28 replies to this topic

[GoldenColt]

With 3 rounds to go and the top 2 places being almost certainly taken by the Mercedes-drivers, who is going to come out ahead in the battle for the "Best of the Rest"-category? Currently we have

 

- Charles Leclerc in 3rd place with 236 pts (2 wins, 2 second places, 5 third places)

- Sebastian Vettel in 4th place with 230 pts (1 win, 5 second places, 3 third places)

- Max Verstappen in 5th place with 220 pts (2 win, 1 second place, 3 third places).

 

This is not so much about P3 as such, but the fact that we have these three drivers squabbling for this position making it more interesting. Can Charles beat his 4 times WDC-teammate in his first season at Ferrari? Or will Max outscore both of the Ferrari drivers in what I consider to be the third best car overall this season? What would it mean for Vettel's reputation if he ends up behind both young guns? Obviously the German has the most to lose given his stats and the fact that he has been with the team for quite a few years now. But after a rather horrible mid-season I can see signs of improvement for Vettel, which might result in a late-season surge to get him ahead of Charles in the standings. Max on the other hand seems to have lost his form since the summer break, making silly and costly mistakes. Who will prevail?

 

Edited by GoldenColt, 28 October 2019 - 15:03.

[goldenboy]

I like this.

I feel like Vettel is coming home strong. Max doesn't have the car anymore, usual Mexico anomaly aside.

I'm rooting for Charles though, but no matter what happens it's been a great second season in F1 for the guy. What a whirlwind.

[shure]

I think Vettel's reputation has already taken a bit of a dent this season but luckily for him he's managed to redeem himself a bit in the last races.  I think how the following races unfold will be more important in that regard than the actual points standings.  Max already has a reputation for putting the car above where it should be; Leclerc has a reputation for being exceptionally quick but a little mercurial; while Vettel has one for great but inconsistent race pace and a greater sensitivity to ca setup and tyres.  The biggest potential loser in terms of reputation will therefore be Vettel.  As long as he continues like he is at the moment not much will change, but if he drops again then the baying mob will resurface.  If Leclerc drops for any reason it will be put down to inexperience, while if Max does it will be the car.

 

I think this one is difficult to predict with any accuracy but I feel the Red Bull just isn't on a par with the Ferrari - specific circumstances like Mexico notwithstanding - and 3rd spot will be decided between the Ferrari drivers, barring accidents.  Given Vettel's rejuvenated race pace I think his greater experience may well make the difference but I think it's way too close to call

[Lights]

Vettel will get it unless he makes more of his trademark unforced errors. As long as he doesn't, he's a bit stronger than Leclerc and more importantly, things just seem to go his way automatically lately.

Qualified down in Singapore? Accidentally gets the best strategy.
2nd in Japan because Mercedes mess up badly with Hamilton's strategy
Plan C in Mexico? Beats his previously race leading teammate whose strategy turns out to be worse.

Leclerc keeps leading him yet loses out anyway, either because of getting worse strategy or because Vettel uses his experience to get ahead.

Max is behind, doesn't have the car anymore plus everything seems to go against him lately. He did well to fight these guys in the championship the whole year though. And I'm sure he's happy about missing the FIA gala.

Edited by Lights, 28 October 2019 - 15:22.

[Marklar]

Dont see Max in this, unless both Ferraris retire at least once.

It's 50/50 imo, might not even come down to performance but luck with strategy games and such.

[Risil]

A few races ago I mulled opening a thread about the battle for P2 including these three and Bottas. Good thing I didn't!

[TomNokoe]

I hope Vettel, just because it'll prompt a few post-season arguments  but also proves he's nowhere near finished!

[SenorSjon]

Seeing the luck Verstappen has since the summer break, he won't be in it. Or his fortunes would finally change dramatically of course.

[BuddyHolly]

I think Vettel will get it but I would prefer Leclerc to take it really.

[Hela]

I think it's between Leclerc and Vettel, don't think Max will be able to put up a fight, Ferrari has the better car and Max had his chance this weekend to win and increase his lead but he messed it up. 

 

It's not only 3rd place that may be out of Max's reach, right now in head to head his team mate (Albon) has scored more points than him, I think he should focus more on besting his team mate, I don't think he has the car to get 3rd place 

Edited by Hela, 28 October 2019 - 15:57.

[Arundo]

Voted Verstappen but momentum is not with him nor is the car at the moment compared to Ferrari. 

