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1960 Brands Hatch race on TV, any chance it’s still out there?


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#1 kartman24

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Posted 16 September 2019 - 21:01

I was told that the 6th August 1960 Brands Hatch event that my car competed in was shown on TV at the time, where would be a good place to try to see if it is still in existence?............Martin



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#2 Gary C

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Posted 16 September 2019 - 21:41

For starters....which channel?

#3 kartman24

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Posted 16 September 2019 - 21:53

Sorry don`t even know that, how many were there in 1960, at a guess BBC................



#4 Vitesse2

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Posted 16 September 2019 - 22:31

Only televised motor racing on August 6th 1960 was apparently from Silverstone. On ITA - ATV London, Southern, Anglia and Ulster showed motor racing at 1.55, 3.05 and 3.40. ATV Midlands and TWW Wales & West didn't show the 1.55 segment.

 

Info from the Telegraph - London edition, so no details for Granada, Scottish etc.

 

However, I do wonder if 'Silverstone' should actually read 'Snetterton', as that was the date of the Vanwall Trophy F2 meeting!



#5 Vitesse2

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Posted 16 September 2019 - 22:41

The Times listings also say Silverstone. Tyne Tees and ABC North both showed the full list.



#6 DouglasM

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Posted 17 September 2019 - 08:46

Maybe a news clip of club event at Brands? I can remember a clip of the thrills and spills at Paddock Hill sometimes ended the evening news.

However, in 1960, 6th August was a Saturday, but Sunday in 1961.



#7 Alan Baker

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Posted 17 September 2019 - 09:17

It is highly unlikely that a live broadcast from 1960 would have survived in any form. TV companies in the UK had only recently acquired video tape recording machines and as they were so expensive, most only had one and they would not generally have been used to record a live sporting event. In any case the tapes were so expensive that they were routinely re-used, which is why so many programmes from the era did not survive. The only archive material from the late fifties/early sixties is material which survives on film, either shot on film originally, or "telerecorded" onto film, usually for export markets. Having said that I have seen what appears to be telerecordings of some late fifties events so you never know.



#8 Sterzo

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Posted 17 September 2019 - 14:22

It's just possible that if you contacted ITV, they could tell if they have anything covering that meeting in their archive. I know an author who was given footage of a music concert relevant to his work. Here's the website:

 

https://www.itv.com/...ent/itv-archive

 

No idea if BBC have a similar site.

 

There is, or used to be, a forum populated by old broadcasters. Rather like a TV Nostalgia Forum. Unfortunately, I can't remember where on earth it is.



#9 Michael Oliver

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 06:20

What car are we talking about? Might help to narrow things down a bit... As the previous poster has said, 6th August 1960 was a Saturday. My recollection is that most races at Brands were on a Sunday. Are you quite sure of the year?

#10 GazChed

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 07:34

Are you sure it wasn't August 1st ? This would have been Bank Holiday Monday in 1960 . The Brands Hatch Grand Prix circuit held it's first meeting headlined by the Silver City Trophy , a non championship Formula One race won , I think , by Jack Brabham . One of the supporting races was the John Davy Trophy Formula Junior race won by Jim Clark . Highly likely one of the TV stations would have televised this meeting given it's significance .

Edited by GazChed, 18 September 2019 - 07:58.


#11 Vitesse2

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 08:08

August 1st meeting was shown on BBC, although it was the usual short slots in amongst coverage of athletics (GB&NI v France) and cricket (Surrey v Notts). They seem to have shown the Raffles Club Trophy (1.35-1.50), the John Davy Trophy (2.05-2.20), the first few laps of the Silver City Trophy (3.10-3.32) and its finish (4.20-4.32 and 4.37-4.50). The five minute gap was filled by athletics - presumably either a mile, 1500m or relays?

 

Later that day on BBC you could have watched Benny Hill and then Follow the Fleet, starring Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers ... unless you preferred Criss Cross Quiz on ITA.



#12 Alan Baker

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 08:32

eWhat car are we talking about? Might help to narrow things down a bit... As the previous poster has said, 6th August 1960 was a Saturday. My recollection is that most races at Brands were on a Sunday. Are you quite sure of the year?

 

There was no top line motor racing, or indeed any sport, in the UK on Sundays until the 1970s. It was illegal to sell tickets to sporting events on Sundays and what events there were had to resort to admission by programme (it was not illegal to sell a programme!).

According to Motor Sport's events listing for August 1960, the Silverstone meeting was a closed event organised by the B.R.S.C. (note, not BRSCC!).


Edited by Alan Baker, 18 September 2019 - 08:43.


