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On the podium! But.... embarassed, ashamed, compromized, painful podiums


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#1 Henri Greuter

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Posted 10 September 2019 - 19:11

Inspired by some topics in which heated debates about painful manners to end up winning a race, it got me thinking.

What were about the most painful podiums for a driver to be part of, by being embarrased about, ashamed about, feeling compromized and/or exposed ???

In other words: Podiums of which any, if not all three drivers felt unhappy about, if not wished they were somewhere else?

 

I've made a rundown, ordered a bit according the time.

Logically, I left out the races with fatal or serious accidents with uncertainty abouth health of drivers involved.

So, not ranked according most disgraceful but kind of random, starting with the earliest I can think of, podiums and circumstances that might even persuade Nico Hulkenberg to pass for the honor to be part of.....

BTW, I think the selection shows what period of time I followed F1 closely and have more direct memories and knowledge about.

 

Japan 1977:  Hunt, Reuteman Depailler

Only valid for Patrick! Two men actually were somewhere else instead of on the podium, only Patrick Depailler showed up, the others were in a hurry to leave so never showed. Unthinkable nowadays.....

James Hunt passed up on his last ever spot on top of the podium....

 

Netherlands, Zandvoort 1978: Andretti, Peterson, Lauda

Painful to see how in the final laps Mario was nursing a sick car but his teammate with a healthy car not passing his stricken team mate, Anyone else but Peterson could have passed with ease, the pick order in the Lotus team clear to see for everyone. But for poor Ronnie the "Cup with poison" had one more gulp left for him to swallow, the one that, combined with all other circumstances of the moment included, turned out to be fatal alltogether.

 

Imola 1982: Pironi, Villeneuve, Alboreto

Gilles' expression on the podium told it all. And if Pironi felt 100% secure and correct about what he had done that race?

(off the record note: is this the most recent podium ever of which all men involved have by now deceased?)

 

Japan Suzuka 1989: Nannini, Patrese, Boutsen

Poor Alessandro!!! His only victory ever in F1 came in a race loaded with turmoil and far lasting effects because of the disqualification of Senna that was to have dire consequences. Regrettably he never got another victory anymore.

 

Japan Suzuka 1991: Berger, Senna, Patrese

Before the race there had been made a deal that who lead in the first lap was to win the race, Berger lead. But then he got way behind Senna in the race. Senna was reminded about the deal and obeyed by allowing Berger to pass in the very last meters of the race. To show that you only was allowed to win the race because of being gifted the race, how more humiliating could this been shown?

 

Hungary 1997: Villeneuve, Hill, Herbert

Hill appeared to have the race in the bag, one of the most surprising race results ever was coming up. And then the car malfunctioned in the last three laps, Villeneuve overtaking him in the final lap. Even Villeneuve knew it: a gift. But one that brought him 3 more points he needed badly in order to play his share in ....

 

Spain, Jerez 1997: Hakkinen, Coulthardt, Villeneuve

Last race of the season in which Villeneuve needed to score two more points than MS for the title. After the collission between MS and JV that ended the race for JV, all he had to wo was finish 5th or better. Almost certainly pre-arrranged, McLaren that had not interfered in the Ferrari-Williams battle was rewarded with JV surrendering the race and 2nd place to McLaren. With their drivers right behind Villeneuve, McLaren could do something rarely seen before.

If Mika was happy about his first ever victory needing this arrangement between his own team and a rival team and on top of that his team mate also being told to let him by? Exposing him more like a paydriver rewarded for loyalty and input and been given a moment of glory now it could be arranged safely and didn't affect an important resutl any longer then a driver capable to win on own merit.

 

Spain Barcelona 2001. M Schumacher, Montoya, Villeneuve.

Should have been an all dominant victory for Mika Hakkinen had his car not failed him in the very last lap. MS was no cheerful winner, realizing and aknowledging he had been given 4 more points and a victory.

 

Austria 2001: Coulthardt, M Schumacher, Barrichello...

Almost forgotten but in the closing stages of the race the two Ferrari's changed positions by team orders. This time it was only because of a second place. There was more to come....

 

Austria 2002: M Schumacher, Barrichello, Montoya.

Like the year before but now it involved the places 1&2. Embarassment enhanced because of Barrichello fulfilling orders in the same way fellowman Senna had done at Suzuka 1991.

