1003 replies to this topic

[TomNokoe]

F1 returns from the summer break to the mystical Spa-Francorchamps! If the calendar were a golf course, we'd be starting the Back 9 (and Spa is definitely a Par 5!).

After four fantastic grand prix we arrive at a fans' favourite... steeped in history (and forestry), a high-speed thrill ride that can be savoured no matter the result.

 

Will Ferrari finally win a Grand Prix - an overdue Leclerc victory or the conclusion of Vettel's redemption arc?

Can Bottas do anything to stop Hamilton, or will Lewis step it up a gear after the break?

Just how will Alex Albon settle in to Red Bull?

Will Kimi prove he really is the King of Spa?

Can Renault take the fight to McLaren in the race for 4th?

Can Williams build on their Hungarian encouragement?

 

Many are driving for their seats, with action and drama aplenty, will we see a FIVE-star Belgian Grand Prix? 

 

Circuit
 

 

 

The last dry-weather pole-lap from 2017 - two years of development will look much different this year.



Tyres

A step harder compared to last year.
 

 

Schedule

Standard Liberty European timing (CEST)

 

FP1 1100-1230

FP2 1500-1630

FP3 1200-1300

Q 1500-1600

R 1510-1710

 

Weather

European weather is strange

 

Friday - 21-23°C, sunny

Saturday - 27-28°C, sunny

Sunday - 15-16°C, cloudy

 

--

Assorted engine upgrade rumours, "Pouhon is no longer a corner" complaints and obscure Raidillon memes welcome below ...

 

(and a reminder we have Formula 2 and 3 this weekend)

 

YAY F1 IS BACK

Edited by TomNokoe, 30 August 2019 - 14:31.

[f1paul]

Will we see Verstappen take a 1000 grid place penalty but still start just outside the top 10?

 

F1 is back. 

[Muz Bee]

Nice intro to the eagerly anticipated "second half" Tom. And could I add

 

How will Gasly get on against Kvyat back at Torro Rosso?

Will the fickle Spa weather defy the forecast?

Will Magnussen and Grosjean be able to resist their magnetic attraction?

Will the high speed nature show up a lack in the Honda PU in Verstappen's Red Bull?

Will the silly season announcements start over the weekend? Mercedes? Renault? Haas?

Will Renault C-spec show up well in either team?

Will we get a fifth straight brilliant Grand Prix since Austria two whole months ago?

 

Not just because of the nature of the glorious Spa circuit, I can't remember how long since a mid season race was so eagerly anticipated. 

[SenorSjon]

Will we see Verstappen take a 1000 grid place penalty but still start just outside the top 10?

 

F1 is back. 

 

With Renault also swapping engines around, we could have tier 1 and 2 qualifying. Remember, this year they have to qualify for their grid spot instead of working out who had 30 and who had 40 places penalty. So Verstappen could qualify 13th.

[statman]

the obligatory Spa gif:

 

Edited by statman, 28 August 2019 - 10:07.

[Hela]

F1 is back from the summer break........YES !!!

 

[TheFish]

Wow, no-one fancies those hard tyres.

 

Odds on seeing them in the race as a really good tyre for the race?

[milestone 11]

Strange tyre choice by Merc.

[TomNokoe]

Wow, no-one fancies those hard tyres.

 

Odds on seeing them in the race as a really good tyre for the race?

Last year was an easy one-stop on a green track with slightly softer tyres.

This year's C3 will go easily half the race, especially considering the cooler temps. (Unless Saturday temps are pushed back until Sunday).

 

 

Strange tyre choice by Merc.

They'll either run 2x M in FP1 to get them out of the way or run M-S in all three practice sessions. The C2 and C3 are very similar compounds anyway.

They might defer in FP3 and run S-S for quali prep, saving an extra set of M for Q2 but there's really no need as they'll take the mandated 1x new H and 1x new M into qualifying anyway. Tyre wear isn't going to be a problem so no need for contingency plans (like running 2x M in Q2).

 

Unless the thinner tread plays havoc and we have a 2011 repeat, it should be an easy weekend on tyres.

Edited by TomNokoe, 28 August 2019 - 11:39.

[Anderis]

the obligatory Spa gif:

 

I wonder what would happen if we have a crash like this nowadays with no spare cars in the pitlane. Would they cancel the GP or restart it with just like 4 cars?   

[CSF]

I wonder what would happen if we have a crash like this nowadays with no spare cars in the pitlane. Would they cancel the GP or restart it with just like 4 cars? 

