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Bommarito 500 @ Gateway presented by harmony and non-controversy


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#1 Risil

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Posted 23 August 2019 - 17:16

NTT Data Indycar Series Round 15 of 17: The World Wide Technology Raceway (???) at Gateway, St Louis
Gateway-Gallery-1.jpg
I hope you enjoyed this week! After a race – well, a lap really – at Pocono when Indycar’s profile took a reverse nose dive towards mass relevance by having a driver people have sort of heard of upside down and on fire, the relentless Indycar tour of incident and merriment rolls into St Louis, Missouri with the promise of nightfall, speed and hopefully passing at the uncannily 1920s-sounding World Wide Technology Raceway, formerly known as Gateway, formerly known as That Race CART Used To Schedule On The Same Weekend As The Indy 500. I assume the racetrack is named after the Gateway Arch, which, er, arches across the Mississippi River. Presumably it’s a gateway to the Great American West, or perhaps to the blue-brown wobbly thing that links up with New Orleans, although since history ended and time was declared a flat circle, it may just be another broken image in the thrice-shuffled Tarot deck the world has come to resemble. While Wikipedia steers clear of such metaphysical flapping, it does put the arch down as “Missouri’s Tallest Accessible Building”, which raises Missouri questions all of its own.
 gateway-arch-dawn.jpg
Anyway. This is a lot of waffle to say: Indycar race. Gateway. Saturday night. Good.
 
Here is the schedule; or, Whenabouts On Saturday Night?
This one is a two-day event, because why not? We get Indy Lights and the NASCAR equivalent of the Vanarama Conference too. Times below are Missouri time, which Google tells me is 6 hours behind Airstrip One. Perhaps it’ll be dark by the end of the race, or perhaps not.
 
Friday, 23 August
1pm: Indycar practice 1
5.15: Indycar qualifying
6.30: Ex-Mazda Pro 2000 qualifying
7.30: Indy Lights qualifying
8.15: Indycar practice 2
 
Saturday, 24 August
1.45pm: Pro 2000 race
3.25: Indy Lights race
4.35: NASCAR K&N Series Monaco 125
7: Indycar Bommarito 500(km) GO
gateway.jpg
What’s up with this track then
Gateway is one of those tricky ovals shaped like an irregular polygon, which makes it essentially a road course. It’s one-and-a-quarter miles long, which no other oval is, which sort of adds to the sui generis, take some risks, we-don’t-know-what-we’re-doing late 1990s CART feel of the track. It works, anyway. Here’s a video with bright colours and James Hinchcliffe’s hands that shows you what the lap looks like. One of the corners is tighter than the other. See if you can guess which one:
 

 
More urgently, this is the last oval of the year. I don’t know if there are any Indycar drivers left who are awful on ovals, but what is a fact is that the last two Gateways were won and fairly dominated by Team Penske. While nothing could possibly be as memorable as Paul Tracy taking out his teammate Dario Franchitti there in 1999, still pretty memorable was Josef Newgarden almost taking out his teammate Simon Pagenaud in 2017, but instead merely taking the lead and putting one hand on whatever big trophy it is that they hand out at the end of the season. Those Penske boys! Anyway, I assume they’ll be tough to beat. Less bleedingly obviously, a look through the past two years shows unexpected fifths for Zach Veach (2018) and Conor Daly (2017). These twilight races seem to throw up odd results as the track cools, setups go off and drivers are inhabited by the primal spirits dividing the night from the day, so keep an eye out for the lower reaches of your spotter’s guide.
DlZeH79VAAAAnun-800x533.jpg
The points table being what it is, with Josef Newgarden maintaining about a win’s distance from Alexander Rossi, Simon Pagenaud and Scott Dixon and a likely double-points shitshow still to come at Laguna Seca, nothing as decisive is likely to happen this weekend. That is unless Josef somehow manages to knock all three of his championship rivals into the wall, which given what happened last Sunday we shouldn’t entirely rule out. Speaking of the points table, the mostly-invisible Ryan Hunter-Reay has collected enough finishes for sixth spot in the championship. Oh yeah, Indycar, it’s so competitive, anyone can win. Fact: 2013 had mostly the same drivers as today and Marco Andretti ended the year fifth. That was a sour note to commemorate Ryan Hunter-Reay’s 250th Indycar start, which is an impressive achievement given that he started the decade without a full-time drive despite winning his first race as a Young American all the way back in 2003. So apologies and congratulations (congratupologies?) to him.
RyanHunterReay-2002.jpg