 

USA 2002 Indianapolis:  Barrichello, M Schumacher, Coulthardt

In every manner of the word, Payback time for Austria. MS literally giving away victory in the dying seconds of the race, claiming to have tried to stage a dead heat. Granted, a F1 GP aint a "500", But a number of local fans at Indy, remembering a number of drivers who almost sacrifified everything up to limb and life just to make it into a startinge field at this `holy` facility were not pleased at all to see a victory at the speedway for which men have died in order to achieve it being given away....

 

USA 2005 Indianapolis:  M Schumacher, Barrichello, Monteiro

Half of the drivers that actually started the race were on the podium for this one.

 

 

This were the ones that came to my mind which I rate among the most "painful for whatever reason" podums ever. No doubt I forgot a few.

Any others that people can think off to add to the list?

 

 

 

 



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#2 mangeliiito

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Posted 10 September 2019 - 19:13

Monaco a lot of years!

Just one of them
https://youtu.be/GKxdd1IkVlM

Edited by mangeliiito, 10 September 2019 - 19:17.


#3 Thatfastguy

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Posted 10 September 2019 - 19:17

Monaco ‘16 with Dan was very awkward.

#4 THEWALL

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Posted 10 September 2019 - 19:17

2010 Germany: Ferrari had TO'd Massa with the infamous, "Fernando is faster than you". Massa was mad, Alonso was embarrassed and the press had a field trip afterwards in the post race interview. Luckily for the Ferrari drivers Vettel came to the rescue with some lighthearted comment. You could have cut the air with a knife in the press room... https://www.youtube....h?v=qVoLbUyI0YE


Edited by THEWALL, 10 September 2019 - 19:20.


#5 Marklar

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Posted 10 September 2019 - 19:24

Malaysia 2013, all three drivers embarrassed by team order shenanigans



#6 Baddoer

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Posted 10 September 2019 - 19:46

Brazil 2008 and 2012



#7 Lights

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Posted 10 September 2019 - 19:50

Mexico 2016. A late fight for P3 between Verstappen on old tires and Vettel led to the famous "Here's a message for Charlie...**** Off". 

 

Max crossed the line 3rd and was initially sent to the podium but while in the cooldown room he got penalized 5 seconds and set back to P5, so he left the room.

 

Vettel then went to the podium to celebrate but after the ceremony he was penalized 10 seconds for moving under braking against Ricciardo.

 

Ricciardo ended up being classified 3rd, with Max 4th and Vettel 5th.

 

And in the meantime everyone except Mercedes was pissed off at the stewards anyway because their drivers cut at the start and nothing at all was done about that.

 

A shitshow of events, but it was entertaining!


Edited by Lights, 10 September 2019 - 19:51.


#8 SophieB

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Posted 10 September 2019 - 20:01

Weird to think looking back how Massa was never going to win another race after that .

In general, I think any podium where a driver has died seemed painful/awkward. I still remember them pulling the drivers aside in Japan 2014 and very obviously quietly speaking in Hamilton’s ear about how something awful had happened and to thereforereact appropriately that podium was a very grim affair. Or else it seems painful awkward to the audience because the drivers get it wrong/ don’t get accurate information and so celebrate anyway like Imola 94. They really should cancel the podiums sometimes in my view.

On a lighter note, as Lights has pointed out, any podium that involves a driver getting the old vaudeville crook around the neck to drag them offstage is awkward (yet hilarious, especially if the audience is ahead of the driver in knowing it is going to happen)

#9 garoidb

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Posted 10 September 2019 - 20:04

Imola 1982: Pironi, Villeneuve, Alboreto

Gilles' expression on the podium told it all. And if Pironi felt 100% secure and correct about what he had done that race?

(off the record note: is this the most recent podium ever of which all men involved have by now deceased?)

 

 

I think you are right. This will eventually change due to advancing years, and we lost Niki Lauda this year, but we can hope that they are the last podium group to die from motorsports accidents. 



#10 garoidb

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Posted 10 September 2019 - 20:07

I was going to propose the 1981 Brazilian Grand Prix, after the famous Jones - Reutemann team orders fiasco. It seems Jones did not visit the podium, but not for the same reasons as Hunt and Reutemann in Japan 1977!



#11 TomNokoe

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Posted 10 September 2019 - 20:09

Turkey 2010! Hamilton livid with Button, Webber livid because of Vettel!

#12 mangeliiito

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Posted 10 September 2019 - 21:22

China 2016

"You came like a torpedo!"
"I was racing.. "

https://youtu.be/vp5V5i8Aa2Q

#13 chr1s

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Posted 10 September 2019 - 21:26

Paul Richard, France 1982.  According to Prost it was agreed within the team beforehand that should they both be leading at the end then Arnoux should give way to Prost. He didn't!



