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#51 Marklar

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 17:11

now this is what they call scorebord journalism. "She's a rookie and she's at the bottom". No kidding? Btw, the CV's are in the openings post in this topic, not sure what your narration adds...

 

 

You mean: her teammate, who already did a couple of races last year in Spanish F4, and has also done races in FR Eurocup and Euroformula Open is doing better than someone who came from TCR? Shocking!

Not really sure why you are being so defensive about this. Being rookie doesnt mean that you are finishing on default last, so yes, it's not too impressive, as the original poster said. He is not saying she is **** or anything like that. Don't think that this should be a circlejerk about how amazing all drivers are although some of them certainly arent, as in almost every other series. Nobody has any problem to point out how terrible  Raghunathan is for example, but here somehow a last place in the lowest form of European feeder racing should be celebrated?  :confused: 



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#52 statman

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 17:12

Anyone know when they will be annoucing when they will be racing next  year?

 

you can safely follow the newly released DTM calendar for next year. There's some talk about a couple of North American races, but that remains to be seen. Same goes for a possible link-up with F1 in Australia.

 

So at the moment, it's the DTM program.



#53 Marklar

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 17:20

What annoys me is none of the top 12 have a better offer :cry:

With the prize money Chadwick could get a solid seat in one of the F3 series or a seat in a backmarker team in International F3 (if she finds a bit more money on top of that)

It makes sense for her to stay another year though. If she moves now she will both waste her money and probably not score super licence points.

While if she waits another year she will have enough prize money (I assume they still get some in 2020?) to get a reasonable enough International F3 seat and super licence points in 2020 and potentially also in 2021 due to having a competitive drive.

I also dont think that it all necessary means that they didnt had a better offer, you can run more than in one series per season after all (and as others have said it doesnt have to be single seaters). And relatively cheap super licence points (both in terms of invested money and competition) are certainly attractive.


Edited by Marklar, 21 October 2019 - 17:21.


#54 statman

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 17:24

Not really sure why you are being so defensive about this. Being rookie doesnt mean that you are finishing on default last, so yes, it's not too impressive, as the original poster said. He is not saying she is **** or anything like that. Don't think that this should be a circlejerk about how amazing all drivers are although some of them certainly arent, as in almost every other series. Nobody has any problem to point out how terrible  Raghunathan is for example, but here somehow a last place in the lowest form of European feeder racing should be celebrated?  :confused:

 

No, he made a comparison with her teammate and said he is the leader, and I point out that her teammate has experience that she doesn't have.

 

I mean the same guy once said Sophia Flörsch is currently the most talented female driver (maybe he likes her because she dislikes W series). She's currently driving in the disastrous Formula regional with an average of 11/12 drivers on the grid and a lot of $$$ boys. But I guess for her that's an improvement after being at the back in FIA F3. And then he even proclaims Spanish F4 is at the bottom of the list. Hilarious.


Edited by statman, 21 October 2019 - 17:29.


#55 Ben1445

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 17:46

Then let me put it this way: A little more transparency would be great regarding the selection process. The 'below-12th-place-finishers' could indeed re-apply, but if they weren't invited to the test, how did they compare them to the new applicants? I only read a shady comment, something like "the return of [the mentioned drivers] depends on how the newcomers will perform in the test", which can be interpreted in several ways.

Yeah, can't disagree with that. 



#56 messy

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 18:00

I’m not crazy about Chadwick coming back and not sure they should have let it happen, in truth.

Whole point of this series is that it’s a stepping stone to bigger and better things, a feeder series. To be blunt, it’s not good enough to be anything else. The cars are weedy, a lot of the tracks aren’t particularly inspiring, and the standard of competition isn’t amazing. Young girls growing up need to be aspiring to F1, Indycar, DTM, WEC - and using the W Series to help them get there. W Series can’t be seen as a place to stay - if you win it, you move on.

If the champions keep sticking around year after year it misses its whole entire point. And then the question marks about the merits of segregating these women from the mainstream feeder series start to have real merit again.

#57 Ben1445

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 18:03

On the whole I agree, I just think Superlisence points on offer for next year makes things a bit complicated.

Edited by Ben1445, 21 October 2019 - 18:03.


#58 Marklar

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 18:06

No, he made a comparison with her teammate and said he is the leader, and I point out that her teammate has experience that she doesn't have.

 

I mean the same guy once said Sophia Flörsch is currently the most talented female driver (maybe he likes her because she dislikes W series). She's currently driving in the disastrous Formula regional with an average of 11/12 drivers on the grid and a lot of $$$ boys. But I guess for her that's an improvement after being at the back in FIA F3. And then he even proclaims Spanish F4 is at the bottom of the list. Hilarious.

