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Late blooming careers


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#101 E.B.

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Posted 11 August 2019 - 07:14

Seriously? Senna was doing FF2000 in 1982. There is no way that he would have been on Frank Williams' radar at that point.


It was late 1983 iirc. Surprised some of you don't know about it. Edit - idrc. Seems it was July.

Edited by E.B., 11 August 2019 - 07:21.


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#102 PlatenGlass

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Posted 11 August 2019 - 07:41

It was late 1983 iirc. Surprised some of you don't know about it. Edit - idrc. Seems it was July.

But the point is the timing doesn't fit the Rosberg thing.

#103 BiggestBuddyLazierFan

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Posted 11 August 2019 - 08:04

It was Schlesser

#104 Henri Greuter

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Posted 11 August 2019 - 08:43

Williams never seemed to appreciate what they had until it was gone...

 

If it comes to drivers which is what we're discussing here...

One exception:  Alan Jones......



#105 hogstar

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Posted 11 August 2019 - 09:44

It was Schlesser

 

It was not Schlesser! Read the book. 

 

Williams tried to trade Keke with another existing F1 team sometime after the 1982 Canadian Grand Prix. The driver concerned had yet to get much in the way of results by the time the book was finished at the end of '84. That gives a very limited pool of drivers as discussed earlier in this thread, with a shortlist of Cheever, Surer, Mansell, De Cesaris & possibly Jarier. 

 

Schlesser was with an F2 team doing sod all in '82 and Senna was in FF2000. Non starter.

 

And as an aside, although Senna was very quick in his Williams test, there was never any consideration to take him in '84 as Laffite and Rosberg were signed up - the latter till end of '85 - with Frank & Patrick preferring experience. 



#106 Atreiu

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Posted 11 August 2019 - 11:57

Mansell is the prime example for late bloomers and for how one good car can make a whole difference for a driver.



#107 EvilPhil II

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Posted 11 August 2019 - 21:21

See for yourself. It was even Keke's car.

https://youtu.be/T205BULhzJM

Senna was in F3 in 1983 and dominating. In 1984 he made he F1 debut with Toleman.

Edited by EvilPhil II, 11 August 2019 - 21:22.


#108 PlatenGlass

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Posted 11 August 2019 - 21:46

See for yourself. It was even Keke's car.

https://youtu.be/T205BULhzJM

Senna was in F3 in 1983 and dominating. In 1984 he made he F1 debut with Toleman.

No-one is disputing he tested for Williams in 1983.

In Keke Rosberg's Autobiography (which was written up to the end of the 1984 season) Keke says that Frank tried to 'trade' him for another driver in 1982


1982
1982
1982

#109 absinthedude

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Posted 12 August 2019 - 11:18

I concur, the driver to whom Keke refers cannot be Senna. 

 

Andrea de Cesaris wasn't so much a late bloomer because he never won a GP and did show promise in his early years....but he went from "de Crasheris" to a consistent performer in the 1990s.



#110 chr1s

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Posted 12 August 2019 - 19:26

I haven't given up hope of one day meeting Keke so I can ask him myself!



#111 sopa

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Posted 12 August 2019 - 19:54

Wait, why would Williams have wanted to get rid of Rosberg during 1982? If anything, they had problem filling the second seat after Reutemann had left.



#112 Mohican

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Posted 12 August 2019 - 20:29

Nobody here has mentioned Clay Regazzoni, who won only his fourth (I think) F1 race at the 1970 Italian GP; at the age of 31. And he was very nearly champion in 1974.

#113 piket

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Posted 13 August 2019 - 17:55

Patrick Tambay!

He was a virtual unknown who had nothing much to show for his previous races when Ferrari brought him on board to replace the stricken Villeneuve, and he immediately became an amazing front-runner, scoring more points during his time in 1982 than any other driver during the same races.


Patrick was definitely not unknown. He got the Mclaren seat in 1978 in my opinion on merit, in front of Gilles. He had beautiful results for a newcomer with Ensign. I think he started racing incredibly late, like at 21.

