Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

2019 Mid-Season Driver Rankings


  • Please log in to reply
308 replies to this topic

#1 Marklar

Marklar
  • Member

  • 31,953 posts
  • Joined: May 15

Posted 04 August 2019 - 16:07

Summer break, you know how this goes 

My ranking
 

1. Verstappen = Certainly Gasly's performance is flattering him a bit and mistakes get more unnoticed than for many others (especially in qualifying). Nonetheless he only had more minor incidents and nothing major, even if it was close at times and even if it still needs others to play along sometimes. Very consistent beyond that and has adapted a more efficient style in wheel-to-wheel battles. Spielberg was the highlight performance.
2. Hamilton = I had him until Spielberg marginally in first, His weekend there was a tad unfortunate and just minor things such as Mercedes strict policy prevented him from clean sweeping all Mercedes wins this season. His quali pace was in the first few races a bit under his potential, but since Monaco he is improved but not as good as he probably can. Always strong on race day, his Germany performance prevented him entirely from having a shot at first. He and Max are clearly the class of the field in the last 12 months, as today showed again.
3. Sainz = Place 3-6 in this ranking are pretty close. Has to improve in qualifying against his strong rookie team mate, although the quali score is not entirely representative due to outside factors. Very strong form on race day. However, his place in this ranking is a bit misleading: while his performance was very good, his ranking is mostly down to drivers with higher potential not consistenly delivering good enough so far. I also suspect that the low expectations set on McLaren flatter both him and his team mate a bit, but this takes nothing away from his great performance.
4. Vettel = I still see Vettel as the stronger Ferrari driver over the first 12 races, even if recently Leclerc surpassed him. His race pace is impressive as always, even now after Leclerc's turnaround. Too many off performances in qualifying recently, and it even felt earlier in the season like Leclerc already had the pace to beat him there. Also too many mistakes again. In his defense there werent many scenarios where he could really shine (in fact the only one was Germany which was more a solid performance), which may emphasize his lows more than usual probably 
5. Leclerc = Super quick over one lap. Has also improved his performance on race day recently, but probably not enough. And has suffered probably more under Ferrari's strategy debacle than his team mate. However, overdrives too much which led to him not taking full use of his potential in qualifying and to two race-ending crashes. But the trend is overall in his favour.
6. Bottas = Very strong qualifier, as always. But nowhere near to other top drivers on race day. Doesnt do many mistakes though. Often unfairly criticised, I think only few drivers would do better, but he doesnt have "it".
7. Norris = Very impressive one lap performance. Extremely mature racer, manages to stay away from all the trouble in the midfield battles. His race pace is what needs the most work, though.
8. Russell = It's very difficult to rate him and there is every chance that he is rated way too low or way too high, but his performance in Budapest is the last prove that he belongs into the top 10.
9. Raikkonen = His clean racing style is very suited to the madness in the midfield. Very consistent, but Giovinazzi is starting to get there pace-wise over one lap at least.
10. Ricciardo = Has done quite a few silly mistakes so far, but has also shown some great performances. Having a strong qualifier like Hulkenberg under control like this in his first season in this team shows his class.

11. Hulkenberg
12. Perez
13. Kvyat
14. Albon
15. Magnussen
16. Stroll
17. Giovinazzi
18. Grosjean
19. Gasly
20. Kubica

Feel free to share yours  :up:



Advertisement

#2 jjcale

jjcale
  • Member

  • 11,176 posts
  • Joined: October 09

Posted 04 August 2019 - 16:17

Not saying youre wrong about 1 & 2 but .... it's a bit surprising that that a guy who has won 8 out of 12 races so far is not first in your eyes ....

 

Edit: and who was second in half the races he didnt win .... and was so successful in the first 8 races that respected pundits were declaring not just the the season over, but the entire sport dead .... because he was so successful he was making it "boring" and "killing the sport". 

 

.....did he really perform so badly in the next 4 races??   after all he did win 2 of them... and in fairly extraordinary fashion. 

 

Its like you have to downplay LH's achievements to be a serious analyst .... Max said, "a number of other drivers could do the same - in that car" - and it seems like this is a popular view..... how else do you explain a very credible poster doing anything but considering the guy who won 8 out of 12 races as best driver of the season so far .... you'd figure that just the weight of the statistics would force this conclusion ... but it seems that the incredible stats are taken to mean that somehow LH has it too easy and its not down to his peformance .... as MV said - other drivers could do the same.


Edited by jjcale, 04 August 2019 - 16:25.


#3 kernel

kernel
  • Member

  • 3,619 posts
  • Joined: March 15

Posted 04 August 2019 - 16:21

BOT in 6th, behind BOTH Ferrari drivers is a tad harsh on him. You're basically discounting his great performances around Australia, Baku, and in qualfiying as well.



#4 pitlanepalpatine

pitlanepalpatine
  • Member

  • 1,218 posts
  • Joined: March 15

Posted 04 August 2019 - 16:23

BOT in 6th, behind BOTH Ferrari drivers is a tad harsh on him. You're basically discounting his great performances around Australia, Baku, and in qualfiying as well.

 

Considering the discrepancy between him and Lewis it really isn't. He started off alright but he's pretty much turned into Gasly in silver in the last couple of races.



#5 TomNokoe

TomNokoe
  • Member

  • 19,451 posts
  • Joined: July 11

Posted 04 August 2019 - 16:26

It's so difficult to recall the early parts of the season and try to be objective. Perez really stood out in the opening races, for example.

Here's a top 10, split into tiers:

Verstappen - Hamilton
Sainz - Kimi
Bottas - Vettel - Leclerc
Norris - Albon - Perez

Edited by TomNokoe, 06 August 2019 - 21:57.