Anything else we should know about?
The Spotter’s Guide here will take you through all the shiny liveries that will look extra shiny under the big lights and sort of muted and attractive in the dusk. Conor Daly is borrowing Max Chilton’s dad’s Gallagher car, Ed Carpenter is in, Simon Pagenaud is in the truly offensive Menards yellow, and Felix Rosenqvist is swapping his usual NTT Data blue for a spiffy and somewhat NASCAR-y Monster Energy paintjob and stickers. So it’ll be 22 starters, 248 laps. The rest of the field is running out of chances to do something out of the ordinary and reel in Mr Four-Wins Newgarden. Might happen.



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#2 maximilian

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Posted 23 August 2019 - 17:22

Splendid!  Thank you for the OP.   FINALLY another IndyCar race!  Cant wait!!!  :love:  :clap:



#3 paulb

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Posted 23 August 2019 - 17:31

Yay, lets move from Poco-oh-no-Sato and onto Gateway!

On a non-Indycar note, whats up with the name of the K&N race, “Monaco”???

Risil, fwiw the opening image is not showing up in the thread. It opens separately for me.

Edited by paulb, 23 August 2019 - 17:35.


#4 Risil

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Posted 23 August 2019 - 17:32

I was hoping someone would ask that because I have no idea. However I am seized with an intense interest to see stock cars racing round Monte Carlo. I bet one of those could keep David Coulthard behind them for 30 laps.



#5 milestone 11

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Posted 23 August 2019 - 17:41

6 hour time difference in UK and here in the too warm Canaries. So 23.00 tonight and 01.00 Sunday morning. I suspect that I'll be catching up at more sensible time.

#6 boomn

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Posted 23 August 2019 - 17:45

Yay, lets move from Poco-oh-no-Sato and onto Gateway!

On a non-Indycar note, whats up with the name of the K&N race, “Monaco”???

Risil, fwiw the opening image is not showing up in the thread. It opens separately for me.

Looks like it is "Monaco Cocktails"

 

I still prefer the classic Interlagos Cocktails.  But don't count out Azerbaijan Cocktails; they're better than they sound! 



#7 PayasYouRace

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Posted 23 August 2019 - 17:46

This will help me get into the correct sleep patterns for starting on the night shift at work on Tuesday night. I'm looking forward to this race. I missed the last couple and they've apparently been the best oval races about.



#8 paulb

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Posted 23 August 2019 - 17:47

Looks like it is "Monaco Cocktails"

I still prefer the classic Interlagos Cocktails. But don't count out Azerbaijan Cocktails; they're better than they sound!

Hmmm, 9.0% alcohol, my avatar approves.

#9 Imperial

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Posted 23 August 2019 - 17:50

Enjoy the race dudes and dudesses.

I’m away for the last UK Bank Holiday weekend, staying with “our kid” in erm...sunny Bolton. Apparently sometimes it doesn’t rain here!!

So the Sky+ box is all set, I may not see this one until the middle of next week.

Yikes!!!
.

Edited by Imperial, 23 August 2019 - 17:51.


#10 Henri Greuter

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Posted 23 August 2019 - 17:59

Hope I can see this one, sooooo fond memories about this track! Have driven it too!

Was there in 2000, I love the short ovals.



#11 red stick

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Posted 23 August 2019 - 18:03

I don't mind day-glo.  Probably a side product of my cycling attire.  Go Simon!



#12 B Squared

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Posted 23 August 2019 - 18:06

Just so everyone knows, short ovals are not all sweetness and light either. I had lunch with Jim Hickman a few hours before his fatal accident at Milwaukee in 1982. God forbid there's a serious accident or some on this board will want to see our sport banned in its entirety.

Edited by B Squared, 24 August 2019 - 03:27.


#13 ANF

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Posted 23 August 2019 - 18:15

After Pocono it's good to see them moving on to a slower and safer oval.



