussion is about.

It DID seemingly start talking about road cars, but then that has no business being on the RC forum.

[taz]

I remember seeing a video of Max driving his company car in his Toro Rosso days: an ordinary Renault Clio.

During his early Toro Rosso days he didn't even have an actual driving license. He got it in Belgium, when he became 18 years old. Driving a manual during the test here is kind of obligatory.

But if you get your driving license with an automatic, it will be mentioned on your license that you're not allowed to drive a manual.

 

Soon after he got his license i think he bought a Porsche 911 GT2 RS, a Mercedes AMG C63 S and i read he now also owns a Ferrari 488 Pista

[GrumpyYoungMan]

Also off topic but that is also why young drivers crash a lot after passing there tests as they learn in brand new cars and then get a very car without all the ADAS...

[Heyli]

Dan is obviously having a little joke at his former teammate's expense.

 

Max can drive a manual, as seen where he takes a DB5 for a spin.

 

 

Perhaps the OP should have done a little research.

So he can even drive a manual with the "wrong" hand!

[Gorma]

When you look at auto trends for the last 20 years, a young driver never driving a manual is not impossible. It’s no more crazy than a driver Vettel's age never having driven a crash gearbox or a car with a manual choke. So even if Verstappen, Noris, Russel, etc have all driven manual, in the next several years it’s almost guaranteed that there will be a young driver who hasn’t. It’s no way an attack on their ability for never using increasingly rare and outdated tech and simply a consequence of the age they were born into.

Nothing is impossible, but the kind of people who let their kids race and support it are rarely the type of people who will let their kid get a license that does not allow then to drive a manual. Maybe in a couple of decades when we all drive electric vehicles it will be diffefrent. There are still a ton of racing series where you will drive a manual. Manual cars are not going away until combustion engines are going away and that is not going to happen in a while.

 

It is a different thing in US obviously where the license is a bit too easy to get.