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OFFICIAL - Arrow McLaren Racing SP will enter the full 2020 IndyCar season


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#101 AustinF1

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Posted 10 August 2019 - 17:33

 It's almost certain Alonso won't go full time, but will join for Indy 500.

 

It is?



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#102 AustinF1

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Posted 10 August 2019 - 17:35

Meh not a big loss for Honda. Keeping Rossi and Andretti was much more important for us than SPM or journeyman Hinch.

McLaren are just going to add some extra funds to an existing team, I don’t think this is that big of a deal for the series. I don’t expect a title challenge from them next year, it’ll be Penske vs Dixon vs Rossi as usual.

Us? Are you with Honda?



#103 10e10

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Posted 10 August 2019 - 18:02

As a fan I'm really happy that McLaren is joining the series. I hope this isn't just a livery and cash injection and it's instead a proper full operating team. I always wanted to see McLaren race in more than just F1, so it will be even more interesting to follow Indycar now.



#104 BiggestBuddyLazierFan

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Posted 10 August 2019 - 18:05

Goddamn McLaren is unrecognizable in this post-Dennis era.

I'm saying this in the best terms possible. I am enthralled with the vibe and vision of the team - Zak B, Seidl and De Ferran seem to be what the team really needed. Also I love both of their current F1 drivers and that thing with Wickens is pure class. I'd loooooove to see Hinch drive a McLaren.

Orange is my favorite color too; dare I say ? Am I becoming a McLaren fan ? Is this the real life ?


Why are you wearing Pink Avatar the whole day

One would assume youre Stroll fan

#105 red stick

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Posted 10 August 2019 - 18:07

Just go the whole way and give the cars the full spa-day treatment with saunas and face-masks and they'll be championship contenders soon enough...

 

Would that it were so simple . . . 



#106 loki

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Posted 10 August 2019 - 18:42

Yeah that was pretty much confirmed. The team will be based in the US, SPM continues as is, and McLaren team will meet with them and try to find ways in which they can help the team. One aspect I can see is perhaps using their simulation/race strategy software to improve competitiveness of the team on race day. Not sure how advanced it is in other teams, but F1 teams have dozens of people analyzing data during the race, going so far to having a test driver in a simulator try out changes during the race.

 

 

Indycar has or can rent the same sims as are used in F1.  Same with CFD and Matlab.  Feeding data back from sensors to pit wall isn't allowed in Indycar so there won't be a team of engineers at home base pouring over the data.  Since it's pretty much a spec series except for suspension components and brakes (there are a few other things as well) there isn't much to engineer for the car design.  That's where the modern shock wars come from.  Indycar is about changing setups in real time using engineering and driver feed back along with the experience of that particular car, driver and track.  

 

One place where McLaren can help is in the shock program.  As long as they make shocks that the experienced Indycar engineers need it should be fine.  The problem with the Indycar effort is they ran it top down from Woking with a bunch of people that had no Indycar experience let alone oval experience.  I don't doubt the F1 gays and gals can learn Indycar but it's going to take more than a season to get the nuances and application of the tech.



#107 Joseki

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Posted 10 August 2019 - 19:26

@NDIndycarfan with McLaren joining #indycar, will the current Arrow SPM engineers be replaced with McLaren ones? (Hoping not)

@marshallpruett Heard of one change today while driving down to be with my wife, Tanner.



Interesting.

Edited by Joseki, 10 August 2019 - 19:26.


#108 CPR

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Posted 10 August 2019 - 19:51

Indycar has or can rent the same sims as are used in F1.  Same with CFD and Matlab.  Feeding data back from sensors to pit wall isn't allowed in Indycar so there won't be a team of engineers at home base pouring over the data.  Since it's pretty much a spec series except for suspension components and brakes (there are a few other things as well) there isn't much to engineer for the car design.  That's where the modern shock wars come from.  Indycar is about changing setups in real time using engineering and driver feed back along with the experience of that particular car, driver and track.  
 
One place where McLaren can help is in the shock program.  As long as they make shocks that the experienced Indycar engineers need it should be fine.  The problem with the Indycar effort is they ran it top down from Woking with a bunch of people that had no Indycar experience let alone oval experience.  I don't doubt the F1 gays and gals can learn Indycar but it's going to take more than a season to get the nuances and application of the tech.


McLaren have said that the IndyCar programme will be run from the US. My impression is that they're going to slowly build up things over time and it'll largely be up to the US team to pull things in as required.