#6 Vesuvius

Vesuvius
  • Member

  • 11,952 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 04 August 2019 - 16:30

1.Verstappen
2.Hamilton
3.Bottas
4.Sainz
5.Leclerc
6.Kimi
7.Russell
8.Norris
9..Vettel
10.Albon
11.Ricciardo
12.Kvyat
13.Hulkenberg
14.Perez
15.Stroll
16.Magnussen
17.Giovinazzi
18.Gasly
19.Grosjean
20.Kubica

#7 KWSN - DSM

KWSN - DSM
  • Member

  • 20,284 posts
  • Joined: January 03

Posted 04 August 2019 - 16:31

I think it is a pretty fair list, I am anti- Sainz so me wanting him further down the list is at least partially mired in that failing of mine. And I would flip Giovanizzi and Grosjean.

 

For those complaining that Hamilton is not 1st on the list through his results, if these lists were that simple all we have to do is look at the driver standings, the difference in performance between Verstappen and Gasly is a testament to how good Verstappen have been this season.

 

:cool:



#8 Darth Sidious

Darth Sidious
  • Member

  • 979 posts
  • Joined: January 07

Posted 04 August 2019 - 16:33

Am I alone in thinking it's wrong to mark Lewis down for his qualifying?

 

Am I alone in thinking he sacrifices something in favour of race pace, whereas Bottas doesn't, which is why VB is so strong in qualifying in comparison?

 

It seems like Kovaleinen's curse is affecting Bottas. Kovaleinen was often the equal of Hamilton on Saturdays (fuel corrected) but nowhere near on Sundays.

 

I think Lewis just optimises the setup for the tyres and his way of managing them, while others optimise for one lap pace alone.



#9 KeithD68

KeithD68
  • Member

  • 101 posts
  • Joined: November 17

Posted 04 August 2019 - 16:35

Hamilton has won 8/12 and is leading the WDC by a country mile.

I would need to commit myself to a looney asylum if I even dreamt of him not being in first place.

#10 PlayboyRacer

PlayboyRacer
  • Member

  • 2,344 posts
  • Joined: March 16

Posted 04 August 2019 - 16:36

Top 10

Hamilton
Verstappen
Vettel
Leclerc
Bottas
Sainz
Raikkonen
Norris
Russell
Ricciardo

#11 Spillage

Spillage
  • Member

  • 5,741 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 04 August 2019 - 16:41

1. Verstappen
2. Hamilton
3. Vettel
4. Leclerc
5. Raikkonen
6. Sainz
7. Bottas
8. Ricciardo
9. Russell
10. Norris

I feel a bit harsh not putting Hamilton first to be honest, but there have been a couple of scruffy weekends.

Otherwise I've been impressed with the way Raikkonen and Sainz have both been quietly turning in excellent performances and apparently thriving in their roles as midfield team leaders.

#12 DarthWillie

DarthWillie
  • Member

  • 2,380 posts
  • Joined: November 07

Posted 04 August 2019 - 16:42

Hamilton has won 8/12 and is leading the WDC by a country mile.

I would need to commit myself to a looney asylum if I even dreamt of him not being in first place.

Only if you don't take the car into account. There have been quite some races where a poor races would mean a f2 nothing more.

#13 aray

aray
  • Member

  • 4,128 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 04 August 2019 - 16:46

1. Max

2. Lewis

3.Lec

4. Bot

5. Sainz

6.Seb

7.Kimi

8.Norris

9.Albon

10.Russel 



#14 CountDooku

CountDooku
  • Member

  • 10,193 posts
  • Joined: March 15

Posted 04 August 2019 - 16:48

People are suffering from recency bias I guess. :rotfl:
That’s why I favour quantitative race by race rankings.

#15 statman

statman
  • Member

  • 4,562 posts
  • Joined: December 15

Posted 04 August 2019 - 16:50

Hamilton has won 8/12 and is leading the WDC by a country mile.

I would need to commit myself to a looney asylum if I even dreamt of him not being in first place.

 

you can't imagine people rating Verstappen's accomplishments in a Red Bull-Honda higher than Hamilton in Mercedes?



#16 JeePee

JeePee
  • Member

  • 2,790 posts
  • Joined: December 11

Posted 04 August 2019 - 16:51

1. Verstappen - Flawless this year.

2. Hamilton - Almost flawless this year. Had some scruffy sessions and of course Hockenheim.

 

3. Raikkonen - I get the feeling he is pulling more from that Alfa than many others would be able to. Lots of races he is 'just there' at the front of the midfield

4. Sainz - Had some terrible bad luck at the start of the year, but has been driving pretty good.

5. Norris - He's doing quite well for a rookie, isn't he?

6. Russell - Very hard to judge, but I think he's doing a stellar job.

7. Ricciardo - Came in a new team and starts to beat Hulkenberg. Not sure if I expected that.

8. Bottas - Had some good weekends. Also some where he was just way off the pace.

9. Leclerc - He's quick. But makes too many mistakes too put him higher up the list.

 

This part I think is too difficult

 

19. Kubica

20. Gasly



#17 ArrowsLivery

ArrowsLivery
  • Member

  • 3,091 posts
  • Joined: March 17

Posted 04 August 2019 - 16:52

It’s a tough one. Max and Hamilton have been so incredible, while everybody else has been mediocre at best. I guess you have to give credit to Sainz for being consistently 6th or 7th and for Bottas for some of his early 2.0 performances.
Neither Ferrari driver is fit to drive a top level car judging by this year.
Renault’s drivers have also disappointed considering the hype.
Kimi has been a steady performer but we know he doesn’t have ultimate pace anymore. Giovinazzi has not done well.
Kvyat deserves a spot in the top 10 I think, he had been consistent and hasn’t made any big mistakes. Albon has been “league average” to use a baseball term.
Stroll has been awful in qualifying, while Perez has been anonymous, I assume the car isn’t that good this year.
Haas’ drivers have been awful and are in the bottom 5 along with Kubica (should not be anywhere near an F1 car at this point) and Gasly.

