Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Race direction / race control / stewarding incompetence


  • Please log in to reply
214 replies to this topic

#101 FLB

FLB
  • Member

  • 10,539 posts
  • Joined: February 01

Posted 27 October 2019 - 15:25

This was with cars that were a whole lot more dangerous... and the drivers didn’t slow down much, did they?



Advertisement

#102 pdac

pdac
  • Member

  • 8,580 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 27 October 2019 - 15:42

This was with cars that were a whole lot more dangerous... and the drivers didn’t slow down much, did they?

 

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here.



#103 KWSN - DSM

KWSN - DSM
  • Member

  • 21,240 posts
  • Joined: January 03

Posted 27 October 2019 - 15:49

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here.

 

That everything 40 years ago can be compared 1 to 1 to F1 today I think, I do not agree.

 

:cool:



#104 SCUDmissile

SCUDmissile
  • Member

  • 7,421 posts
  • Joined: May 11

Posted 27 October 2019 - 16:08

This was with cars that were a whole lot more dangerous... and the drivers didn’t slow down much, did they?

https://www.youtube....h?v=ntQLZ-m4Uhs

Yeah, the 1980s, a time famous for its safety and lack of deaths :rolleyes:

Edited by SCUDmissile, 27 October 2019 - 16:08.


#105 HP

HP
  • Member

  • 18,335 posts
  • Joined: October 99

Posted 27 October 2019 - 16:19

Just last year after calling it a lap too early in Canada, ideas started about moving to a digital chequered flag. This was implemented at the start of this season. Of course this has now gone wrong as well, and you get people like Vettel saying "they should use a traditional chequered flag to end the race".

 

Incredible how they just can't get it right. 

Both decisions were human errors. The programming error however IMO is the worse one as many people rely on the accuracy of their digital devices.



#106 FLB

FLB
  • Member

  • 10,539 posts
  • Joined: February 01

Posted 27 October 2019 - 16:41

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here.

That the more things change, the more they stay the same.

Drivers did not lift much then (with much more dangerous cars); so they won’t lift much now, even in clearly dangerous situations. It’s in their nature... so let’s stop blaming the race director and the stewards.

For God’s sake, one of the reasons the race director invoked at Zandvoort in 1973 for not stopping the race was because the lap times were not significantly much slower than normal, so he reasoned nothing bad was happening. The drivers were racing at the same speeds as a car was burning with part of it less than two feet from the trajectory.

#107 HP

HP
  • Member

  • 18,335 posts
  • Joined: October 99

Posted 27 October 2019 - 16:50

Additionally, the way the marshalling sensors broke due to a car crashing is a bad sign to me. These sensors should be super reliable. I understand that this doesn't remove the fact that marshalls can wave a flag, but it's not the same because drivers have grown used to the huge yellow LED lights around the track and yellow lights on their steering wheels, which are far more obvious for the driver. Max said he hadn't seen the yellow flag, and while technically it's his responsibility to see it, it's plausible a driver can miss 1 waved flag, especially when they have grown used to the LED lights and steering wheel lights to inform them. Regardless of the driver in question needing to be penalized or not, it can cause dangerous situations.

 

Hopefully the FIA understands this is a serious issue that can't happen again, instead of it just writing it off as a one-off.

 

I don't think that drivers are so quick to forget to see the marshals flag weaving. But those focusing on the perfect lap overriding any sense of safety issues seems a hazard in waiting.

 

In driving schools for us everyday drivers, they teach things a bit differently than it looks to be the case at racing schools. These drivers nowadays start racing so early, that going to a 'normal' driving school comes way later (where there is the focus on driving safely and responsibly ). By that time, certain habits have been ingrained for those kid racers. IMO they should at least check those kids at their level do regard safety issues higher than anything else.

 

I've often read ideas that blame top drivers for those coming after them to lower the standards. That is taking at a top to bottom approach. There is some merit to it, however lets not forget the bottom to top issue as well. IMO it's a bit cheap to say driver x does this and this, because Senna, Schumacher, and whoever.did it too. That IMO is just shifting blame, but not really helping the issue.