 

They wouldn't even come close to starting the race because wet = evil. 

[Sunnny]

 

Not just because of the nature of the glorious Spa circuit, I can't remember how long since a mid season race was so eagerly anticipated. 

 

Huh you lost me there.   I can understand last year with the Merc v Ferrari battle mid season but there is nothing eagrly anticipated for this mid season, not even next year. 2021 is what we wait for. 

[Anja]

Huh you lost me there.   I can understand last year with the Merc v Ferrari battle mid season but there is nothing eagrly anticipated for this mid season, not even next year. 2021 is what we wait for. 

 

In times like these, the best thing you can do is treat F1 on race-to-race basis. Forget about the championship and just enjoy the races. It really helps. 

[george1981]

I wonder what would happen if we have a crash like this nowadays with no spare cars in the pitlane. Would they cancel the GP or restart it with just like 4 cars? 

 

Just start with whoever was left. There was another big start accident a few years later at the 2002 Austrailian GP where 8 cars were taken out at the first corner. That was dealt with under a safety car I think despite many people thinking the race would have been red flagged and then restarted which in those days would have allowed another 6 or 7 cars back into the race. 

[MKSixer]

It's like coming in from the desert...

 

Come on FP1!!!

[beachdrifter]

Can this track still produce good action in 2019? The shine from Spa seems to have really worn off in recent years. Or is that just my subjective impression? 

 

It used to be a highlight, but I'm not really expecting much from it now.

Edited by beachdrifter, 28 August 2019 - 12:19.

[Hela]

DRS Zone to be shortened for the race 

 

https://www.planetf1...ortened-by-20m/

 

The article says it has been shortened but then goes on to say 

 

Instead of beginning 230 metres away from the exit of Radillion, it will start 210m away 

 

Does that not mean it has been increased   

 

Maybe they got the distance mixed up

Edited by Hela, 28 August 2019 - 12:23.

[SilverArrow31]

DRS Zone to be shortened for the race 

 

https://www.planetf1...ortened-by-20m/

 

I really don't understand why the spent so much money increasing the power of the DRS with the new regulations for this year only to decrease the power by shortening the zones

[beachdrifter]

DRS Zone to be shortened for the race 

 

https://www.planetf1...ortened-by-20m/

 

Is this a first? A DRS zone shortened?   

[tyker]

They wouldn't even come close to starting the race because wet = evil. 

Well it would also show perhaps what can happen when you do grid starts on a wet track?

[beachdrifter]

I really don't understand why the spent so much money increasing the power of the DRS with the new regulations for this year only to decrease the power by shortening the zones

 

They would be looking for a certain balance, and it's track-specific. They don't want it to be too easy, either.

[Kalmake]

I really don't understand why the spent so much money increasing the power of the DRS with the new regulations for this year only to decrease the power by shortening the zones

How many zones have they shortened?

[Hela]

Is this a first? A DRS zone shortened?   

 

I think they have shortened DRS zones in the past before (can't remember where) I also think they have removed 1 in races where they had 2 DRS zones before 

 

I can't remember which races though 

[Hela]

How many zones have they shortened?

 

I think just 1 zone (Kemmel Straight) the start/finish straight I think remains the same 

Edited by Hela, 28 August 2019 - 12:27.

[beachdrifter]

I think they have shortened DRS zones in the past before (can't remember where) I also think they have removed 1 in races where they had 2 DRS zones before 

 

I can't remember which races though 

 

Google suggests shortening of DRS zones happened mainly in 2012.

 

They went from 3 zones to 2 in Hockenheim this year.

Edited by beachdrifter, 28 August 2019 - 12:36.

[Kalmake]

I think just 1 zone (Kemmel Straight) the start/finish straight I think remains the same 

I mean all season.

[dierome87]

It has become a borefest in recent years.

 

When was the last time we had a good race here? 2010?

Edited by dierome87, 28 August 2019 - 12:43.

[beachdrifter]

It has become a borefest in recent years.

 

When was the last time we had a good race here? 2010?

 

Ah, so it's not just me! 

 

Loved Spa in the Schumacher days.

[Hela]

It has become a borefest in recent years.

 

When was the last time we had a good race here? 2010?