#18 KeithD68

KeithD68
  • Member

  • 101 posts
  • Joined: November 17

Posted 04 August 2019 - 16:55

you can't imagine people rating Verstappen's accomplishments in a Red Bull-Honda higher than Hamilton in Mercedes?

 

2 x 5th places and 5 x 4th places?

 

Top 3 team with a top 3 budget?

 

No I can't. 


Edited by KeithD68, 04 August 2019 - 17:11.


#19 Lights

Lights
  • Member

  • 16,281 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 04 August 2019 - 16:56

My list. If the numbers are the same that means there was nothing in between 2 drivers that put one ahead of the other (it's an average score).
 
1. Verstappen - He's just been amazing, carrying his team, getting the maximum out of the car. 
2. Hamilton - Close to Max, but his Austria and Hockenheim races put him just behind on my list.
3. Vettel - Far from the top 2, but still very solid and nobody else below has put up a more consistent performance to knock Vettel of 3rd place here.
3. Sainz - Great but not faultless. Started the season pretty bad, had he used the opportunity in Bahrain to score big instead of ruining it he could've been 3rd on this list. 
5. Leclerc - Has to work on his racepace/tire management and cut out some silly mistakes to become a real top driver. He's young, he'll get there. He has the speed.
5. Bottas - He started great but it's going downhill this year. As every year, it seems.
7. Norris - Fast in qualifying but in races things just don't go how they should go. Not always clear to say if it's up to Norris or the team, but overall he's not on Sainz's level yet.
7. Räikkönen - Consistent and gets the results in. He's great at staying out of trouble and that's the main reason he's ahead of a lot of guys below.
9. Perez - Dumb error in Hockenheim, for the rest he's been solid and easily has the measure of Stroll.
9. Russell - I loved seeing him fight with the rest in Austria and Hungary. A shame when he made a rare mistake it cost him a point, doesn't take away that he's utterly dominating Kubica.
11. Ricciardo - He bought what Cyril told him and now he's stuck in the midfield in a sometimes horribly performing car. Deep down I know he's better than 11th, but some silly errors aren't helping
11. Albon - Hard to call sometimes whether he or Kvyat is better. But overall he's done well for a rookie, and he hasn't done anything stupid.
13. Hülkenberg - Could've easily ended up in the top 7 on this list if he had utilized his position in Hockenheim. As it is, he's often slower than Ricciardo.
14. Kvyat - Was great in Monaco, opportunistic in Hockenheim. Silly mistake in Bahrain. Upped his status this year, but he's not (clearly) ahead of Albon while he is way more experienced.
15. Magnussen - Sometimes not quick enough, but overall good racecraft and opportunistic
16. Grosjean - Often quick but also often too clumsy. He's just not good for the WCC.
17. Giovinazzi - He's getting closer to Raikkonen at times but he's still also lacking racecraft
17. Stroll - Terrible at qualifying, rarely makes up for it in the race
19. Gasly - Frankly a mystery. How on earth can someone be in people's top 10 lists 1 year and then disappoint like this the next?
20. Kubica - He should've never come back

Edited by Lights, 04 August 2019 - 16:58.


Advertisement

#20 Balnazzard

Balnazzard
  • Member

  • 1,840 posts
  • Joined: January 13

Posted 04 August 2019 - 17:00

It’s a tough one. Max and Hamilton have been so incredible, while everybody else has been mediocre at best. I guess you have to give credit to Sainz for being consistently 6th or 7th and for Bottas for some of his early 2.0 performances.
Neither Ferrari driver is fit to drive a top level car judging by this year.
Renault’s drivers have also disappointed considering the hype.
Kimi has been a steady performer but we know he doesn’t have ultimate pace anymore. Giovinazzi has not done well.
Kvyat deserves a spot in the top 10 I think, he had been consistent and hasn’t made any big mistakes. Albon has been “league average” to use a baseball term.
Stroll has been awful in qualifying, while Perez has been anonymous, I assume the car isn’t that good this year.
Haas’ drivers have been awful and are in the bottom 5 along with Kubica (should not be anywhere near an F1 car at this point) and Gasly.

I think this is quite harsh especially for drivers like Sainz and Kimi who have pretty much been able to maximize their own results almost every weekend and to Norris who has had qreat rookie season, same with Russel, even though we dont know how much he is flattered because of lack of pace of Kubica. Ofc if your standards are up to the level that everyone should be where Max and Lewis are at the moment, then I quess everyone else is indeed average to you.


Edited by Balnazzard, 04 August 2019 - 17:03.


#21 ArrowsLivery

ArrowsLivery
  • Member

  • 3,091 posts
  • Joined: March 17

Posted 04 August 2019 - 17:09


I think this is quite harsh especially for drivers like Sainz and Kimi who have pretty much been able to maximize their own results almost every weekend and to Norris who has had qreat rookie season, same with Russel, even though we dont know how much he is flattered because of lack of pace of Kubica.


I think I was fair with Kimi. Sainz has put his car where it belongs and has made only a few glaring mistakes. I can’t put them THAT close to Hamilton and Max who have been impeccable.

#22 masa90

masa90
  • Member

  • 406 posts
  • Joined: November 13

Posted 04 August 2019 - 17:14

Hamilton
Verstappen
Sainz
Bottas
Kimi
Leclerc
Vettel
Norris
Ricciardo
Kvyat

#23 Beamer

Beamer
  • Member

  • 1,679 posts
  • Joined: September 00

Posted 04 August 2019 - 17:14

Not saying youre wrong about 1 & 2 but .... it's a bit surprising that that a guy who has won 8 out of 12 races so far is not first in your eyes ....

Edit: and who was second in half the races he didnt win .... and was so successful in the first 8 races that respected pundits were declaring not just the the season over, but the entire sport dead .... because he was so successful he was making it "boring" and "killing the sport".

.....did he really perform so badly in the next 4 races?? after all he did win 2 of them... and in fairly extraordinary fashion.