#13 Tim Murray

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 08:54

Brands Hatch must have found a way around these Sunday restrictions, as both their F2 races in the autumn of 1960 were run on Sundays:

http://www.the-fastl...la2/F260_17.htm

http://www.the-fastl...la2/F260_26.htm

#14 GazChed

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 09:13

Are you sure about the no racing on Sundays law ?If you go , as Tim and I did , to the Formula 2.net site throughout the year there are several examples where meetings are held on consecutive days suggesting that they were held on both Saturdays and Sundays . On a personal level I can remember going to scrambles ( not Motocross in those days! )most Sundays .

#15 Tim Murray

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 09:48

Confirmation in this earlier thread that most meetings at Brands Hatch (and some elsewhere in the UK) were held on Sundays:

When did Sunday racing start?

It would appear that the way around the Sunday entertainment restrictions was to admit spectators free but charge them for parking and programmes.

#16 2F-001

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 09:54

I still have programmes from Sunday events I attended as a child in the late 60s - and the programmes were, I'm sure, price-marked extras, not a part of admission. I don't recall us paying for car-parking at Mallory - though there was usually an evening curfew for, we always understood, for the local church service.

 

On the other hand, I believe the British Grand Prix remained a Saturday fixture until the mid-70s.

 

(During the period that the GP alternated between Brands and Silverstone, I have a memory the latter persisting with a Saturday running after Brands changed... perhaps it was, in reality, only for a year or two... or maybe that was the International Trophy... or maybe I imagined it... I'll have to do a little browsing later...)


Edited by 2F-001, 18 September 2019 - 10:00.


#17 Alan Baker

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 10:02

Confirmation in this earlier thread that most meetings at Brands Hatch (and some elsewhere in the UK) were held on Sundays:

When did Sunday racing start?

It would appear that the way around the Sunday entertainment restrictions was to admit spectators free but charge them for parking and programmes.

Indeed, you couldn't sell tickets on a Sunday, so no really large scale events took place. No football or rugby on Sundays, it was always a rest day in cricket matches although there were often charity one day matches on Sundays. England test batsmen Tom Graveney got dropped for taking part in a charity match on the rest day during a test match.



#18 GazChed

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 10:21

Regarding Church services , Thruxton still has to take a break in events on Sunday mornings to accommodate the local church .

#19 Vitesse2

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 11:32

Indeed, you couldn't sell tickets on a Sunday, so no really large scale events took place. No football or rugby on Sundays, it was always a rest day in cricket matches although there were often charity one day matches on Sundays. England test batsmen Tom Graveney got dropped for taking part in a charity match on the rest day during a test match.

For the televised Rothmans Cavaliers games - and I think the first two or three seasons of the John Player Sunday League - the counties got round it by selling you a scorecard.



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#20 DouglasM

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 13:52

Still no idea of the car!



#21 pete53

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 15:00

There was no top line motor racing, or indeed any sport, in the UK on Sundays until the 1970s. It was illegal to sell tickets to sporting events on Sundays and what events there were had to resort to admission by programme (it was not illegal to sell a programme!).

According to Motor Sport's events listing for August 1960, the Silverstone meeting was a closed event organised by the B.R.S.C. (note, not BRSCC!). Alan. The Race of Champions at Brands was on a Sunday from 1967 onwrads,

There were exceptions to this - the Race of Champions at Brands was on a Sunday from 1967 onwards. Generally though Sundays were still treated as a "day of rest" - Rugby and Football were always Saturdays or midweek and Wimbledon and test matches skipped Sundays. Not sure about golf though - wouldn't the Open have finished on a Sunday?



#22 kartman24

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 16:15

Event was definitely Saturday 6th August, i have scans of the race program sent to me sent by the guy that owned the car at that time, it was a BRSCC run meeting, the race concerned was the unlimited Sports Car race. The car i am interested in is the Fairthorpe Zeta driven by Bob Linwood, he finished third in the 10 lap event behind a Lister Jag driven by G.Lee and a DB3s driven by B.D Hetreed. In his emails to me Bob noted that the event was televised, unfortunately the knowledge of which station it was on went when he passed away a couple of years ago. I am finishing off a rebuild on the car and am putting together as much history as i can, i believe it may have also been raced at Goodwood by a subsequent owner. If someone can help on how i can do it i have a couple of pictures of the car at Brands which i could put up here if anyone wants to see them..........Martin



#23 Sterzo

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 19:01

The law said you couldn't make a general admission charge on a Sunday, but did allow charging for entrance to "special enclosures." Brands designated all the areas with a view of the circuit as a "special enclosure," hence the Sunday meetings. A victory for the Ungodly over The Lord's Day Observance Society.

 

By the mid sixties (according to my dodgy memory) most Brands meetings were on a Sunday, but they still had some on Saturdays.