 

2014 was okay, had a bit of drama

[Marklar]

DRS Zone to be shortened for the race

https://www.planetf1...ortened-by-20m/

The article says it has been shortened but then goes on to say

Instead of beginning 230 metres away from the exit of Radillion, it will start 210m away

Does that not mean it has been increased

Maybe they got the distance mixed up

they mixed it up. Event Notes say 230

[SenorSjon]

Can this track still produce good action in 2019? The shine from Spa seems to have really worn off in recent years. Or is that just my subjective impression? 

 

It used to be a highlight, but I'm not really expecting much from it now.

 

Yes, it got the tarmac treatment and that really took the shine off for me. I can't remember really notable races the last couple of years.

[Henri Greuter]

Huh you lost me there.   I can understand last year with the Merc v Ferrari battle mid season but there is nothing eagrly anticipated for this mid season, not even next year. 2021 is what we wait for.

 
 

In times like these, the best thing you can do is treat F1 on race-to-race basis. Forget about the championship and just enjoy the races. It really helps.

I understand what you mean.
But:

- when I read that in the past weeks Mercedes kept working on improving their engine
- when I remember that Mercedes had no opposition whatsoever in '14, 15 and '16, also in the second part of the year...
- When I remember that in the two years Mercedes had some opposition in the first part of the season but then came back from the summer break stronger than before, breaking down whatever opposition from other drivers outside the Mercedes organisation there might have been....


I dearly hope I'm awfully wrong but if all those trends continue, I fear we don't have much to expect much excitement the rest of the season.
But oh I'm hoping to be so wrong, so wrong.

[TomNokoe]

It has become a borefest in recent years.

When was the last time we had a good race here? 2010?

2011, 12, 14 and 17 were all okay just not memorable.

Bonus point for anyone who remembers the leader at the end of lap 1 in 2011

Edited by TomNokoe, 28 August 2019 - 13:09.

[P123]

It has become a borefest in recent years.
 
When was the last time we had a good race here? 2010?

Recent years? It's always been crap in the aero era (as in, going on 25+ years) apart from when it rains, and even then it can be crap too (see 2005). Then add on the Tilke upgrades of the past decade.... a vastly over-hyped circuit for modern day F1 cars.

[TomNokoe]

Anyway, my own thoughts for the weekend.

Ferrari have to be favourites. It's similar to last year, Ferrari are quick in S1+S3 but Mercedes will claw back time in S2. It seems like each team's relative strengths are even more pronounced this year.

I think Ferrari will have a comfortable 0.3-0.4s advantage over one lap. They've made gains recently that were disguised by the Hockenheim chaos and Hungary track layout. Harder tyres should help them, too.

The big question is Vettel or Leclerc. I suspect Vettel's qualifying woes will return unless he can somehow re-adapt to the low DF spec that saw him shine in Canada. I have one eye on the theory that Ferrari will again snatch defeat from the jaws of victory this weekend because of the remarkably intense intra-team battle. Harder tyres should help Leclerc.

Red Bull likely to be somewhere in between but strong in race-trim. Maybe now their famed aero efficiency will rise to the fore after years of compensating for Renault power. They were strong enough in Baku and that was a long time ago. Albon debut will be fascinating. Would love him to surprise Max.

Suspect the midfield will be closer than usual, especially the low drag Renault, McLaren and Alfa. The same Alfa that showed great speed in both Germany and Hungary. Seems to have developed really well recently. Surely a contender for best-of-the-rest in Kimi's hands. Renault need to seriously bounce back.

Gasly-Kvyat will be interesting if a little macabre. Haas anonymous as usual.

Racing Point have solid history here and need to make good on their recent upgrades.

Williams strengths seem to be higher DF so they may fall back from the pack again unless they bring a low DF package (they didn't in Baku or Canada).

Quali likely to be a slipstreaming battle again.

 

Weather is somewhat of a curveball with the massive fluctuations in temps. Slight threat of rain Sat/Sun.

Edited by TomNokoe, 28 August 2019 - 13:39.

[ANF]

they mixed it up. Event Notes say 230

It was 210 metres after T4 last year, so the zone has indeed been shortened.

Perhaps it has been shortened to avoid a repeat of the incident between Vandoorne and Bottas last year? Vandoorne tried to overtake on the outside of the unnumbered, unnamed right-hander that leads on to the Kemmel Straight. Bottas didn't see him and Vandoorne had to take to the grass.

Edited by ANF, 28 August 2019 - 14:35.

[Bleu]

Can this track still produce good action in 2019? The shine from Spa seems to have really worn off in recent years. Or is that just my subjective impression? 

