Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Kerb at the Parabolica needs to go - big crash in F3 [merged threads]


  • Please log in to reply
359 replies to this topic

#51 Anja

Anja
  • Member

  • 4,134 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 07 September 2019 - 09:16

Hopefully that's all the warning FIA needs with these kerbs.



Advertisement

#52 wookles

wookles
  • Member

  • 515 posts
  • Joined: July 09

Posted 07 September 2019 - 09:16

Very lucky, he came down head first on that barrier.

 

Looks like the Halo contributed to the fact that he's walked away.



#53 MalcolmC

MalcolmC
  • Member

  • 46 posts
  • Joined: December 05

Posted 07 September 2019 - 09:16

It was like he was shot out of a cannon !



#54 midgrid

midgrid
  • RC Forum Host

  • 7,599 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 07 September 2019 - 09:16

Please can someone describe what happened? I'm imaging something like Tereschenko's GP3 launch at Spa a couple of years ago.

Edit: never mind, just saw the YT video.

#55 Rediscoveryx

Rediscoveryx
  • Member

  • 1,711 posts
  • Joined: August 01

Posted 07 September 2019 - 09:17

Jesus, that’s insane! Ok, these sausage kerbs obviously have to go - atleast from the faster curves.

#56 ConsiderAndGo

ConsiderAndGo
  • Member

  • 5,579 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 07 September 2019 - 09:17

Halo absolutely undoubtedly prevents serious injury or worse here.

Those kerbs need removing before the F1 outing today. A disgrace.

The FIA will get destroyed for this.

Edited by ConsiderAndGo, 07 September 2019 - 09:18.


#57 Marklar

Marklar
  • Member

  • 32,516 posts
  • Joined: May 15

Posted 07 September 2019 - 09:17

Please can someone describe what happened? I'm imaging something like Tereschenko's GP3 launch at Spa a couple of years ago.

https://twitter.com/...263497441038336



#58 Rediscoveryx

Rediscoveryx
  • Member

  • 1,711 posts
  • Joined: August 01

Posted 07 September 2019 - 09:18

Please can someone describe what happened? I'm imaging something like Tereschenko's GP3 launch at Spa a couple of years ago.


He runs wide at the Curva Grande, runs over a sausage kerb and the car launched in a twisting trajectory and lands in the fence behind the gravel trap.

#59 Chunkinator

Chunkinator
  • Member

  • 188 posts
  • Joined: April 16

Posted 07 September 2019 - 09:18

I ****ing love the halo



Advertisement

#60 messy

messy
  • Member

  • 3,640 posts
  • Joined: October 15

Posted 07 September 2019 - 09:19

Reckon the halo saved another life there.

This is a weird, unsettling couple of weeks isn’t it. Some horrific crashes. Those sausage kerbs are bloody ridiculous, that fired him straight out of a cannon, lethal.

Edited by messy, 07 September 2019 - 09:19.


#61 TomNokoe

TomNokoe
  • Member

  • 20,123 posts
  • Joined: July 11

Posted 07 September 2019 - 09:20

Wipes out the electronic yellow flag display, comes very close to that crane.

#62 Diablobb81

Diablobb81
  • Member

  • 6,568 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 07 September 2019 - 09:20

While i understand the inherent dangers of racing the FIA can't be allowed to kill these kids.

For me it looks like the kerb came off.

#63 carbonfibre

carbonfibre
  • Member

  • 6,653 posts
  • Joined: February 05

Posted 07 September 2019 - 09:20

Get rid off the asphalt runoffs an get back those gravel traps this is getting ridiculous.

By trying to create more safety with asphalt runoffs they are actually creating more danger

#64 monolulu

monolulu
  • Member

  • 1,057 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 07 September 2019 - 09:21

The sausage curb appears to break up when he went over it.

#65 fer312t

fer312t
  • Member

  • 1,395 posts
  • Joined: September 01

Posted 07 September 2019 - 09:21

 

 

Stupid and ugly asphalt runoff...leads to track limits abuse...leads to people complaining about track limits abuse...leads to stupid 'solutions' such as this :evil:



#66 Montie

Montie
  • Member

  • 1,181 posts
  • Joined: September 10

Posted 07 September 2019 - 09:21

https://www.reddit.c...ausage_kerb_in/

#67 Jellyfishcake

Jellyfishcake
  • Member

  • 689 posts
  • Joined: March 16

Posted 07 September 2019 - 09:21

FIA brought in the halo to save the drivers they put in danger by introducing sausages curbs brought in by the demand of removing gravel replacing it with tarmac leading to drivers abusing track limits...



