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WOW! Alexander Albon has been promoted to Red Bull Racing to drive alongside Max [edited]


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#501 A3

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Posted 13 August 2019 - 13:10

He didn't, he heard it in the news!

Source? Hard to believe.

Edit, google translated from https://rmcsport.bfm...on-1747843.html

Pierre Gasly has learned this morning at 9 am on his vacation location the decision made by his team to downgrade at Toro Rosso, according to our information. A surprising announcement knowing that he had received, a few days ago, new guarantees from his bosses.

A bad relationship with the engineers
His entourage regrets that he was not put in the best conditions to run, at least not the same as those enjoyed by his teammate Max Verstappen. The fault, too, to a bad relationship with his engineers.

Contacted by RMC Sport, Pierre Gasly's lawyer said he will now "show his true value in a team he loves and with whom he has already proven, Toro Rosso".


Edited by A3, 13 August 2019 - 13:17.


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#502 SenorSjon

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Posted 13 August 2019 - 13:37

Really? There are so many young British drivers that it’s hard for any of them to stand out. By using his Thai nationality, he’s tapping into attention that nobody else would be getting.

 

This is a British board while F1 has mostly British based teams and a lot of British press surrounding F1. Look how the press jumped on Russell, Norris, etc. Albon had it relatively easy, F1 is a non event in Thailand.

 

Everyone saying how much better Max is, are just ignoring the fact he got all the experienced engineers, that can account for A LOT.

 

He didn't last year and didn't do to shabby then, did he?



#503 Thatfastguy

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Posted 13 August 2019 - 13:55

Everyone saying how much better Max is, are just ignoring the fact he got all the experienced engineers, that can account for A LOT.

 

What proof do you have of this?

 

Furthermore, Max has been fast since day 1 in TR so engineers didn't really seem to matter. 



#504 ANF

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Posted 13 August 2019 - 14:36

Source? Hard to believe.
 

Pierre Gasly has learned this morning at 9 am on his vacation location the decision made by his team to downgrade at Toro Rosso, according to our information. A surprising announcement knowing that he had received, a few days ago, new guarantees from his bosses.

A bad relationship with the engineers
His entourage regrets that he was not put in the best conditions to run, at least not the same as those enjoyed by his teammate Max Verstappen. The fault, too, to a bad relationship with his engineers.

Contacted by RMC Sport, Pierre Gasly's lawyer said he will now "show his true value in a team he loves and with whom he has already proven, Toro Rosso".


Edit, google translated from https://rmcsport.bfm...on-1747843.html

Well, like I said, I hope Albon will accept playing second fiddle to Verstappen (and be ready to collect the points/podiums/more when things don't go his way).

Edited by ANF, 13 August 2019 - 14:40.


#505 KeithD68

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Posted 13 August 2019 - 14:38

Gasleys confidence will be in tatters

#506 Paco

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Posted 13 August 2019 - 15:13

Gasleys confidence will be in tatters


As it has been, not will be.

#507 potmotr

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Posted 13 August 2019 - 15:18

Falling out with your race engineer, especially at a team of the calibre of Red Bull, is surely a reflection on a driver not holding up his end of the bargain and looking for people to blame and whinge at. Classic Gasly.



#508 SenorSjon

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Posted 13 August 2019 - 16:43

Falling out with your race engineer, especially at a team of the calibre of Red Bull, is surely a reflection on a driver not holding up his end of the bargain and looking for people to blame and whinge at. Classic Gasly.


That was also said by Marko a few races ago, that he should stop blaming everything but himself. I don't think he lacked support, but do you focus on your fast, WDC material guy or the rookie crashing development parts?

#509 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 13 August 2019 - 17:27

Falling out with your race engineer, especially at a team of the calibre of Red Bull, is surely a reflection on a driver not holding up his end of the bargain and looking for people to blame and whinge at. Classic Gasly.

surely that's not the way to do anything right.

At the same time we don't know a lot about what actually happens, not sure there is a lot of data for "classic Gasly". That seems a bit unfair. He's a young driver that failed



#510 TomNokoe

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Posted 13 August 2019 - 19:20

Also wildly disagree with the notion that "if Albon doesn't perform then Kvyat gets another chance in 2020".