#14 midgrid

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Posted 10 September 2019 - 22:19

1981 Belgian Grand Prix - Carlos Reutemann won the race and established a healthy championship lead, but looked thoroughly miserable on the podium. This was because he had struck and fatally injured Giovanni Amadeo in practice, when the Osella mechanic had stumbled into the path of his Williams in the pitlane. The drivers and mechanics protested ahead of the race, leading to a chaotic start in which Arrows mechanic Dave Luckett was hit and injured by one of his own drivers, Riccardo Patrese.

#15 Collombin

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Posted 10 September 2019 - 22:26

I think Henri wanted serious incidents left out of this but fwiw it was Stohr who hit Luckett.

#16 jonpollak

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Posted 10 September 2019 - 22:57

Was at 3 of Henri’s selections.
Indy2005 was by far the most embarrassing.
Podium at Jerez in 97 was fantastic.. after party was even better.

Jp

#17 Imateria

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Posted 10 September 2019 - 23:22

I don't think I'd count Spain 2001. I remember a distinct run of podiums in the early 2000's, usually with one of the Schumachers as victor, where no one looked happy. It only really ended when Button and Alonso started scoring podiums regularly.



#18 Button4life

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 00:01

The podium of Canada 2019 wasn't a good look either. A disappointed, angry Vettel and an awkard Hamilton that knew he won underservely.

#19 eibyyz

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 01:26

Canada 1973?



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#20 Myrvold

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 03:47

2010 Germany: Ferrari had TO'd Massa with the infamous, "Fernando is faster than you". Massa was mad, Alonso was embarrassed and the press had a field trip afterwards in the post race interview. Luckily for the Ferrari drivers Vettel came to the rescue with some lighthearted comment. You could have cut the air with a knife in the press room... https://www.youtube....h?v=qVoLbUyI0YE

The sole thing that I liked with that, was that it for once, seemed like the F1 reporters actually got in to doing their job properly.

 

For one hour or so...



#21 karl100589

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 04:59

Am I the only one who found the Indy 2005 podium funny? It's the contrast between Michael and Rubens' embarrassment and Tiago bouncing around celebrating the life out of it.

#22 Tony Mandara

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 05:23

Spain 2016.

 

 

(That should get this thread moving faster than a nun's first curry!)

 

 

   ;)



#23 Baddoer

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 05:58

 Or else it seems painful awkward to the audience because the drivers get it wrong/ don’t get accurate information and so celebrate anyway like Imola 94.

Having rewatched that podium recently I think nobody did celebrate that day. In fact, Larini (his only podium in carreer) and Schumacher looked pretty grim, with Hakkinen being just cold finn.



#24 Luca Pacchiarini

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 06:29

I feel for Larini.. an enormously talented driver who had his opportunity to shine on the wrong day.
He's someone who dominated the Nordschleife in the DTM glory days - on his debut there and after only ten laps with a road car on friday -

#25 w1Y

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 07:05

Good thread. Massa after the alonso fiasco and i cant remember which track it was when schumacher was allowed to pass on tbr last track but that must have been awkward

#26 Henri Greuter

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 07:26

Nice to see people suggesting a few good ones I had overlooked.

Like Brazil '81 and France '82.

 

About the latter: I remember the deal that was mentioned. But when a Frenchman who has won no race anymore for more than two years, leads his home GP with some half a minute over his teammate is asked to surrender the victory? Without any hesitation?

Besides that, I wonder how the crowd and general opinion would have been towards Prost and Renault if indeed Arnoux had given up such a clear lead, for everyone to see. No doubt this would have lead to a controversy as well.

 

 

 

Also fun to be remembered about some of the recent years that I simply have no recollection of anymore. Some of those more recent additions/suggestions were definitely not on my mind anymore but good to see them mentioned.


Edited by Henri Greuter, 11 September 2019 - 07:27.


#27 SpeedRacer`

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 07:56

Melbourne 1998, Malaysia 2013



#28 Collombin

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 08:21

Having rewatched that podium recently I think nobody did celebrate that day. In fact, Larini (his only podium in carreer) and Schumacher looked pretty grim, with Hakkinen being just cold finn.


Schumi was smiling on the podium initially, obviously before he had been advised of the gravity of Senna's injuries.

#29 NixxxoN

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 08:22

Jerez 1997 podium was really happy for all 3 on it, no idea why you have it on the list...



#30 JeePee

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 08:38

Malaysia 2013.

 

Also know as the Multi 21 race, where Webber slammed his glass of water on the pressco-table.


