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Robert Kubica in F1 - what's next


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#51 AndyPerry

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Posted 08 October 2019 - 16:17

So you ignore the facts and official statements to do some reading between the lines so it fits your opinion xD Nice one pdac, nice one.

Not this thread really. Some ppl think Kubica is ridiculously slow, some think the cars aren't equal. This was the conversation we had in Williams thread. Go there if you cannot leave it behind. Maybe you'll still find someone willing to repeat this over and over again. Cheers.


1. You can't create a thread and expect people are going to write what you wish they would. As long as it's not insulting, it's their opinion and they're entitled to it.
2. You seriously can not expect people with vast experience in following F1 not to call what Russell's been doing to Kubica this season a complete and utter whitewash.

If you don't follow this advice, this thread is going to give you headaches, just like the Williams one does.

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#52 MaGiK

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Posted 08 October 2019 - 16:58

Yeah i watched that interview and IMO it sounded a bit different than its portrayed.
For example quote :
"PB: But if he doesn't race in F1...
DO: But did I say he won't be racing?"

Actually interviewer said "but if he doesnt race...(long pause)" And Obajtek started answering before interviewer added "in F1"

Its looking like Robert will be racing in other series (DTM?) with F1 third/development driver role (with few FP1s).

#53 CSF

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Posted 08 October 2019 - 17:28

Yeah i watched that interview and IMO it sounded a bit different than its portrayed.
For example quote :
"PB: But if he doesn't race in F1...
DO: But did I say he won't be racing?"

Actually interviewer said "but if he doesnt race...(long pause)" And Obajtek started answering before interviewer added "in F1"

Its looking like Robert will be racing in other series (DTM?) with F1 third/development driver role (with few FP1s).

 

 

Which IMO sounds like a big win for Robert, and I would say is a good thing in general.



#54 PayasYouRace

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Posted 08 October 2019 - 17:48

If Lewis is vegan I don't think he's allowed to eat dogshi- oh you're not talking about the movie.

 

I was talking about this level:

 



#55 pdac

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Posted 08 October 2019 - 18:58

Yeah i watched that interview and IMO it sounded a bit different than its portrayed.
For example quote :
"PB: But if he doesn't race in F1...
DO: But did I say he won't be racing?"

Actually interviewer said "but if he doesnt race...(long pause)" And Obajtek started answering before interviewer added "in F1"

Its looking like Robert will be racing in other series (DTM?) with F1 third/development driver role (with few FP1s).

 

But what does this say, then, when Obajtek mentioned that you don't go into F1 for just one year? Does it mean Orlen will be putting more money into F1 or does it mean that, actually, you do go into F1 for one year (but you don't achieve what you wanted to, so you've wasted your money)?



#56 absinthedude

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Posted 08 October 2019 - 18:59

Williams is not for sale, and never will be. Someone with the surname "Wiliams" will eventually shut the garage doors and close the team down. That's been clear since 1969. 

 

As for Orlen, I assume that RK is very popular in Poland and I've heard that it's helped their brand there. As I understand it, and my knowledge is limited, Orlen is an oil refining company who also have petrol stations....Eastern and Central Europe locations...nothing in France, Spain or Britain as far as I know. Maybe they're looking to expand?

 

Whether you think Robert has done a good job in the Williams or not....his return has certainly given Orlen a lot of publicity. Maybe $20m worth.  But I can't see him in an F1 race seat next year. I can see him being development/reserve driver for Haas possibly...alongside a racing programme outside F1. 



#57 MrMonaco

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Posted 08 October 2019 - 19:03

Just to put some context for this interview - on Sunday there are major elections in Poland.

#58 messy

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Posted 08 October 2019 - 19:09

Ultimately, Kubica was out of his depth and won’t race in F1 again beyond this year. That’s something I don’t think anybody aside from his most fervent supporters wouldn’t accept. A nice test and reserve role with his pals at Racing Point and a DTM drive though....

I’m sad how it’s gone. I’m sad that he was so uncompetitive and even more sad at how bitter such a feelgood story has turned out.

#59 danmills

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Posted 08 October 2019 - 19:14

Buying into Haas?