It ain't happening.

In fact, let me repeat, I don't think Kvyat had anything to do with this. I've seen so many theories.

- He was asked but said no because of family or to stick it to RB (lol ok)
- He's already signed to another team for 2020 (yeah right)
- They're keeping him warm for 2020 (nope)
- Marko couldn't swallow his pride

etc, etc, etc.

Kvyat holds cult status in F1 but the sympathy train is in overdrive. Almost as bad as the JEV outcry.

The only infinitesimally small chance he has is if:

1. Albon performs worse than Gasly - this is unlikely because Albon will be driving a Red Bull far more competitive than Gasly had. It will be much easier to finish 6th. Bonus points for confidence and new driver bump.

and

2. Kvyat destroys Gasly - again unlikely unless Gasly absolutely flops big time. Kvyat will need to be hitting Q3 and points a lot. Although not as unlikely as point 1, the chance of both happening concurrently is low.

It exasperates me, genuinely. Maybe I'm wrong :stoned:

Edited by TomNokoe, 13 August 2019 - 20:02.


#511 Collective

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Posted 13 August 2019 - 19:57

 

 

Max is considered a generational talent and he's a product of the RB junior team. 

 

The "product of the RB junior team" is just not true. They signed him straight into F1 because he had been so good at karting and F3, but they didn't finance any of that. They were the ones that could offer him a race seat in F1, something the other top teams couldn't, so he went there.

 

I reckon he would have impressed as much in any other team as he did in Toro Rosso, I don't think Red Bull can take credit for Max.

 

 

 

That said, people need to have some perspective, without Red Bull, what would Albon, Kvyat and Gasly's career have looked like? I doubt anything close to driving a top 3 F1 car. The hate they are getting for promoting drivers is unreal.. I think it's great that they take these gambles. And they even re-sign drivers into the program... like Hartley, Kvyat and Albon himself. 


Edited by Collective, 13 August 2019 - 19:59.


#512 RedRabbit

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Posted 13 August 2019 - 20:57

Hungary was the straw that broke the camels back it seems.

When they see max woop the ferraris and realise they will still unlikely get second in the constructors.

Be interesting to see how competitive rb will be at SPA


I think you spot on here about Hungary being the tipping point for Gasly. At first there was anger that they demolished the Ferrari's but scored the same number of points in the WCC.

Then, and I reckon this is what killed off Gasly at RBR - they quickly worked out that the car was fast enough to be within a pit stop of Hamilton. This would have denied Merc the option they took of pitting Ham for fresh tires.

Ultimately, Gasly cost RBR a well deserved victory. Max was calm about it after the race, but I wonder how Jos felt? It's not an impossible scenario that he pressured RBR into demoting Gasly, or Max walks off to Merc?@

#513 HeadFirst

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Posted 13 August 2019 - 21:36

He didn't, he heard it in the news!

 

I didn't realize that, I thought RB had more class.



#514 noikeee

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Posted 13 August 2019 - 21:47

If they really did sack him through the news just 2 weeks after they said to the press he was safe for the rest of the year, they are scum. But I find that one hard to believe.



#515 Viryfan

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Posted 13 August 2019 - 22:14

Nah he got a phone call from the team at 9 am on monday.

#516 BillBald

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Posted 13 August 2019 - 22:52

The "product of the RB junior team" is just not true. They signed him straight into F1 because he had been so good at karting and F3, but they didn't finance any of that. They were the ones that could offer him a race seat in F1, something the other top teams couldn't, so he went there.

 

I reckon he would have impressed as much in any other team as he did in Toro Rosso, I don't think Red Bull can take credit for Max.

 

 

 

That said, people need to have some perspective, without Red Bull, what would Albon, Kvyat and Gasly's career have looked like? I doubt anything close to driving a top 3 F1 car. The hate they are getting for promoting drivers is unreal.. I think it's great that they take these gambles. And they even re-sign drivers into the program... like Hartley, Kvyat and Albon himself. 

