11 replies to this topic

[NixxxoN]

I've seen a discussion somewhere about Albon's debut, making similar divebombings from far back, like Ricciardo used to do in the past, and its the final proof that the RB braking capability is insane as we've all seen, and its really not about the driver. Ric is not able to do it with the Renault

 

The rank would be like:

 

1- Red Bull

...

(big gap)

...

2/3 - Mercedes/Ferrari

...

(big gap)

...

4 to 10 - The rest

 

I wonder how they do that, do they use special brakes, or do they use aerodynamics in a clever way that it stops their car much more efficiently??

[Stephane]

I don't know, but that move from Albon on Stroll looked so unreal. 

[timmy bolt]

I think it's more to do with RBs high down force design philosophy.

High down force means more draggy and able to turn in at a higher speed on the corner.

I'm sure someone who understands aero better will come along shortly to explain....


Also you have to remember that if a driver doesn't think they can keep another driver behind for the duration, they may go a bit easier on the defence to save tyres and consider the long game.

[BalanceUT]

I think this is a particularly interesting question and hope that some experts in our forums lend their thinking. We focus a lot of raw horsepower. But, also important is the ability to carry speed farther down the straight before slowing for the corner. That's seconds saved, too. 

Edited by BalanceUT, 04 September 2019 - 12:32.

[Requiem84]

Normally in car racing, braking sooner generally is beneficial as it usually leads to a better exit. This is especially important in cars with less HP, as the acceleration benefit is felt for the largest part of the straights following it. 

 

F1 cars' top speed is aero limited, so faster acceleration is only beneficial until the moment the drag resistance becomes too high and the car stops accelerating (on non-DRS straights, this moment is reached pretty fast).

 

So, I can imagine that in F1 late braking can have a bigger impact than in slower categories... 

 

Any experts want to chime in?

[Ross Stonefeld]

I think the Toro Rosso falls into that camp a little too. I've always suspected part of Verstappen and Ricciardo's overtaking reputation is in part to having cars that are really really strong under braking. 

[zanquis]

I think it's more to do with RBs high down force design philosophy.

High down force means more draggy and able to turn in at a higher speed on the corner.

I'm sure someone who understands aero better will come along shortly to explain....


Also you have to remember that if a driver doesn't think they can keep another driver behind for the duration, they may go a bit easier on the defence to save tyres and consider the long game.

 

It isn't just downforce. the RB was also massive under braking with basically no downforce. But I think it is a result of the high rake/good diffuser from the RedBull. It keeps the back of the car more stable and in turn allows them to always brake later/deeper, even brake a bit more under steering into the corner to shrub the last bit of speed needed. The STR used to be also pretty strong under braking as it shared a lot of design similarities. Honestly don't know if it is still that strong.

[ElectricBoogie]

I've never since seen even Max overtake like he did in 2015 with the STR. He was able to rotate that car even when pushing the limit of tyre adhesion. He's been good in later cars, but not the same.
Seems to indeed be a lot about the car's finer dynamics.

[NixxxoN]

I think the Toro Rosso falls into that camp a little too. I've always suspected part of Verstappen and Ricciardo's overtaking reputation is in part to having cars that are really really strong under braking. 

 

I dont think I've ever seen any of the two do it with a TR

 

It isn't just downforce. the RB was also massive under braking with basically no downforce. But I think it is a result of the high rake/good diffuser from the RedBull. It keeps the back of the car more stable and in turn allows them to always brake later/deeper, even brake a bit more under steering into the corner to shrub the last bit of speed needed. The STR used to be also pretty strong under braking as it shared a lot of design similarities. Honestly don't know if it is still that strong.

 

Well, remembering Baku 2018, Ric went straight into the back of Max because of downforce loss and dirty air, so it must have a lot to do with it.

 

I've never since seen even Max overtake like he did in 2015 with the STR. He was able to rotate that car even when pushing the limit of tyre adhesion. He's been good in later cars, but not the same.
Seems to indeed be a lot about the car's finer dynamics.

 

This, nor any other Toro Rosso driver.

[NotAPineapple]

I'd guess it's due to better rear downforce which lets them run more rearwards brake balance before running into stability problems. This will increase the overall braking performance.

[messy]

I've never since seen even Max overtake like he did in 2015 with the STR. He was able to rotate that car even when pushing the limit of tyre adhesion. He's been good in later cars, but not the same.
Seems to indeed be a lot about the car's finer dynamics.

The 2015 Toro Rosso was a lovely, lovely car by all accounts. Dream debut car, really.

[ANF]

I don't know, but that move from Albon on Stroll looked so unreal.

Could it simply be a case of different power/recharge modes? From Albon's onboard it looked as if he was racing and Stroll was cruising around in a practice session. Anyway, I had been watching Albon's onboard for a couple of laps when it happened, and I thought it looked like he was thinking about a move into the chicane on the previous lap. He seemed to struggle to get really close to Stroll on the Kemmel Straight, so the chicane was his best chance.