Well, yeah, but still, if your team mate is first and you are last, regardless if you have less experience it certainly isnt "too impressive", that's certainly a far more accurate assesment than "very talented".

As for Flörsch: She didnt had her strongest season, although she still usually was in the mix. And her performances in F4 were solid enough. Certainly a better CV than most of the W Series field, although I'm not sure if I would agree on her being the most talented female driver (anymore). I rated her highly a few years ago, but she didnt lived up to the hype and Chadwick has looked more impressive than her in the last couple of years.



#59 Ben1445

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 18:16

As for Flörsch: She didnt had her strongest season, although she still usually was in the mix. And her performances in F4 were solid enough. Certainly a better CV than most of the W Series field, although I'm not sure if I would agree on her being the most talented female driver (anymore). I rated her highly a few years ago, but she didnt lived up to the hype and Chadwick has looked more impressive than her in the last couple of years.

I've been largely unimpressed with Van Amersfoort as a team the last few years tbh. They've definitely not been a Prema.

 

Edit: The team effect is an interesting point in most junior series and should never ignored. It's what makes the W Series set up of not only equal cars but rotating chassis and engineering personnel so interesting to me. 


Edited by Ben1445, 21 October 2019 - 18:19.


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#60 ArcticRacing

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 18:18

Ther is an interesting information given by telegraph co uk :

 

The Danish driver Michelle Gatting, stood out during testing for recording superior lap times to last year's runner-up Visser

Now I'm curious... Is it the only info on the web about the testing lap time ?


Edited by ArcticRacing, 21 October 2019 - 18:25.


#61 Ben1445

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 20:53

Word from Jamie Chadwick. 'Further 2020 plans' sounds encouraging. 

 

Screenshot-2019-10-21-at-21-47-04.png

 

(Also a subtle note that James Barclay, Jaguar FE principle, 'liked' it. Could be telling. Could be completely unrelated. Who knows!)



#62 Bloggsworth

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 21:53

I’m not crazy about Chadwick coming back and not sure they should have let it happen, in truth.

Whole point of this series is that it’s a stepping stone to bigger and better things, a feeder series. To be blunt, it’s not good enough to be anything else. The cars are weedy, a lot of the tracks aren’t particularly inspiring, and the standard of competition isn’t amazing. Young girls growing up need to be aspiring to F1, Indycar, DTM, WEC - and using the W Series to help them get there. W Series can’t be seen as a place to stay - if you win it, you move on.

If the champions keep sticking around year after year it misses its whole entire point. And then the question marks about the merits of segregating these women from the mainstream feeder series start to have real merit again.

 

I don't suppose she is either - The major failing of the series was not to offer a top-class seat in F3 on the World Championship tour, it made the whole process lead to a broken light-bulb at the end of the tunnel; when she arrived she was still in the dark about her future, which appears to be a case of "Back to the..."



#63 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 22 October 2019 - 00:06

She's several hundred thousand better off though. If she's really astute she'd just pocket the money. 



#64 Starchild

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Posted 22 October 2019 - 10:07

now this is what they call scorebord journalism. "She's a rookie and she's at the bottom". No kidding? Btw, the CV's are in the openings post in this topic, not sure what your narration adds...

Just wanted to add a bit more info about them, and my opinion what I expect from each, that's all. Don't get why you've got triggered, calm down...

 

 

You mean: her teammate, who already did a couple of races last year in Spanish F4, and has also done races in FR Eurocup and Euroformula Open is doing better than someone who came from TCR? Shocking!

 

Her team mate did just last round of spanish f4 last year, just like she did last round of smpf4 last year. He did few races of FR and EO this year, but she also did a whole season of SMP F4 this year parallel with spanish f4. So, it's not true he is more experienced. They are basically equal in terms of experience. But it wasn't even my point to compare her with her team-mate. I just asked on what basis you consider her to be a 'great talent', when she is last in a not very strong, entry level championship while being in a good team/car capable of winnning races... And just don't say she is a rookie because almost all drivers on that grid are rookies...


Edited by Starchild, 22 October 2019 - 10:24.


#65 Starchild

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Posted 22 October 2019 - 10:22

I mean the same guy once said Sophia Flörsch is currently the most talented female driver (maybe he likes her because she dislikes W series). She's currently driving in the disastrous Formula regional with an average of 11/12 drivers on the grid and a lot of $$$ boys. But I guess for her that's an improvement after being at the back in FIA F3. And then he even proclaims Spanish F4 is at the bottom of the list. Hilarious.