#68 l12mcg

l12mcg
  • Member

  • 325 posts
  • Joined: May 11

Posted 07 September 2019 - 09:22

Halo first onto the tyre barriers, that could have been much worse very easily.

Even straight into the catch fence and he might have gone through it, he did a lot of damage even though he hit the tyres first.

#69 jee

jee
  • Member

  • 935 posts
  • Joined: October 09

Posted 07 September 2019 - 09:22

Hopefully that's all the warning FIA needs with these kerbs.

Hopefully that's all the warning the drivers need with these kerbs.

 

He totally knew he was running wide and extended the track as much as possible to not lose any time. He could have easily rejoined the that sooner by slowing down, but drivers are just spoiled by getting away with anything.


Edited by jee, 07 September 2019 - 09:26.


#70 wookles

wookles
  • Member

  • 515 posts
  • Joined: July 09

Posted 07 September 2019 - 09:22

Reckon the halo saved another life there.

This is a weird, unsettling couple of weeks isn’t it. Some horrific crashes. Those sausage kerbs are bloody ridiculous, that fired him straight out of a cannon, lethal.

 

Jackie Stewart said something about these things happening together and that was the feeling he was having.



#71 BuddyHolly

BuddyHolly
  • Member

  • 3,193 posts
  • Joined: December 15

Posted 07 September 2019 - 09:23

I didn't see it live but... bloody hell!!  I hope everyone is okay



#72 ArchieTech

ArchieTech
  • Member

  • 1,206 posts
  • Joined: May 15

Posted 07 September 2019 - 09:23

Well I hope that kerb is being removed for the remaining sessions this weekend, not only launched but high enough to go clean over the tyre barrier and into fences and signage.



#73 Chunkinator

Chunkinator
  • Member

  • 188 posts
  • Joined: April 16

Posted 07 September 2019 - 09:25

What was the original reasoning by the track officials/fia for switching most of the parabolic runoff to tarmac?



#74 l12mcg

l12mcg
  • Member

  • 325 posts
  • Joined: May 11

Posted 07 September 2019 - 09:26

Well I hope that kerb is being removed for the remaining sessions this weekend, not only launched but high enough to go clean over the tyre barrier and into fences and signage.


It was high enough to go over the catch fence... It thankfully didn’t have enough speed to get over it before it started to fall. If that had been F2 or F1 it would have been even worse.

#75 Hela

Hela
  • Member

  • 495 posts
  • Joined: March 19

Posted 07 September 2019 - 09:27

Glad the driver walked away from that. It really looked unbelievable, a meter here or there and it could have gone different 



#76 Stephane

Stephane
  • Member

  • 2,146 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 07 September 2019 - 09:27

Well, part of it is obviously already removed.



#77 wookles

wookles
  • Member

  • 515 posts
  • Joined: July 09

Posted 07 September 2019 - 09:28

What was the original reasoning by the track officials/fia for switching most of the parabolic runoff to tarmac?

 

In general circuits have been doing this so cars don't stuck in gravel/launched into barrier/roll etc. The idea is also that cars can go wide, rejoin and race on leading to less safety cars and a better spectator experience.

 

Putting a launch pad mid corner to STOP them running wide seems to be counter-productive to all that though.



#78 FullOppositeLock

FullOppositeLock
  • Member

  • 5,150 posts
  • Joined: September 15

Posted 07 September 2019 - 09:29

Hopefully that's all the warning the drivers need with these kerbs.

He totally knew he was running wide and extended the track as much as possible to not lose any time. He could have easily rejoined the that sooner by slowing down, but drivers are just spoiled by getting away with anything.


Sure, slow down and rejoin the track in a blindsighted 300+ kph corner, great idea. How about not putting suasage kerbs/launch pads at the outside of fast corners?

#79 TheGoldenStoffel

TheGoldenStoffel
  • Member

  • 483 posts
  • Joined: November 18

Posted 07 September 2019 - 09:29

What was the original reasoning by the track officials/fia for switching most of the parabolic runoff to tarmac?

