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Juan Manuel Correa injury and recovery thread [split]


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#51 messy

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 19:36

It’s different to Bianchi. Bianchi was pretty much gone wasn’t he, for months and months after the accident. He never regained consciousness. His brain was damaged beyond repair. A machine kept his body going for a while but that was it. Correa is in a horrendous position, he’s really, really medically unwell and touch and go. But the problem with him isn’t his head, it’s his organs, his body....he’s still there, ready to be brought back round if and when he’s strong enough. There’s still hope here. And that’s what we need.

I kind of speak from personal experience, my sister was critically ill earlier this year and her organs were failing, she was put to sleep and we could only wait and hope she beat the odds....she recovered and is now well on the mend, I hope Correa’s story ends happily because where there’s hope there’s a future right there waiting for him, one Bianchi in all likelihood never had from the second he hit that truck.

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#52 FLB

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 19:42

It’s different to Bianchi. Bianchi was pretty much gone wasn’t he, for months and months after the accident. He never regained consciousness. His brain was damaged beyond repair. A machine kept his body going for a while but that was it. Correa is in a horrendous position, he’s really, really medically unwell and touch and go. But the problem with him isn’t his head, it’s his organs, his body....he’s still there, ready to be brought back round if and when he’s strong enough. There’s still hope here. And that’s what we need.
I kind of speak from personal experience, my sister was critically ill earlier this year and her organs were failing, she was put to sleep and we could only wait and hope she beat the odds....she recovered and is now well on the mend, I hope Correa’s story ends happily because where there’s hope there’s a future right there waiting for him, one Bianchi in all likelihood never had from the second he hit that truck.

Mike Mosley after Indy in 1971 was iffy for a while, too. He eventually made a full recovery.

#53 Marklar

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 19:48

I had honestly after the first few days the impression that it's no question that he will survive, albeit perhaps not returning to the track due to his leg injuries (but possibly). But now this, just ugh.



#54 FLB

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 20:04

I had honestly after the first few days the impression that it's no question that he will survive, albeit perhaps not returning to the track due to his leg injuries (but possibly). But now this, just ugh.

Luigi Fagioli, Ronnie Peterson... :(

#55 Collombin

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 20:26

Mike Mosley after Indy in 1971 was iffy for a while, too. He eventually made a full recovery.


His car was so badly damaged it was virtually impossible to believe he could have survived.

#56 FLB

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 20:35

His car was so badly damaged it was virtually impossible to believe he could have survived.

Your avatar is a great example of someone who eventually recovered from what at first seemed life-changing injuries (Roland Collombin)...

#57 Viryfan

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 20:46

Juan Manuel i think is going through what any kind of average joe goes through when they have a head on car crash with another car or a tree. 

 

A normal person would be killed when an f1 driver gets a big off, because all internals organs would be misplaced.

 

But racing drivers survives or walk away because they are trained to contract and sheathing of their own body.

 

I dare to imagine the number of G's  generated by the crash in order to create such breathing troubles.



#58 E1pix

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 20:51

I'm no doctor but have spent much time studying health and medicine.

My reading of this situation is that when there's severe lung bruising, the body creates a ton of fluid to enable healing... and sometimes too much fluid as in the case of severe pneumonia. I believe the induced coma is to stabilize blood pressure and heart rate so variations don't exist to destabilize slow and defined healing.

Unlike many of the injuries described above, this strikes me as somewhat under control and I truly believe he will survive.

#59 pitlanepalpatine

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Posted 15 September 2019 - 00:29

Juan Manuel i think is going through what any kind of average joe goes through when they have a head on car crash with another car or a tree. 

 

A normal person would be killed when an f1 driver gets a big off, because all internals organs would be misplaced.

 

But racing drivers survives or walk away because they are trained to contract and sheathing of their own body.

 

I dare to imagine the number of G's  generated by the crash in order to create such breathing troubles.

 

Aye something along these lines...the Guy drove into a stationary object at 200-300kmh causing his survival cell to lose it's floor in the crash. That both drivers weren't killed instantly on site was a testament to safety but there's only so much the body can take. Hopefully he will recover. Remember what Lauda went through before coming back on track. At the end of the day all we can do is hope/pray he'll be ok.



