89 replies to this topic

[SophieB]

Fritz-Dieter Rencken‏ @RacingLines 6m6 minutes ago

More

Adults shouldn’t be cheering at crashes, says Ricciardo | 2019 Belgian Grand Prix

 

 

Ricciardo said he’d never had the same experience as Hamilton. “I don’t wish that upon anyone,” he said. “I only knew it happened with Lewis because I read [it].”

“You don’t have to like every driver, but also to behave like that, you’d expect it probably from kids but not from adults,” he added. “If it was adults you just hope they would behave better I guess.”

 

 

https://www.racefans...says-ricciardo/

 

I guess this is the flipside of the always rather fraught 'boo' threads, but still - over to you. Do you/would you cheer a driver crashing?

 

edit:

 

Hamilton's comments on the cheering of his crash in FP3

 

 

The Mercedes driver wrote a post on social media on Saturday evening following death of Anthoine Hubert in a Formula 2 crash saying: “All these drivers put their life on the line when they hit the track and people need to appreciate that in a serious way because it is not appreciated enough. Not from the fans nor some of the people actually working in the sport.”

 

Speaking after yesterday’s race Hamilton said the crowd reaction to his crash earlier in the day had prompted the comments. “When I crashed there were some fans yelling, cheering or something like that and it was quite a decent hit, that’s what encouraged me to say the things I said at the end of the day,” he told Sky.

 

 

[Marklar]

I *could* live with it if it happens after the driver moves out of his cockpit, because only then it is clear that nothing happened (and no, fans are not smart enough to figure it out by the nature of the crash, since there have been cases before where they cheered and the driver ended up hurt).

Voted for its never okay though. I find even cheering for mechanical retirements tasteless.

[Jovanotti]

The truth probably is, F1 has become so safe that (bar a freak accident like Bianchi's), drivers are basically always going to walk away from shunts completely unhurt, so people will just cheer if they're fans of another driver. Like you don't even care anymore (or are even a bit annoyed) when another footballer rolls on the pitch, because everything's mostly acting these days.
Hamilton's crash was obviously low speed and not dangerous in a modern F1 car. It's certainly very unsporting, but also somehow understandable.

Edited by Jovanotti, 06 September 2019 - 07:39.

[Ellios]

I thought about this and I can't recall ever cheering at the crashing of an F1 car.

[TomNokoe]

It's pantomime stuff.

99% of Motorsport fans know a serious crash when they see one.

Non-issue.

(And I'm pretty sure the Hamilton cheers were over replays. It wasn't even broadcast on the live feed.)

The cheers aren't for "crash", they are for "Hamilton [misfortune]". At least last weekend in FP3 ...

Crashes inevitably incite such a response because of the climax of hitting the wall/barrier. Especially when slow/medium speed incidents are elongated in slow motion replays.

"WooOoooooooah.... heyyy!"

Edited by TomNokoe, 06 September 2019 - 08:02.

[sgtkate]

I answered generally rather than what I'd do. I can't recall ever cheering at a crash, actually once, when Vettel slid off at Hockenheim in 2018 but that was clearly not a 'crash' as such, but I equally can understand and accept others doing it as long as it's obvious that noone is hurt. The problem is when can you guarantee that? When the driver gets out of the car? A bit late by then...

[Arundo]

People should not cheer a crash, maybe if its not a hard one and your driver gains a place because of it. But still not that nice to cheer, its the same a bit if they would cheer if a soccer player gets injured. 

 

I have to say one thing which annoyed me over the weekend is some of my countrymen, there are many new "fans" because of the popularity of Max. Some of these fans are not really autosport fans, more the soccer fans who chase the good results. Same happens all the time with other sports, Darts, Women's soccer, suddenly we are doing good and the fans number rise. Last weekend Max ended his race early and a lot already left the circuit, i was like why ? You should be an autosport fan, and you want too see the full race which you paid for. You do not leave because your driver is out. 

 

So maybe the cheering is coming from the new "fans" which do not know the right etiquette yet. 

[Chewie]

Most cheering starts the instant the driver makes a mistake or leaves the circuit and is not a reaction to an impact itself, it occurs in a fraction of a second and is not malicious in its intent.

 

I’ve been at many races where a serious accident has occurred and what follows is an eerie silence as soon as people realise its seriousness, not cheering.

