Jump to content


Photo
* * * * * 1 votes

2019 Italian GP race thread


  • Please log in to reply
1499 replies to this topic

Poll: 2019 Italian GP (101 member(s) have cast votes)

Race winner?

  1. Leclerc (34 votes [33.66%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 33.66%

  2. Hamilton (49 votes [48.51%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 48.51%

  3. Bottas (4 votes [3.96%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 3.96%

  4. Vettel (11 votes [10.89%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 10.89%

  5. Somebody else (3 votes [2.97%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 2.97%

Points scorers?

  1. Renault (89 votes [31.01%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 31.01%

  2. McLaren (78 votes [27.18%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 27.18%

  3. Racing Point (41 votes [14.29%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 14.29%

  4. Alfa Romeo (42 votes [14.63%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 14.63%

  5. Haas (6 votes [2.09%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 2.09%

  6. Toro Rosso (30 votes [10.45%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 10.45%

  7. Williams (1 votes [0.35%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 0.35%

Where will Max finish?

  1. P1-P3 (4 votes [3.96%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 3.96%

  2. P4-P6 (52 votes [51.49%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 51.49%

  3. P7-P10 (26 votes [25.74%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 25.74%

  4. No points/DNF (17 votes [16.83%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 16.83%

  5. I can't decide - but ahead of Albon (2 votes [1.98%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 1.98%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#1 TomNokoe

TomNokoe
  • Member

  • 33,568 posts
  • Joined: July 11

Posted 08 September 2019 - 10:25

It's raceday ... Charles Leclerc starts on pole position, looking for second grand prix victory so soon after his first. You know what they say about Monegasque buses.

 

Behind, the Mercedes are ready to bounce - rain overnight may help their cause on a cold, green track. In the second Ferrari, Vettel will be aiming to reverse the wrongs of his season so far, never mind yesterday's Q3 antics, and is clearly more comfortable than he was one week ago.

 

Renault finally came good and need to score heavy points to regain some momentum in the battle for P4 in the Constructors'. Albon, the sole Red Bull in Q3, faces another battling drive after a difficult qualifying.

 

Further back, Giovinazzi and Kvyat are well-poised with free tyre choice and quick racecars. The latter with one eye on another strong result.

Verstappen starts from the very back along with Norris, Gasly and Perez. Pit lane for Kimi.

 

And no, it isn't going to rain.

 

Welcome to Round 14 of the 2019 FIA Formula One World Championship

 

image.jpg





Italy-Grid.png

ED4-YDts-Ws-AExrji.jpg

 

ED7-A7wv-Wk-AA8-ZCF.jpg

 

ED4z5-Ge-Xk-AE8d1-Z.jpg

 

--

 

Assorted forlorn weather forecasts, interesting tactics observations, and raceday predictions welcome below...


Edited by TomNokoe, 08 September 2019 - 12:48.


Advertisement

#2 ConsiderAndGo

ConsiderAndGo
  • Member

  • 9,726 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 08 September 2019 - 10:27

Hamilton comfortable win.

Verstappen 5th.

Leclerc and Bottas to make the podium.

Renault best of the rest.

Predicting a vey dull race.

#3 Ivanhoe

Ivanhoe
  • RC Forum Host

  • 17,659 posts
  • Joined: November 15

Posted 08 September 2019 - 10:30

To finish 5th, Max has to deal with Albon, will be interesting to see.

#4 MinardiCrashDummy

MinardiCrashDummy
  • Member

  • 1,222 posts
  • Joined: June 19

Posted 08 September 2019 - 10:30

Leclerc should win this

 

Interesting that pirelli think the soft to hard isn't that much different to soft/medium. Might allow the undercut to work well and if Ferrari have tire issues to avoid them.



#5 cheekybru

cheekybru
  • Member

  • 2,047 posts
  • Joined: March 14

Posted 08 September 2019 - 10:33

Thanks OP :)

How is the weather?

How were the long runs in practice?

#6 Goron3

Goron3
  • Member

  • 4,450 posts
  • Joined: April 11

Posted 08 September 2019 - 10:34

Thanks OP :)

How is the weather?

How were the long runs in practice?