At the time in 1982 he was winning for Haas in the States.

Late bloomer? Far from it.

#114 chr1s

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Posted 13 August 2019 - 18:15

Wait, why would Williams have wanted to get rid of Rosberg during 1982? If anything, they had problem filling the second seat after Reutemann had left.

The perception inside Wiiliams at that time was that he was under performing. Obviously Frank felt that some one else could do better.



#115 sopa

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Posted 13 August 2019 - 18:36

The perception inside Wiiliams at that time was that he was under performing. Obviously Frank felt that some one else could do better.

 

Then this would have meant Williams would have needed 2 new drivers for 1983, because Daly was definitely underperforming.



#116 hogstar

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Posted 15 August 2019 - 17:07

Then this would have meant Williams would have needed 2 new drivers for 1983, because Daly was definitely underperforming.

 

Correct. However, it would have been a huge embarrassment for Williams and quite possibly they would have tried to stop the 'trade' with whoever the team/driver was. 

 

I still find it hard to fathom how short sighted Williams were with Keke. He drove the hell out of anything you gave him, which they later acknowledged. It wasn't as though the FW08 was great either. It was good, but at most, the fourth best car, with a major power disadvantage and not even the best Cosworth car - that was the Brabham 49D, which Bernie dropped after an ultimatum from BMW. 



#117 Tim Murray

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Posted 16 August 2019 - 05:58

In the issue covering the 1982 Long Beach GP, Motoring News had a couple of paragraphs on who Williams were looking at to replace Reutemann. Andretti had stood in at Long Beach, but his Indycar commitments ruled him out. Test driver Jonathan Palmer was committed to his F2 programme, plus Frank considered him too inexperienced at that stage.

MN reckoned that the two drivers Frank was actively pursuing were Derek Warwick and Nigel Mansell. Toleman had indicated that they might be willing to release Warwick, but Lotus had completely rejected any potential move for Mansell.

As we know, Frank eventually opted for Daly. However, if later on he was considering swapping Keke, Warwick and Mansell must still have been high on his list.

#118 pitlanepalpatine

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Posted 16 August 2019 - 06:05

I'm reading the question as who has stepped up in the second half of their careers.

I'm not sure if we have one atm.  Sainz looks to be on that track.  Perhaps Kyvat, but I think we need to see another season or two to anoint his second coming is for good.  

 

Perez and Hulk are now pretty much what they were after their second seasons. Neither have really met their initial guestimations. Ricciardo's first year bested a 4 time champ, and has continued such form.

 

Well to be fair, while his time at Macca was dire Perez is capitalizing on getting podiums at least. Hulkenberg is probably gonna be this generations Heidfeld.



#119 BiggestBuddyLazierFan

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Posted 16 August 2019 - 06:55

Well to be fair, while his time at Macca was dire Perez is capitalizing on getting podiums at least. Hulkenberg is probably gonna be this generations Heidfeld.


Heidfeld stood on the podium

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#120 ElectricBoogie

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Posted 16 August 2019 - 08:47

Sainz seems to be coming of age. Althought the teammate he is somewhat ahead of is a rookie with much shorter route to F1.
Having been initially lauded for one lap pace and not much else was against a 17 year old rookie (one season in cars versus his 5) that was consciously taking it easy early on to not risk even more drama than already chased him around in the sport.
Sainz looks a good F1 driver now. Better than I expected him to grow to be when Max got promoted.



#121 NoForumForOldPole

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Posted 19 August 2019 - 22:36

Damon Hill was a late Bloomer into F1

He has never driven gokarts, never won an F3000 (now F2) race and I don't think he ever won any other championship apart from F1 which he started at the age of 32 and won at 36. To put things into perspective he did his first full season in car racing at 25 (4 years older then Max now)!

He is true late bloomer.

Edited by NoForumForOldPole, 19 August 2019 - 22:46.