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#60 whitewaterMkII

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Posted 15 September 2019 - 16:26

Aye something along these lines...the Guy drove into a stationary object at 200-300kmh causing his survival cell to lose it's floor in the crash. That both drivers weren't killed instantly on site was a testament to safety but there's only so much the body can take. Hopefully he will recover. Remember what Lauda went through before coming back on track. At the end of the day all we can do is hope/pray he'll be ok.

Without a HANS device, that would have been a fatal. I thought I had also read somewhere at some point he was on the way to Indy for his leg injuries with Dr. Terry Trammel. 



#61 E1pix

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Posted 15 September 2019 - 17:00

Can't be...

#62 PlatenGlass

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Posted 15 September 2019 - 18:11

Juan Manuel i think is going through what any kind of average joe goes through when they have a head on car crash with another car or a tree. 
 
A normal person would be killed when an f1 driver gets a big off, because all internals organs would be misplaced.
 
But racing drivers survives or walk away because they are trained to contract and sheathing of their own body.
 
I dare to imagine the number of G's  generated by the crash in order to create such breathing troubles.

This is the first I've heard that racing drivers are trained to survive accidents that "normal people" wouldn't. Is there any source for this?

#63 FLB

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Posted 15 September 2019 - 18:19

This is the first I've heard that racing drivers are trained to survive accidents that "normal people" wouldn't. Is there any source for this?

This is just a blogged example, but being young, fit and healthy helps recovery:

https://www.12minute....com/car-crash/

#64 PayasYouRace

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Posted 15 September 2019 - 18:28

This is the first I've heard that racing drivers are trained to survive accidents that "normal people" wouldn't. Is there any source for this?


The source is one’s backside. It’s nonsense.

#65 Spillage

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Posted 15 September 2019 - 18:34

Maybe this isn't the right thread for it, but was the impact simply too large for the survival cell to work? Or is the failure of the survival cell (we could see his feet) connected to the injuries to his chest?

#66 E1pix

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Posted 15 September 2019 - 19:10

Yes.

No, sudden organ stoppage.

#67 whitewaterMkII

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Posted 15 September 2019 - 22:27

The source is one’s backside. It’s nonsense.

I don't know about the freezing of the abdominal muscles but I've seen countless times guys that are about to take a hard smack pull their hands off the wheel and cross them over their chests.

My bro-in-law had a little over 5000 hours in F-16s and in his case when he knew when he was coming up on a hard G load he described pushing his belly muscles like he's taking a crap. The G-suit is mainly to keep blood from rushing into their legs. Poor guy, he's now a two star and is definitely starting to feel those thousands of G's he's pulled over the years in his back and neck. You hand in your wings when you get a star so he hasn't flown fighters in years. Bonus points though for his position now, he's the commander of an un-named state national guard and so he has his own UH-60 and two full crews right outside his office door 24/7/365



#68 Celloman

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Posted 16 September 2019 - 00:28

Juan Manuel i think is going through what any kind of average joe goes through when they have a head on car crash with another car or a tree. 

 

A normal person would be killed when an f1 driver gets a big off, because all internals organs would be misplaced.

 

But racing drivers survives or walk away because they are trained to contract and sheathing of their own body.

 

I dare to imagine the number of G's  generated by the crash in order to create such breathing troubles.

There is no way to "train" your internal organs from getting misplaced in an accident, as far as I know. You can train the muscles, but training doesn't give you some huge physiological advantage that makes you tolerate more G's in a crash. The reason F1 drivers don't end up killed typically is due to all the accessory safety features like halo, HANS, helmet and monocoque that are available in an F1 car, but not in a civil car.


Edited by Celloman, 16 September 2019 - 00:29.


#69 PlatenGlass

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Posted 16 September 2019 - 07:42

Yes.

No, sudden organ stoppage.

Correa's car carried on after hitting Hubert's so there wasn't the sudden stop that we've seen with other accidents. I think we're speculating to some degree in any case.