[king_crud]

Last night Sky showed the 88 Italian GP. The tifosi cheered all around the circuit when Senna crashed into Schlesser, forcing him out of the race. Murray Walker even seemed excited by it. THOSE HEARTLESS BASTARDS

[Laster]

I don’t like it, I’ve never liked the booing and I don’t like cheering at others misfortune. People get a little too wrapped up in sport, and choose to see some people as villains and others as heroes. It gets over the top at times. We shouldn’t cheer at peoples misfortune in everyday life, if you do so you’re an arsehole no two ways about it, and I can’t think of a reason why that doesn’t cover sport too.

[Zoe]

The only cheering in the frame of an accident that I can accept is, when the driver gets out of the cockpit unharmed and gives the crowd a thumbs-up.

 

This is positive cheering that nothing happened to him and he got away unscathed.

[ThisIsMischaW]

I think it's only normal that everyone gets a bit complacent when we go a while without anyone getting hurt (or worse). But I think it's really important to point out that this applies to the drivers as well. Some of the stuff they get up to on track is a bit much, ultimately this is a dangerous sport not a videogame, so save the absurd overtaking attempts or late moves at 200 mph for the PS4 not the race track thanks.

Edited by ThisIsMischaW, 06 September 2019 - 08:53.

[TheMidnight]

Cheering a crash = No

Jeering a mistake = Yes 

 

I can tell a serious crash straight away and I never cheer in those circumstances, it's silence until the driver's out and okay. 

 

For someone making a mistake (e.g. Vettel - German 2018, Ric/Ver - Baku 2018) then most definitely a  'ha ha' and finger point is usually the order of the day

 

 

I did enjoy a wry smile when Verstappen took himself out at Spa, not so much because of him, but his fans fist pumping with beer cans in hand, losing their ***t at any of the Merc's or Ferrari's making mistakes. It is possible to be ambivalent to the driver, yet dislike the fans. The adult fans I couldn't give two hoots about, but I did feel sorry for the children, waiting all them hours to see their driver pass by once on the parade lap, that's harsh. 

Edited by TheMidnight, 06 September 2019 - 09:16.

[Peat]

I definately cheered when Hamilton & Rosberg took each other off in Spain. I was actually breathless from laughing so hard. 

[TheFish]

I was at Hockenheim 2018, I cheered when Vettel crashed, as did a load of Dutch fans near me. The locals groaned and a few of them headed to the exits.

 

I was also at Spa in 2011 when Hamilton crashed out early and a group of Spanish lads cheered. I cheered back when Button overtook Alonso to get the final podium spot.

[Yamamoto]

I remember reading an observer account of Schumacher's crash at Silverstone in 1999, where the author said that when he went off (brake failure I think) the crowd leapt up and cheered. When he plunged into the barrier everyone suddenly went very quiet. I don't know how accurate this account is. I do think that people are usually smart enough to tell when a crash is harmful, and can react appropriately. In that sense, it isn't sporting but it's not too far removed from cheering the misfortune of opposition in other sports. I don't do it personally, but I don't think it is damaging. I find the pleasure that some people, often not racing fans, seem to take in spectacular crashes a bit odd. Even leaving aside the welfare angle, a big incident that takes competitors out is rarely a positive for the event as a whole - e.g. the Barcelona Moto GP this year;  a four-rider pile-up in which no one was seriously harmed. It certainly created a discussion point. It also ruined the rest of the race.

 

I must admit, there are some amusing ones. Take Nasr and Ericsson at Monaco a few years ago. It must be awful for the team, but it's funny in a sort of absurd/ridiculous way.

[Jordan44]

They definitely shouldn't, and anyone arguing that it's acceptable is plain wrong. However, nothing is ever going to change about it. Some people do it subconsciously.

[Risil]

I did enjoy a rye smile when Verstappen took himself out at Spa

Is that when you take a regular smile and add a shot of whisky?

[Nemo1965]

Cheers and even laughs about crashes may not always be what they seem.

 

Once I entered the wagon of a train, and bounced my head of the ceiling - which was about half a foot lower than I expected (I am about 6 foot 6, two meters or so). Some people in the wagon barked a laugh and I almost wanted to start hitting them. My very smart wife took my arm. 'These people laugh not because you hit your head, but because they did not.'