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#60 BRG

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Posted 08 October 2019 - 19:25

Just to put some context for this interview - on Sunday there are major elections in Poland.

Contextually speaking, how is that even slightly relevant to Robert Kubica's future?  Unless he is standing for election?



#61 MrMonaco

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Posted 08 October 2019 - 19:39

Contextually speaking, how is that even slightly relevant to Robert Kubica's future? Unless he is standing for election?

I am referring to timing of the interview posted by the OP. Obajtek is the CEO of a company that is partially state-owned. His position was nominated through political process and he will be eventually replaced in the same manner.

Edited by MrMonaco, 08 October 2019 - 19:41.


#62 BRG

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Posted 08 October 2019 - 19:47

Are you suggesting that the Polish electorate will place their votes according to whether Orlen sponsors Kubica in F1 or not?  Seems a bit of a stretch..



#63 MaGiK

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Posted 08 October 2019 - 20:39

But what does this say, then, when Obajtek mentioned that you don't go into F1 for just one year? Does it mean Orlen will be putting more money into F1 or does it mean that, actually, you do go into F1 for one year (but you don't achieve what you wanted to, so you've wasted your money)?

It means Orlen will stay in F1 (with team where RK will be 3rd driver).

#64 Paco

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Posted 08 October 2019 - 20:46

There’s no such thing as a third driver, that implies swapping drivers between races. There is a reserve role but no 3rd driver in F1. Again, that’s very very misleading, reserves are simply in the event a driver is unable to compete for physical reason etc ie illness, a reserve can step in for that event. It’s not a driver role. He would probably fill the reserve role decently considering but the odds of actually getting a race in is next to nil and zero performance expectation also a result.

I don’t get why Kubica content threads always get derailed.

Edited by Paco, 08 October 2019 - 20:50.


#65 NoForumForOldPole

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Posted 08 October 2019 - 21:47

The perfect role for Bob would be to work behind the scene as simulator/developmemt driver. He missed out the role with Ferrari to pursue (not so) dream come back, in hindsight it was missed oportunity.

Next year, maybe test driver/Stroll's coach at Racing India or possible some role at Haas if they struggle for dollars.

Outside F1: DTM was mentioned, Orlen might want to promote there as they own Petrol Stations in Germany.

Complete shot in the dark: Back in WRC ;)

Edited by NoForumForOldPole, 08 October 2019 - 21:48.


#66 boomn

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Posted 08 October 2019 - 22:11

Are you suggesting that the Polish electorate will place their votes according to whether Orlen sponsors Kubica in F1 or not?  Seems a bit of a stretch..

It's not uncommon for big sponsorship deals to go away simple because a new leader isn't a racing fan and/or doesn't see the return from race sponsorship.  I'm guessing that is the implication here



#67 MaGiK

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 07:50

There’s no such thing as a third driver, that implies swapping drivers between races. There is a reserve role but no 3rd driver in F1. Again, that’s very very misleading, reserves are simply in the event a driver is unable to compete for physical reason etc ie illness, a reserve can step in for that event. It’s not a driver role.

 

Of course there is an 3rd driver role in F1.

Its just a synonym for reserve driver.

It might be misleading/confusing for you, but it doesnt change the fact that this term is correct and is sometimes used by F1 media/teams.



#68 Krr

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 09:23

Just to put some context for this interview - on Sunday there are major elections in Poland.

 

 

I am referring to timing of the interview posted by the OP. Obajtek is the CEO of a company that is partially state-owned. His position was nominated through political process and he will be eventually replaced in the same manner.

 

I think you read it wrong way. Obvioulsy there is an political angle there with Orlen, but the feeling is that if there would be something to announce regarding them and futher investement in F1 and Robert, they would surely wait after the election is done. Depsite what CEO is saying, Poland is rather big country, and there is huge amount of people having no idea how this sponsorship/investement works, and for them it is "Orlen paying for Kubica fun from their money". In a word, saying anything more now would make more damage then benefits for current goverment election wise as the opposition would be on them immediatetely.

 

There is no "timing" in my opinion other then just Obajtek happens to get involved in an interview with an independant buissiness entity on some economic forum, where the guy pushed him a bit about Kubica, but he did not say nothing that new really.