 

Out of the 4 drivers they have in F1, 2 have had their career ruined by being promoted too quickly, and I'm pretty sure that the same will happen to Albon.

 

The reason they brought these guys back, is because their program is failing to deliver.

 

I think it's time they faced reality, and looked at established drivers from outside their program. With the car and the team they have, they could have anyone who is not driving for Merc, and maybe at least one who currently is.



#517 Rodaknee

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Posted 14 August 2019 - 05:15

I think you spot on here about Hungary being the tipping point for Gasly. At first there was anger that they demolished the Ferrari's but scored the same number of points in the WCC.

Then, and I reckon this is what killed off Gasly at RBR - they quickly worked out that the car was fast enough to be within a pit stop of Hamilton. This would have denied Merc the option they took of pitting Ham for fresh tires.

Ultimately, Gasly cost RBR a well deserved victory. Max was calm about it after the race, but I wonder how Jos felt? It's not an impossible scenario that he pressured RBR into demoting Gasly, or Max walks off to Merc?@

 

Gasly on old tyres against Hamilton on a new set.  You really believe he could have held the Mercedes for longer than a lap or two?



#518 Reddington

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Posted 14 August 2019 - 05:23

Gasly on old tyres against Hamilton on a new set.  You really believe he could have held the Mercedes for longer than a lap or two?

 

3 to maximum 4 laps would have been sufficient...

2 laps might have done the trick already. Lewis got by Max with three laps to go.


Edited by Reddington, 14 August 2019 - 05:24.


#519 Sndr

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Posted 14 August 2019 - 06:24

If they really did sack him through the news just 2 weeks after they said to the press he was safe for the rest of the year, they are scum. But I find that one hard to believe.

 

i've heard this a couple of times in this thread now and i think it's in reference to the french article posted earlier. my french is a bit rusty but all the article says is that gasly got the news at the place where he was/is vacationing - as in the team phoned him while he was on holiday.



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#520 SenorSjon

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Posted 14 August 2019 - 06:46

Gasly on old tyres against Hamilton on a new set.  You really believe he could have held the Mercedes for longer than a lap or two?

 

 

3 to maximum 4 laps would have been sufficient...

2 laps might have done the trick already. Lewis got by Max with three laps to go.

 

Past events where Gasly was on old tires, competition breezed right past him. He is not a good overtaker and gets overtaken easily. Not two virtues that get you much points. Perhaps RB worked that out as well, but just being around at 15s behind Lewis/Max, would close down the strategic option to stop.



#521 Maxioos

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Posted 14 August 2019 - 07:17

I didn't realize that, I thought RB had more class.

 

They have, it's not true. Just a lie to bash RBR.



#522 Baddoer

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Posted 14 August 2019 - 07:21

Gasly on old tyres against Hamilton on a new set.  You really believe he could have held the Mercedes for longer than a lap or two?

Nope. But Mercedes would be not so commited to the strategy they put Hamilton with Gasly inside their pit window.



#523 RedRabbit

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Posted 14 August 2019 - 07:21

Gasly on old tyres against Hamilton on a new set. You really believe he could have held the Mercedes for longer than a lap or two?


I'm saying if he was in that space, it's unlikely Merc would have taken that strategic gamble at all. Hungary is a difficult track to pass on, and overtaking 2 cars is a much bigger risk, especially if one driver is quite clumsy still when going wheel to wheel.

#524 Maxioos

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Posted 14 August 2019 - 07:21

Out of the 4 drivers they have in F1, 2 have had their career ruined by being promoted too quickly, and I'm pretty sure that the same will happen to Albon.

 

The reason they brought these guys back, is because their program is failing to deliver.

 

I think it's time they faced reality, and looked at established drivers from outside their program. With the car and the team they have, they could have anyone who is not driving for Merc, and maybe at least one who currently is.

 

Nonsense, just hate talk. You talk as if they have a right of a career or something like that.

 

It's not their program that is failing, just some drivers, like in every sport some sporters don't make it on highest platform.

 

And again, Kvyat himself contacted Marko for the STR seat. How is that a "career ruined" action by RBR?

 

They do it far better then any other F1 team. Far better.



