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Race direction / race control / stewarding incompetence


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#201 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 19 November 2019 - 15:14

EJmEY7xWoAc2Pfk.jpg

 

:D

 

Which is another one that takes forever without having to....

 

Lapped cars may now drive through the pits and take up their position at the end of the field.

 

:cool:



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#202 Kalmake

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Posted 19 November 2019 - 15:29

Is there any difference in VSC and SC minimum marshalling sector times?

I believe the current VSC/SC delta rules are flawed anyway. An absolute speed limit should be introduced.

For example, these are Leclerc's speeds on the nine laps before, during and after the safety car for Bottas (top = highest speed reached at any point on the straight before T4; apex = lowest speed reached through T4).
 

green flag:   top 303; apex 149
local yellow: top 294; apex 147
safety car:   top 183; apex 130
   [makes a pit stop]
safety car:   top 287; apex 106
safety car:   top 281; apex 139
   [catches the safety car train]
safety car:   top 253; apex 89
safety car:   top 252; apex 149
safety car:   top 237; apex 147
   [restart]
green + tow:  top 321; apex 127

What would you set the absolute speed limit to?

 

From the data we see SC worked to slow him down until the site was clear.



#203 Risil

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Posted 19 November 2019 - 15:42

EJmEY7xWoAc2Pfk.jpg
 
:D

 

And some prawn crackers on the side?



#204 Whatisvalis

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Posted 20 November 2019 - 02:47

Happened on a video of the opening laps of the 2007 European GP - I had forgotten how crazy it was until Liuzzi almost collected the safety car and a recovery tractor. It's incredible to think this one race offered multiple examples of unsafe recovery procedures and it still took the FIA years to address.

 

https://youtu.be/-hxVZvG897U?t=393



#205 l2k2

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Posted 20 November 2019 - 04:44

Which is another one that takes forever without having to....

 

Lapped cars may now drive through the pits and take up their position at the end of the field.

 

:cool:

 

“We took this one minor problem and replaced it with a much larger one.” –no-one, yet, fortunately.

 

As before, this would be devastating for the midfield (and sometimes, especially with adverse weather, also to the unlucky top team drivers). The example situations:

 

1. The race leader is in progress of lapping a pack of cars (racing for points, like for P4). Worst case: He manages to split the two drivers competing for WDC just before the safety car. The cars that used to be separated by less than a second are now more than a lap apart. (As the cars that were not lapped but were still ahead of the race leader will end up at the back of the pack behind the SC, and then the car that were lapped will have to drop behind them, thus being lapped by them.)

 

2. Uneven number of pit stops, or different timing of stops in midfield or in mixed weather again for cars competing for WDC. A car that was ahead on track just pitted before SC, and is (temporarily compared to the cars behind him) lapped by race leader. The SC is deployed, and his rivals who were behind choose to tactically avoid pitting (the race leader either does not pit, depending on who will get screwed with which option, or simply gets the benefit of faster SC pitting). The pack is formed, the pitted before SC cars getting screwed and additionally lapped by a full extra lap because of your punishing scheme. SC ends, and all the not-yet pitted cars pit at its end, but are still some 45–90 seconds ahead of those that pitted before SC depending on the track.

 

That is, this would open a (less horrible than closing the pits) can of worms for ... well, use your imagination. 2008 calls and asks for its Singapore back.



#206 secessionman

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Posted 20 November 2019 - 06:27

Exactly. Bottas had stopped on the access road at the end of the straight and there was always the risk that the crane driver would put (part of) the crane (or the dangling Mercedes) in a position where it could be hit by another car.



No shots of the crane in the video, but the Mercedes can be seen at 0:47.

 

 

If there was any realistic danger Bottas would have jumped the hell over that barrier instead of fannying about for god knows how long.



#207 ExFlagMan

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Posted 20 November 2019 - 12:48

Exactly. Bottas had stopped on the access road at the end of the straight and there was always the risk that the crane driver would put (part of) the crane (or the dangling Mercedes) in a position where it could be hit by another car.
 

 

Any driver would need to be pretty 'determined' (or totally talentless) to manage to hit a car or crane in that position - especially if they were obeying the letter of the law regarding yellow flags. 

 

(Ok I see the error in my logic.... - this is F1 after all)

 

Given the micro-level of F1 timing systems I see no reason why there cannot be a very low sector delta set for any yellow flag zone - with an automatic drive through for any non-compliance.



#208 pdac

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Posted 20 November 2019 - 14:07

Happened on a video of the opening laps of the 2007 European GP - I had forgotten how crazy it was until Liuzzi almost collected the safety car and a recovery tractor. It's incredible to think this one race offered multiple examples of unsafe recovery procedures and it still took the FIA years to address.

 

https://youtu.be/-hxVZvG897U?t=393

 

Safety was, and still seems to be, not a primary concern for most. I guess unless you have a Jackie Stewart around it's not going to change (certainly not for the non-drivers placed in hazardous areas around the track)



#209 pdac

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Posted 20 November 2019 - 14:10

If there was any realistic danger Bottas would have jumped the hell over that barrier instead of fannying about for god knows how long.

 

You think? People's perception of danger differs slightly from the actual danger. Also, people assess risk differently.



#210 Marklar

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Posted 05 December 2019 - 00:51

chequered flag has been reinstated as the definitive end-of-race signal

https://www.fia.com/...il-decisions-16

#211 PayasYouRace

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Posted 05 December 2019 - 08:40

chequered flag has been reinstated as the definitive end-of-race signal

https://www.fia.com/...il-decisions-16


I’ve obviously missed something. I thought it always was.

#212 pitlanepalpatine

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Posted 05 December 2019 - 09:19

I’ve obviously missed something. I thought it always was.

 

I think it might be related to the whole if it's waved at the wrong time scenario and avoid confusion on whether the race is still on or not.



#213 ANF

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Posted 05 December 2019 - 09:59

The flag was replaced by the new, ingenious chequered light panel, which would make sure the end-of-race signal wasn't given too early.

2018 Sporting regulations:
"43.1 The end-of-race signal will be given at the Line as soon as the leading car has covered the full race distance in accordance with Article 5.3."

2019 Sporting regulations:
"43.1 A chequered light panel will be the end‐of‐race signal and will be shown at the Line as soon as the leading car has covered the full race distance in accordance with Article 5.3."

#214 Marklar

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Posted 05 December 2019 - 13:29

They also removed the requirement for there to be a DSQ for missing the weightbridge, and changed the parc ferme rules about being allowed to change damaged parts from "similar" to "same"