 

Simply put, if a car crashes, a driver needs to switch consciously and unconsciously into safety first mode.  Rules and penalties would be much less needed. Some drivers would still be with us today. The last issue that I just stated is the most important of them all. Life is more valuable than competition. Period



#108 ElectricBoogie

ElectricBoogie
  • Member

  • 615 posts
  • Joined: March 19

Posted 27 October 2019 - 17:06

Stewards effectively expressed that if a driver chooses to lift passing an incident and thus ruining their final Q lap, it's just their decision. Just like it was Hamilton's decision to not crash with Leclerc in Monza, making it OK for the latter the shove the former off.
Hubert died from lack of response/knowledge of yellow flags. 
Usually, someone needs to die for legislators and drivers to wake up. Now, it seems a bit more is needed actually.

The rule is, by default keep your foot planted, risk a small penalty if any. A matter of time to the next casualty under yellow.

I've said it before, yellows should not be a matter of a person with yes and a flag and pressing a button. It should already do out and be sounding an alarm in drivers' ears the moment Bottas hits the wall or is fully out of control anyway. His engineers knew he was crashing before the saw footage, just from telemetry. This same telemetry should be alerting race control and other drivers the same instance. And the HALT command into their each overruling any radio chatter. Respond later than half a second with maximum retardation and you have yourself a race ban. Or more.



#109 pdac

pdac
  • Member

  • 8,580 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 27 October 2019 - 17:14

That the more things change, the more they stay the same.

Drivers did not lift much then (with much more dangerous cars); so they won’t lift much now, even in clearly dangerous situations. It’s in their nature... so let’s stop blaming the race director and the stewards.

For God’s sake, one of the reasons the race director invoked at Zandvoort in 1973 for not stopping the race was because the lap times were not significantly much slower than normal, so he reasoned nothing bad was happening. The drivers were racing at the same speeds as a car was burning with part of it less than two feet from the trajectory.

 

So you're saying that if there are safety rules in the book and the drivers choose to ignore them it's not the race directors fault. If not, then whose fault is it?



#110 FLB

FLB
  • Member

  • 10,539 posts
  • Joined: February 01

Posted 27 October 2019 - 17:57

So you're saying that if there are safety rules in the book and the drivers choose to ignore them it's not the race directors fault. If not, then whose fault is it?

The drivers’. It’s their responsibility. And they have always accepted it as such, in every era.

Like Graham Hill told another driver who was in shock after Williamson:

‘Better him than you!’

#111 KWSN - DSM

KWSN - DSM
  • Member

  • 21,240 posts
  • Joined: January 03

Posted 27 October 2019 - 18:16

Race control and stewards showing how poor and inconsistent it is, how penalties are issued and applied depending on how the driver is. And we just have to suck it up, nothing substantial will change.

 

:cool:



#112 Fatgadget

Fatgadget
  • Member

  • 6,210 posts
  • Joined: March 06

Posted 27 October 2019 - 18:22

I said it before and I got pilloried!...I will say it again.This current race director compared to the late old Charlie is..meh!



#113 ANF

ANF
  • Member

  • 10,718 posts
  • Joined: April 12

Posted 27 October 2019 - 18:37

This was with cars that were a whole lot more dangerous... and the drivers didn’t slow down much, did they?

The pinnacle of motorsport and circuit safey! I can't believe it took another eleven years until F1 started using the safety car.

Great shot of de Cesaris crashing at 10:40, by the way.

#114 pdac

pdac
  • Member

  • 8,580 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 27 October 2019 - 18:58

I said it before and I got pilloried!...I will say it again.This current race director compared to the late old Charlie is..meh!

 

Charlie was incompetent too. It looks like his legacy might just be a whole bunch of incompetents holding positions that they do not have the abilities for.

 

Edit: I guess the difference is that Charlie combined incompetence with confidence. It looks like the confidence has now gone and we're just left with the incompetence.


Edited by pdac, 27 October 2019 - 18:59.


#115 Myrvold

Myrvold
  • Member

  • 8,936 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 27 October 2019 - 20:53

2.4.5.1(b) is correct for 2017 version that comes up first if you google for it. :rolleyes:  

 

However, the most recent one on FIA's own sites, tells you something different...



#116 Myrvold

Myrvold
  • Member

  • 8,936 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 27 October 2019 - 20:55

The drivers’. It’s their responsibility. And they have always accepted it as such, in every era.

 

As a driver I accept that it is my responsibility to drive to the limits of my and the cars ability. I accept that there is a proper risk in what I am doing.

I do not accept that others put me in danger by deciding to do what they want, especially not if it goes against rules that's are in place for safety.