#14 rghojai

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Posted 23 August 2019 - 18:22

Omani IndyCat in Oman does not care to see illustrations with lines on tracks.

 

rN3zSQ3.jpg



#15 Henri Greuter

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Posted 23 August 2019 - 18:59

Just so everyone knows, short overalls are not all sweetness and light either. I had lunch with Jim Hickman a few hours before his fatal accident at Milwaukee in 1982. God forbid there's a serious accident or some on this board will want to see our sport banned in its entirety.

 

As for the '82 adventure, yikes...

 

But then, given the fact that in the case of a crash the effect of the speed is to the second power,  (V squared...    :)   ) the chances for a driver at slamming the wall with 190 are quite a bit better than that they are with 230.

For hitting fence poles, well,

 

Anyway, though I am certainly aware of what you mean and warn for, the odds for something going terribly wrong is, regret to say, in theory much higher at Pocono or another Superspeedway than at St Louis. NASCAR isn't avoiding those extreem speeds that Indycars are doing ot such tracks for nothing.

 

Back to St Louis, Hopefully the spectators will also get a lot of opportunities to see older cars being demonstrated again. Last year they really did a good job on that I was told.


Edited by Henri Greuter, 23 August 2019 - 18:59.


#16 jonpollak

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Posted 23 August 2019 - 19:49

Prediction :
Sato goes up to 27% crash rate.

Jp

#17 red stick

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Posted 23 August 2019 - 20:50

Anybody on the thread at Gateway for firsthand reporting?



#18 prommer

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Posted 23 August 2019 - 21:31

Great OP as always Risil! In the interest of harmony and comity I will let Eero Saarinen slowly spin in his grave over your ham-handed elucidation of the meaning of the Gateway Arch, and not take up the cause on his behalf. And anyway, there's a Black Adder reference in there, so that makes up for just about anything.... except HOW DARE YOU LINK TO THAT 1999 incident between Franchitti and Tracy.  What were you thinking!!!?!?!

 

... I mean, the engine sound from that year is pure porn.  It shouldn't be allowed.

 

Will the hybrids sound like that at least?



#19 ezequiel

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Posted 23 August 2019 - 21:50

Santucci goes quickest in practice, Ericsson second. Penskes don't look dominating.



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#20 BuddyHolly

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Posted 23 August 2019 - 22:09

Here to watch qualy, sadly I have to record the race tomorrow as the wife insists I take her out.   hmppff



#21 Risil

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Posted 23 August 2019 - 22:09

Great OP as always Risil! In the interest of harmony and comity I will let Eero Saarinen slowly spin in his grave over your ham-handed elucidation of the meaning of the Gateway Arch, and not take up the cause on his behalf. And anyway, there's a Black Adder reference in there, so that makes up for just about anything.... except HOW DARE YOU LINK TO THAT 1999 incident between Franchitti and Tracy. What were you thinking!!!?!?!

... I mean, the engine sound from that year is pure porn. It shouldn't be allowed.

Will the hybrids sound like that at least?


Ham-handed elucidation? I'll take my compliments where I can get them.



#22 BuddyHolly

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Posted 23 August 2019 - 22:31

I've only been watching indycars this season so I know next to nothing about it still but..  I have to ask, is Marco Andretti only driving because of his last name, is he another Bruno Senna?

 

(Not just because of this mistake but I've not really seen him do one impressive thing all season)


Edited by BuddyHolly, 23 August 2019 - 22:31.


#23 PayasYouRace

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Posted 23 August 2019 - 22:41

Marco looked like he had a bit of promise once upon a time. He even has a couple of wins. One at Sonoma and one at Iowa. Recently he’s just been nowhere though.

#24 jonpollak

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Posted 23 August 2019 - 22:47

Boy that Fiorucci has his car tailored perfectly
Jp

#25 ezequiel

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Posted 23 August 2019 - 22:49

Coyne cars quick



#26 Risil

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Posted 23 August 2019 - 22:51

They sure look like they've found something lately.



#27 jonpollak

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Posted 23 August 2019 - 22:57

Seabass !!!!!
Incroyable. !!!!
Jp

#28 BuddyHolly

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Posted 23 August 2019 - 23:03

C'mon Pag.. get your clog down matey!