 

Anyway current authorities (unfortunately ffs) have this election already in their pocket so there is no danger for changes in Orlen board.

 

Are you suggesting that the Polish electorate will place their votes according to whether Orlen sponsors Kubica in F1 or not?  Seems a bit of a stretch..

 

Well, that would be another level of being "a fun"  :drunk:


Edited by Krr, 09 October 2019 - 09:33.


#69 CoolBreeze

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 09:32

I don't see him in F1 anymore. he's pretty much done. 



#70 Muppetmad

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 09:37

Test/reserve/development/whatever driver for Racing Point with a racing gig in DTM or elsewhere certainly seems the most likely state of affairs.



#71 Krr

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 09:40

Test/reserve/development/whatever driver for Racing Point Haas with a racing gig in DTM or elsewhere certainly seems the most likely state of affairs.

Corrected this for you  :)



#72 Paco

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 11:12

Of course there is an 3rd driver role in F1.
Its just a synonym for reserve driver.
It might be misleading/confusing for you, but it doesnt change the fact that this term is correct and is sometimes used by F1 media/teams.

A 3rd Driver means you ARE driving... reserve means just that.. pretending by saying he may be 3rd driver is just baiting... reserve driver fine but that’s a pretty meaningless role and more a marketing thing..few have ever been able to take advantage and if you jump all of a sudden dang near impossible to do a respectable job let alone go well.

Edited by Paco, 09 October 2019 - 11:14.


#73 Krr

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 11:18

few have ever been able to take advantage and if you jump all of a sudden dang near impossible to do a respectable job let alone go well.

Well, funny enough, Kubica proved that in 2006 with 7th on his debut on Hungary and first podium on Monza in his 3rd ever race, right?  :wave:



#74 AndyPerry

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 11:19

Well, funny enough, Kubica proved that in 2006 with 7th on his debut on Hungary and first podium on Monza in his 3rd ever race, right?  :wave:

 


Not the same Kubica, Krr.

#75 Clatter

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 11:32

Well, funny enough, Kubica proved that in 2006 with 7th on his debut on Hungary and first podium on Monza in his 3rd ever race, right? :wave:

Back in 2006 testing was still allowed and the test driver could get quite a bit of seat time. So really not comparable to a test driver of today. Regardless, what happened in 2006 is irrelevant, its what happens now that counts.

#76 Marklar

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 12:18

A 3rd Driver means you ARE driving...

well, that's your spin on it, not what the rest of the world thinks.

Weird thing to get upset about, btw.

#77 MaGiK

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 12:42

A 3rd Driver means you ARE driving... reserve means just that.. pretending by saying he may be 3rd driver is just baiting... .

 

Well...youre just plain wrong there m8.

Just few examples for you :

 

"Ocon to be Mercedes reserve and third driver for 2019" - F1.com

https://www.formula1...gSsO4OoC88.html

 

"Esteban went into the 2016 season doubly committed – on the one hand as third driver in the Renault Sport F1 Team and on the other as a front-line member of the Mercedes-AMG DTM Team." - Mercedes AMG F1 Team

https://www.mercedes...esteban-ocon-2/



#78 absinthedude

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 12:45

Everyone except one poster, known to us all, understands perfectly well what "third driver" means. It is a commonly used phrase meant to refer to the team's test/reserve driver.



#79 Paco

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 13:10

Back in 2006 testing was still allowed and the test driver could get quite a bit of seat time. So really not comparable to a test driver of today. Regardless, what happened in 2006 is irrelevant, its what happens now that counts.


Thanks for beating me to posting how the role has changed dramatically and next year. Add in the fact they are reducing preseason testing even further...

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#80 Paco

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 13:12

Well...youre just plain wrong there m8.
Just few examples for you :

"Ocon to be Mercedes reserve and third driver for 2019" - F1.com
https://www.formula1...gSsO4OoC88.html

"Esteban went into the 2016 season doubly committed – on the one hand as third driver in the Renault Sport F1 Team and on the other as a front-line member of the Mercedes-AMG DTM Team." - Mercedes AMG F1 Team
https://www.mercedes...esteban-ocon-2/

And how often they race... feel free to buy into the marketing hype but that’s it is in current era. If it makes youbhappy seeing him hang around a put garage yearning for a race day should their drivers fall ill or injury then good on you but I don’t. Was weird seeing Ocon all year just hanging around hoping to cherry pick a season debut. At least marcus was racing elsewhere and got called and still didn’t race..