#525 JBJ

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Posted 14 August 2019 - 07:24

Out of the 4 drivers they have in F1, 2 have had their career ruined b

:rolleyes:  those 2 are still in F1



#526 Maxioos

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Posted 14 August 2019 - 07:24

Nope. But Mercedes would be not so commited to the strategy they put Hamilton with Gasly inside their pit window.

 

I truly don't believe any driver would be within 20 seconds. at that point of the race. Ricciardo last year was often further behind on 3/4 race.



#527 messy

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Posted 14 August 2019 - 07:34

Nonsense, just hate talk. You talk as if they have a right of a career or something like that.

It's not their program that is failing, just some drivers, like in every sport some sporters don't make it on highest platform.

And again, Kvyat himself contacted Marko for the STR seat. How is that a "career ruined" action by RBR?

They do it far better then any other F1 team. Far better.


They do, undoubtedly. It’s a bit cut-throat and I think Kvyat especially could feel very aggrieved in 2016 because they blatantly were always going to sacrifice him for the “special one” as soon as they could get away with it - but no other junior programme has given young drivers the sort of opportunities Red Bull’s have. Sure, some of them don’t make the grade but why would they? And actually, as Hartley and Albon have shown, they retain an interest even in the drivers they drop which is nice.

Mercedes and Ferrari have a far more hitty-missy junior scheme. McLaren’s is pretty good, but very focused on occasional special talents rather than the scope of the Red Bull programme.

Edited by messy, 14 August 2019 - 07:37.


#528 RA2

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Posted 14 August 2019 - 07:45

Gasly should be looked at like Gresjean, He might improve the second half of this year, but be back to his old ways next year. Why should Red Bull continue risking the seat with a inconsistent driver? 



#529 masa90

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Posted 14 August 2019 - 07:47

That was pretty much only Silverstone. Hockenheim and Hungaroring were back to fighting the midfield. 

 

Agree. And even there he had to rely on others crashing.
 



#530 messy

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Posted 14 August 2019 - 07:47

Gasly’s been pretty consistent really hasn’t he? Consistently slow.

#531 itsgreen84

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Posted 14 August 2019 - 08:44

That was pretty much only Silverstone. Hockenheim and Hungaroring were back to fighting the midfield.


And that was only because Vettel torpedoed Max, otherwise he would have been 6th...

#532 Viryfan

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Posted 14 August 2019 - 08:58

Gasly should be looked at like Gresjean, He might improve the second half of this year, but be back to his old ways next year. Why should Red Bull continue risking the seat with a inconsistent driver? 

 

Grosjean showed some speed instantly against Kimi hence why they kept him.

 

He may have crashed often but had speed.

 

Also they found the flaw which made him slow at the end of 2012- beggining of 2013.

 

He repaid the faith by beating Massa in 2013. 

 

Alas in the case of Gasly, he never showed any kind of speed against Max.


Edited by Viryfan, 14 August 2019 - 08:58.


#533 SenorSjon

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Posted 14 August 2019 - 09:26

And that was only because Vettel torpedoed Max, otherwise he would have been 6th...

 

Not only that, he was passed by Leclerc for the podium while the RB race pace was better in Britain. Also, Verstappen gained on him while driving a crippled car (iirc, broken seat, no power steering, and aero damage).



#534 jacdaniel

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Posted 14 August 2019 - 09:32

I imagine Red Bull had planned to keep Gasly. He was slowly starting to show something, although not much.

But the Max started winning and they realize that Ferrari are there for the taken. But they need a better second driver.

Why not take a gamble on Albion? Nothing to lose, sure Gasly is offering basically nothing in terms of points.

#535 Marklar

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Posted 14 August 2019 - 09:38

Marko basically says they demoted Gasly because he cant overtake :p

https://www.autobild...z-15451103.html

Edited by Marklar, 14 August 2019 - 09:38.


#536 A3

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Posted 14 August 2019 - 09:46

I didn't realize that, I thought RB had more class.


Since when do people take what's written on a focum for a fact? I asked for a source on that but never got an answer. Fact is, the only website saying something about how Gasly received the news said "he learned he was demoted a couple of hours before the official press release."