Edited by JeePee, 11 September 2019 - 08:39.


#31 Henri Greuter

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 08:56

Jerez 1997 podium was really happy for all 3 on it, no idea why you have it on the list...


Read what happened in the very final laps of the race to get to this particular result. The manner Hakkinen was promoted to first reads like a script that I can't imagine Mika must feel about that it made him look as being the fierce contender he could be and proved too be in later years.
I am not going to put down names of drivers but how Mika was promoted to first place was a script that could be used for many a lesser hopeful driver who was never to win a race on his own but could be given the fame and glory since no result for championship or whatever was compromized because of handing him the victory. And the team doing so getting assistnce from another team to make that happen....
I am not a fan of him, never was, but Mika deserved better than being exposed like this.

#32 kevins

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 09:28

Dick Seaman 1938 German GP

 

Hi won the German GP driving for Mercedes and thus had to give an uncomfortable Nazi salute (English drive in case you don't know).

 

Pic/story here

 

https://www.motorspo...ortable-strings.


Edited by kevins, 11 September 2019 - 09:30.


#33 Nemo1965

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 09:42

Regarding the 'painful' podium at Zandvoort 1978: there has been a lot of mythologizing about 'poor Ronnie' not being allowed to show he was a faster driver. I know all the stories about Chapman giving Ronnie extra fuel in qualifying, forcing him to drive with harder tires, and so forth... and most of those stories are just not true. Andretti out-qualified Ronnie in 1978 at most of the races, Ronnie and Mario were great friends during the whole year... but after Ronnie's death many journo's kind of made Ronnie the martyr of Andretti's championship.

 

I could post many facts to debunk this perception of 1978, but I will leave it at this story, which shows how the relationship between Andretti and Peterson was in 1978, in Andretti's own words, in a trailer in a F1-paddock, when Ronnie was still alive:

"Last week after some testing at Monza, a friend asks me to drive this little Fiat 127 back to the Villa D'Este on Lake Como. Ronnie Peterson's following in a 280 Mercedes and I ask him to push me when we hit the steep grade that takes you up into Como. The Swede gets in tight behind me all right and we're bumper to bumper and going like a bat up that hill. Then when we hit the top, I look in the mirror and Ronnie's all scrunched over the wheel—like Jimmy Cagney at Indy in The Crowd Roars—and he's laughing! The guy's gonna keep pushing—downhill!

"So we come pouring off that ridge flat-out, at about 120 miles an hour, and the car ain't built for more than 90, and the motor's going phut-phut-phut and I'm like this"—Andretti saws away at an imaginary wheel—"and then we're coming into this red intersection. I kind of squinch my eyes and pray. Zip-zip! We're through.

"There's a car coming in from the right—a Lancia I think—and the driver's all buggy-eyed, cranking the wheel. He probably figured he was hallucinating. Anyway, when we get to the hotel and shut off the motor, we can't get it started again. Every valve in that Fiat must of been bent sideways." Andretti shakes his head and laughs. "Heck, we took more chances on that ride than we would in 50 GPs."

Peterson had come into the trailer toward the end of the yarn, and he nodded his head, smiling. It is good to remember him that way.


Edited by Nemo1965, 11 September 2019 - 09:43.


#34 Henri Greuter

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 10:02

Dick Seaman 1938 German GP
 
Hi won the German GP driving for Mercedes and thus had to give an uncomfortable Nazi salute (English drive in case you don't know).
 
Pic/story here
 
https://www.motorspo...ortable-strings.


Good one!

In the same period of time, Nurnburgring 1935 GP of Germany : Tazio Nuvolari on Alfa Romeo winning the only event not won by either Mercedes and/or Auto Union that year! The organizers didn't even have a recording of the Italian Hymne for the podium ceremony so Nuvolari provided one himself!

#35 Spillage

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 10:08

Dick Seaman 1938 German GP

Hi won the German GP driving for Mercedes and thus had to give an uncomfortable Nazi salute (English drive in case you don't know).

Pic/story here

https://www.motorspo...ortable-strings.

There's quite a similar story about Tazio Nuvolari winning the German GP in a Ferrari-run Alfa Romeo. Supposedly the organisers were so confident of a German victory that they didn't even have the Italian anthem to hand.

Interesting article about it here: https://www.motorspo...car-beat-hitler

Edit: beaten by a whisker! :D

Edited by Spillage, 11 September 2019 - 10:10.


#36 Lights

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 10:12

How did we forget about Brazil 2003?

 

1900919-2013908.jpg

 

f1-san-marino-gp-2003-giancarlo-fisichel


Edited by Lights, 11 September 2019 - 10:12.