#70 RA2

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Posted 16 September 2019 - 07:56

While wheels are tethered, why the front wings are not?

 

 

Retaining the main plane of the wing would help prevent it getting dragged under the floor

 

130324172305-malaysia-alonso-horizontal-

 

 

Indycar uses a tether for the wings after Wilson, how come the same is not being used by FIA?


Edited by RA2, 16 September 2019 - 08:13.


#71 E1pix

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Posted 16 September 2019 - 07:59

Correa's car carried on after hitting Hubert's so there wasn't the sudden stop that we've seen with other accidents. I think we're speculating to some degree in any case.


Read the family statement, and about the condition he's battling.

#72 Sash1

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Posted 16 September 2019 - 08:00

Correa's car carried on after hitting Hubert's so there wasn't the sudden stop that we've seen with other accidents. I think we're speculating to some degree in any case.

 

You don't have to stop. A sudden short distance deceleration from 250 tot 100 km/h has the same effect as a sudden deceleration from 150 to 0 for example. 



#73 Peat

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Posted 16 September 2019 - 08:48

I don't know how you could view the crash footage and THEN question the violence of it.  :confused:

 

It was a huge, huge hit. 



#74 PlatenGlass

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Posted 16 September 2019 - 11:37

Read the family statement, and about the condition he's battling.

I'm not saying I disbelieve what people here are suggesting, merely that it's open to question. I've read the statement. I don't know that Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome has to be caused by sudden organ stoppage. I've only got the word of people on here for that. As I say, it's not that I don't believe it, but I'm not just accepting it wholesale either. Bear in mind also that the idea that racing drivers unlike "normal" people are capable of bracing their internal organs for impact nearly became a "fact" before it was questioned.

#75 Requiem84

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Posted 16 September 2019 - 11:47

A few things which imo would help racing drivers in general to recover better/faster than 'normal people':

 

  • Excellent general fitness - known to speed up recovery
  • Most likely better than usual medical service on track in terms of timing (much faster than an accident on a public road obviously, and likely better medical care than average after the accident) 
  • Most racing drivers have crashed before -> I can imagine that a body can get 'used' to a certain extent to such violent G'forces. E.g., the body may adapt to a certain extent

Bracing organs however.. sounds like a fairy tale.



#76 Rinehart

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Posted 16 September 2019 - 11:50

I'm not saying I disbelieve what people here are suggesting, merely that it's open to question. I've read the statement. I don't know that Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome has to be caused by sudden organ stoppage. I've only got the word of people on here for that. As I say, it's not that I don't believe it, but I'm not just accepting it wholesale either. Bear in mind also that the idea that racing drivers unlike "normal" people are capable of bracing their internal organs for impact nearly became a "fact" before it was questioned.

Then may I not accept your word wholesale either. Because I think you questioned it, everyone else ignored it as total bollocks! It never became a fact. 



#77 SCUDmissile

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Posted 16 September 2019 - 12:30

I'm not saying I disbelieve what people here are suggesting, merely that it's open to question. I've read the statement. I don't know that Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome has to be caused by sudden organ stoppage.


You're right, It doesn't

Edited by SCUDmissile, 16 September 2019 - 12:30.


#78 l12mcg

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Posted 16 September 2019 - 12:34

I'm not saying I disbelieve what people here are suggesting, merely that it's open to question. I've read the statement. I don't know that Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome has to be caused by sudden organ stoppage. I've only got the word of people on here for that. As I say, it's not that I don't believe it, but I'm not just accepting it wholesale either. Bear in mind also that the idea that racing drivers unlike "normal" people are capable of bracing their internal organs for impact nearly became a "fact" before it was questioned.

Well a quick use of a search engine would answer your question:

No it does not have to be caused by that. Any physical trauma to the lungs has a chance of cause ARDS - this can include blunt trauma to the outside of the chest, penetrating chest injuries, deceleration injuries and doubtless others I can’t currently remember.