 

I've always kept that in mind. One of my fellow-journalists laughed when we stood together in the editorial office, watching a replay of the second plane hitting the WTC. He was not a crude, American-hating ghoul. He was a human being seeing something grotesque, almost incomprehensible. Some people (especially women) will put their hands in front of their mouth seeing things like that. Other will bark a laugh. Or cheer. 

 

Humans are fallible, in many more ways than one. 

 

PS: I never cheer at crashes. I can't even watch prank-video's: I hate them. 

Edited by Nemo1965, 06 September 2019 - 09:13.

[ThisIsMischaW]

I remember reading an observer account of Schumacher's crash at Silverstone in 1999, where the author said that when he went off (brake failure I think) the crowd leapt up and cheered. When he plunged into the barrier everyone suddenly went very quiet. I don't know how accurate this account is.

 

I was there (on the other side of the circuit by Abbey). When showed up on the TV screens that it was Schumacher in the wall everyone cheered a lot.

[Yamamoto]

I was there (on the other side of the circuit by Abbey). When showed up on the TV screens that it was Schumacher in the wall everyone cheered a lot.

 

That's what I have heard. I'm not surprised. He was the arch-villain. And part of live spectating is that emotions often run high among fans. I also heard that when he didn't get out immediately, the cheering stopped?

[ThisIsMischaW]

That's what I have heard. I'm not surprised. He was the arch-villain. And part of live spectating is that emotions often run high among fans. I also heard that when he didn't get out immediately, the cheering stopped?

 

Yeah the TV screen quickly cut away and everyone realised the seriousness of the situation (and unlike those watching on TV we had no idea what the situation was. and this was before smartphones so people genuinely had very little idea what was going on).

Edited by ThisIsMischaW, 06 September 2019 - 09:16.

[TheMidnight]

Is that when you take a regular smile and add a shot of whisky?

 

Well spotted.....it's a maniacal drunken smirk 

[BuddyHolly]

The only cheering in the frame of an accident that I can accept is, when the driver gets out of the cockpit unharmed and gives the crowd a thumbs-up.

 

This is positive cheering that nothing happened to him and he got away unscathed.

^This

 

I was at Silverstone in 1999 and I was disgusted by the crowd cheering when Schumacher crashed into the barrier at Stowe.   By all means cheer once the driver is out and safe if you must, but cheering before you know the fate of the driver is despicable and people should be ashamed.

[GoldenColt]

I don't think it's ever ok, but I've done it myself in the past, Vettel's crash in Hockenheim last year for example.

[CountDooku]

Of course it's fine to cheer (depending on context)! Disappointed with Lewis for even making an issue of it.

 

Times when it's okay to cheer:

• When the accident is clearly not serious and the driver is unhurt
• When the driver makes a mistake and bins it himself
• when it's in a competitive situation (qually or race)
• When the driver is in a close WDC fight

I cheered like a **** when Seb binned it in Germany last year. Not because I dislike Seb (I quite like him as a person) but because it's sport, it's emotional, and he was a tit in Silverstone.

[Muppetmad]

In the abstract, I don't find cheering at crashes especially tasteful. I agree though with those who have noted that there is a psychological element to crowd reactions which needs to be recognised and understood. The human mind works in peculiar ways, and reactions which seem out of place to shocking scenes are very common.

 

I'll take myself as an example. As I saw the horrifying crash unfold at Las Vegas in 2011, my initial thoughts were "it's Danica's last race in IndyCar - was she caught up? It'd be a real shame if she retired in her final race". Of course, in light of what had happened, this was a ridiculous thought - but it came to mind because I could not immediately process what I had seen, and had to focus on something smaller to begin with to make sense of it all.

[Jambo]

Maybe it is because I grew up with irish road racing but cheering any crash is abhorrent to me.

[SenorSjon]

Last night Sky showed the 88 Italian GP. The tifosi cheered all around the circuit when Senna crashed into Schlesser, forcing him out of the race. Murray Walker even seemed excited by it. THOSE HEARTLESS BASTARDS

 

This!

 

It seems like overreacting to everything is a new forte these days. It is very common to hear cheers when the opposition makes a mistake and will no long threat the guy you support. Injuries are never fun, but a pretty harmless looking crash when the driver gets out unscathed? 

 

What also isn't helping, is FOM putting audio under replays. The cheers are suddenly a lot louder, as if it is a new thing. I even suspect they use pre-recordings for this.