With his luck someone will probably drive him of the road again in the coming races. 

Edited by Arundo, 28 October 2019 - 15:58.

[abc]

Vettel will get it unless he makes more of his trademark unforced errors. As long as he doesn't, he's a bit stronger than Leclerc and more importantly, things just seem to go his way automatically lately.

Qualified down in Singapore? Accidentally gets the best strategy.
2nd in Japan because Mercedes mess up badly with Hamilton's strategy
Plan C in Mexico? Beats his previously race leading teammate whose strategy turns out to be worse.
 

How about Vettel losing 18 pts. in Sochi

or losing pole position in Mexico because of Bottas

or Leclerc not being penalized for 1st laps antics in Japan

or RBR not piting Albon in Mexico gifting Leclerc extra point?

 

Vettel was better in Leclerc in more races than vice versa and is still trailing in points. He couldnt finish already 4 qualies and one race due to bad luck, but yeah everything goes his way..

Edited by abc, 28 October 2019 - 16:16.

[jannyg]

Vettel has won at all the remaining tracks before

 

Verstappen finished on the podium at the remaining 3 races last season

 

Leclerc finished top2 in each of these in F1.5 last season.

 

Its honestly 50/50.

[Otaku]

I'm gonna go against most posters and say Verstappen.

[HeadFirst]

Voted Verstappen but momentum is not with him nor is the car at the moment compared to Ferrari. 

With his luck someone will probably drive him of the road again in the coming races. 

 

Max continues to put himself in vulnerable positions on-track. It's got nothing to do with luck, it's about poor choices.

[Atreiu]

Max has no chance.

 

I would prefer Vettel to be 3rd, but it seems more likely Leclerc will hang on to it.

[ArrowsLivery]

Hopefully Max but it seems like race control is happy for their golden boys to play bumper cars with him.

[BobbyRicky]

Max has no chance.

[Eff1]

I think Vettel, he has been quite strong recently and the last few circuits he usually goes well.

[Astandahl]

Vettel will win because Ferrari is always ****ing up Charles strategy. Happened in Singapore and in Mexico. In both of these races he would have probably won with a normal strategy.

[xtremeclock]

Vettel will win because Ferrari is always ****ing up Charles strategy. Happened in Singapore and in Mexico. In both of these races he would have probably won with a normal strategy.

 

Right because in Mexico Ferrari didn't screw Vettel....

 

Why pit @ L35 if you can drive into the Sainz/Gasly (backmarkers) battle @ L36 losing at the very least a couple of seconds, i guess it was part of a well executed plan to bring Sebastian in @ L38 in order to come out behind Albon 

 

https://streamable.com/l9lvr

Edited by xtremeclock, 28 October 2019 - 19:39.

[Astandahl]

Right because in Mexico Ferrari didn't screw Vettel....

 

Why pit @ L35 if you can drive into the Sainz/Gasly (backmarkers) battle @ L36 losing at the very least a couple of seconds, i guess it was part of a well executed plan to bring Sebastian in @ L38 in order to come out behind Albon 

 

https://streamable.com/l9lvr

Yes they screwed Vettel as well but not as much as they did with Charles

[Anderis]

A few races ago I mulled opening a thread about the battle for P2 including these three and Bottas. Good thing I didn't!

I remember at least one person insisting that Bottas has no chance for P2 this year around the time when Ferrari came good.

[1Devil1]

Vettel will win because Ferrari is always ****ing up Charles strategy. Happened in Singapore and in Mexico. In both of these races he would have probably won with a normal strategy.

 

Ferrari screwed Vettel in Russia with a DNF. He would lead Leclerc again in the points

[DutchQuicksilver]

Vettel seems to have the momentum now, so my bet is on him finishing third.

[Claymore25]

Verstappen doesn't have the car and it's in the middle of all problems. I don't think he would end better than 5th in normal conditions. He just need a Ferrari DNF.

 

Leclerc is a little inconsistent in race pace last races. I think this could be because of his inexperience at a top team.

 

Vettel is in the ascending curve despite the unlucky things he suffered like Sochi or Mexico qualy. I think he would end 3rd.

[GoldenColt]

Well, this one has taken an unexpected twist. Max looks set for P3 now.

[teejay]

Max has no chance.

 

Ouch

[Cliff]

Well considering the only reason Max wasn’t in 3rd, was because both Ferrari’s crashed him out at Silverstone and Suzuka, i’d say: Justice