Yes i did. What's wrong with that statement? She clearly is most talented young female driver right now. Unfortunatelly she doesn't want to race in W Series, which I think is a huge mistake. Even if she doesn't agree with idea of separating famale drivers, she should just go there, collect that price money and use it to find a good seat in F3.



#66 Retrofly

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Posted 22 October 2019 - 10:45

At what point do we stop going around in circles about "What s W series actually for" and actually just start talking about the series itself, the drivers and racing.

 

Seems like some endless circle of "W series a platform for women", "w series should be a stepping stone", "w series is just about exposure" etc

 

Maybe it needs a separate thread for it IDK.



#67 Burai

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Posted 22 October 2019 - 11:03

On the whole I agree, I just think Superlisence points on offer for next year makes things a bit complicated.

 

Exactly. Red Bull's struggles getting new juniors into Toro Rosso is proof that Superlicence points are just as valuable, if not more valuable, than the cash prize.

 

I'd also say that Chadwick is taking quite a risk having another go. There's no guarantee she'll win two on the bounce. By the end of last season Kimilainen and Powell both had the measure of her, Visser was right with her and Garcia was showing flashes of brilliance. Chadwick could easily get swallowed up and spat out.



#68 E1pix

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Posted 22 October 2019 - 15:02

It'll be interesting to see how some of the returning drivers do now that they know the tracks.

#69 MalcolmC

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Posted 22 October 2019 - 23:53

Exactly. Red Bull's struggles getting new juniors into Toro Rosso is proof that Superlicence points are just as valuable, if not more valuable, than the cash prize.

 

I'd also say that Chadwick is taking quite a risk having another go. There's no guarantee she'll win two on the bounce. By the end of last season Kimilainen and Powell both had the measure of her, Visser was right with her and Garcia was showing flashes of brilliance. Chadwick could easily get swallowed up and spat out.

 

True, she may not win the championship next year - but she might get 'spat out' with more experience driving single seaters, more prize money and maybe even a few Superlicence points. I'd say it's a 'no-brainer' for her to have another go - and keep on having a go in successive years if they'll let her.

 

Just to put it into perspective the US$0.5M that she won this year is more than Alex Albon's & Lando Norris' combined salaries.

 

I'm not sure what Jenson Button is getting paid for his Super GT work in Japan, but could Jamie be the second highest paid British racing driver this year?


Edited by MalcolmC, 23 October 2019 - 00:05.


#70 FLB

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Posted 23 October 2019 - 00:18

 

I'd also say that Chadwick is taking quite a risk having another go. There's no guarantee she'll win two on the bounce. By the end of last season Kimilainen and Powell both had the measure of her, Visser was right with her and Garcia was showing flashes of brilliance. Chadwick could easily get swallowed up and spat out.

Fabienne Wohlwend is another one who showed flashes of brilliance, especially for someone who was having her first season in an open wheel car.



#71 Burai

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Posted 23 October 2019 - 08:35

True, she may not win the championship next year - but she might get 'spat out' with more experience driving single seaters, more prize money and maybe even a few Superlicence points. I'd say it's a 'no-brainer' for her to have another go - and keep on having a go in successive years if they'll let her.

 

Just to put it into perspective the US$0.5M that she won this year is more than Alex Albon's & Lando Norris' combined salaries.

 

I'm not sure what Jenson Button is getting paid for his Super GT work in Japan, but could Jamie be the second highest paid British racing driver this year?

 

That grossly misunderstands the prize money paid out by W Series though. It's not a salary; nobody gets to take the money home with them. That money is invested, by W Series, into future racing activities for that driver.



#72 Ben1445

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Posted 23 October 2019 - 08:41

Also forgets a few drivers out there I think. Formula E’s top driver salaries are reportedly now €1-1.5m, and Sam Bird is third in the overall win list with 5 year tenure. He could realistically be on a roughly 500k salary or perhaps more.

I don’t know, though. And realistically without full transparency it will remain that way.

#73 MrAerodynamicist

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Posted 23 October 2019 - 10:40

Has it actually been confirmed anywhere how it's paid? While it's always talked about as being for investing activities n Futher Motorsport I haven't seen anything to suggest it's not a do-as-you-please cheque.

#74 ElectricBoogie

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Posted 23 October 2019 - 12:13

Are superlicence points even a real factor to consider? If you can't get a  decent F3 drive on talent or funding, is there is reason to expect you're going to be only a few SL points away from an F1 drive?
If you're really that good or marketing friendly, and will rack up SL points like a successful boy racer, how much will the points from 2020 WS matter?

Sure, in the mind of the racer, she's on her way to F1. Just like I was once training to maybe be an Olympian in a very competitive sport.
But does WS matter on your inevitable way to the very top? I bet that if you can get your expenses covered for a (formal) season of any racing, that trumps any magic beans on offer.