[Spillage]

I'm torn. I was going to say never okay, but the point made above about Monza 1988 is a good one. I really think it depends on circumstance. In most cases I'd say it isn't OK though.

[Beri]

Cheering is an emotion. And something happening on track like a crash or an overtake triggers an immediate emotion like a cheer, a yell or a strange face. Those usually seen alongside the track at such events.
I cant see anything primal as a cheer as being wrong and I do think people responding as it being bad are just overthinking it a tad too much.

Booing, on the other hand, is also an emotion. Yet it is a choice to do so. So thats different and debatable.

[7MGTEsup]

We shouldn’t cheer at peoples misfortune in everyday life, if you do so you’re an arsehole no two ways about it, and I can’t think of a reason why that doesn’t cover sport too.

 

What if the person who has suffered the misfortune is them self a complete tosser and always rubbing people up the wrong way?

 

Are you saying you have never taken any small satisfaction from seeing someone who is a complete tosser getting their just desserts?

[Imperial]

Revelling in someone's misfortune is the mark of an idiot.

[Rodaknee]

What also isn't helping, is FOM putting audio under replays. The cheers are suddenly a lot louder, as if it is a new thing. I even suspect they use pre-recordings for this.

 

LM/FOM are manipulating the broadcasts.  Not only with faked audio like we heard last Saturday, but switching to show the spectators at other parts of the circuit from where the current action is taking place.  It's noticeable that they've had a dedicated camera fixed on the Dutch fans, ready for anything involving Max Verstappen. This weekend it'll be the Ferrari fans getting the attention.

[SenorSjon]

I wonder when we see a 'wrong' Toto Wolff footage. For instance in his Mercedes anniversary attire at another track. 

[P123]

It's a bit crass, but it has always happened. I suppose there are varying degrees … if somebody goes off at pace into the barriers then you would have to be a bit of a prat to cheer at that, but a light nerf, a spin or a beaching, or something going up in smoke or breaking down, sure, cheer or jeer all you want. Hockenheim this year was like a pantomime. The fans seemed entertained, even if little actual on track action.

[Rodaknee]

Revelling in someone's misfortune is the mark of an idiot.

 

Give over.  Who didn't laugh when Grosjean clouted the wall coming out of the pits or when he was behind the safety car?

[OneAndOnly]

It's common in sport for fans to cheer on competition's misfortune and to some extent I understand that. I will always cheer against some football teams no matter who they play with. But even then I don't want players to get hurt or anything like that. However in sports where competitor can get seriously hurt or even die it's really lame. Human life and safety should come before everything. 

[7MGTEsup]

Give over.  Who didn't laugh when Grosjean clouted the wall coming out of the pits or when he was behind the safety car?

 

Exactly..... Or Coulthard crashing into the pit wall in Aus in 1995 and crashing on the parade lap at Monza the same year.

[Retrofly]

If its something relatively minor and its clear no one is hurt then its fine, its just banter/pantomime/ part of the show.

 

Its like when someone would drop their tray in the lunch hall.

 

"Weeyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy"

[TomNokoe]

Spa 2008 2:30 (McLaren cheering) or Fuji 2008 7:30 (Ferrari cheering)

Edited by TomNokoe, 06 September 2019 - 11:05.

[Izzyeviel]

Most crashes are minor things, so who cares if someone laughs or cheers. If its a big one or the driver hasn't got out of his car in a minor crash for whatever reason then it would be bad form to cheer/laugh.

 

We watch motor racing because it gives us emotions. When you see the driver you don't like have a crash and your favourite benefits, well you are gonna be happy and react accordingly. Obviously no-true fan wishes harm on anyone (just a big of egg on certain drivers faces)

[absinthedude]

I'm not often one to revel in the misfortune of others. So I rarely cheer when a driver I don't particularly like goes off while leading, for example. But I can see why people do. In the same way a football fan might cheer when an opposing player trips up and the ball falls to the favoured team. Or a tennis player plays a double fault. It's not "nice" as such but I kind of get it. 

 

The difference in motor racing is that a crash can hurt or kill....though as per my observations in other threads this is very rare these days. In decades long ago, crowds would hold their breath any time a car went off and cheer the intrepid driver when/if he walked away...like applauding the fact that he'd survived relatively unscathed. Today it has become more common to cheer or jeer when a driver makes a mistake and hits the wall in part because we have the expectation that he (or she) will walk away with nothing worse than a few bruises. 