#109 CPR

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Posted 10 August 2019 - 19:53

Some more comments from Zak - basically that they wouldn't have done Indy full time if the F1 team wasn't in a good place.
https://www.motorspo...rtscar/4511674/
 

Brown said that without such a turnaround, he probably wouldn’t have considered approaching the McLaren board members or commercial partners about joining forces with the Arrow Schmidt Peterson Motorsports team and returning to IndyCar racing full-time in 2020.

“We’ve definitely made progress but we’ve a long way to go,” he said. “Number 1 on the checklist when deciding when or if we go IndyCar racing is that it cannot be a distraction from Formula 1. We need to have the Formula 1 [team] on a strong foundation.

“Put aside commercial partners… If I didn’t feel that Formula 1 was going in the right direction and I had all my leadership in place – Andreas Seidl [team principal], James Key [technical director], etc. – I wouldn’t have brought IndyCar forward if I didn’t feel the two could run in parallel, complement each other commercially, but have zero distractions to each other’s program from an on-track point of view.

“If this was 2018, I don’t think [IndyCar] would have been something I even brought forward because I would have felt we weren’t ready to take on another project.”



#110 ArrowsLivery

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Posted 10 August 2019 - 19:53

Us? Are you with Honda?


It’s a common phrase in sports talk. I am not literally an employee of Honda, but I am a big fan and I do own some of their products.

#111 FLB

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Posted 10 August 2019 - 20:07

@NDIndycarfan with McLaren joining #indycar, will the current Arrow SPM engineers be replaced with McLaren ones? (Hoping not)

@marshallpruett Heard of one change today while driving down to be with my wife, Tanner.



Interesting.

Former Ferrari race engineer Dave Greenwood just went to Brown's (and Richard Dean's) United Autosports, as they are just entering the FIA WEC... But perhaps there's been a reshuffling of cards recently?



#112 rabbitleader

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Posted 10 August 2019 - 21:54

It’s a common phrase in sports talk. I am not literally an employee of Honda, but I am a big fan and I do own some of their products.


Not common in motor sport. More football where the general IQ level is lower.

Edited by rabbitleader, 10 August 2019 - 21:55.


#113 jonpollak

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Posted 10 August 2019 - 21:58

Only if your a Blues fan.
Jp

#114 BJHF1

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Posted 10 August 2019 - 22:38

It’s a common phrase in sports talk. I am not literally an employee of Honda, but I am a big fan and I do own some of their products.


Lol don’t worry about it. I see the “us/we” talk in the Mclaren thread all the time and people generally don’t bat an eye....they probably just own a Mclaren t shirt or cap at best.

Edited by BJHF1, 10 August 2019 - 22:39.


#115 AustinF1

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Posted 11 August 2019 - 00:40

Not common in motor sport. More football where the general IQ level is lower.

Yeah that was why I was kinda curious, and Honda aren't really a team.



#116 loki

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Posted 11 August 2019 - 01:42

McLaren have said that the IndyCar programme will be run from the US. My impression is that they're going to slowly build up things over time and it'll largely be up to the US team to pull things in as required.

According to SPM McLaren didn't buy the team and have no ownership stake.  It's being called a strategic alliance.  I see it more like a super sponsorship that includes technical, commercial and marketing support.  It was the quickest way to get McLaren into the field but they aren't going to be contending for the win anytime soon.  It will be an orange SPM car thrashing about the mid-pack with some more backing and tech support.  All in all I see it as a positive but some of the press coverage is selling it as they're a Goliath coming in.



#117 loki

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Posted 11 August 2019 - 01:49

Not common in motor sport. More football where the general IQ level is lower.

 

 

Yeah that was why I was kinda curious, and Honda aren't really a team.

 

Ya'll need to get ya out to some Cup races.    :lol:

 

With the hardcore fans the royal we monicker happens a fair amount of the time.  It's driver oriented not so much the teams.  It's spoken like they're right there in the car with the driver.  It's got more to do with the cultural connection to the sport and driver.



#118 Docc

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Posted 11 August 2019 - 03:12

Alonzo has nothing to gain doing full season.. Indycars are no power steering..have more aggressive drivers..much closer racing..where contact is pretty much assumed. Cars forcing 3 wide in turns going all "Indycar".. Then add in a mid pack team..SPM..swamped by Andretti..Penske etc..on tracks he is unfamiliar..

Love to see him at Road America..Mid Ohio..Barber..Long Beach etc...then street courses.. No 1/4 mile run off..walls..and being the target of every driver making a name by eating Alonzo..

Just a fraction of the money,,staying in a motel in Sheboygan or Plymouth ?

 

 

What's in it for him ?

Just Indy 500..


Edited by Docc, 11 August 2019 - 04:29.