 

It used to be a highlight, but I'm not really expecting much from it now.

 

Interesting that we haven't seen wet race since 2010. Few partly wet qualifyings but races have been dry.

[7MGTEsup]

Bonus point for anyone who remembers the leader at the end of lap 1 in 2011

 

Rosberg (although I looked it up as my memory doesn't work for most races for the last 15 years)

[eibyyz]

I wonder what would happen if we have a crash like this nowadays with no spare cars in the pitlane. Would they cancel the GP or restart it with just like 4 cars? 

 

Almost happened at Pocono...I'm still waiting for a 40-car at Talladega.  

[TomNokoe]

Rosberg (although I looked it up as my memory doesn't work for most races for the last 15 years)

Bonus point DENIED.

So many "average for 2011/2012" races would be heralded as great races nowadays. I turned Spa 2011 off after Hamilton crashed with Kobayashi, but the first 10 laps or whatever were pretty good

Edited by TomNokoe, 28 August 2019 - 15:05.

[Pimpwerx]

Recent years? It's always been crap in the aero era (as in, going on 25+ years) apart from when it rains, and even then it can be crap too (see 2005). Then add on the Tilke upgrades of the past decade.... a vastly over-hyped circuit for modern day F1 cars.

Keep talking all that mess, and we'll have to take this to the streets. Them's fightin' words.

 

I wonder if the Ferraris will have to lift either entering the Eau Rouge-Raidillon complex, or through Blanchimont, as a result of their high-powered, low-downforce rocketship carrying too much speed. Pre-reprofiling Eau Rouge, for sure.

 

Anyway, this was a long wait. I'll tacitly agree that the racing in the past decade has been a bit lackluster, but it's still Spa. It's still a great circuit. The lack of on-track action is not the circuit's fault, unless you dare to fault its grandiose nature. A lap of this track feels like the car is going somewhere. We don't get enough of that out-and-back feel on modern circuits.

[Marklar]

Not updated

[TomNokoe]

I wonder if the Ferraris will have to lift either entering the Eau Rouge-Raidillon complex, or through Blanchimont, as a result of their high-powered, low-downforce rocketship carrying too much speed.
 

Absolutely no chance. I was wondering something similar about Pouhon but I still think they'll be fine. Ferrari have very good high-speed downforce regardless (Germany T1 and T12 they were super quick).

Most cars have more downforce this year anyway because of the higher RWs.

They can likely carry a little more wing and still carry competitive straight-line speed, anyway, as they did in Baku.

Edited by TomNokoe, 28 August 2019 - 16:00.

[Vesuvius]

Vettel vs Leclerc, Vettel to win thanks to a better race pace. Kimi to be a surprise with Alfa.

Interesting to see how good is the new Mercedes PU, Wolff just said they have been working on with PU the whole summer break.

Edited by Vesuvius, 28 August 2019 - 16:27.

[w1Y]

Id be fully expecting teams to play the slipstream qualy trick and people will be watching for fake practice starts like what merc did. But if I'm a team i wonder if there is merit going out early and doing an extra very slow lap to position yourself for the slipstream.

Can't see anything other than a Ferrari pole.If they gain 0.6 in straights round certain tracks then it may be more here. Then it will be interesting to see how Ferrari fair in the bus stop and turn 1.

At last F1s back

[CSF]

Well it would also show perhaps what can happen when you do grid starts on a wet track?

 

Struggling to imagine it now with the grip levels of current cars. There is also a longer run into La Source, and a wider exit, meaning they should be split up more. 

[Atreiu]

2011, 12, 14 and 17 were all okay just not memorable.

Bonus point for anyone who remembers the leader at the end of lap 1 in 2011

 

I would have never remembered it.

 

In my mind Spa 2011 was another Red Bull freight train exibition from heads to tail, Alonso picked up the crumbles and Hamilton had a bad weekend.

[Marklar]

All I remember from 2011 was Maldonado and Hamilton's post-quali battle

[A3]

Can this track still produce good action in 2019? The shine from Spa seems to have really worn off in recent years. Or is that just my subjective impression?

It used to be a highlight, but I'm not really expecting much from it now.

Don’t know why but I was thinking the same.

[sportyskells]

hopefully no last minute change of plans as at the mo it looks like I be able to watch all this on Saturday without playing the old blackout thing of avoiding the results,. Will we see rain (but not Spa 24 hour type rain)?