Other causes are still because of physical trauma to the lungs but in different circumstances for example - near drowning, pneumonia, sepsis (because of general inflammation), smoke inhalation, inhalation of food or fluid, or long term ventilation (although that’s caused by the increased chance of inhalation of fluid and increased risk of pneumonia).

With Correa we can’t rule out a blunt chest trauma but it would be extremely unlikely - we can essentially rule out a penetrating chest trauma because how could it happen. Then that leaves us with the most likely cause being a deceleration injury.

Now, it doesn’t really matter - because the treatment is the same (see end of post).

Here is a source that’s largely written for patients and family - https://www.nhs.uk/c...tress-syndrome/

It won’t include all of the possible mechanisms because it isn’t needed but if you’re interested I can dig up scientific papers.

Don’t read about the mortality figures in that link, they do not apply to the case if Correa - post traumatic ARDS has no significant effect on the mortality vs similar injuries without ARDS. The figures you see for generalised ARDS are from the other sources - pneumonia/flu, aspiration of food/fluid, sepsis, etc and those patients are generally much older and less healthy than Correa or in the case of sepsis already suffering from a very serious infection and potentially multiple organ failure.

In terms of post traumatic ARDS the mortality figure is around 27% - see my previous post in this topic for source - and that is statistically identical to patients with the same injuries who don’t develop ARDS.

In other words ARDS doesn’t kill people, it increases hospital stay length and will slow his general recovery (can’t do further surgeries because it would kill him) but it most likely won’t be why he dies if he does.

————

The treatment is I’m afraid just waiting:

They ventilate the patient or preferably use something called extracorporeal membrane oxygenation [ECMO] (rather than ventilate with a tube down the throat they attach pipes to the patients veins and pass the blood through a machine which oxygenations the blood, you’ll see similar if you’ve ever seen heart surgery although in this case the machine is not taking over heart function as well) - this allows the lungs to rest.

And then wait for the swelling in the lungs to go down, then they slowly allow the lungs to take over breathing duties again - probably over a day or two.

Again from the source in my previous post, the normal time for a patient to be treated for post traumatic ARDS is in the region of 7-14 days. That’s average, some people will take longer.

Honestly, it’s one of those cases where every day you don’t hear something it’s probably good news in terms of survival. There are complications of ECMO which would eventually become problematic but it’s better than mechanical ventilation in these cases so it’s worth it.

But on the whole don’t expect much of a change for another week or so - if we get significantly beyond that point and have heard nothing it becomes concerning. But it is just waiting and everyone’s body reacts differently to things. His parents said no real change between now and the start, but that could be from their perspective rather than medical, they said some things had improved and some things had got worse - if the thing improving is his lungs it’s good. Things getting worse doesn’t mean much without knowing what they are.

————

So yeah to everyone as a bit of a TLDR, the same as my previous post. This latest update from his parents is expected, you’d expect the patient to be treated for post traumatic acute respiratory syndrome for 1-2 weeks on average, some longer some shorter. This condition while serious and deadly outside of a hospital does not increase the mortality rate of the patient (when compared to the same injuries in patients without ARDS). It will mean he stays in hospital longer and will make recovery more difficult. But it won’t be what kills him if he dies. Remember medical terms, critical just means “if we stopped treating the patient then the patient would most likely die” and stable means “not getting worse”.

It’s going to be potentially another 2 weeks before we hear good news. It might also be tomorrow, it’s a very uncertain thing and depends entirely on how his body deals with everything. Longer doesn’t mean worse and shorter doesn’t mean better.

In the last few major injuries to drivers we’ve been talking about brain injuries where there are very clear trends about time to wake vs recovery - that doesn’t exist here this is just how long he takes.

Edited by l12mcg, 16 September 2019 - 12:36.


#79 BRK

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Posted 16 September 2019 - 14:24

This is just horrible to follow. Wish him luck and hope he is able to recover.  :|



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#80 7MGTEsup

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Posted 16 September 2019 - 14:28

I don't know about the freezing of the abdominal muscles but I've seen countless times guys that are about to take a hard smack pull their hands off the wheel and cross them over their chests.

 

 

That is so they don't break their wrists when the steering wheel rotates when the wheels make contact with something, and to try and stop their arms from flailing about in the event the car rolls over.