#29 jonpollak

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Posted 23 August 2019 - 23:17

JoNew baby...
Massive qualy !!
Jp

#30 red stick

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Posted 23 August 2019 - 23:19

Andretti cars look to be battling uphill.

#31 McLaren1702

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Posted 23 August 2019 - 23:30

Stunning quali laps by Newgarden. 186.5 mph. Worthy of a champion, I'd say. A shame tomorrow will be the last oval race already, these races fly by so fast!

#32 Jim Thurman

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Posted 24 August 2019 - 01:01

I don't mind day-glo.  Probably a side product of my cycling attire.  Go Simon!

 

Andretti cars look to be battling uphill.

 

I'm very disappointed in these poems or Haiku. You've done far better (and folks, this is just kidding, but apparently smilies are routinely misinterpreted, so...)



#33 Jim Thurman

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Posted 24 August 2019 - 01:10

Just so everyone knows, short overalls are not all sweetness and light either. I had lunch with Jim Hickman a few hours before his fatal accident at Milwaukee in 1982. God forbid there's a serious accident or some on this board will want to see our sport banned in its entirety.

 

No, Brian, just ovals. Road course or street course fatalities are explained away as "flukes." As I've attempted to point out, only to apparently fall on deaf ears, there is the matter of how much more oval racing has gone on, and continues to go on, than folks familiar only with road racing are aware of. That lack of knowledge/awareness leads to a distorted viewpoint.



#34 red stick

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Posted 24 August 2019 - 01:22

I'm very disappointed in these poems or Haiku. You've done far better (and folks, this is just kidding, but apparently smilies are routinely misinterpreted, so...)

 

:cool:



#35 Tsarwash

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Posted 24 August 2019 - 02:09

Just so everyone knows, short overalls are not all sweetness and light either. I had lunch with Jim Hickman a few hours before his fatal accident at Milwaukee in 1982. God forbid there's a serious accident or some on this board will want to see our sport banned in its entirety.

I have the upmost respect for you and Jim and others here, but I do not believe that a single person here wants to see the sport banned. Wanting to see if serious accidents can be reduced is not the same as wanting the sport banned. 



#36 jonpollak

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Posted 24 August 2019 - 02:33

JoNew In mysterious late session engine drama...
Can Penske fix it. ???
Jp

#37 maximilian

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Posted 24 August 2019 - 04:21

Prediction :
Sato goes up to 27% crash rate.

Jp

 

 

Boooo, hiss!  :down:



#38 maximilian

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Posted 24 August 2019 - 04:25

A blown Newgarden engine would be just what the doc ordered to get this championship tightened up... as strong as he looked so far, a runaway win could be in the cards, and would not bode well for the last 2 races title race... 



#39 rghojai

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Posted 24 August 2019 - 04:25

I'm very disappointed in these poems or Haiku. You've done far better (and folks, this is just kidding, but apparently smilies are routinely misinterpreted, so...)

 

Erudite IndyCat says:

 

 

Jim Thurman is crass

Has no sophistication

(winking emoji)

 

vLY5UQy.jpg



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#40 jonpollak

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Posted 24 August 2019 - 06:35

Boooo, hiss! :down:


But I’ve picked him for this race !!
.... so he had better deliver the goods.
Jp

#41 Disgrace

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Posted 24 August 2019 - 06:39

Time for Marco to call it a career? Then again, I'm not sure Uber are in a position to pay for his wages.



#42 loki

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Posted 24 August 2019 - 06:56

Good to see Lil Al back at the track working.  Hope he’s doing well in his recovery.



#43 BiggestBuddyLazierFan

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Posted 24 August 2019 - 07:10

I've only been watching indycars this season so I know next to nothing about it still but.. I have to ask, is Marco Andretti only driving because of his last name, is he another Bruno Senna?

(Not just because of this mistake but I've not really seen him do one impressive thing all season)


No, he is not Bruno Senna

Bruno Senna was a talented driver whose progress was abruptly hated after his uncle died. Family forbid him to race. Only when he was 18 he continued. But the damage was already done. (besides his father died too within years of uncle)

Marco on the other hand was a project of his father and grandfather and was racing since he could walk. He had everything handed to him on the silver plate.