Its like you have to downplay LH's achievements to be a serious analyst .... Max said, "a number of other drivers could do the same - in that car" - and it seems like this is a popular view..... how else do you explain a very credible poster doing anything but considering the guy who won 8 out of 12 races as best driver of the season so far .... you'd figure that just the weight of the statistics would force this conclusion ... but it seems that the incredible stats are taken to mean that somehow LH has it too easy and its not down to his peformance .... as MV said - other drivers could do the same.


A driver can be great(er) in mediocre machinery. Ham and max are closely matched, would have no problem if they were switched. But bottas being only 3 points ahead of max puts him well behind.

#24 SenorSjon

SenorSjon
  • Member

  • 10,191 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 04 August 2019 - 17:14

2 x 5th places and 5 x 4th places?

Top 3 team with a top 3 budget?

No I can't.


Verstappen had no off weekend, while Lewis messed up Hockenheim. Verstappen finished no lower than 5th, while Lewis finished 11th on track as lowest.

#25 Silberpfeil

Silberpfeil
  • Member

  • 512 posts
  • Joined: October 18

Posted 04 August 2019 - 17:20

1. Hamilton: I’m freely going to admit to a bit of recency bias here and say that before today I probably wouldn’t have ranked him no. 1 on this list. However, Hamilton’s ultimate highs were just a bit higher than Verstappen’s (going the distance in Monaco, his imperious drive in Silverstone and, of course, that drive today). The Hungarian GP showed why he’s still the yardstick everyone else has to measure themselves against. As usual, he took a bit longer than others to fully wake from hibernation, but since Barcelona he has once again been (mostly) lights-out, the weird weekend in Germany notwithstanding. A bit scruffy in places as well, but winning 8/12 would be a strong argument for any driver to be placed in P1 on the merit of that stat alone. It looks like he has the title all but wrapped up, and some of his strongest venues from years past are still to come.

 

 

2. Verstappen: Hasn’t really done anything not to be ranked one place higher on the list. I felt like he could have a bit more in qualifying on occasion, but most of the justification of why he’s not in P1 can already be found above. Verstappen’s lone bad mistake of the year against Hamilton in Monaco (yes, I am rating that botched overtake as a mistake, as it easily could’ve wiped out him and Hamilton). He also hasn’t had to bother with intra-team competition at all, and I genuinely cannot tell whether to hold that for or against him.

 

 

3. Sainz: I don’t actually have that much to say about him. Much like Verstappen, he has excelled at getting the maximum out of the car, only that his package is usually much more limited. He was lucky in Silverstone, but his place in the WDC as “best of the rest” is well deserved. In a season that has seen quite a few mistakes from the drivers in the Top 6 cars, that is enough to lift him above all but two of them. Whether he’s actually better than some of them remains to be seen, but on current form, I think he might at least have a shot in equal machinery.

 

 

4. Leclerc: Much like Vettel, he had his moments, but ultimately acquitted himself extremely well for his first year in a Top 6 car, and only his second in the series. Two poles and multiple podiums is a really good haul, even though he needs to cut down on the small mistakes in qualifying.

 

 

5. Vettel: Once again crumbled under pressure multiple times, but delivered two measured drives in Hockenheim and Hungary to elevate himself above Bottas in this ranking. His battle with Leclerc should be one to watch. He has also been the victim of his shambles of a team this year, which at times led to the impression that he’s been personally cursed by the Racing Gods.

 

 

6. Bottas (1.0? 2.0? 1.5?) : Once again emphatically the second-best Merc driver. Strong at the start of the season and occasionally rapid in qualifying, but inconsistency, bad starts and a general lack of race pace have cost him dearly. His recent race-ending mistake in Hockenheim and weak performance in Hungary drop him behind Vettel on this list.

 

 

7. Norris: After a disappointing year in F2, he has hit back emphatically this year. Strong speed-wise, but for the moment, he seems to lack Sainz’s curious ability to bring home the results when it matters. That being said, he was very unlucky in two of the last three races, and with his retirement in Germany.

 

 

8. Raikkönen: Solid as a rock. Has almost single-handedly dragged Alfa in front of Racing Point in the WCC, and while he is starting to struggle against Giovinazzi in qualifying, on race day he is always a force to be reckoned with. He showed that he still has value as an F1 driver that goes beyond his marketing appeal.

 

 

9. Russell: Has clearly had the edge over Kubica in terms of speed, and only doesn’t rank higher because we have no idea how he would look against a teammate that is not a complete unknown.

 

 

10. Kvyat has impressed me immensely this year. His podium drive was inspired, and he has had a number of other strong performances. Just edges out Albon for the last place in my Top 10.

 

 

11. Albon

 

 

12. Ricciardo

 

 

13. Perez

 

 

14. Hülkenberg

 

 

15. Magnussen

 

 

16. Giovinazzi

 

 

17. Grosjean

 

 

18. Stroll

 

 

19. Gasly

 

 

20. Kubica



#26 PlayboyRacer

PlayboyRacer
  • Member

  • 2,344 posts
  • Joined: March 16

Posted 04 August 2019 - 17:21

9. Leclerc - He's quick. But makes too many mistakes too put him higher up the list.

Just wondering if you used to use the same criteria for Verstappen in previous seasons? Hmmm

Some of these posts ranking the grid are quite something! Wonder if we're all watching the same thing tbh lol

Edited by PlayboyRacer, 04 August 2019 - 17:37.


#27 Whatisvalis

Whatisvalis
  • Member

  • 1,109 posts
  • Joined: October 14

Posted 04 August 2019 - 17:33

Ver has improved immensely and it's a pleasure to watch him race now, but he's allowed to race at peak efficiently because his team mate is nowhere. I hope he and Lewis continue this through the second half of the season. Today's race was a fantastic demonstration of their skill.

 

Sainz, Kimi, and rookies Norris and Albon have been impressive this year. The Ferrari boys have been good but over driving, and the team as a whole are still throwing away opportunities.