Edited by Paco, 09 October 2019 - 13:14.


#81 MaGiK

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 13:30

And how often they race... feel free to buy into the marketing hype but that’s it is in current era. If it makes youbhappy seeing him hang around a put garage yearning for a race day should their drivers fall ill or injury then good on you but I don’t. Was weird seeing Ocon all year just hanging around hoping to cherry pick a season debut. At least marcus was racing elsewhere and got called and still didn’t race..

And whos arguing that the are often racing?
Theres a reason why theyre called third drivers and not racing drivers...gosh.
You claimed that theres not such a thing as third driver role in F1...a claim that was proved wrong and now youre just trying to twist reasoning...
And BTW im pretty sure Robert wont be just hanging arround garage.
Latifi has few tests and 6 FP1 outings this year.
If RK has similar deal and combine it with racing in DTM or different series, he will have pretty busy season.

#82 hansmann

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 13:58

Well, funny enough, Kubica proved that in 2006 with 7th on his debut on Hungary and first podium on Monza in his 3rd ever race, right?  :wave:

 

Back in 2006, I used to get lucky a lot more , too ...  ;)



#83 Bleu

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 14:39

Kubica was driving in every Friday FP in 2006 before he got racing seat wasn't he?



#84 Krr

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 14:41

Back in 2006, I used to get lucky a lot more , too ...  ;)

Ohh, poor girls...  :kiss:



#85 Krr

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 14:48

Kubica was driving in every Friday FP in 2006 before he got racing seat wasn't he?

Yes, he drove a hell more then he possibly will in 2020 (given he will at all), but my post was made with a blink of en eye to Paco as he likes to makes soo definite statements.

 

More recently we had Di Resta replacing Massa, and his performance was pretty much described as great or at least respectable and well, wasn't it?



#86 rkrp

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 15:31

Back in 2006 there was a 3rd car as well if I remember correctly (and the phrase of 3rd driver comes from those times, where they actually drove those cars). Young drivers could drive officially. No buying private sessions like some of the youngsters do. And now you have some silly idea of superpoints to get superlicence. 

But if we are already nostalgic about 2006:
:rolleyes: tire competition, fuel strategies, V8 engines. Ehh...
 


Edited by rkrp, 09 October 2019 - 15:32.


#87 pdac

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 15:32

well, that's your spin on it, not what the rest of the world thinks.

Weird thing to get upset about, btw.

 

Paco is correct. It's just that people misuse words. Adding "3rd" in front of the word "driver" surely means that you are one of the drivers. Adding the word "reserve" in front of the word "driver" means that you may be called on to be one of the drivers, if required.

 

So, I know that everyone interchanges the two terms, but they are really different.



#88 BobbyRicky

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 15:35

Paco is correct. It's just that people misuse words. Adding "3rd" in front of the word "driver" surely means that you are one of the drivers. Adding the word "reserve" in front of the word "driver" means that you may be called on to be one of the drivers, if required.

 

So, I know that everyone interchanges the two terms, but they are really different.

 

But if you place the word "Reserve" infront of the word "driver", surely that means that you are one of the drivers (Because you are still one of the drivers, even though you are the reserve one aka the 3rd driver in a team with 2 seats).

3rd driver = Reserve driver when each team has two cars. It aint that hard to understand.


Edited by BobbyRicky, 09 October 2019 - 15:36.


#89 MaGiK

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 15:52

Marcedes say Ocon is their third and reserve driver, Renault say Sirotkin is their third and reserve driver...but surely theres not such a thing in F1 right ? xD

#90 pdac

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 15:55

But if you place the word "Reserve" infront of the word "driver", surely that means that you are one of the drivers (Because you are still one of the drivers, even though you are the reserve one aka the 3rd driver in a team with 2 seats).