#81 Frood

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Posted 16 September 2019 - 18:37

That is so they don't break their wrists when the steering wheel rotates when the wheels make contact with something

 

Yep. Broke my wrist in a fairly slow kart accident. It's not pleasant. Would certainly not want to be doing that in a faster car.



#82 whitewaterMkII

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Posted 16 September 2019 - 18:48

That is so they don't break their wrists when the steering wheel rotates when the wheels make contact with something, and to try and stop their arms from flailing about in the event the car rolls over.

Back in the day my brother and I worked on a few Drag Boats, in those the drivers legs were tethered together so if he bailed out (no seat belts in those things) at 150mph or so he didn't get split up the middle. They also wore their own parachute to pull them away from the wreckage. All fun and games until someone gets ejected.



#83 absinthedude

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Posted 16 September 2019 - 19:38

That is so they don't break their wrists when the steering wheel rotates when the wheels make contact with something, and to try and stop their arms from flailing about in the event the car rolls over.

 

Didn't both Niki Lauda and Alain Prost suffer broken wrists from steering wheels in otherwise harmless accidents in the 80s? It's definitely a thing. And there are lots of photos around from earlier decades of drivers rolling over with their arms flailing around outside the cockpit. At least one driver lost an arm that way.

 

So it's good practise to take hands off the wheel and cross them over the chest. 

 

Hoping that "no news is good news" for now regarding Correa. The explanation above is excellent and somewhat hopeful.



#84 Marklar

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Posted 17 September 2019 - 19:37

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#85 P123

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Posted 17 September 2019 - 19:45

A small step forward, good to hear. Obviously a long way to go.

#86 messy

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Posted 17 September 2019 - 19:47

That sounds quite positive doesn’t it?

His lungs recovering, however gradually, is very good news.

#87 l12mcg

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Posted 17 September 2019 - 20:19

If he is still on ECMO it’ll be a day or two maybe longer before he’s off that - depends how he responds to breathing on his own.

Should point out the ventilator isn’t actually doing anything really currently, it will probably be running but his blood is being oxygenated by the ECMO.

They may want to keep him in a coma while they fix his legs in which case they’ll want him off the ECMO but keep the normal vent in, they’ll probably wait a day or two post ECMO for any surgeries, you need to fill the patient full of anti-coagulants (to stop the blood clotting) when they are on ECMO, and they’ll probably want that to get out his system before they start manipulating bones - bones bleed a lot - and generally cutting.

ECMO is not a great long term thing so they’ll be getting him off ASAP, the problem is the anti-coagulants it makes brain bleeds a lot more likely to occur.

He had already had some surgery post accident so I would assume his legs are probably safe (from amputation), it’s just they need a bit more work to get them properly put back together and functional.

Like I’ve been saying, this is looking pretty decent for him all things considered. It makes sense, it was a huge accident but it was also a crash the car was designed for, Hubert’s crash was outside what the car was made for but these things are made to smash front on into things at very high speed and for the drive to be ok.

If he can ever get back in a race car again is a very different issue.

The current question is walking, at least unaided, and how well he’ll be able to we don’t know what kind of damage he had to everything. It might just be to the bones or he might be missing soft tissue, there is no way for us to know. But it seems like he’ll be alive and they are still talking about him having legs so that seems promising as well!

If he can walk, I can’t imagine he won’t try to get back in a car. Even if he can’t walk well I can’t imagine he won’t try.

So that’s good news :)

#88 E1pix

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Posted 17 September 2019 - 22:28

We can hope and predict he'll physically recover enough to try driving again.

Emotionally, that's another matter entirely. Though he was probably forced wide by other cars, that decision will haunt him for a very long time.

#89 OO7

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Posted 17 September 2019 - 22:43

I don't know about the freezing of the abdominal muscles but I've seen countless times guys that are about to take a hard smack pull their hands off the wheel and cross them over their chests.