The only thing he was deprived of was...

... his talent

#44 noriaki

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Posted 24 August 2019 - 07:27

I've only been watching indycars this season so I know next to nothing about it still but.. I have to ask, is Marco Andretti only driving because of his last name, is he another Bruno Senna?

(Not just because of this mistake but I've not really seen him do one impressive thing all season)

It's a whole different case to Bruno Senna. Watch the 2006 Indy 500 highlights for example, his rookie year - 19 years old. https://youtu.be/6ohLu35GpAk

The thing is, he *was* promising. Granted, not quite Colton Herta style of raw demonic speed promising - but still, people were really asking, was he gonna be as good as Mario and Michael, would Honda snap him up to F1. But Marco never truly delivered on that promise. He was good for occasional top 3 finishes but regularly balanced that out with silly errors, only ever saw the Victory Lane twice, peaked before the age of 24 and has consistently just become worse and worse since then.

Graham Rahal is an interesting comparison point with Marco because he was almost on a similar downward trajectory, although that descent was even faster. Was put in the car at a very young age because of his name, showed initial promise, winning one race but never a second, didn't seem to thrive in the pressure involced in being an IndyCar driver, and eventually had a couple of *terrible* years in 2013 and 2014, I mean, Marco 2019 bad. At age 25. People even in these threads wanted his head, thinking he was done for good, only driving because Daddy Rahal employs him.

But then something very inexplicable happened between 2014 and 2015 (read: he got a new crew chief) and Graham 2.0 bursted to the scene out of nowhere, leading with a Honda powered RLL car the most unlikely championship challenge that I have ever seen in a year where Chevrolet cars were vastly overpowered. As I recall, he had a real shot until the second-to-last race at Pocono where Tristan Vautier put him out, though that incident was later overshadowed by something way worse in Wilson's death. (Eventually Power did something destructive to Penske teammate JPM's shot and Dixon won. But I digress.) Many pundits considered Graham the driver of the year for his effort.

Anyway, my point being - Graham 2.0 is a pretty solid driver now, even if his general lack of quali prowess has kept him out of title fights since that one year. So maybe Michael just saw Bobby get rewarded of his patience and has thought that Marco 2.0 will some day just have to come out too...

Edited by noriaki, 24 August 2019 - 07:29.


#45 Risil

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Posted 24 August 2019 - 10:57

Marco's problem is not talent. He's a natural behind the wheel but shows this increasingly rarely. I reckon about 5 years ago he should've left Andretti Autosport and struck out on his own, Lewis-style.

He reminds me most of all of those F1 drivers we don't seem to get anymore, like Stefano Modena or Heinz-Harald Frentzen, who got labelled "moody" or "enigmatic". Perhaps not at that level of speed, not that there's any way of knowing.

#46 Vitesse2

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Posted 24 August 2019 - 11:11

Time for Marco to call it a career? Then again, I'm not sure Uber are in a position to pay for his wages.

BuddyHolly won't get that reference.

 

For anyone else confused, back in 2016 Paul Tracy suggested on commentary that Marco's next drive should be for Uber ...

 

 

Marco did get him back though!

 



#47 Muppetmad

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Posted 24 August 2019 - 11:13

This is Marco's fourteenth season with Andretti in IndyCar. For whatever reason, it hasn't worked for him for quite a few seasons now. I think he needs to go to another team to try to recapture some of is earlier form - and if he can't get an offer elsewhere, then... well, that says it all really.



#48 red stick

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Posted 24 August 2019 - 12:45

Marco has an ownership interest in his team, evidently preparing for the next stage of his career.  Which makes him IndyCar's first pay-owner?



#49 B Squared

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Posted 24 August 2019 - 13:10

My guess is that all owners have money in the game mate.

#50 B Squared

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Posted 24 August 2019 - 13:21

I have the upmost respect for you and Jim and others here, but I do not believe that a single person here wants to see the sport banned. Wanting to see if serious accidents can be reduced is not the same as wanting the sport banned.

Thanks for the nice word, but if you're serious about avoiding this type of accident, start working for the series and maybe you can get all the way to chief steward and run the driver's meetings raceday morning and remind them that they have the ultimate control of preventing this type of lap one accident.