It's a lovely day, warmer than I expected actually.

Even if Charles gets away well, I think Lewis will likely have this in the bag due to the Merc's long run pace. As we've seen all year, Ferrari really struggle after the pit stops. Ferrari need Seb to get off the line well and to jump at least one Merc.

Looking forward to Max driving through the pack.

Edited by Goron3, 08 September 2019 - 10:36.


#7 Eff1

Eff1
  • Member

  • 743 posts
  • Joined: July 17

Posted 08 September 2019 - 10:37

So no rain?

I predict a quick race pace from Hamilton, Ferrari on the defensive. Will be difficult for Leclerc to pull off a win vs 2 Mercedes. Ferrari’s chances down to how good a start Vettel gets, if he gets in the mix with the front two then there is a chance.

#8 Marklar

Marklar
  • Member

  • 44,281 posts
  • Joined: May 15

Posted 08 September 2019 - 10:37

Assuming they manage the start in starting position it will be interesting to see if Vettel can attack the traditionally towards the end of the stints fading Bottas, which would then take away Mercedes' strategy advantage.

If the Mercedes are 2-3 they can attack Leclerc from all fronts by having one under and the other overcut him. Given the tyre management so far this season it would surprise me if he could hang on then, especially since Mercedes appears much quicker throught the Parabolica which would set them up well for an overtake.

The small gap in qualifying makes it suspicious that Ferrari may have set up more for the race, the new engine is also supposed to be more efficient in the race. We'll see.



#9 Ivanhoe

Ivanhoe
  • RC Forum Host

  • 17,659 posts
  • Joined: November 15

Posted 08 September 2019 - 10:42

No M-S? That’s surely faster than M-H?

ED7-A7wv-Wk-AA8-ZCF.jpg

#10 BuddyHolly

BuddyHolly
  • Member

  • 3,554 posts
  • Joined: December 15

Posted 08 September 2019 - 10:44

Ferrari's to start fast but the Mercs tyre management is still light years ahead.   Hamilton win imo.

I hope Albon has a good race, I like the lad.  as for Max, I feel a DNF but hope I'm wrong.

(1: Ham, 2: Lec, 3: Vet)



#11 shure

shure
  • Member

  • 9,738 posts
  • Joined: April 17

Posted 08 September 2019 - 10:44

No M-S? That’s surely faster than M-H?

ED7-A7wv-Wk-AA8-ZCF.jpg

probably they don't feel the Mediums will be able to go far enough to allow the race to be completed on the Softs?



#12 Kev00

Kev00
  • Member

  • 4,656 posts
  • Joined: July 15

Posted 08 September 2019 - 10:44

Despite what some people say Mercedes strategy has been excellent and combined with Hamilton’s tyre management I can’t see Leclerc keeping them behind.

#13 shure

shure
  • Member

  • 9,738 posts
  • Joined: April 17

Posted 08 September 2019 - 10:46

Assuming they manage the start in starting position it will be interesting to see if Vettel can attack the traditionally towards the end of the stints fading Bottas, which would then take away Mercedes' strategy advantage.

If the Mercedes are 2-3 they can attack Leclerc from all fronts by having one under and the other overcut him. Given the tyre management so far this season it would surprise me if he could hang on then, especially since Mercedes appears much quicker throught the Parabolica which would set them up well for an overtake.

The small gap in qualifying makes it suspicious that Ferrari may have set up more for the race, the new engine is also supposed to be more efficient in the race. We'll see.

I think the tyre management will be more of a decider than the engine efficiency.  I'm not confident the Ferraris will be able to hang on but hope I'm wrong.  


Edited by shure, 08 September 2019 - 10:46.


#14 Kalmake

Kalmake
  • Member

  • 4,492 posts
  • Joined: November 07

Posted 08 September 2019 - 10:53

probably they don't feel the Mediums will be able to go far enough to allow the race to be completed on the Softs?

They have soft-medium there. Medium-soft should be easier than that as you have the harder tyre with heavier car.



#15 renzmann

renzmann
  • Member

  • 5,962 posts
  • Joined: February 19

Posted 08 September 2019 - 11:02

will max still have a park fermé advantage if it doesn't rain today? i guess so, right? the other teams must have been cautious of at least a slight chance of rain yesterday. that would mean their setup would not be 100% for dry conditions.