Edited by A3, 14 August 2019 - 09:49.


#537 SenorSjon

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Posted 14 August 2019 - 09:57

He had a fine Germany Q with a time within a tenth of Verstappen before it got deleted. It all went downhill after that. 

 

 

Marko basically says they demoted Gasly because he cant overtake :p

https://www.autobild...z-15451103.html

 

Not only that, he also loses places a lot and can't handle traffic.

 

And we've seen Gasly in front of Verstappen after the start in Austria, yet Verstappen overtook him and the other cars in front quite easily while Gasly lingered behind them and saw Verstappen again around lap 65 where he got lapped. To add insult, Verstappen had 34 laps faster than the fastest lap from PG and did that from lap 33 onwards (thus he was faster with half a fuel tank filled vs Gasly on near empty). In Hungary, Verstappen had 29 laps faster than his FL. That is almost half a race again.



#538 femi

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Posted 14 August 2019 - 11:06

I didn't realize that, I thought RB had more class.

I thought I read he heard the news from reporters...apparently misunderstood or not. I remember thinking how poor that was from RB but seeing how they treated Renault, I wasn't too surprised. I apologise to RB if I was wrong about Pierre G.



#539 messy

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Posted 14 August 2019 - 11:07

Marko basically says they demoted Gasly because he cant overtake :phttps://www.autobild...z-15451103.html


Never really been a racer, has he? Thinking back to his GP2 title season, Giovinazzi was far superior in terms of racecraft but when Gasly joined the dots he won the feature races from pole.

Edited by messy, 14 August 2019 - 11:07.


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#540 BillBald

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Posted 14 August 2019 - 11:10

Nonsense, just hate talk. You talk as if they have a right of a career or something like that.

 

It's not their program that is failing, just some drivers, like in every sport some sporters don't make it on highest platform.

 

And again, Kvyat himself contacted Marko for the STR seat. How is that a "career ruined" action by RBR?

 

They do it far better then any other F1 team. Far better.

 

 

:rolleyes:  those 2 are still in F1

 

 

These are non-points. The reason why these rejected drivers are still driving for the Red Bull 'B' team is because the driver program is failing so badly.

 

In recent years, Red Bull (or should it be Marko?) seem to be obsessed with not losing face. They made a very rapid decision to promote Kvyat, because they wanted to pretend that losing Vettel was no big deal. Now that Gasly was clearly failing, they can't re-promote Kvyat (reversal of their previous decision), so it's the rookie Albon who has to be sacrificed.

 

Clearly they are hoping that another Max will emerge to save their bacon.

 

They should just admit their failure, it would be less painful for everyone.

 

Edit: typos


Edited by BillBald, 14 August 2019 - 11:58.


#541 TomNokoe

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Posted 14 August 2019 - 11:19

Makes you wonder what happened in Silverstone for him to put in such a strong (pace and racecraft) performance.

 

Perhaps lends weight to the comments about struggling with his engineers and setup. His Silverstone weekend was far more representative as to what we expected and is more in line with "Toro Rosso Gasly".

 

Depends how much you believe a driver plays a role in getting the best out of his team, etc.

 

It's funny how perception can change. Last year Gasly was an accomplished and promising Grand Prix driver, by all accounts. Whereas this season he's been an amateurish mess with absolutely no aggression. Doesn't really make sense.


Edited by TomNokoe, 14 August 2019 - 11:27.


#542 sopa

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Posted 14 August 2019 - 11:41

Never really been a racer, has he? Thinking back to his GP2 title season, Giovinazzi was far superior in terms of racecraft but when Gasly joined the dots he won the feature races from pole.

 

Weird to think that the GP2 title contenders of 2016 are now the two big flops of the F1 season.



#543 Laptom

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Posted 14 August 2019 - 12:21

Out of the 4 drivers they have in F1, 2 have had their career ruined by being promoted too quickly, and I'm pretty sure that the same will happen to Albon.

The reason they brought these guys back, is because their program is failing to deliver.

I think it's time they faced reality, and looked at established drivers from outside their program. With the car and the team they have, they could have anyone who is not driving for Merc, and maybe at least one who currently is.