 

That's an important difference.



#117 DutchQuicksilver

DutchQuicksilver
  • Member

  • 4,840 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 27 October 2019 - 20:57

Didn’t Verstappen overtake Magnussen outside of the track by the way? I saw a notification that the stewards saw it, but didn’t investigate it. A bit strange no?

#118 Myrvold

Myrvold
  • Member

  • 8,936 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 27 October 2019 - 21:01

Didn’t Verstappen overtake Magnussen outside of the track by the way? I saw a notification that the stewards saw it, but didn’t investigate it. A bit strange no?

 

He did. But, well Magnussen being in a slow car, and Verstappen in a fast. They probably thought "He'd get by him soon anyway, doesn't matter". It's like the FIA decides to go against everything we learn when doing courses, refreshers etc.



#119 Lights

Lights
  • Member

  • 16,749 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 27 October 2019 - 21:05

Didn’t Verstappen overtake Magnussen outside of the track by the way? I saw a notification that the stewards saw it, but didn’t investigate it. A bit strange no?

 

I recall the message was more like they investigated it but they didn't see a penalty in it.

Which could have used a bit more explanation either way, because all we saw was indeed Max overtaking off track.

 

Then again, Magnussen was driving incredibly slow there, he lost many car lengths to Max on the run to the next corner and it looked like he had a problem. Maybe that contributed to their decision.



Advertisement

#120 Zoe

Zoe
  • Member

  • 3,327 posts
  • Joined: July 99

Posted 27 October 2019 - 21:11

 

Then again, Magnussen was driving incredibly slow there,

 

So it wouldn't have hurt Max to let him by as in the rules and then overtake again.



#121 Myrvold

Myrvold
  • Member

  • 8,936 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 27 October 2019 - 21:39

Then again, Magnussen was driving incredibly slow there, he lost many car lengths to Max on the run to the next corner and it looked like he had a problem. Maybe that contributed to their decision.

 

He went so slow because Verstappen hit him though. So arguably, any problems in those section of corners were down to Verstappen running in to him. But maybe that's the get out of jail free card? Cause issues for another driver, then pass off the track claiming the other car had problems.



#122 KWSN - DSM

KWSN - DSM
  • Member

  • 21,240 posts
  • Joined: January 03

Posted 27 October 2019 - 21:42

He went so slow because Verstappen hit him though. So arguably, any problems in those section of corners were down to Verstappen running in to him. But maybe that's the get out of jail free card? Cause issues for another driver, then pass off the track claiming the other car had problems.

 

Question is, switch drivers so Magnussen overtake Verstappen outside track exactly same scenario, would there have been a penalty?

 

:cool:



#123 Lights

Lights
  • Member

  • 16,749 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 27 October 2019 - 21:43

So it wouldn't have hurt Max to let him by as in the rules and then overtake again.

 

Yeah this process could be implemented in my opinion, if the FIA were able to decide on penalties quickly. However, they're not, so that'll never work I'm afraid.



#124 Myrvold

Myrvold
  • Member

  • 8,936 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 27 October 2019 - 21:45

Question is, switch drivers so Magnussen overtake Verstappen outside track exactly same scenario, would there have been a penalty?

 

:cool:

 

I would say that is quite likely.

 

Well, unless Magnussen had been fighting for pole, then had a puncture and was coming through the field, Verstappen being slower and the stewards seemingly being a bit nervous for getting angry fans for penalizing a driver who had already had issues, regardless of what the rules say.

 

We are all equal, but some are more equal than others. Fits here.



#125 Lights

Lights
  • Member

  • 16,749 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 27 October 2019 - 21:45

Question is, switch drivers so Magnussen overtake Verstappen outside track exactly same scenario, would there have been a penalty?

 

:cool:

 

I do suspect that they tend to look away if it's about a 'top' car overtaking a midfield/backmarker car and the move isn't completely fair.

 

But in this particular case, I'm not entire sure. But I have yet to see a replay of it.



#126 KWSN - DSM

KWSN - DSM
  • Member

  • 21,240 posts
  • Joined: January 03

Posted 27 October 2019 - 21:49

I would say that is quite likely.

 

Well, unless Magnussen had been fighting for pole, then had a puncture and was coming through the field, Verstappen being slower and the stewards seemingly being a bit nervous for getting angry fans for penalizing a driver who had already had issues, regardless of what the rules say.