#16 Zoetrope

Zoetrope
  • Member

  • 1,408 posts
  • Joined: April 12

Posted 08 September 2019 - 11:03

I am expecting Spa repeat, where Lewis will just capitalise on his better tire wear later on in the race. But this time, I think he will make it work.



#17 Goron3

Goron3
  • Member

  • 4,450 posts
  • Joined: April 11

Posted 08 September 2019 - 11:05

will max still have a park fermé advantage if it doesn't rain today? i guess so, right? the other teams must have been cautious of at least a slight chance of rain yesterday. that would mean their setup would not be 100% for dry conditions.


They definitely did set up for dry conditions as the amount of race forecast for the race was minimal. There isn't really such a thing as a wet set up anymore.

#18 TomNokoe

TomNokoe
  • Member

  • 33,568 posts
  • Joined: July 11

Posted 08 September 2019 - 11:06

Personally I think Ferrari will be able to fend off Mercedes. I feel like they've been hiding something, deliberately or not, all weekend.

Vettel looks to be on Leclerc's pace this weekend so it will be interesting to see if the season-long trend of Vettel having the upper hand on Sundays returns, after alluding him last week.

I desperately want Vettel to win the race, but I don't think he will. His season has been mediocre enough pace-wise, but now he's starting to lose the rub of the green. The stat about him not winning when starting outside the top 3 continues to baffle me. I wouldn't be surprised if he locks up into T1, or makes contact with one of the Mercedes, running a compromised race thereafter. Hopefully he can prove me wrong.

Leclerc winning last week was "good for Motorsport" and I think the same could be said for Seb, today.

Not sure what to make of strategy/tyres. Will the green track be offset by the cool temperatures, or will it just make things worse? The midfielders on M-S are going to steam through in the later stages.

The tow was super-effective in F2 so I think it's likely to be even moreso later on.

Edited by TomNokoe, 08 September 2019 - 11:06.


#19 Kalmake

Kalmake
  • Member

  • 4,492 posts
  • Joined: November 07

Posted 08 September 2019 - 11:18

They definitely did set up for dry conditions as the amount of race forecast for the race was minimal. There isn't really such a thing as a wet set up anymore.

There would be wet setup on this track because it's so low downforce in the dry. They would use bigger wing in the wet.



Advertisement

#20 Jovanotti

Jovanotti
  • Member

  • 8,255 posts
  • Joined: October 11

Posted 08 September 2019 - 11:20

What's the final grid order?

#21 w1Y

w1Y
  • Member

  • 10,606 posts
  • Joined: March 16

Posted 08 September 2019 - 11:24

Vettel
Bottas
Leclerc
Lewis

#22 CoolBreeze

CoolBreeze
  • Member

  • 2,450 posts
  • Joined: January 12

Posted 08 September 2019 - 11:27

I think Vettel will take this one. 



#23 krapmeister

krapmeister
  • Member

  • 11,565 posts
  • Joined: August 08

Posted 08 September 2019 - 11:28

Given the speed Renault has shown, perhaps we'll see Ricciardo pull some of his trademark divebombs at Monza again?



#24 w1Y

w1Y
  • Member

  • 10,606 posts
  • Joined: March 16

Posted 08 September 2019 - 11:29

ric at 250/1 ew for an outside bet

#25 Augurk

Augurk
  • Member

  • 5,512 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 08 September 2019 - 11:29

What's the final grid order?

BgZmZ3D.png



#26 f1paul

f1paul
  • Member

  • 8,276 posts
  • Joined: April 16

Posted 08 September 2019 - 11:30



#27 Jordan44

Jordan44
  • Member

  • 10,709 posts
  • Joined: May 15

Posted 08 September 2019 - 11:31

I think Vettel will take this one.


Wouldn't that be Vettel's first ever win from beyond a top 3 position?

#28 Jovanotti

Jovanotti
  • Member

  • 8,255 posts
  • Joined: October 11

Posted 08 September 2019 - 11:34


What's the final grid order?

BgZmZ3D.png
Thanks, so that except for Kimi starting from the pitlane I guess.