#75 Marklar

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Posted 23 October 2019 - 12:19

Are superlicence points even a real factor to consider? If you can't get a  decent F3 drive on talent or funding, is there is reason to expect you're going to be only a few SL points away from an F1 drive?
If you're really that good or marketing friendly, and will rack up SL points like a successful boy racer, how much will the points from 2020 WS matter?

Sure, in the mind of the racer, she's on her way to F1. Just like I was once training to maybe be an Olympian in a very competitive sport.
But does WS matter on your inevitable way to the very top? I bet that if you can get your expenses covered for a (formal) season of any racing, that trumps any magic beans on offer.

Well, regardless how talented you are you wont score many super licence points in F3 if you dont have money, since there are big differences between the best and worst teams (you basically need a Prema in F3 to have a chance). So gaining super licence points and money in WSeries to then spend the prize money you gained on a good F3 drive to then maybe score even more super licence points seems like a good match plan.

Whether this will work is a different matter, though.



#76 Sterzo

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Posted 23 October 2019 - 13:16

Has it actually been confirmed anywhere how it's paid? While it's always talked about as being for investing activities n Futher Motorsport I haven't seen anything to suggest it's not a do-as-you-please cheque.

That's true. She did smile at me in the paddock once; I might ask her to marry me.



#77 ArcticRacing

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Posted 23 October 2019 - 13:19

Fabienne Wohlwend is another one who showed flashes of brilliance, especially for someone who was having her first season in an open wheel car.

She was in F4 some years ago ;)



#78 MalcolmC

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Posted 23 October 2019 - 19:38

That grossly misunderstands the prize money paid out by W Series though. It's not a salary; nobody gets to take the money home with them. That money is invested, by W Series, into future racing activities for that driver.

Well that's even better. If she doesn't have to pay tax it's like she's been paid US$0.9M. That puts her about 15th on the F1 Grid.  :)



#79 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 24 October 2019 - 00:24

Id love to see a leaked W Series contract just to see what the drivers have to give up on future earnings or what input/involvement W Series continues to have in their career.

 

That's not to throw shade at W Series(which it does deserve), I've heard that about several 'young driver programs'.



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#80 Marklar

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Posted 26 October 2019 - 07:42

From an article that talks about Netflix causing an increase of female audience at the Mexican GP

There has been talk of having a round of the all-female W Series on the Mexican Grand Prix support program in future, paired with the U.S. round in Texas, and Soberon [Mexican GP Promoter] said any proposal would certainly be considered.

https://mobile.reute...p/idUSKBN1X42E0

#81 PayasYouRace

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Posted 26 October 2019 - 08:17

You mean the Mexico City Grand Prix support programme.  :rolleyes:

 

(Rolleyes aimed at promoter)



#82 statman

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Posted 28 October 2019 - 16:06

fwiw, Tomaselli is a solid mid-fielder in 2019 USF2000.

 

since this topic was opened, the season has finished. Her profile in the openings post can be updated:

 

Bruna Tomaselli, Brazil
21 years old
* 2013: 7th in Formula Junior Brazil
* 2014: 4th in Formula Junior Brazil
* 2015: 6th in Formula 4 South America
* 2016: 4th in Formula 4 South America
* 2018: 16th in USF2000 Championship
* 2019: 8th in USF2000 Championship

Edited by statman, 28 October 2019 - 16:12.


#83 Marklar

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Posted 30 October 2019 - 12:18

2020 W Series champion won't be allowed back in 2021 (due to the rules for the Superlicence)

https://www.motorspo...adwick/4589387/



#84 Ben1445

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Posted 30 October 2019 - 12:27

And there we go. Everyone can rest easy now...

#85 Beri

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Posted 30 October 2019 - 15:44

Sorry if asked earlier, but why is Katherine Legge participating? It is a bit strange considering the W Series being a feeder series and she already having raced at the highest level. Or am I narrow minded or missing some News that the W Series has changed its reason to why it was conceived?

#86 pacificquay

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Posted 30 October 2019 - 16:03

Sorry if asked earlier, but why is Katherine Legge participating? It is a bit strange considering the W Series being a feeder series and she already having raced at the highest level. Or am I narrow minded or missing some News that the W Series has changed its reason to why it was conceived?

She isn’t.



#87 Bloggsworth

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Posted 30 October 2019 - 16:22

2020 W Series champion won't be allowed back in 2021 (due to the rules for the Superlicence)

https://www.motorspo...adwick/4589387/

 

Seems a bit unfair that the winner of the inaugural series won't get a Superlicence, but the following winner will - Wasted year for Chadwick.