#37 Hati

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 10:20

MS was no cheerful winner, realizing and aknowledging he had been given 4 more points and a victory.

Perhaps slight off topic but I count it as 14 points  because that was the effect on championship standings, Mika had 10 less and MS 4 more. I don't know what the truth is but it feels that all Mikas retirements were such, he got less points and MS more while MS retired always behind Mika so that he didn't gain anything and MS lost little or nothing.



#38 Shuffle

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 10:22

Monaco ‘16 with Dan was very awkward.

The previous year as well when Hamilton lost the win due to that late pitstop. You had a devastated Hamilton, a sheepish Rosberg. There was also Vettel though, who was in that period of almost always being the extra driver on the podium with the two Mercedes drivers, who was having a great time.



#39 F1matt

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 10:31

Away from F1 Max Biaggi and Valentino Rossi had a punch up during the podium ceremony. 



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#40 CornishFellow

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 10:40

Turkey 2010 and Malaysia 2013 come to mind. Not a smile to be seen! It's easy to forget how toxic the Webber/Vettel partnership was. As bad as Hamilton/Rosberg I thought.

 

I did like the dynamic of USA 2005. The Ferrari drivers were doing their best to look sheepish but Montiero was having a wild party!



#41 Retrofly

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 10:43

Away from F1 Max Biaggi and Valentino Rossi had a punch up during the podium ceremony. 

I dont remember this, race/year?

 

Anyone remember hat-gate?


Edited by Retrofly, 11 September 2019 - 10:43.


#42 JRodrigues

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 10:51

Wow.. no mention of Singapore 2008  :cool:



#43 Henri Greuter

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 11:08

Wow.. no mention of Singapore 2008  :cool:


The only one on the podium who maybe knew something nasty had happened in that race and was on the podium because of that was Alonso. If we knew during the race itself already what had been going on it may well have been a different matter.
Retrospectively an awkward podium but at the time not yet. Unless Alonso knew....

#44 Henri Greuter

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 11:11

Anyone remember hat-gate?


You mean the event when after the race Lewis oh-so subtile threw that hat with #2 on it to Rosberg to wear for the podium?
If so, wasn't that Austin (COTA) 2015???

#45 Tsarwash

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 11:15

Read what happened in the very final laps of the race to get to this particular result. The manner Hakkinen was promoted to first reads like a script that I can't imagine Mika must feel about that it made him look as being the fierce contender he could be and proved too be in later years.
I am not going to put down names of drivers but how Mika was promoted to first place was a script that could be used for many a lesser hopeful driver who was never to win a race on his own but could be given the fame and glory since no result for championship or whatever was compromized because of handing him the victory. And the team doing so getting assistnce from another team to make that happen....
I am not a fan of him, never was, but Mika deserved better than being exposed like this.

Villeneuve remembers it differently.

I don't know how much he is telling the whole truth there, however. But the idea of not pushing because he didn't need to win the race and the car could have been damaged should be taken into account. 



#46 Tsarwash

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 11:18

Dick Seaman 1938 German GP

 

Hi won the German GP driving for Mercedes and thus had to give an uncomfortable Nazi salute (English drive in case you don't know).

 

Pic/story here

 

https://www.motorspo...ortable-strings.

 

Yikes, that must have been damn uncomfortable. 



#47 JRodrigues

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 11:19

The only one on the podium who maybe knew something nasty had happened in that race and was on the podium because of that was Alonso. If we knew during the race itself already what had been going on it may well have been a different matter.
Retrospectively an awkward podium but at the time not yet. Unless Alonso knew....

 

Briatore was also there to receive the team's trophy.



#48 midgrid

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 11:19

I think Henri wanted serious incidents left out of this but fwiw it was Stohr who hit Luckett.

 

Oops, yes, I got the Arrowses mixed up, and sorry Henri, I didn't see that condition in your original post.



#49 Risil

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 11:35

Away from F1 Max Biaggi and Valentino Rossi had a punch up during the podium ceremony.

 

This happened on the way up or down from the podium. They weren't trading blows in public! That was at the Catalan GP in 2001 -- the podium at Suzuka that year was pretty frosty too, after Biaggi had elbowed Rossi off the road at 140mph.
 


#50 blackhand2010

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 11:35

The Champ Car race at Mont-Tremblant in 2007, had an interesting podium with Sebastien Bourdais refusing to shake hands with Robert Doornos after the former accused the latter of blocking.

Bourdais got booed by the crowd for his troubles...