#119 jonpollak

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Posted 11 August 2019 - 05:09

Last piece of the puzzle.
Jp

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#120 loki

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Posted 11 August 2019 - 05:49

I'd bet on Alonso for the Indianapolis 500 Mile Race in 2020.  I'd bank on it.  The Dakar I'm not so sure.  On another forum there are guys that work and drive/have driven Dakar and they've not heard anything that would suggest it.  At least not right now.

 

You guys can't see Fred staying at the La Quinta in Sheboygan?  :lol:

 

He could always helo in from the big city.  Green Bay.  The Holiday Inn Express there isn't bad.  Free breakfast.

 

In Des Moines the Lumberyard would keep him entertained...



#121 PayasYouRace

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Posted 11 August 2019 - 07:17

According to SPM McLaren didn't buy the team and have no ownership stake. It's being called a strategic alliance. I see it more like a super sponsorship that includes technical, commercial and marketing support. It was the quickest way to get McLaren into the field but they aren't going to be contending for the win anytime soon. It will be an orange SPM car thrashing about the mid-pack with some more backing and tech support. All in all I see it as a positive but some of the press coverage is selling it as they're a Goliath coming in.


But SPM contend for wins now. Or at least, they did more regularly when they had Wickens in a car. What’s going to go worse for the team with this deal? As long as they have a good driver they should be up there.

#122 HistoryFan

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Posted 11 August 2019 - 07:28

it's a shame that McLaren joining IndyCar doesn't pimp up the amount of cars on the grid.



#123 PayasYouRace

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Posted 11 August 2019 - 07:29

Pimp My Ride, Indycar edition?

#124 Frood

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Posted 11 August 2019 - 07:42

Pimp My Ride, Indycar edition?


Presented by Scott Dixzibit?

#125 Imperial

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Posted 11 August 2019 - 08:56

Alonzo has nothing to gain doing full season.. Indycars are no power steering..have more aggressive drivers..much closer racing..where contact is pretty much assumed. Cars forcing 3 wide in turns going all "Indycar".. Then add in a mid pack team..SPM..swamped by Andretti..Penske etc..on tracks he is unfamiliar..
Love to see him at Road America..Mid Ohio..Barber..Long Beach etc...then street courses.. No 1/4 mile run off..walls..and being the target of every driver making a name by eating Alonzo..
Just a fraction of the money,,staying in a motel in Sheboygan or Plymouth ?


What's in it for him ?
Just Indy 500..


Perhaps just that he is a racing driver would be reason enough.

#126 Anja

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Posted 11 August 2019 - 09:45

Yeah that was why I was kinda curious, and Honda aren't really a team.

 

Which doesn't stop it from having fans approaching a "religious zealot" level for some reason. I never understood where does that come from. 



#127 Joseki

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Posted 11 August 2019 - 11:16

Honda isn't even a solid entity in IndyCar. There is HPD and Honda and we know they have opposite views about McLaren.

#128 Miles749

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Posted 11 August 2019 - 11:21

Indycar has or can rent the same sims as are used in F1.  Same with CFD and Matlab.  Feeding data back from sensors to pit wall isn't allowed in Indycar so there won't be a team of engineers at home base pouring over the data.  Since it's pretty much a spec series except for suspension components and brakes (there are a few other things as well) there isn't much to engineer for the car design.  That's where the modern shock wars come from.  Indycar is about changing setups in real time using engineering and driver feed back along with the experience of that particular car, driver and track.  

 

One place where McLaren can help is in the shock program.  As long as they make shocks that the experienced Indycar engineers need it should be fine.  The problem with the Indycar effort is they ran it top down from Woking with a bunch of people that had no Indycar experience let alone oval experience.  I don't doubt the F1 gays and gals can learn Indycar but it's going to take more than a season to get the nuances and application of the tech.

 

Thank you for the explanation. Looks like they will probably help out with the shocks then, perhaps by giving them enough money to do it right or with other types of assistance. One thing that Zak Brown said was that there will be no overlap between F1 team and IndyCar team, no one will work on both at the same time. 

 

About the sims, I am thinking that McLaren probably has more resources in that department than SPM had and that it might be one area where McLaren resources get used. 

 

BTW: I am really surprised Honda seems to be keeping the grudge. What better way would be to make amends than to get McLaren running a Honda engine (in IndyCar) and for Zak Brown/Alonso to sing them praises if they get a good result. This is not a situation like in F1 where Honda could be miles off, in IndyCar Honda will be there or thereabouts, surely getting a decent share of wins with teams running their engine. Keeping a grudge for so long seems quite childish. I'm surprised it appears to be the case. 


Edited by Miles749, 11 August 2019 - 11:25.