3rd driver = Reserve driver when each team has two cars. It aint that hard to understand.

 

A reserve driver would become a driver once they actually get to drive.  I guess the confusion in between the occupation "driver" and the team role of "driver".


Edited by pdac, 09 October 2019 - 15:56.


#91 garoidb

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 16:12

But if you place the word "Reserve" infront of the word "driver", surely that means that you are one of the drivers (Because you are still one of the drivers, even though you are the reserve one aka the 3rd driver in a team with 2 seats).

3rd driver = Reserve driver when each team has two cars. It aint that hard to understand.

 

... or the word "Truck" .....     ;)


Edited by garoidb, 09 October 2019 - 16:14.


#92 Clatter

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 16:20

Back in 2006 there was a 3rd car as well if I remember correctly (and the phrase of 3rd driver comes from those times, where they actually drove those cars). Young drivers could drive officially. No buying private sessions like some of the youngsters do. And now you have some silly idea of superpoints to get superlicence.

But if we are already nostalgic about 2006:
:rolleyes: tire competition, fuel strategies, V8 engines. Ehh...

Think the spare car went in 2003.

#93 Anderis

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 16:25

Well, funny enough, Kubica proved that in 2006 with 7th on his debut on Hungary and first podium on Monza in his 3rd ever race, right?  :wave:

That 7th in Hungary was nothing impressive, though. Spun twice, lapped by his team-mate if I'm not mistaken (despite SC in mid race) and only finished in points before his DQ due to very high attrition.



#94 rkrp

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 16:38

Think the spare car went in 2003.

Spare car yes, but 3rd car was used on fridays by 3rd driver. Different thing.

 

That 7th in Hungary was nothing impressive, though. Spun twice, lapped by his team-mate if I'm not mistaken (despite SC in mid race) and only finished in points before his DQ due to very high attrition.

DQ was due to puncture in a fire extinguisher. And yeah, he was lapped, but even Coulthard on 5th was. As well as Massa in Ferrari. Pretty crazy race to debut i would say. Rain, difficult track, only 12 of 22 finished it. 13 if you include Kubica.

I was impressed. Mario Theissen was as well i guess  ;)



#95 Paco

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 16:41

That 7th in Hungary was nothing impressive, though. Spun twice, lapped by his team-mate if I'm not mistaken (despite SC in mid race) and only finished in points before his DQ due to very high attrition.


Wow awesome memory... like his test at Renault a lot of his fans don’t care for context and just what shows in the result..

#96 Paco

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 16:42

Think the spare car went in 2003.


That long ago, wow. So many times I wish we still had the spare car. We robbed of good quali or races due to mechanical failures.

#97 Counterbalance

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 16:52

Marcedes say Ocon is their third and reserve driver, Renault say Sirotkin is their third and reserve driver...but surely theres not such a thing in F1 right ? xD


There is, but ask Paul DiResta how many F1 races he's competed in recently. Once in six years if I recall correctly.

So no, a third driver isn't really anything to get excited about. The best that Kubica can really hope for is a sim / development driver in F1. He's just not quick enough to justify a seat on the F1 grid from 2020 and beyond.

The results from this season speak for themselves alone, hence the start of this thread

#98 Clatter

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 17:33

Spare car yes, but 3rd car was used on fridays by 3rd driver. Different thing.

 

 


Your right, I'd forgotten about that.

#99 Paco

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 17:34

As well, why would a team employee someone who has only driven a bad car badly and then trust into a better car, his value is what... wowbthis car has better grip yadda wow this is so much better... thanks duh. Now if a driver gets demoted or moves from a top tier and drivers a lesser car then some valuable insight can be had of team inter workings, car behaviour.. so like Kimi and Daniel have done. That’s why all this of Robert and Haas is so odd.. unless its about the money and then fine, they would go into it with their eyes wide open and it’s fine unlike Williams that I believe had a hope he could have gone better and also been better at helping..

Edited by Paco, 09 October 2019 - 17:44.


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#100 Clatter

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 17:35

That long ago, wow. So many times I wish we still had the spare car. We robbed of good quali or races due to mechanical failures.

 


I do wonder how much it actually saves, but the number of times it would actually have been required is quite small.