#28 MortenF1

MortenF1
  • Member

  • 21,853 posts
  • Joined: June 01

Posted 04 August 2019 - 17:38

1. Hamilton. Eight races won out of 12 is pretty damning, but having said that he has had a couple of weekends which contained some scruffy performances. ...but that is saying something, when one highligths that. Tells all about the high standards he’s held to. Relentless race pace, as always, and what a way to go into the summer break; fresh from a fantastic win, hunting down Verstappen, passing him and winning.
2. Verstappen. I would be surprised if anyone does not have Ham and Ver in their top two. Verstappen has come a long way since last year IMO. Better, wiser, and better equipped to use his speed.
3. Sainz. Just seems to go about his business so self-assured and whatever he does it works. I am very, very impressed.
4. Leclerc. Great speed! Outqualifying Vettel a couple of times by more than half a second....! There has been a couple of silly mistakes but Ok, he’s driving for a top team and has a strong team-mate. Young excuberance and a strong desire to impress... voila, you’re in the wall a couple of times.
4. Vettel. Decent year by his standards. Not his best year, far from his worst. 2019 contains almost all you expect from the Vettel-package.
6. Bottas. As ever and as expected, his one lap-pace is crazy good! Sadly, his often lacking race pace is just as much as expected as his super impressive Q3-laps is. Can be bad in races, can be great. We’ve seen the scale also this year.
7. Räikkönen. I am very impressed with the year he’s had so far. «Always there» is a fitting tag and that goes for both Saturday and Sunday.
8. Norris. He is so fast over one lap, but perhaps not as strong across a race distance? Not sure. He is a rookie, but damn impressive!
9. Ricciardo. I wish he had gotten that Monaco-result to build on. New guy at the team, but immediately asserted himself as the leader, which of course he should and also was expected of him. Hard to shine in a car that is slipping down the order, but we have and will continue to see some Ric-magic.
10. Russell. The hardest to rate with his team-mate being also so hard to rate. Clearly it is not the Kubica of old, but I just feel Russell is doing a great job.

#29 DutchQuicksilver

DutchQuicksilver
  • Member

  • 4,588 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 04 August 2019 - 17:46

1. Max Verstappen - Has been faultless this year. A few wins and loads of podiums in a car which for the majority of the season so far was only third best.
2. Lewis Hamilton - Close to faultless, but unlike Verstappen, has had a few off weekends with Germany and Austria.
3. Carlos Sainz - Best of the rest by a mile so far this season. Has already made Alonso a forgotten man at McLaren with his impressive and mature driving.
4. Kimi Raikkonen - Very consistent with loads of good points finishes. Had put the car in places where it shouldn’t be, pace wise.
5. Lando Norris - Has impressed me so far. Close to Sainz, faster on Saturdays even. Didn’t expect that, thought he was too young.
6. Valtteri Bottas - Strong first six races as Bottas 2.0, but has gone back to Bottas 1.0 ever since. Needs to up his game after the summer to keep his seat.
7. Charles Leclerc - Fast, but error prone which is to be expected for a young driver in his first year at a topteam. Is very close to Vettel and faster on Saturdays.
8. Sebastian Vettel - Not as strong as the last two seasons, but still good enough. Should have won Canada, and is consistent on Sundays.
9. Daniil Kvyat - Has come back a stronger driver after a year off learning at Ferrari. Rewarded with a podium in Germany. Also strong in Monaco.
10. Alexander Albon - Impressive start as a rookie and a second Red Bull reject. A lot better than Hartley though. He’s very close to his more experienced teammate.

Rest of the field:
11. Nico Hulkenberg.- Car is poor, but Nico is making the best of it. No worse than Ricciardo.
12. Daniel Ricciardo - Expected more from him. Not showing he is deserving 30 million a year.
13. George Russell - Way faster than his experienced teammate. Can’t shine much, but has dog of a car though.
14. Kevin Magnussen - Impressive one lap pace, but the car is just so poor on Sundays.
15. Sergio Perez - Baku was strong, rest a bit mediocre. Pace of his car isn’t helping though.
16. Lance Stroll - Some good drives on Sunday, close to Perez. Needs to up his pace on Saturday.
17. Antonio Giovinazzi - One lap pace is close to Kimi’s, but he’s too slow on Sundays. Has had some bad luck on various occasions though.
18. Romain Grosjean - His time is about up in F1. Still has flashes of pace, but you expect more from his experience. Hasn’t had much good luck though either.
19. Pierre Gasly - 19th in the ranking, what’s more to say? His promotion has come too soon. I can see a Kvyat-Gasly swap coming up after the summer.
20. Robert Kubica - Has shown absolutely nothing. Not worthy of an F1 drive anymore. Slowest of all by a mile.

#30 CharlesWinstone

CharlesWinstone
  • Member

  • 692 posts
  • Joined: July 16

Posted 04 August 2019 - 18:00

Hamilton has won 8/12 and is leading the WDC by a country mile.

I would need to commit myself to a looney asylum if I even dreamt of him not being in first place.

Its about the driver not the car.

#31 HammyHamiltonFan

HammyHamiltonFan
  • Member

  • 524 posts
  • Joined: June 13

Posted 04 August 2019 - 18:04

1) Lewis Hamilton

2) Max Verstappen

3) Carlos Sainz

4) Valtteri Bottas

5) Charles Leclerc

6) Sebastian Vettel

7) Lando Norris

8) Kimi Raikkonen

9) Daniil Kvyat

10) Alexander Albon

11) George Russell

12) Daniel Ricciardo

13) Sergio Perez

14) Nico Hulkenberg

15) Pierre Gasly

16) Lance Stroll

17) Antonio Giovinazzi

18) Kevin Magnussen

19) Romain Grosjean

20) Robert Kubica


Edited by HammyHamiltonFan, 04 August 2019 - 18:04.