 

They say it's for the motorbikes racing at Monza but then Spa will replace tarmac run-off with gravel again...because they want to organise motorbike races.  :confused:



Advertisement

#80 statman

statman
  • Member

  • 4,699 posts
  • Joined: December 15

Posted 07 September 2019 - 09:29

funny how no one was complaining about track limits in the old days, that's because you were automatically slowed down by grass and gravel

 

hopefully these sort of incidents will start the revolution to go back to the old days, solves multiple issues at once.



#81 thegamer23

thegamer23
  • Member

  • 7,927 posts
  • Joined: November 13

Posted 07 September 2019 - 09:32

This would have been fatal without the Halo, head first into the barriers.

Just bring back gravel runoffs, please FIA.

#82 l12mcg

l12mcg
  • Member

  • 325 posts
  • Joined: May 11

Posted 07 September 2019 - 09:34

funny how no one was complaining about track limits in the old days, that's because you were automatically slowed down by grass and gravel

hopefully these sort of incidents will start the revolution to go back to the old days, solves multiple issues at once.


The only problem was the kerb... If there had been grass there it’s also a huge crash as he flies into the tyres. And gravel would mean we’d lose a bunch of cars in races for silly little contacts or silly mistakes - which isn’t very fun.

The solution is either slippery of very gripy paint like at Paul Ricard, and combine that with punishing repeatedly going outside the track in a race or removing qualifying times.

#83 SophieB

SophieB
  • RC Forum Host

  • 11,749 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 07 September 2019 - 09:34

Accidents caused/exacerbated  by supposed safety solutions feel massively less bearable than accidents caused by misjudging challenging tracks.



#84 Muppetmad

Muppetmad
  • Member

  • 5,848 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 07 September 2019 - 09:35

I'm furious. This is unacceptable.



#85 milestone 11

milestone 11
  • Member

  • 8,114 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 07 September 2019 - 09:37

Tarmac run offs are for MotoGP? Perhaps it's time for circuits to decide what they want- single seater or motorcycles. They are a bodged solution to a created problem with the removal of grass and gravel.

Moto GP doesn't want tarmac P123, they want gravel.



#86 Muppetmad

Muppetmad
  • Member

  • 5,848 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 07 September 2019 - 09:37

The only problem was the kerb... If there had been grass there it’s also a huge crash as he flies into the tyres. And gravel would mean we’d lose a bunch of cars in races for silly little contacts or silly mistakes - which isn’t very fun.

The solution is either slippery of very gripy paint like at Paul Ricard, and combine that with punishing repeatedly going outside the track in a race or removing qualifying times.

I hate to be flippant, but if there had been grass there, it's very unlikely he would ever have been out there in the first place. Drivers managed to navigate Parabolica correctly for decades when there was grass and gravel there; I refuse to believe that drivers miraculously forgot how to do it properly the moment that the run off was turned into tarmac.



#87 f1paul

f1paul
  • Member

  • 7,371 posts
  • Joined: April 16

Posted 07 September 2019 - 09:42

Edit: This was an OP, threads have been merged.  :up:  :up:

 

Another scary accident, this time in the F3 race at Monza. Thankfully Alex Peroni walked away from this scary accident.

 

 

The kerb needs to go, as ANF has pointed out in the F1 build-up thread the kerb already caused a crash last year in the Italian F4 championship

 

 

(see 38:15)

 

The kerb came in to prevent the drivers abusing the track limits, instead it's become a very serious problem that can launch the cars into the air.

 

FIA, WAKE UP. CHANGES MUST BE MADE. 


Edited by f1paul, 07 September 2019 - 09:46.


#88 Jellyfishcake

Jellyfishcake
  • Member

  • 689 posts
  • Joined: March 16

Posted 07 September 2019 - 09:44

Did not realise it'd caused something a year earlier....

 

Quite frankly the FIA are pathetic 



#89 Jazza

Jazza
  • Member

  • 1,564 posts
  • Joined: November 99

Posted 07 September 2019 - 09:46

I hate to be flippant, but if there had been grass there, it's very unlikely he would ever have been out there in the first place. Drivers managed to navigate Parabolica correctly for decades when there was grass and gravel there; I refuse to believe that drivers miraculously forgot how to do it properly the moment that the run off was turned into tarmac.


Yep... Monaco! It’s amazing what a wall of steel on the outside of the corner does to the drivers approach to it...

