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Was Vettel right to ignore TOs in Russia 2019?


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Poll: Russia GP Ferrari TOs (421 member(s) have cast votes)

Was Vettel right to ignore team orders

  1. Yes (211 votes [50.12%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 50.12%

  2. No (134 votes [31.83%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 31.83%

  3. Don’t know/depends/it’s more complicated than that (76 votes [18.05%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 18.05%

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#801 shure

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Posted 07 October 2019 - 09:08

It is true to say that if Vettel was faster because he was in a more aggressive engine mode, because he wasn't managing his temps, or because he was deploying in one long burst all he way down to turn 2 and letting the turbulence protect him through sector 3, he may very well have contributed to the failure, especially if stopping the car when it was already running very hot.

It was an insulation failure which led to his retirement.  That's not down to his driving.

 

And any driver using unauthorised engine modes during a race would have the engineers shouting down the mic pretty damn quick.  It's pure fantasy to blame Vettel's failure on this



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#802 1Devil1

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Posted 07 October 2019 - 09:44

What is with this forum and fake facts? Nothing, really nothing suggest Vettel used higher engine modes. Ferrari would be mad, you would have heard his engineer. But you still have people claim that BS.


Edited by 1Devil1, 07 October 2019 - 09:49.


#803 shure

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Posted 07 October 2019 - 09:48

What with this forum an fake facts? Nothing, really nothing suggest Vettel used higher engine modes. Ferrari would be mad, you would have heard his engineer. But you still have people claim that BS.

because it's easier to blame the driver, particularly one you don't like, than it is to bother checking facts



#804 thefinalapex

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Posted 07 October 2019 - 10:24

What is with this forum and fake facts? Nothing, really nothing suggest Vettel used higher engine modes. Ferrari would be mad, you would have heard his engineer. But you still have people claim that BS.


If we would take their logic its also leclerc fault for his engine problem in bahrain? Or Lewis in sepang in 2016? Sometimes i think our old friend hermann is still on this forum with different accounts😂

#805 CSF

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Posted 07 October 2019 - 11:37

If we would take their logic its also leclerc fault for his engine problem in bahrain? Or Lewis in sepang in 2016? Sometimes i think our old friend hermann is still on this forum with different accounts

 

I personally believe Charles and Lewis were foiled by conspiracy within their team in those instances. Forces we can't see, denying the god given right of those individuals. Illuminati if you will.

 

 

Vettel clearly got Leclerc's engine in Russia. We see you Illuminati, we see you.  :mad:



#806 robefc

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Posted 07 October 2019 - 15:21

What is with this forum and fake facts? Nothing, really nothing suggest Vettel used higher engine modes. Ferrari would be mad, you would have heard his engineer. But you still have people claim that BS.

 

Forum's just fitting in with the world at large sadly!



#807 Mauseri

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Posted 07 October 2019 - 19:33

It was an insulation failure which led to his retirement. That's not down to his driving.

Insulation failure sounds like overheating issue, using too many modes, just like Charles in Bahrain.

More seriously, timing of the episodes make it appear like someone inside Ferrari is arranging race results - at the cost of the team.

#808 shure

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Posted 07 October 2019 - 19:57

Insulation failure sounds like overheating issue, using too many modes, just like Charles in Bahrain.

More seriously, timing of the episodes make it appear like someone inside Ferrari is arranging race results - at the cost of the team.

No, it really doesn't.  We've had the full transcripts from Ferrari after the race and if Vettel had been engaging higher engine modes than he should have there would have been several messages about it, but there wasn't a single one.  And if he wasn't using a higher mode than he should have been, then he can't take the blame for overheating an engine that was supposedly being operated within correct parameters.

 

It was an electrical failure on the hybrid side, not a result of an overstressed ICE.  It's pretty laughable that some would try to pin the blame for that on the driver



#809 Lights

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Posted 10 October 2019 - 13:12

Vettel admits team orders defiance was "not right"

https://www.motorspo...errari/4555544/

"What agreement there was or wasn't, or who is right and who isn't, is perhaps not so important.

"But of course I got the message at the radio to change the place, and did not do it. And that was certainly not right."

Edited by Lights, 10 October 2019 - 13:13.


#810 7MGTEsup

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Posted 10 October 2019 - 13:45

Vettel admits team orders defiance was "not right"

https://www.motorspo...errari/4555544/

"What agreement there was or wasn't, or who is right and who isn't, is perhaps not so important.

"But of course I got the message at the radio to change the place, and did not do it. And that was certainly not right."

 

Sounds like he just came out the headmasters office..... I doubt he believes that for a second.



#811 kosmos

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Posted 10 October 2019 - 13:49

I think it was obvious he didn't obey the orders or honor the pre-race agreement. Funny how he is adamant to say they had an agreement when is so blatantly obvious


Edited by kosmos, 10 October 2019 - 15:10.


#812 Requiem84

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Posted 10 October 2019 - 15:26

There are 16 pages with arguments here from very vocal people that Vettel was doing the right thing.

 

But apparently Vettel himself now thinks it was not right what he did

 

Interesting. 



#813 Marklar

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Posted 10 October 2019 - 15:29

There are 16 pages with arguments here from very vocal people that Vettel was doing the right thing.

 

But apparently Vettel himself now thinks it was not right what he did

 

Interesting. 

He was smiling throughout those interviews. Clearly Binotto told him off when they met earlier this week and he has been forced to backpedal in public.

I'm 100 % sure he thinks that he did the right thing, even if not morally.



#814 Requiem84

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Posted 10 October 2019 - 15:31

He was smiling throughout those interviews. Clearly Binotto told him off when they met earlier this week and he has been forced to backpedal in public.

I'm 100 % sure he thinks that he did the right thing, even if not morally.

 

It doesn't really make sense for Binotto to let Vettel eat humble pie. It would have made much more sense to keep up the story that there was some confusion / unclarity, like the PR spin was after the race. 



#815 Marklar

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Posted 10 October 2019 - 17:12

It doesn't really make sense for Binotto to let Vettel eat humble pie. It would have made much more sense to keep up the story that there was some confusion / unclarity, like the PR spin was after the race. 

In Monza, which was far less obvious in intention, Binotto was happy to call Leclerc out on it. If you want to demonstrate that the team is bigger than the drivers it makes total sense



#816 Clrnc

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Posted 10 October 2019 - 17:38

There was obviously no debate for most of us, Vettel was wrong clearly. He now admits it, case closed we move on. Hope Ferrari can challenge Mercedes this weekend in a smart way



#817 Requiem84

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Posted 10 October 2019 - 18:13

In Monza, which was far less obvious in intention, Binotto was happy to call Leclerc out on it. If you want to demonstrate that the team is bigger than the drivers it makes total sense


In Monza, Binotto called Leclerc out on it directly during the weekend.

Right after the Sochi race Binotto said this:

We initially asked Seb to give the position back, but fair enough to say at that stage of the race maybe Charles was not close enough, and we would have lost some time on track. Later on Seb was quite fast and gained some track advantage on Charles."


Basically covering up for Vettel.

Why would Binotto change his tune so drastically 2 weeks later.

#818 TurnOffTheLights

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Posted 10 October 2019 - 20:43

Why? Because one was PR talk right after the race and the other face-to-face communication. And it doesn't have to be as black or white as some of you want it to be, it could have easily been something like “Seb, you were right, switching positions that early made no sense. However, you can not overrule the team's decision, you have to follow our orders“

#819 baddog

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 02:54

Sure he is very sorry about that. Will definitely not do that again. lol.