 

It may also have cultural differences. In Britain, motor sport started with the upper class "stiff upper lip" brigade....even fans were "the right crowd, and no crowding" and probably the kind of people who kept emotional outbursts in check. Contrast that with the attitudes in Southern Europe or South America where crowds have always got more involved with the races and racers. 

 

The time when it is absolutely not OK is when there's an injury or worse. And it's not always clear to spectators as many of us have grown accustomed to drivers walking away from monumental accidents. Just occasionally it's obvious something is wrong. But even then, people who have never seen a fatal accident may not recognise the gravity of the sitation. I remember when Jeff Krosnoff and a marshal were killed at the Toronto Indycar race in 1996, the Usenet groups were chattering...and some younger fans were saying things like 'wow that was a mega crash hope Jeff's OK' when it was clear to us more experienced folk that he wasn't. That was not necessarily disrespect from the younger fans, but inexperience....not having seen a tub disintegrate like that.

 

I also don't like the booing of a driver who has just won a race fair and square. But that's for another thread.

Edited by absinthedude, 06 September 2019 - 11:09.

[Thatfastguy]

The truth probably is, F1 has become so safe that (bar a freak accident like Bianchi's), drivers are basically always going to walk away from shunts completely unhurt, so people will just cheer if they're fans of another driver. Like you don't even care anymore (or are even a bit annoyed) when another footballer rolls on the pitch, because everything's mostly acting these days.
Hamilton's crash was obviously low speed and not dangerous in a modern F1 car. It's certainly very unsporting, but also somehow understandable.

 

Nail on the head. 

 

People cheer because F1 crashes have basically become like football players missing a penalty. It testifies to the safety measures that have been taken the last 25 years, so really its a good sign. You could call it unsportive (and you'd probably be right) but its hard to blame the people trackside, most of whom don't understand and appreciate all the measures that have been taken in the past and the fact that there are still big risks involved. In literally every other sport, people cheer when the opponent messes up. Just view it as a positive sign. 

[BiggestBuddyLazierFan]

Nothing should ever be repressed.

If someone has a desire to "booo" a driver. Let him. It only reflects his/hers inner state.

Those people need help and guidiance.

We have to cure cause, not cover the symptome.

As a society.

[CSF]

People cheered as far back as 99, 5 years after Imola. This isn't new. 

[ConsiderAndGo]

I don't think it's a problem so long as you know the drivers okay first.

 

Verstappen last week, I cheered big time.

 

Hakkinen in 1998 going off at della Roggia; cheered very loudly.

 

Hakkinen last lap failure at Spain in 2001; almost raised the roof.

 

As a Ferrari fan, I've had VERY little to cheer about the past 10 years. Need something to keep things ticking along!

[Mosrite]

People will say it's not ok, but I can mentioned some cases where others will feel it's justified. Generally, everyone will say it's not ok, but will feel justified if they do so because of many factors. I once mentioned that the British crowd booed when Schumacher broke his leg and no one said it wasn't ok, more like they understood it

[f1paul]

Tough one really.

 

I know F1 cars are very safe these days but I've had a crash doing about 20 and that scared me! 

 

Nevermind going 5 times that speed or higher.

 

But, this is sport and I'd rather have a little bit of jeering/cheering than silence.

 

I never find myself cheering it's more of a "woah Hamilton/Vettel/Verstappen (insert driver name), ahhh, oh no, what a move or noooo" 

 

Edit: I don't think it's okay to cheer for crashes

Edited by f1paul, 06 September 2019 - 11:33.

[sopa]

The difference in motor racing is that a crash can hurt or kill....though as per my observations in other threads this is very rare these days. In decades long ago, crowds would hold their breath any time a car went off and cheer the intrepid driver when/if he walked away...like applauding the fact that he'd survived relatively unscathed. Today it has become more common to cheer or jeer when a driver makes a mistake and hits the wall in part because we have the expectation that he (or she) will walk away with nothing worse than a few bruises. 

 

It's a pretty interesting distinction between eras and attitudes.

 

I remember Murray Walker, who was clearly from the old-school dangerous era, used to say after every crash that "thank goodness the driver is alright." Even if that crash seemed relatively minor.

 

New generation doesn't have that habit any more.