That is nonsense, they delivered Sainz, Vettel, Verstappen, Ricciardo with success.
DK should still make it in the F1. This is his 3rd or 4th chance in F1, so don't say that RB isn't loyal.

#544 SenorSjon

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Posted 14 August 2019 - 13:33

Makes you wonder what happened in Silverstone for him to put in such a strong (pace and racecraft) performance.

 

Perhaps lends weight to the comments about struggling with his engineers and setup. His Silverstone weekend was far more representative as to what we expected and is more in line with "Toro Rosso Gasly".

 

Depends how much you believe a driver plays a role in getting the best out of his team, etc.

 

It's funny how perception can change. Last year Gasly was an accomplished and promising Grand Prix driver, by all accounts. Whereas this season he's been an amateurish mess with absolutely no aggression. Doesn't really make sense.

 

Gasly just seems to go well around Silverstone looking at his records.

 

That is nonsense, they delivered Sainz, Vettel, Verstappen, Ricciardo with success.
DK should still make it in the F1. This is his 3rd or 4th chance in F1, so don't say that RB isn't loyal.

 

Verstappen wasn't a RB product.



#545 noikeee

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Posted 14 August 2019 - 14:07

Makes you wonder what happened in Silverstone for him to put in such a strong (pace and racecraft) performance.

Perhaps lends weight to the comments about struggling with his engineers and setup. His Silverstone weekend was far more representative as to what we expected and is more in line with "Toro Rosso Gasly".

Depends how much you believe a driver plays a role in getting the best out of his team, etc.

It's funny how perception can change. Last year Gasly was an accomplished and promising Grand Prix driver, by all accounts. Whereas this season he's been an amateurish mess with absolutely no aggression. Doesn't really make sense.


It all reminds me of Kovalainen at Mclaren (although much worse, as Kova was nowhere near as slow as this). Kova also had both very promising highs and some dodgy lows in his rookie year for Renault, just like Pierre did last year for TR - but couldn't handle the pressure once he was in a big team and up against a star driver, and just progressively got worse as he lost confidence.

#546 noikeee

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Posted 14 August 2019 - 14:11

Weird to think that the GP2 title contenders of 2016 are now the two big flops of the F1 season.


That season on hindsight looks like a pretty weak grid. Sometimes it happens, it's a poor generation and there's no clear direct comparison to others before and after so we don't immediately realise it. Giovinazzi hadn't looked any particularly special in F3 before, and Gasly had struggled to impress the previous years - famously spending those 2 years without winning any race - although he had occasional blitzing pace. And those "previous years" were those dominated by Vandoorne... Who we also overrated slightly as he'd turn out not as good as expected in F1.

#547 ElectricBoogie

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Posted 14 August 2019 - 14:17

That is nonsense, they delivered Sainz, Vettel, Verstappen, Ricciardo with success.
DK should still make it in the F1. This is his 3rd or 4th chance in F1, so don't say that RB isn't loyal.

Verstappen was taken from the Ferrari academy and talks with Mercedes. Only reason he signed was that they offered a drive with STR, no ifs or buts. He drove with Red Bull logo on his F3 car after that, but can't be considered a Red Bull driver. Sainz, long on the program, 4 years more singleseater experience, all that support and tuition from RB, got owned to the point of it getting ugly even at engineering level. Sainz and Verstappen have been fine with other team mates since. Verstappen was even fine with beast RIC. Sainz is even fine with Max 2.0, Norris.



#548 A3

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Posted 14 August 2019 - 14:27

Max was never in the Ferrari academy. He got "invited" for the Florida winter series organised by the Ferrari driver academy. That's it.

#549 JBJ

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Posted 14 August 2019 - 14:39

. Sainz is even fine with Max 2.0, Norris.

Whoa Nelly



#550 JBJ

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Posted 14 August 2019 - 14:41

 

 

 

Verstappen wasn't a RB product.

damned if you do, damned if you don't
Half this forum is saying RB should hire drivers from outside the RB program, the other half is reminding everyone which drivers aren't RB products