 

We are all equal, but some are more equal than others. Fits here.

 

And this is where they fail repeatedly, rules are rules apply them regardless of who the driver is, and they do not. Will not change, we just have to suck it up.

 

:cool:



#127 Myrvold

Myrvold
  • Member

  • 8,936 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 27 October 2019 - 21:51

And this is where they fail repeatedly, rules are rules apply them regardless of who the driver is, and they do not. Will not change, we just have to suck it up.

 

:cool:

 

Well they (FIA and instructors) keeps telling us this is not how things are supposed to be done. Also, they keep telling us that we are to penalize breach of rules, not what the consequence is.

 

Another saying that fits would be "Do as I say, not as I do".



#128 KWSN - DSM

KWSN - DSM
  • Member

  • 21,240 posts
  • Joined: January 03

Posted 27 October 2019 - 21:58

Well they (FIA and instructors) keeps telling us this is not how things are supposed to be done. Also, they keep telling us that we are to penalize breach of rules, not what the consequence is.

 

Another saying that fits would be "Do as I say, not as I do".

 

Mot supposed to issue penalties according to the rules is what the FIA and Instructs say? There must be something I do not understand in what you say.

 

:cool:



#129 Myrvold

Myrvold
  • Member

  • 8,936 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 27 October 2019 - 22:18

Mot supposed to issue penalties according to the rules is what the FIA and Instructs say? There must be something I do not understand in what you say.

 

:cool:

 

I misread you!

 

I read your post as meaning: "They penalize depending on who the driver is, not what's done" and said we are told this is the wrong way to do it.



#130 KWSN - DSM

KWSN - DSM
  • Member

  • 21,240 posts
  • Joined: January 03

Posted 28 October 2019 - 00:02

I misread you!

 

I read your post as meaning: "They penalize depending on who the driver is, not what's done" and said we are told this is the wrong way to do it.

:up:

 

:cool:



#131 SophieB

SophieB
  • RC Forum Host

  • 12,241 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 28 October 2019 - 09:47

I frankly find the following hard to believe:
 
Verstappen’s comments did not cause yellow flag penalty investigation – Masi
 

This prompted speculation the stewards began investigating Verstappen in reaction to his comments. But Masi denied “100 percent” this was the case.
“By the time I referred it to the stewards, and told the stewards that the matter’s to be looked at, it was after that that Max’s comments came to light,” he said in response to a question from RaceFans.
According to Masi there was a delay to the notification of the investigation because he was overseeing repair work at the crash scene and the stewards were busy with another matter.
“We were actually looking into it straight away,” he said. “But with the sequence of what happened, the primary thing was Valtteri’s health, getting the Medical Car out there, making sure that he was all OK.
“So, [that] being at the end of the session was one part. The second part, once that happened, was obviously getting the car back to the team.
“The third element [was] repairing the circuit for the next activity. So as part of my role as the safety delegate, I went out there to make sure that everything was back in position.”
Once that was taken care of Masi began looking into whether Lewis Hamilton, Sebastian Vettel and Max Verstappen had driven correctly while passing the crash scene.
“[i] got back to the office and started working through all the various bits of data that exists and had all three cars that were after Valtteri’s incident, which was Lewis, Sebastian and Max, and reviewed all three.”

 
Now I know they did rejig the roles a bit after the death of CW, but it's weird if he's saying now the stewards have to wait for his say so/input before cracking on. It honestly may be me but I thought it had been established that notionally the F1 race stewards did their rulings on infractions independently of the race director. If he is saying that, it's a crazily inefficient way of working on the face of it. Like, stewards and drivers alike all sit round until he gets round to it.



#132 Frood

Frood
  • Member

  • 3,623 posts
  • Joined: January 14

Posted 28 October 2019 - 10:24

Meanwhile Kvyat thinks his penalty is an example of the stewards “killing the sport”

https://www.autospor...lling-the-sport

Whilst I agree in general with the sentiment about recent decisions... to moan about getting a penalty for blindly blithering into someone on the last lap is a bit poor from Kvyat.