#32 Ruudbackus

Ruudbackus
  • Member

  • 129 posts
  • Joined: October 18

Posted 04 August 2019 - 18:05

1. Verstappen, it’s a tough call between him and Hamilton. Max is outperforming his car and that’s why he’s my number 1 by 0.001 seconds 😉
2. Hamilton , blistering pace, won 8 of 12 races. Will this be a record breaking year for wins by a single driver? Yet he’s behind Verstappen for me as he has the better car and that makes it easier to take those wins. His performance in Hockenheim made him lose those 0.001 seconds for me
3. Leclerc, for a first year in a Ferrari he’s having a hell of a drive, admitted he’s making some mistakes. But only being 24 points begins Vettel after 12 races in your first season is remarkable, especially as you take into account his heartbreaking finish to the Bahrain Grand Prix
4. Sainz, putting in a decent performance with the McLaren just 5 points behind Gasly. One can point at Gasly underperforming but I like to point at Sainz having a good season.
5. Raikonen, this old fox outperforms the Alfa Romeo’s potential. Decent results and good to see him have those fights in midfield after seemingly diminishing at Ferrari
6. Vettel, recovered in his last 2 races but had a pretty rough season start with Silverstone as the climax
7. Bottas, basically the opposite from Vettel, very good start but his last few races just falling apart
8. Norris, best rookie of the season for me, 10 in the wdc standings as a rookie is a solid performance
9. Albon, also a solid rookie season, has some great drives and isn’t that far behind the experienced Kvyat
10. Kvyat, has done better then I expected him to do his podium in Hockenheim well deserved
11. Russel, with a car that isn’t drivable he’s doing a good job, outperforming his teammate, unfortunately not in the rankings yet but who knows in the next rain hit race
12. Magnussen, at least has some visibility on the Haas. He’s sometimes too much on the edge though.
13. Ricciardo, bleak season for him
14. Stroll, outperforming Perez at least
15. Hulkenberg, outperformed by Ricciardo (although not much in terms of points) but his error at Hockenheim was very costly
16. Giovinazzi, I had to put him somewhere but like the no 17. Invisible
17. Grosjean, basically invisible this season
18. Perez, weak season for him so far outperformance by stroll
19. Gasly, clearly underperforming, it can happen when adjusting to a new team in the first few races but by now he should do better
20. Kubica, how painful it is, he doesn’t belong in f1 anymore

#33 shure

shure
  • Member

  • 464 posts
  • Joined: April 17

Posted 04 August 2019 - 18:08

Not saying youre wrong about 1 & 2 but .... it's a bit surprising that that a guy who has won 8 out of 12 races so far is not first in your eyes ....

 

Edit: and who was second in half the races he didnt win .... and was so successful in the first 8 races that respected pundits were declaring not just the the season over, but the entire sport dead .... because he was so successful he was making it "boring" and "killing the sport". 

 

.....did he really perform so badly in the next 4 races??   after all he did win 2 of them... and in fairly extraordinary fashion. 

 

Its like you have to downplay LH's achievements to be a serious analyst .... Max said, "a number of other drivers could do the same - in that car" - and it seems like this is a popular view..... how else do you explain a very credible poster doing anything but considering the guy who won 8 out of 12 races as best driver of the season so far .... you'd figure that just the weight of the statistics would force this conclusion ... but it seems that the incredible stats are taken to mean that somehow LH has it too easy and its not down to his peformance .... as MV said - other drivers could do the same.

I think Maklar has given a pretty fair assessment, tbh.  We all know Lewis is an excellent driver but there have been occasions this season where even he's admitted he hasn't been at his best.  I think ranking him #2 because of that is hardly an insult.

 

If number of wins defines best driver, then that pretty much excludes most of the grid because they don't have the equipment to challenge for them.  I think you're confusing most successful with best.  

 

There's a case to be made for either of them, but it's hard to see what Max could have done better anywhere.  Hamilton, for the most part, has been excellent.  But he hasn't necessarily been excellent at every race and could have e.g. done better in the one before this.  So it's not unreasonable to drop him a mark because of that.



#34 CharlesWinstone

CharlesWinstone
  • Member

  • 692 posts
  • Joined: July 16

Posted 04 August 2019 - 18:11

1 Verstappen. Fast and faultless.
2.Hamilton because of his performance today. Dunno why, but sometimes he is off.
3. Sainz. Not my favourite but he is doing good.
4 and 5 Norris and Vettel
6 Russel. He showed this weeked why.
7. Leclerc. Only Bahrein is not good enough.
7,8,9,10 Albon, Kvyat, Ric and Hulk.
11. And the rest.

Edited by CharlesWinstone, 04 August 2019 - 18:11.


#35 johnwilliamdavies

johnwilliamdavies
  • Member

  • 705 posts
  • Joined: January 05

Posted 04 August 2019 - 18:11

I'm amazed that virtually everyone puts Sainz as the third best driver. He's been a bastion of mediocrity throughout his career, and even now is regularly out-qualified by his rookie teammate. My feeling is that this year's McLaren is a very, very good car and Sainz's performances look impressive because of it, and not some vast improvement in his driving skill. If the likes of Alonso or Ricciardo were in a McLaren it would closer still to the top 3.  



#36 CharlesWinstone

CharlesWinstone
  • Member

  • 692 posts
  • Joined: July 16

Posted 04 August 2019 - 18:13

I'm amazed that virtually everyone puts Sainz as the third best driver. He's been a bastion of mediocrity throughout his career, and even now is regularly out-qualified by his rookie teammate. My feeling is that this year's McLaren is a very, very good car and Sainz's performances look impressive because of it, and not some vast improvement in his driving skill. If the likes of Alonso or Ricciardo were in a McLaren it would closer still to the top 3.


Funny this. Alonso was in a Mclaren and left volunteerly and Ricciardo choose Renault over Mclaren.