#129 red stick

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Posted 11 August 2019 - 12:48

BTW: I am really surprised Honda seems to be keeping the grudge. What better way would be to make amends than to get McLaren running a Honda engine (in IndyCar) and for Zak Brown/Alonso to sing them praises if they get a good result. This is not a situation like in F1 where Honda could be miles off, in IndyCar Honda will be there or thereabouts, surely getting a decent share of wins with teams running their engine. Keeping a grudge for so long seems quite childish. I'm surprised it appears to be the case. 

 

We only know what was said in public.  Who knows what was exchanged behind the scenes?  Because, yes, this is real vendetta territory.



#130 Myrvold

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Posted 12 August 2019 - 04:17

Nope. Hinch is Honda. He'll leave.


Lol. 10 points to me :D


Wrong again!

#131 loki

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Posted 12 August 2019 - 04:41

But SPM contend for wins now. Or at least, they did more regularly when they had Wickens in a car. What’s going to go worse for the team with this deal? As long as they have a good driver they should be up there.

They have seven wins in almost 7 seasons.  Wickens got some top 5s and did well but they weren't consistently in the hunt.  Pagenaud did pretty well back in 2014-2015.  I don't think anything is going to be worse for the team under the deal as long as DeFerran and Brown stay out of the way.  If that happens they should have the resources to build a top shelf shock program.  It's going to be a season or two before I see them challenging the big three on a consistent basis.



#132 jonpollak

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Posted 12 August 2019 - 04:47

Lol. 10 points to me :D


Wrong again!


Yes but we embrace losers here on Chez Indycar.
Jp

#133 SonGoku

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Posted 12 August 2019 - 08:53

The fact that they want to give up their Honda ambassador they supported his whole career says a lot for me. They won't ever admit it and say all the right things, but now the chance to work with McLaren again came up, they showed their real feelings.

Edited by SonGoku, 12 August 2019 - 08:54.


#134 Myrvold

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Posted 12 August 2019 - 11:18

Yes but we embrace losers here on Chez Indycar.
Jp

Ah, that's why I feel so welcome!  :cat:



#135 Joseki

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Posted 12 August 2019 - 11:43

McLaren still hasn't confirmed Hinchcliffe as a driver, a few days after his Twitter post.

#136 red stick

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Posted 12 August 2019 - 12:24

Marshall Pruett pointed out the same on his McLaren SPM podcast--that Hinch has a contract and has expressed an interest in staying, and McLaren may want him, but it hasn't confirmed that. Yet.

#137 Mohican

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Posted 12 August 2019 - 12:31

It may be that Hinch wants McLaren rather more than the other way round; or not - his tweet may have been an invitation for them to buy him out.

#138 red stick

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Posted 12 August 2019 - 13:00

It seems that Ericsson is gone either way--on the same podcast MP stated that he has heard nothing that indicates SPM was working on keeping him.



#139 juicy sushi

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Posted 12 August 2019 - 20:36

Re: Honda grudges. After Bobby Rahal gave up on year two of his Honda program in 1995, he didn’t get a look in for a decade. HRD may feel differently, but Honda in Japan have long memories and strong feelings.

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#140 maximilian

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Posted 12 August 2019 - 20:44

I would be surprised if Ericsson has even a snowball's chance in ISM Raceway of staying on, with all the other fascinating options McLaren has.  Nice guy, and I like that he has become a fan of the series, too, so hopefully he will take his funding to a smaller team that needs it, and helps them grow a la Chilton.



#141 Radoye

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Posted 12 August 2019 - 23:59

I would be surprised if Ericsson has even a snowball's chance in ISM Raceway of staying on, with all the other fascinating options McLaren has.  Nice guy, and I like that he has become a fan of the series, too, so hopefully he will take his funding to a smaller team that needs it, and helps them grow a la Chilton.

 

Actually Carlin would be a good fit for him, replacing Chilton so they have at least one guy who runs the entire season.



#142 Muz Bee

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Posted 13 August 2019 - 00:33

Regards Honda's boycott of McLaren and Alonso, who looks worse, Honda or McLaren? Or do we really give a flying fig? We can examine the racing record and Honda certainly contributed in a significant way to the three year disaster that was McLaren Honda.

 

I think McLaren taking their orange brand into Indy will expand the Indycar audience. I think it will provide TransAtlantic opportunities in both directions, for engineering, and the driver pool. I think it will enhance sponsorship opportunities, especially since USA is outstripping the rest of the world economy. 

 

Clearly McLaren is big on heritage - they're proud and they play it big on their website. However different the world of racing is since McLaren M16s became the dominant Indycar chassis of the first half of the 1970s they will carry some good seed into an Indycar program. Interesting that Indy doesn't show up on the heritage page of their website https://www.mclaren..../heritage/cars/ with all their other gorgeous cars (including CanAm). I bet that changes soon. Not betting on any early wins though, as they need plenty of time to learn a whole new game.