#133 Lights

Lights
  • Member

  • 16,749 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 28 October 2019 - 10:42

I frankly find the following hard to believe:
 
Verstappen’s comments did not cause yellow flag penalty investigation – Masi
 

 
Now I know they did rejig the roles a bit after the death of CW, but it's weird if he's saying now the stewards have to wait for his say so/input before cracking on. It honestly may be me but I thought it had been established that notionally the F1 race stewards did their rulings on infractions independently of the race director. If he is saying that, it's a crazily inefficient way of working on the face of it. Like, stewards and drivers alike all sit round until he gets round to it.

 

Doesn't sound efficient indeed, and it partially explains the extreme duration of decision making we've often seen this year.

 

Regardless, even if we believe everything Masi is saying here, at the very least it still shows that their communication is lacking. All they had to do was to release a statement saying that the incident was under investigation. It's the whole "not investigating" and later "we are having another look" that makes them look like amateurs.



#134 Lights

Lights
  • Member

  • 16,749 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 28 October 2019 - 10:49

Meanwhile Kvyat thinks his penalty is an example of the stewards “killing the sport”

https://www.autospor...lling-the-sport

Whilst I agree in general with the sentiment about recent decisions... to moan about getting a penalty for blindly blithering into someone on the last lap is a bit poor from Kvyat.

 

Yeah don't get me wrong, nothing against you bringing it up here, but I'm not sure if this belongs in this topic.

 

Kvyat's argumentation of "I thought they wanted to 'let us race'" is simply invalid. He hardly had his front wing along Hulkenberg's tire and hadn't done enough to claim the apex.

The stewards handled this incident fine.



#135 Frood

Frood
  • Member

  • 3,623 posts
  • Joined: January 14

Posted 28 October 2019 - 10:55

Yeah don't get me wrong, nothing against you bringing it up here, but I'm not sure if this belongs in this topic.


No, I can understand that. I guess my point is more that an increasing number of drivers seem to have lost confidence in the stewarding this year, rightly or wrongly (as it is in this case)

#136 Clatter

Clatter
  • Member

  • 36,222 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 28 October 2019 - 11:11

Doesn't sound efficient indeed, and it partially explains the extreme duration of decision making we've often seen this year.

 

Regardless, even if we believe everything Masi is saying here, at the very least it still shows that their communication is lacking. All they had to do was to release a statement saying that the incident was under investigation. It's the whole "not investigating" and later "we are having another look" that makes them look like amateurs.

 


Did they ever say they were not investigating, or was that just a mistaken bit of reporting?

#137 registered

registered
  • Member

  • 626 posts
  • Joined: March 15

Posted 28 October 2019 - 11:12


So if there is an in race incident that requires some trackside repairs, does he leave his post as race steward and go trackside with his safety delegate hat on?

Masi is the race director and not a steward. As such it is also his job to refer incidents to the stewards which may require an investigation and approbiate penalty.

#138 Clatter

Clatter
  • Member

  • 36,222 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 28 October 2019 - 11:16

Masi is the race director and not a steward. As such it is also his job to refer incidents to the stewards which may require an investigation and approbiate penalty.

 


Ok, I mistakenly wrote steward, and now managed to delete the post instead of editing it.😒😊 So...If there is an in race incident requiring trackside repairs does he leave his post as race director and go trackside as safety delegate?

Edited by Clatter, 28 October 2019 - 11:19.


#139 Myrvold

Myrvold
  • Member

  • 8,936 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 28 October 2019 - 15:25

Masi is the race director and not a steward. As such it is also his job to refer incidents to the stewards which may require an investigation and approbiate penalty.


However, the stewards may choose to investigate incidents on their own.

Advertisement

#140 Lights

Lights
  • Member

  • 16,749 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 28 October 2019 - 17:58

No, I can understand that. I guess my point is more that an increasing number of drivers seem to have lost confidence in the stewarding this year, rightly or wrongly (as it is in this case)

 

Could be the case, but I'm not sure. I think there's an inherent characteristic within racing drivers that makes them initially think they were doing the right thing even if they'd later admit they didn't. We see it all the time on team radio's and in post-race interviews. 

 

I can remember many instances from years ago where drivers incorrectly refused to take blame as well, but it's of course hard to quantify this between different years.

 

My feeling is that we keep seeing more incidents where both drivers feel entitled to the 'racing line', which in turn makes drivers speak out more about the stewards.



#141 KWSN - DSM

KWSN - DSM
  • Member

  • 21,240 posts
  • Joined: January 03

Posted 28 October 2019 - 19:38

The paved run-offs make for some of the hardheaded driving, there is no real penalty if messing up, and you can as we have seen several times the last couple of years overtake where there once was a gravel trap.