#37 shure

shure
  • Member

  • 464 posts
  • Joined: April 17

Posted 04 August 2019 - 18:14

I'm amazed that virtually everyone puts Sainz as the third best driver. He's been a bastion of mediocrity throughout his career, and even now is regularly out-qualified by his rookie teammate. My feeling is that this year's McLaren is a very, very good car and Sainz's performances look impressive because of it, and not some vast improvement in his driving skill. If the likes of Alonso or Ricciardo were in a McLaren it would closer still to the top 3.  

I tend to agree with this.  Sainz has been outperformed by Norris more than once.  He's put in a solid but unspectacular performance.  Having said that, it's clear McLaren are playing it safe and more than once they've instructed their drivers to go for a delta instead of pushing, so hard to really judge how well the drivers are doing.  I do think a more seasoned driver like Alonso would have gotten better results by now, though



#38 shure

shure
  • Member

  • 464 posts
  • Joined: April 17

Posted 04 August 2019 - 18:16

Funny this. Alonso was in a Mclaren and left volunteerly and Ricciardo choose Renault over Mclaren.

That's true.  But no driver has foresight.  Sadly I think Alonso did his usual spectacular timing thing and left just before McLaren turned a corner...



#39 DutchQuicksilver

DutchQuicksilver
  • Member

  • 4,588 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 04 August 2019 - 18:17

I'm amazed that virtually everyone puts Sainz as the third best driver. He's been a bastion of mediocrity throughout his career, and even now is regularly out-qualified by his rookie teammate. My feeling is that this year's McLaren is a very, very good car and Sainz's performances look impressive because of it, and not some vast improvement in his driving skill. If the likes of Alonso or Ricciardo were in a McLaren it would closer still to the top 3.

He deserves more credit than you’re giving him. Just look how many points he is ahead of the next supposedly best of the rest driver. You don’t achieve that if you’re just a mediocre driver. The car has only really come good after Spain. Not to mention Sainz started the season with three DNF’s didn’t he?

Advertisement

#40 Lights

Lights
  • Member

  • 16,281 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 04 August 2019 - 18:19

The amount of people in here that put Vettel 6th or 8th or whatever behind guys like Leclerc and Raikkonen has made me question if I'm not failing in my dislike for the guy.

 

Seriously, how bad do you think he is? If he would have been that bad this year then he wouldn't be 3rd on my list, trust me.



#41 Kao18

Kao18
  • Member

  • 3,434 posts
  • Joined: March 15

Posted 04 August 2019 - 18:20

1. Hamilton: I’m freely going to admit to a bit of recency bias here and say that before today I probably wouldn’t have ranked him no. 1 on this list. However, Hamilton’s ultimate highs were just a bit higher than Verstappen’s (going the distance in Monaco, his imperious drive in Silverstone and, of course, that drive today). The Hungarian GP showed why he’s still the yardstick everyone else has to measure themselves against. As usual, he took a bit longer than others to fully wake from hibernation, but since Barcelona he has once again been (mostly) lights-out, the weird weekend in Germany notwithstanding. A bit scruffy in places as well, but winning 8/12 would be a strong argument for any driver to be placed in P1 on the merit of that stat alone. It looks like he has the title all but wrapped up, and some of his strongest venues from years past are still to come.

For me its the opposite and Verstappens' highs this season have been absolutely more impressive than Hamiltons. The win in Austria was unbelievable (dont have any other word for it), Germany was incredible too. And the pole lap in Hungary obviously as well (not sure when was the last time Red Bull took pole in Hungary). Also Max has been pretty much flawless in the other rounds. Hamilton has had some strong results but he is still driving the best car and had very mediocre races in Austria and Germany and is having a lot more trouble with Bottas in qualifying than I expected.

Max being this close to P2 in the wdc at the summer break I would have never expected after the season opener in Australia and is a huge surprise.

Edited by Kao18, 04 August 2019 - 18:21.


#42 SolalMS

SolalMS
  • Member

  • 109 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 04 August 2019 - 18:22

My list.
1) Max Verstappen: the last 20 races in top 5. Error free, aggressive until the limit. Extracting every tenth out of the Red Bull and even more. Reminds me Michael Schumacher at Benetton. The new thing I see is also his calm attitude. I would have expected a very disappointed Max after today race, but actually he was totally relaxed. It is like he does not feel any pressure. That’s something new. Head down and hard work, he has really matured.

I will surprise lot of people, but for me his best race is Monaco this year. The fact to try to overtake Lewis, even if it did not work, was massive. 99% of other drivers would not have try it, but Max tried.

2) Lewis Hamilton: Honestly, without Max, he should have been number 1 of this ranking. What a first half of a season ! 8 wins ! Lewis has been beaten several time in qualification while we all know he is usually superb in quali. And of course, Hockenheim where we would have expect more from the rain master.

After those 2 guys that are clearly above the field, it is difficult to make a ranking but I will try based on my feeling.

3) Leclerc: You know Max is at this level after 5 years in F1. Charles is only in his second season and already matching Seb Vettel, 4WDC. Still mistakes here and there but he is learning and super fast. Don’t forget Bahrain and Austria where he should have 2 wins in the pocket.
4) Bottas: It is hard to be compared to Lewis. I can’t blame him. But still, he has beaten several time Lewis in qualif, has won 2 races. Against Lewis, believe me, it requires some talent to do that.
5) Sainz: I think he made a super move to go to McLaren. He seems happy and have the support of the team. He is transformed and consistently put solid performance.
6) Vettel: May be at the end of the season, he will be up in the ranking. I think the issue he have is in the mind.Too many mistakes since Germany 2018, far too many when you want to fight for the WDC against Lewis and Mercedes. And may be Hockenheim 2019 has unlocked that issue, to be continued.
7) Norris: Solid young guy. A future talent for sure.

#43 DutchQuicksilver

DutchQuicksilver
  • Member

  • 4,588 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 04 August 2019 - 18:22

The amount of people in here that put Vettel 6th or 8th or whatever behind guys like Leclerc and Raikkonen has made me question if I'm not failing in my dislike for the guy.