My bro-in-law had a little over 5000 hours in F-16s and in his case when he knew when he was coming up on a hard G load he described pushing his belly muscles like he's taking a crap. The G-suit is mainly to keep blood from rushing into their legs. Poor guy, he's now a two star and is definitely starting to feel those thousands of G's he's pulled over the years in his back and neck. You hand in your wings when you get a star so he hasn't flown fighters in years. Bonus points though for his position now, he's the commander of an un-named state national guard and so he has his own UH-60 and two full crews right outside his office door 24/7/365

I think that's the M-1 Anti-G Straining Manoeuvre.



#90 messy

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 07:01

We can hope and predict he'll physically recover enough to try driving again.

Emotionally, that's another matter entirely. Though he was probably forced wide by other cars, that decision will haunt him for a very long time.

 

He lost his front wing. I don't think he had a great deal of say which part of the track he ended up on. 

 

Although yeah, the emotional/mental toil of what happened would affect anyone regardless of the circumstances. 



#91 ThisIsMischaW

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 09:52

If he's lucky he won't remember anything of the crash.



#92 E1pix

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 14:53

The family reported early on that he was struggling with what had happened to Hubert.

He lost his front wing. I don't think he had a great deal of say which part of the track he ended up on.

Rephrasing... per my using "decision," it's natural to think one could have done something differently in a case like this.

#93 Lotusseven

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 13:55

I just found this 18h old tweet: https://twitter.com/...769158501883907

 

"I am very happy to inform you that today JM Correa is already breathing again by his own means.

The artificial respirator has been disconnected which is great news, his lungs recover satisfactorily.

Next week begins the "reconstruction" of his legs."

 

:)  



#94 OO7

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 14:14

I just found this 18h old tweet: https://twitter.com/...769158501883907

 

"I am very happy to inform you that today JM Correa is already breathing again by his own means.

The artificial respirator has been disconnected which is great news, his lungs recover satisfactorily.

Next week begins the "reconstruction" of his legs."

 

:)  

That's great news! :up:



#95 messy

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 14:41

That's very good news. Good find!



#96 Lotusseven

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 14:42

That's great news! :up:

 

Yes, very good, I hope JM is out of danger now.

 

JM's mother posted some news on her Facebook.

 

The 20-year-old Ecuadorian pilot has been disconnected from the artificial respirator. , according to a post on the Facebook of his mother, Marìa del Carmen Borja, in which he expresses his feelings for the advance of Correa.

"Extremely happy to report that JuanMa did it again today! He is without a fan and breathing on his own for some hours now. He is still with a very high level of sedation but semi-conscious"

They also indicate that all of their respiratory and vital signs are very good. And as the hours go by the risk of having to go back to the respirator disappears.

"JuanMa did his part and all of you yours. The immense amount of positive thoughts and prayers in favor is like having the entire Grand Stand bar in your favor. The result could only be this," added in the message. 

They also claim that surgery on your leg should occur no later than next week. Once your body is ready. "  

The whole world is in solidarity with Juan Manuel Correa. After the accident he suffered in Formula 2, the 20-year-old Ecuadorian pilot was induced to coma and await an improvement in his health.

Given this, several pilots and expilots of the highest category (F1) such as Sebastián Vettel, Fernando Alonso Jean-Eric Vergne, Valtteri Bottas, among others joined and sent messages of support to Juan Manuel and his family. Immediately, his parents created the 'Stay Strong Juan Manuel' campaign with which they ask everyone to send messages of encouragement so that, when he wakes up, they encourage him to continue his recovery. 

 

https://lahora.com.e...n-#staystrongjm


#97 E1pix

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 15:30

AWESOME!!!

#98 Anja

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 15:32

Sounds good. Hopefully the worst is over now. 



#99 TheGoldenStoffel

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 15:38

Oh man that's such a big relief! Hopefully he keeps on this positive trajectory!



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#100 l12mcg

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 16:15

Woo! Hopefully I don’t have to explain any more scary sounding thing.

Should be fairly “easy” now, like I said before we have no idea how bad is injuries are but he still has legs and already had at least one surgery to stabilise them which is always a positive, this will hopefully just be making sure they are right.

All things considered, looking pretty good from here.