 

After the 2019 McLaren Indy debacle I said on this forum (no rocket science) that if they with Alonso were to ever become competitive at Indy 500 they would need to have a multi-car, all rounds team. Maybe they will be ready to win again in 2021, more likely 2022, about the earliest they could expect to reach the top step in F1. With the modest budgets needed to go Indycar racing I see no reason that it will adversely affect their upward swing in F1.


Edited by Muz Bee, 13 August 2019 - 00:37.


#143 maximilian

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Posted 13 August 2019 - 03:07

Actually Carlin would be a good fit for him, replacing Chilton so they have at least one guy who runs the entire season.

 

I don't think Chilton will be replaced... his dad bought into the team, and as long as junior can race, I think we'll see him in the 59, maybe sitting out ovals except the Indy 500... but we'll see him.  Ericsson in the OTHER full time car... sure, why not?  (presuming guys like Pato and Daly don't miss out on a seat displaced by Ericsson, in which case I might have a fit!)



#144 Radoye

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Posted 13 August 2019 - 15:17

I don't think Chilton will be replaced... his dad bought into the team, and as long as junior can race, I think we'll see him in the 59, maybe sitting out ovals except the Indy 500... but we'll see him.  Ericsson in the OTHER full time car... sure, why not?  (presuming guys like Pato and Daly don't miss out on a seat displaced by Ericsson, in which case I might have a fit!)

 

Yeah, that's kind of what i meant, Ericsson in the full time car, Chilly can then be in the other for the road/street races, and they can rent it out to the highest bidder for the ovals.



#145 AustinF1

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Posted 14 August 2019 - 16:08

Zak Brown set for IndyCar talks with Fernando Alonso at Monza: https://www.grandpri...-about-indycar/



#146 maximilian

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Posted 14 August 2019 - 16:21

I honestly don't know what else Fernando thinks he'd be doing in 2020.  Not F1.  Not WEC.  Dakar is over early January.  Even if he wants to run the Daytona 500, he can do so without problem.  Unless he intends to enter Formula E, or pull something weird like running Rallycross, there's really only ONE thing to do all season long:  IndyCar.  Surely he's not just gonna sit around all year doing almost nothing?


Edited by maximilian, 14 August 2019 - 16:22.


#147 AustinF1

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Posted 14 August 2019 - 16:25

I honestly don't know what else Fernando thinks he'd be doing in 2020.  Not F1.  Not WEC.  Dakar is over early January.  Even if he wants to run the Daytona 500, he can do so without problem.  Unless he intends to enter Formula E, or pull something weird like running Rallycross, there's really only ONE thing to do all season long:  IndyCar.  Surely he's not just gonna sit around all year doing almost nothing?

Who knows? Judging from his Instagram, he might be content to go a year without committing to a full race season program. WeWillSee...



#148 Muppetmad

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Posted 14 August 2019 - 16:39

Honestly, it'd be disappointing if Alonso didn't go for a full season. If a WEC season with only one other competitor was worthwhile, surely an IndyCar season with tremendous circuits and tremendous competition is also worth a year of his life.



#149 Anja

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Posted 14 August 2019 - 16:59

Who knows? Judging from his Instagram, he might be content to go a year without committing to a full race season program. WeWillSee...

 

I remember him saying how he wants to establish his legacy as a racing driver outside of F1 now that he's free to do so, and to be honest I feel like the execution of that plan has been kinda underwhelming. Sure he has Daytona, Le Mans and WEC, but in the end that's only a handful of races. Is that all he's gonna do?



#150 AustinF1

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Posted 14 August 2019 - 17:07

Honestly, it'd be disappointing if Alonso didn't go for a full season. If a WEC season with only one other competitor was worthwhile, surely an IndyCar season with tremendous circuits and tremendous competition is also worth a year of his life.

All he's said regarding a full IndyCar season is that he wouldn't be doing one in 2020. He can always do one later if he decides to. And who knows? Maybe he'll do 2020 after all ...

 

I remember him saying how he wants to establish his legacy as a racing driver outside of F1 now that he's free to do so, and to be honest I feel like the execution of that plan has been kinda underwhelming. Sure he has Daytona, Le Mans and WEC, but in the end that's only a handful of races. Is that all he's gonna do?

He's literally been gone from F1 for less than 9 months (if you don't count testing). And he also has several other good races in there as well. What were you expecting in the first 9 months?


Edited by AustinF1, 14 August 2019 - 17:20.