Seriously, how bad do you think he is? If he would have been that bad this year then he wouldn't be 3rd on my list, trust me.

He’s not bad, but has made silly errors in Bahrain and Silverstone. His pace on Saturdays isn’t strong anymore either. Leclerc is in his first season at a topteam and only his second in F1 and has come closer to a win more than Vettel. And, well Raikkonen, he’s outperforming his car and finishes in the points nearly every race without making mistakes.

So yeah, in my book Leclerc and Raikkonen have done a better job than Vettel.

#44 Lights

Lights
  • Member

  • 16,281 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 04 August 2019 - 18:24

I'm amazed that virtually everyone puts Sainz as the third best driver. He's been a bastion of mediocrity throughout his career, and even now is regularly out-qualified by his rookie teammate. My feeling is that this year's McLaren is a very, very good car and Sainz's performances look impressive because of it, and not some vast improvement in his driving skill. If the likes of Alonso or Ricciardo were in a McLaren it would closer still to the top 3.  

 

Who's done better though? Everybody has been outqualified sometimes and everybody has made some errors. Sainz has only made like 1, and has been very good in races.

 

I agree perhaps the McLaren is flattering him, but if he finishes 5th in front of Gasly while guys like Perez or Hulkenberg are in 11th and 12th, it's simply hard to say that they did a better job. It's difficult to pull apart these components, so yes being in a better car does help unless you get spanked by your teammate or make a lot of dumb errors. That's just the reality I'm afraid.



#45 KeithD68

KeithD68
  • Member

  • 101 posts
  • Joined: November 17

Posted 04 August 2019 - 18:27

Its about the driver not the car.

 

When you have an algorithm that can separate driver and car, team, and tyres, objectively, please do let us all know.


Edited by KeithD68, 04 August 2019 - 18:30.


#46 Tsarwash

Tsarwash
  • Member

  • 12,395 posts
  • Joined: August 10

Posted 04 August 2019 - 18:29

Just to remind people that in Germany Hamilton was feeling so rough that there was the possibility that he wasn't actually going to race that weekend. 



#47 Lights

Lights
  • Member

  • 16,281 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 04 August 2019 - 18:38

He’s not bad, but has made silly errors in Bahrain and Silverstone. His pace on Saturdays isn’t strong anymore either. Leclerc is in his first season at a topteam and only his second in F1 and has come closer to a win more than Vettel. And, well Raikkonen, he’s outperforming his car and finishes in the points nearly every race without making mistakes.

So yeah, in my book Leclerc and Raikkonen have done a better job than Vettel.

 

Leclerc has made silly errors in Baku and Hockenheim, so that counters Vettel's errors. So I don't see how Vettel is behind there just because his pace on Saturdays isn't that strong. It's about Sundays and there Vettel's pace has been better except for a few races like Bahrain. Hungary is a well defining example of this season as far as Ferrari drivers go. If Leclerc was that good he'd have found a way to keep Vettel behind him on days like today. 

 

And Raikkonen better than Vettel, really? Had Raikkonen been in this years Ferrari he'd just have been beaten by Vettel almost every race (bar the races where Vettel would make errors of course). Even in Vettel's biggest comedy year ever, 2018, Vettel ended on top even if you take bad luck from Raikkonen into account as well. That says everything IMO. I don't see any reason why now Raikkonen at Alfa Romeo is suddenly top material again. Kimi might have less PR and feel less pressure now, but surely that didn't effect the 'Iceman' that much at Ferrari? He's not outperforming his car now, he's just beating a teammate that's probably one of the worst drivers on the grid.



#48 Galoredk

Galoredk
  • Member

  • 300 posts
  • Joined: April 17

Posted 04 August 2019 - 18:40

The sheer amount of people putting George Russel in the top 10 (or even top 18) is ridiculous 😂. Are you serious or just all brits? The single most shitty results this season has been by Kubica and Russell. Sure, the car is to blame, so that is the case with HAAS and Renault as well.

#49 Vesuvius

Vesuvius
  • Member

  • 11,952 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 04 August 2019 - 18:48

Leclerc has made silly errors in Baku and Hockenheim, so that counters Vettel's errors. So I don't see how Vettel is behind there just because his pace on Saturdays isn't that strong. It's about Sundays and there Vettel's pace has been better except for a few races like Bahrain. Hungary is a well defining example of this season as far as Ferrari drivers go. If Leclerc was that good he'd have found a way to keep Vettel behind him on days like today.

And Raikkonen better than Vettel, really? Had Raikkonen been in this years Ferrari he'd just have been beaten by Vettel almost every race (bar the races where Vettel would make errors of course). Even in Vettel's biggest comedy year ever, 2018, Vettel ended on top even if you take bad luck from Raikkonen into account as well. That says everything IMO. I don't see any reason why now Raikkonen at Alfa Romeo is suddenly top material again. Kimi might have less PR and feel less pressure now, but surely that didn't effect the 'Iceman' that much at Ferrari? He's not outperforming his car now, he's just beating a teammate that's probably one of the worst drivers on the grid.

Kimi drove well in 2018 all things considered.

You get the most out of Kimi, when you focus on him and listen to him, like McLaren and Lotus did and Ferrari 2009. So far this season, he has driven very well, not done many mistakes etc.Giovinazzi also isn't bad driver at all.

Edited by Vesuvius, 04 August 2019 - 18:50.


#50 AmonGods

AmonGods
  • Member

  • 726 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 04 August 2019 - 18:53

Just to remind people that in Germany Hamilton was feeling so rough that there was the possibility that he wasn't actually going to race that weekend. 

 

This.

Also.. People have short memory but in Germany Max was the 1st to spin and the rain wasnt even as hard as when Lewis did. It was just luck on Max's side. 

Anyway, to the topic, I'd say Lewis and Max have been a class or 2 above everyone else.