#90 Marklar

Marklar
  • Member

  • 32,516 posts
  • Joined: May 15

Posted 07 September 2019 - 09:46

Posted this in the F1 thread, but here as well

Tobi Grüner
@tgruener
·
16s
FIA has decided to remove all sausage kerbs in Parabolica before FP3 after the massive accident of F3 driver Alex Peroni this morning. Race director Michael Masi is in Parabolica right now.

#F1 #AMuS #ItalianGP

#91 Kalmake

Kalmake
  • Member

  • 3,333 posts
  • Joined: November 07

Posted 07 September 2019 - 09:47

They say it's for the motorbikes racing at Monza but then Spa will replace tarmac run-off with gravel again...because they want to organise motorbike races.  :confused:

FIM doesn't want gravel closer than 2 meters from the track.



#92 jee

jee
  • Member

  • 935 posts
  • Joined: October 09

Posted 07 September 2019 - 09:49

In both cases, recent F3 and in the Italian F4 incidents, the drivers chose to ignore track limits ON PURPOSE and ran over the curbing. The problem is the mentality of the drivers, not the track limits or their enforcement.



#93 Jovanotti

Jovanotti
  • Member

  • 6,860 posts
  • Joined: October 11

Posted 07 September 2019 - 09:49

Glad he's OK :up: Crazy shunt...

Bloody FIA got no clue whatsoever about track design, there's absolutely no point we can't have gravel or grass at the exit of Parabolica. Or had they just consequently punished every driver leaving the track there we wouldn't need such measures in the first place. I.e. just what many have been saying here for years.

Edited by Jovanotti, 07 September 2019 - 09:51.


#94 SophieB

SophieB
  • RC Forum Host

  • 11,749 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 07 September 2019 - 09:49

Posted this in the F1 thread, but here as well

Tobi Grüner
@tgruener
·
16s
FIA has decided to remove all sausage kerbs in Parabolica before FP3 after the massive accident of F3 driver Alex Peroni this morning. Race director Michael Masi is in Parabolica right now.

#F1 #AMuS #ItalianGP

 

 

Good. I will accept they need to rule out further unintended consequences but already it's been demonstrated that this solution is actively dangerous, very possibly much more so than the original problem. I suggest there's already enough evidence to remove all of them. everywhere and consider the problems anew.



#95 Marklar

Marklar
  • Member

  • 32,516 posts
  • Joined: May 15

Posted 07 September 2019 - 09:49

Interestingly Verstappen says that that kerb is no problem for F1 cars, because they have more ground clearance than F2/F3, makes sense.



#96 Kev00

Kev00
  • Member

  • 3,428 posts
  • Joined: July 15

Posted 07 September 2019 - 09:51

Do they remove all of the grass and gravel from Parabolica for safety reasons to replace them with tarmac and random sausage kerbs! The FIA are an absolute embarrassment.

#97 f1paul

f1paul
  • Member

  • 7,371 posts
  • Joined: April 16

Posted 07 September 2019 - 09:51

In both cases, recent F3 and in the Italian F4 incidents, the drivers chose to ignore track limits ON PURPOSE and ran over the curbing. The problem is the mentality of the drivers, not the track limits or their enforcement.

In those cases, maybe.

 

But what if you're pushed wide or going side by side and you end up on the outside and go off line.



#98 milestone 11

milestone 11
  • Member

  • 8,114 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 07 September 2019 - 09:51

Hopefully that's all the warning FIA needs with these kerbs.

Sadly, they categorically refuse to heed warnings.



#99 Disgrace

Disgrace
  • Member

  • 21,365 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 07 September 2019 - 09:51

Interestingly Verstappen says that that kerb is no problem for F1 cars, because they have more ground clearance than F2/F3, makes sense.

 

And what does he think in the event of a poorly-timed, mid-corner tyre deflation?



Advertisement

#100 ANF

ANF
  • Member

  • 9,879 posts
  • Joined: April 12

Posted 07 September 2019 - 09:54

From the video it seems that when Peroni's car landed, it made virtually simultaneous contact between (1) the nose and the ground, and (2) the frontal, central part of the halo and the outer edge of the tyre barrier.

I'm no expert at this, but it seems that the nose made relatively light, glancing contact with the ground and the halo took the bigger hit as the car landed upside down on the barrier.

Edited by ANF, 07 September 2019 - 10:02.