 

:cool:



#142 BillBald

BillBald
  • Member

  • 5,750 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 28 October 2019 - 20:13

That the more things change, the more they stay the same.

Drivers did not lift much then (with much more dangerous cars); so they won’t lift much now, even in clearly dangerous situations. It’s in their nature... so let’s stop blaming the race director and the stewards.

For God’s sake, one of the reasons the race director invoked at Zandvoort in 1973 for not stopping the race was because the lap times were not significantly much slower than normal, so he reasoned nothing bad was happening. The drivers were racing at the same speeds as a car was burning with part of it less than two feet from the trajectory.

 

It's precisely because the drivers do not lift much, that we need competent people as race director and stewards, to enforce the rules without fear or favour.

 

Since we appear to have highly incompetent people in those positions, they will be blamed, and rightly so. I thought Charlie was pretty useless (yes, I know we are not supposed to say that), but his replacement seems even worse. So really it's the FIA itself which must be blamed.



#143 KWSN - DSM

KWSN - DSM
  • Member

  • 21,240 posts
  • Joined: January 03

Posted 28 October 2019 - 20:56

The energy and effort with which the Steiner outburst was handled, when held up against the Verstappen yellow flag makes for what appear to me as misplaced level of priorities.

 

:cool:



#144 Marklar

Marklar
  • Member

  • 34,928 posts
  • Joined: May 15

Posted 02 November 2019 - 17:00

So it took them the whole race to realize that?
 

FIA race director Michael Masi admitted in yesterdays drivers briefing it was a mistake not to penalize Max Verstappen at Mexico who passed Kevin Magnussen off track during the race.

 

https://twitter.com/...674631650349056



#145 FLB

FLB
  • Member

  • 10,539 posts
  • Joined: February 01

Posted 02 November 2019 - 17:20

So it took them the whole race to realize that?
 

https://twitter.com/...674631650349056

Good God, if that's not an admittance of incompetence (either of persons or of a system), then I don't not what it is...


Edited by FLB, 02 November 2019 - 17:24.


#146 Lights

Lights
  • Member

  • 16,749 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 02 November 2019 - 17:29

I'm not surprised. I sort of predicted it right before the race and it inevitably didn't take them long.

 

This is the second time in 2 weeks where the FIA has gone from "We won't investigate it", *something to happen*, to them investigating it and it taking 3+ hours to reach a verdict that should have been reached in the first place.

 

They have all the video and telemetry that was needed to decide these cases, and through their own incompetence the drivers twice almost got away with it. It's just a matter of time before a driver does get away with it if this continues.

 

This is indeed what happens when they constantly appear to be in a rush to claim "No investigation necessary" before doing the proper bloody investigation!

 

Masi himself has said it best: "I'll never fill Charlie Whiting's shoes". Whereas he insinuates those shoes are hard to fill, I was honestly expecting an improvement. Never thought we'd end up with the opposite.



#147 KWSN - DSM

KWSN - DSM
  • Member

  • 21,240 posts
  • Joined: January 03

Posted 02 November 2019 - 17:56

Not rushing to now penalties, rushing to not penalize certain drivers, which now bite them and will soon result in an overreaction (again).

 

:cool:



#148 Heyli

Heyli
  • Member

  • 3,204 posts
  • Joined: May 17

Posted 17 November 2019 - 19:23

I´ll just put it here I guess.

 

So, what penalty should an unsafe release now be?



#149 Skizo

Skizo
  • Member

  • 515 posts
  • Joined: July 14

Posted 17 November 2019 - 19:30

I´ll just put it here I guess.

 

So, what penalty should an unsafe release now be?

Depends...is the race on odd day?Full moon,how the stars allign...

Maybe they could take this thing paper and like,write rules on it and then,apply it when somebody like,broke it.

UNSAFE release,was it safe or not,this is easy question no grey zones.



#150 Beri

Beri
  • Member

  • 2,155 posts
  • Joined: January 14

Posted 17 November 2019 - 20:03

I´ll just put it here I guess.

So, what penalty should an unsafe release now be?


Monaco - Verstappen/Bottas was 5 seconds
Brazil - Verstappen/Kubica was 5 seconds

I guess that's your answer.