#88 Beri

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Posted 30 October 2019 - 16:53

She isn’t.


She tested recently and was announced in the Topic opening..? I'm confused now? Or did I miss something?

#89 pacificquay

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Posted 30 October 2019 - 17:02

She tested recently and was announced in the Topic opening..? I'm confused now? Or did I miss something?

she tested, but she is not competing in it



#90 BRG

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Posted 30 October 2019 - 17:06

Wasted year for Chadwick.

She got the cash prize, which was all that was on offer when she originally signed up.  And there is more to (motor-racing) life than Super-licence points.



#91 boomn

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Posted 30 October 2019 - 17:06

Seems a bit unfair that the winner of the inaugural series won't get a Superlicence, but the following winner will - Wasted year for Chadwick.

FWIW the winner won't get a super license, they will get 12-18 points towards the 40 needed for a super license.  The FIA hasn't made a final decision on points award yet, but this will be the same as for winning either an F4 (12 points) or F3 (18) championship

 

Sure, its a bit unfair for Jamie but its also understandable given the nature of a brand new series trying to prove itself



#92 JavierDeVivre

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Posted 30 October 2019 - 17:30

2020 W Series champion won't be allowed back in 2021 (due to the rules for the Superlicence)

https://www.motorspo...adwick/4589387/

I really don't see why she shouldn't be.

The are many factors that go into getting a drive in F3 series and above, money alone does not guarantee a seat in a higher specification series.

I don't agree with barring the champion of any series from competing again, unless there is a guaranteed step up to the next level.

That being said, I do think there should be a reasonable cut off point, so to clear up the opportunities for others, not a single season though.

Edited by JavierDeVivre, 30 October 2019 - 17:31.


#93 JavierDeVivre

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Posted 30 October 2019 - 17:32

Sorry if asked earlier, but why is Katherine Legge participating? It is a bit strange considering the W Series being a feeder series and she already having raced at the highest level. Or am I narrow minded or missing some News that the W Series has changed its reason to why it was conceived?

W isn't a feeder series.

#94 JavierDeVivre

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Posted 30 October 2019 - 17:35

She got the cash prize, which was all that was on offer when she originally signed up. And there is more to (motor-racing) life than Super-licence points.

Arguably the money is far more important, since superlicence points aren't relevant until F1. Most participants are multiple levels away from F1 when they take part in W.

#95 Rob29

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Posted 30 October 2019 - 18:03

W isn't a feeder series.

What is a' feeder'  series?This may be an american term as in Road to Indy'  As    I understand itKatherine hasabetterofferanyway :clap:



#96 jonpollak

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Posted 30 October 2019 - 18:08

I heard the organizers asked Kat to give feedback on the car and wanted an experienced opinion with a view to chassis development.

Jp

#97 PayasYouRace

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Posted 30 October 2019 - 18:10

W isn't a feeder series.

 

I'd say it definitely is. Its entire existence is to propel its drivers on to better, higher profile series.



#98 MalcolmC

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Posted 30 October 2019 - 20:03

I'm not sure kicking out the champion is the right thing. It could mean a 'race for second in the championship' scenario at the last round. I can easily imagine a situation where two drivers are close on points at the top of the championship - both wanting to return the following year (as the Top-12 rule guarantees) - so they spend the last race trying to finish behind each other, while avoiding whoever is 3rd in the championship overtaking them. It could be more farcical than F1 Q3 at Monza.


Edited by MalcolmC, 30 October 2019 - 20:03.


#99 Kalmake

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Posted 30 October 2019 - 20:18

I'm not sure kicking out the champion is the right thing. It could mean a 'race for second in the championship' scenario at the last round. I can easily imagine a situation where two drivers are close on points at the top of the championship - both wanting to return the following year (as the Top-12 rule guarantees) - so they spend the last race trying to finish behind each other, while avoiding whoever is 3rd in the championship overtaking them. It could be more farcical than F1 Q3 at Monza.

First earns $250k more than second. Better take it when you can.



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#100 boomn

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Posted 30 October 2019 - 20:24

I'm not sure kicking out the champion is the right thing. It could mean a 'race for second in the championship' scenario at the last round. I can easily imagine a situation where two drivers are close on points at the top of the championship - both wanting to return the following year (as the Top-12 rule guarantees) - so they spend the last race trying to finish behind each other, while avoiding whoever is 3rd in the championship overtaking them. It could be more farcical than F1 Q3 at Monza.

Isn't this the standard rule that every "junior" series earning FIA super license points has to follow?  I haven't heard of graduation rules causing issues in other series