#29 TomNokoe

TomNokoe
  • Member

  • 33,568 posts
  • Joined: July 11

Posted 08 September 2019 - 11:35

Thanks, so that except for Kimi starting from the pitlane I guess.


Perez starts from the back too.

I would've included that in the OP but didn't because there should be an update soon!

#30 CoolBreeze

CoolBreeze
  • Member

  • 2,450 posts
  • Joined: January 12

Posted 08 September 2019 - 11:41

Wouldn't that be Vettel's first ever win from beyond a top 3 position?

 

no idea mate. but he needs this one desperately.



#31 TomNokoe

TomNokoe
  • Member

  • 33,568 posts
  • Joined: July 11

Posted 08 September 2019 - 11:41

Wouldn't that be Vettel's first ever win from beyond a top 3 position?


Yes, hence why it won't happen. Crazy stat.

#32 Atreiu

Atreiu
  • Member

  • 17,232 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 08 September 2019 - 11:42

Leclerc is the clear favourite simply because Vettel is starting too far behind. Ferrari will have no qualm at all about using him as a roadblock for a second time and that will be the end of it.



#33 Atreiu

Atreiu
  • Member

  • 17,232 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 08 September 2019 - 11:43

I think Vettel will take this one. 

 

Maybe with guys ahead crashing out.



#34 f1paul

f1paul
  • Member

  • 8,276 posts
  • Joined: April 16

Posted 08 September 2019 - 11:46

I would love to see Ferrari 1-2 after the first lap. Crowd will go mad.

 

Will it happen after 53 laps? I hope so but it will be very tough.

 

Hamilton favourite but he can't afford to lose out to Bottas at the start and Vettel must get past at least one of the Mercs.



#35 Eff1

Eff1
  • Member

  • 743 posts
  • Joined: July 17

Posted 08 September 2019 - 11:46

It’s an interesting row 3 - wonder how those guys will behave at the start, also wonder whether Renault can execute a perfect race and bring those cars home at least in those positions....

#36 Tsarwash

Tsarwash
  • Member

  • 13,725 posts
  • Joined: August 10

Posted 08 September 2019 - 11:48

Oh God, I have just read this.

The Stewards reviewed multiple camera angles, some of which appeared to show that the tyres were not in contact with the white line of the track edge however other angles appeared to show that part of the front “wheel” (when viewed from above) may have been within the bounds of the white line.  This cast an element of doubt which is considered significant enough to give the “benefit of doubt” to the driver in question.
from here, one of the documents. https://www.fia.com/...nts/event/24940

 

Now I'm not arguing that Seb should or shouldn't have his lap time thrown out, but it would be nice if the FIA actually bothered to decide by which way they were going to judge if a car is out of bounds. By that wording, it seems as though they are using both the contact method, and the side of the tyre-wall is level. Just pick one of the damn things and stick with it !! So it turns out that both sides were right yesterday when judging if he was in or out. ffs FIA. 



#37 Lights

Lights
  • Member

  • 17,874 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 08 September 2019 - 11:49

If nothing in particular happens to one of the Merc's, surely they take this one. 

 

Ferrari, after narrowly winning at Spa, I don't see why they'd win here today. Though I'd love to see another Leclerc win, one where he can be truly happy about it.



#38 Anja

Anja
  • Member

  • 10,284 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 08 September 2019 - 11:49

Quietly hoping for a Danny Ric podium. Any trouble among the top teams and it might be possible... 


Edited by Anja, 08 September 2019 - 11:50.


#39 milestone 11

milestone 11
  • Member

  • 17,340 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 08 September 2019 - 11:50

I'm desperately enthusing over what trifle of bullshit will take this thread beyond the 37 pages of the build up thread.



Advertisement

#40 Perfection

Perfection
  • Member

  • 661 posts
  • Joined: March 18

Posted 08 September 2019 - 11:51

I can't believe Sky just justified stewards's decision of not giving penalty to Vettel as being Ferrari driver at Monza!

 

How is it being following the rules! They should be impartial no matter what the circumstances are.. 

 

Then let's NOT touch Mercedes in Germany, Renault in France or RB (due to Honda link) in Austria/Japan... This is ridiculous and unfair. 