#24 Alan Baker

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 08:58

There were exceptions to this - the Race of Champions at Brands was on a Sunday from 1967 onwards. Generally though Sundays were still treated as a "day of rest" - Rugby and Football were always Saturdays or midweek and Wimbledon and test matches skipped Sundays. Not sure about golf though - wouldn't the Open have finished on a Sunday?

The Open Championship ended on a Saturday until 1980. Originally it was a three day event with the last two rounds on Saturday!



#25 Vitesse2

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 10:06

Event was definitely Saturday 6th August, i have scans of the race program sent to me sent by the guy that owned the car at that time, it was a BRSCC run meeting, the race concerned was the unlimited Sports Car race. The car i am interested in is the Fairthorpe Zeta driven by Bob Linwood, he finished third in the 10 lap event behind a Lister Jag driven by G.Lee and a DB3s driven by B.D Hetreed. In his emails to me Bob noted that the event was televised, unfortunately the knowledge of which station it was on went when he passed away a couple of years ago...........Martin

Well, I'm afraid his memory must have been mixed with some other meeting. As I posted above, the only televised motor racing on that date was from Silverstone and on ITA. BBC cameras had been at Brands Hatch on August 1st, but the live events on Grandstand on the 6th were rowing - the Serpentine Regatta - swimming - GB Olympic Team v The Rest - and athletics - the Rangers FC Sports meeting.

 

ITA mixed their motor racing from Silverstone with horse racing from Redcar, where they were also trialling an innovation in the form of closed-circuit colour TV.

 

I always bear in mind the title of Duff Cooper's autobiography - Old Men Forget - when dealing with any distant memory. As just one example, in his book Reggie Tongue once suggests that Ivo Peters was running his pit for a race at Cork. This would have been rather difficult, considering that Ivo was also in the race! But that was written more than forty years after the event in question and so I'm certain Reggie had mixed the memory with some other Irish race the previous year ...



#26 john winfield

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 10:37

I'm not sure why they would choose to be at that particular meeting but I wonder if the cameras were those of Movietone or Pathé. I can't find any evidence so far but sometimes they would have a quirky reason for attending smaller events, rather than more obvious top level racing. But it can prove a bit of a challenge finding specific old clips!  



#27 Glengavel

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 06:36

Only televised motor racing on August 6th 1960 was apparently from Silverstone. On ITA - ATV London, Southern, Anglia and Ulster showed motor racing at 1.55, 3.05 and 3.40. ATV Midlands and TWW Wales & West didn't show the 1.55 segment.
 
Info from the Telegraph - London edition, so no details for Granada, Scottish etc.
 
However, I do wonder if 'Silverstone' should actually read 'Snetterton', as that was the date of the Vanwall Trophy F2 meeting!


The rather sparse STV listings in the Glasgow Herald of 1st August are as follows:

1.0 p.m. - Mantovani
1.40 - Scottish News
1.45 - Racing
3.50 - County Cricket
4.15 - Polo
5.0 - Seeing Sport
5.30 - Wild Bill Hickock
5.50 - News
etc.

The listings for STV for 6th August mention:

1.55 - Motor Racing at Silverstone
2.20 - Racing at Redcar
3.5 - Silverstone
3.20 - Redcar
3.40 - Silverstone

#28 Vitesse2

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 07:26

Tackling this from the other direction, BBC Genome tells us that BBC cameras were at Brands Hatch on the following dates in 1960:

 

July 9th

August 1st

August 27th

November 26th - recorded RAC Rally coverage on Sports Special

December 26/27th

 

The relevant issues aren't yet available fully scanned online and apart from the November 26th listing the only data currently available is just a generic Grandstand listing with no details. However, some libraries hold microfiche versions of an older Radio Times archive project which (IIRC) includes scans of all issues up to 1980.



#29 Michael Oliver

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 08:01

OK, problem solved, in terms of which meeting we are talking about at least!

 

The race meeting you are referring to was the BRSCC's meeting at Silverstone on Saturday 6th August. It included the Commander York Trophy, which was 'the' 500cc Formula 3 race, a prestigious event to win, which perhaps explains the presence of TV cameras, although by this stage the 500cc F3 formula had been well and truly superseded by Formula Junior and by all accounts the 1960 race was incredibly uneventful and dull.

 

The meeting report is in Autosport 19th August 1960 p265 and 268, with results which show the winner of the Unlimited Sports Car Race as G. (Gordon) Lee (Lister-Jaguar). Lee won the over 1,500cc class, from B.D. (Brian) Hetreed in an Aston Martin DB3S, with R.G. (Bob) Linwood in third in a Fairthorpe Zeta. Overall, Lee won from John Woolfe (Lola Mk 1) and Dizzy Addicott (Lotus Eleven), both of whom were competing in the under-1,500cc class.

 

According to Vitesse2 in post #4, the meeting was televised by ITA, so worth contacting the ITV archive as suggested by Sterzo in post #8?