Edited by Perfection, 08 September 2019 - 11:57.


#41 ConsiderAndGo

ConsiderAndGo
  • Member

  • 9,726 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 08 September 2019 - 11:53

I can't believe Sky just justified stewards's decision of not giving penalty to Vettel as being Ferrari driver at Monza!

How is it being following the rules! They should be impartial no matter what the circumstances are..

Then let's NOT touch Mercedes in Germany, Renault in France or RB ( due to Honda link) in Japan... This is ridiculous and unfair.


And you take what those utter morons on Sky say as fact? Lol.

On your own.

#42 TomNokoe

TomNokoe
  • Member

  • 33,568 posts
  • Joined: July 11

Posted 08 September 2019 - 11:54

Leclerc is the clear favourite simply because Vettel is starting too far behind. Ferrari will have no qualm at all about using him as a roadblock for a second time and that will be the end of it.


I do wonder if his selflessness in Spa (albeit totally forced by lack of pace) and yesterday in qualifying has been noted.

If there's a situation where the order is LEC-HAM-BOT-VET, will Ferrari will let Vettel undercut them all, including his teammate?

The last thing I expect today is for Vettel to be given a second-hand strategy.

#43 shure

shure
  • Member

  • 9,738 posts
  • Joined: April 17

Posted 08 September 2019 - 11:57

I do wonder if his selflessness in Spa (albeit totally forced by lack of pace) and yesterday in qualifying has been noted.

If there's a situation where the order is LEC-HAM-BOT-VET, will Ferrari will let Vettel undercut them all, including his teammate?

The last thing I expect today is for Vettel to be given a second-hand strategy.

you say that, but Ferrari in the not too distant past have shown themselves a little bit suspect when it comes to running two strategies.  It often feels like they only ever focus on the lead car and seem to forget they have a second car at all, except where they can use it to help the lead one.



#44 Thursday

Thursday
  • Member

  • 1,287 posts
  • Joined: March 16

Posted 08 September 2019 - 11:58

Interesting back and forth between Brundle and Rosberg about Monaco 2014 qualifying.

 

Rosberg "On the data I was ok"

Rosberg "I had cold brakes"

 

Brundle "Yeah right"



#45 FrontWing

FrontWing
  • Member

  • 6,864 posts
  • Joined: April 15

Posted 08 September 2019 - 12:04

Interesting back and forth between Brundle and Rosberg about Monaco 2014 qualifying.

Rosberg "On the data I was ok"
Rosberg "I had cold brakes"

Brundle "Yeah right"

And yesterday Nico saying that it's easy to fake locking a brake, it's no wonder Lewis didn't trust him after that, and their relationship broke down.

#46 Risil

Risil
  • Administrator

  • 61,507 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 08 September 2019 - 12:06

So did the top 8 all get grid penalties after their hijinx in Q3?



#47 Chunkinator

Chunkinator
  • Member

  • 419 posts
  • Joined: April 16

Posted 08 September 2019 - 12:07

And yesterday Nico saying that it's easy to fake locking a brake, it's no wonder Lewis didn't trust him after that, and their relationship broke down.

 

Well it also broke down a bit before that when Hamilton used higher engine modes than agreed to help win the bahrain race no?

But yeah the race today is going to be interesting, I want to see a ferrari win but I think the mercs still have a race pace advantage, by how much though is the question. Let's just hope they all survive the first lap.



#48 sportyskells

sportyskells
  • Member

  • 4,816 posts
  • Joined: July 13

Posted 08 September 2019 - 12:08

nope Risli, in fact it would have been 9 as Kimi was not part of the issue



#49 w1Y

w1Y
  • Member

  • 10,606 posts
  • Joined: March 16

Posted 08 September 2019 - 12:08

i smell desperate carnage among the top 6 on the grid

#50 Risil

Risil
  • Administrator

  • 61,507 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 08 September 2019 - 12:09

I'm desperately enthusing over what trifle of bullshit will take this thread beyond the 37 pages of the build up thread.

 

Surely if it's a trifle you'd need a few layers of other excreta and refuse in there. Can't lean too heavily on one ingredient.