842 replies to this topic

[JavierDeVivre]

Ah seriously? We just had a pretty cool qualifying and then we´re discussing a non-incident like this...?

People gotta shift the blame from Verstappen when he acts like a moron...

He's complaining about something that was entirely his own doing. When Hamilton got in front is irrelevant, he waa in front and attempting to pass them both there was a move that ended predictably.

Once again it was a nothing incident blown out of proportion because Lord Verstappen had to react to the actions of others.

[KevD]

So let me get this right. Max, the same driver who didn't care that he didn't slow down for a yellow flag last week, was so annoyed at Lewis this weekend because he didn't care about a gentleman's agreement by passing Max safely well before the end of the lap, so Max decided to show Lewis that he too didn't care by risking a collision with three cars?

 

So to summarise, the guy who broke an actual rule last week and was penalised got so pissed off yesterday at another guy, for not breaking a rule but breaking an unwritten agreement, that he was willing to break an actual rule (causing an avoidable collision) just to show the other guy.

 

And you're saying it's Lewis who "starts to do irrational things"?  Now I really have heard it all

 

Wow. You just needed a lot of words and 'historical context' to explain a situation where Lewis only managed p5 all by his own doing, while his teammate in the same car got pole and Max went to grabbing p3. If Lewis is really in Max' head maybe he sould consider pulling out again and start focusing on his own driving. This isn't doing him any good at all.

[ANF]

Just watched it. Max was asked by his engineer to slow down, so Hamilton went through. Happens very often on outlaps.

This was a long way before the start of the lap, non-issue IMO.

No idea what you're on about, I'm telling what I saw. Don't be a d*ck.

Watched the onboard of Hamilton too. Lewis was told he had plenty of time and that several cars would bunch up in the final sector but still he found it necessary to overtake both Verstappen and Kvyat. He let them pass him again before the final turn. No idea what he was thinking.

So Hamilton overtook Verstappen on their out lap, and Verstappen was furious and tried to retake the position in T19 or T20?

I found this quote on the internet: "During an interview in Dutch he later said: 'Well, everyone is accepting each others position but Lewis doesn’t care and just keeps on running. I don’t know what that is, arrogant? I just thought if you overtake me then **** you and I will **** up your lap too. Luckily this was not in Q3 but he just should not do this because this makes nobody happy.'"

Oh, here's a longer video. Verstappen was almost stationary after T15 and Hamilton just passed him: https://twitter.com/...4888960/video/1
It would have been great if the TV production team had shown a longer replay so the pictures made some ****ing sense.

Edited by ANF, 03 November 2019 - 11:26.

[Heyli]

People gotta shift the blame from Verstappen when he acts like a moron...

He's complaining about something that was entirely his own doing. When Hamilton got in front is irrelevant, he waa in front and attempting to pass them both there was a move that ended predictably.

Once again it was a nothing incident blown out of proportion because Lord Verstappen had to react to the actions of others.

And then there´s people who need to complain about Verstappen (or Hamilton) about everything of course, which then triggers people who need to defend again...

 

I´m sure your comment now again triggers 3-4 responses from people who need to defend Verstappen...

[KevD]

If you say stuff like this, you might look funny when Hamilton wins today and Max has a dnf . Saturday is only saturday. It will all be forgotten after tonight!

 

A dnf can happen of course, regardless the circumstances. And of course Lewis can win today. In that case: good for him. But that doesn't distract anything from the fact that yesterday he wasn't in the best of places if you ask me. 

 

But you're right, there will always be the next race. So lets just watch and enjoy 

[Sndr]

If this is your attitude why do you even watch racing? Everything is measured.  Everything.  Go watch gymnastics or ice skating where the OPINIONS of people give scores, not objective performance.  Jeeze.

 

go back, read the context or don't bother engaging.

[milestone 11]

Can we not have a build up thread that isn't fouled by this shite week in week out?

[Requiem84]

So Hamilton overtook Verstappen on their out lap, and Verstappen was furious and tried to retake the position in T19 or T20?

I found this quote on the internet: "During an interview in Dutch he later said: 'Well, everyone is accepting each others position but Lewis doesn’t care and just keeps on running. I don’t know what that is, arrogant? I just thought if you overtake me then **** you and I will **** up your lap too. Luckily this was not in Q3 but he just should not do this because this makes nobody happy.'"

Oh, here's a longer video. Verstappen was almost stationary after T15 and Hamilton just passed him: https://twitter.com/...4888960/video/1
It would have been great if the TV production team had shown a longer replay so the pictures made some ****ing sense.

I think that video makes it pretty clear that Lewis intentionally tried to screw Max’ lap.

Max is 1-2 seconds back from Kvyat, who is again 1-2 secs back of a Ferrari, and another Ferrari in front.

What was Lewis thinking? I’ll overtake Verstappen, get back on the brakes and queue up behind Kvyat?

There was zero reason to do what he did, as there were several cars in front of Kvyat and he would have had to back off anyway.

[ferrarista]

https://drive.google...=13&direction=a

courtesy of Juzh on the F1technical forum

Vettel (with PU3) still quite a bit faster in acceleration than Mercedes and RB and Leclerc (with PU2)

[JBJ]

So Hamilton overtook Verstappen on their out lap, and Verstappen was furious and tried to retake the position in T19 or T20?

I found this quote on the internet: "During an interview in Dutch he later said: 'Well, everyone is accepting each others position but Lewis doesn’t care and just keeps on running. I don’t know what that is, arrogant? I just thought if you overtake me then **** you and I will **** up your lap too. Luckily this was not in Q3 but he just should not do this because this makes nobody happy.'"

Oh, here's a longer video. Verstappen was almost stationary after T15 and Hamilton just passed him: https://twitter.com/...4888960/video/1
It would have been great if the TV production team had shown a longer replay so the pictures made some ****ing sense.

Accepting his position by not compromising Kvyat' lap you mean

[Synkro89]

Seems like Lewis and Max are living rent free in peoples heads by the look of this thread.

[ExEd]

Any chance we get a split thread over this nonsense please?

Lets give the chance to the drama queens to go and overreact on their own, rest of us is hard to navigate through trash 

just to be able to read/write over the upcoming race. 

Thanks 

[Whatisvalis]

There's a thread for Max and Lewis - if that's your thing please take it there.

[Anderis]

Can we not have a build up thread that isn't fouled by this shite week in week out?

There happens so little in terms of racing, pecking-order changes and surprising or memorable moments on the track that some half-controversial bit is one of the very few things people can actually talk about.

[P123]

Damn, Pirelli agrees with me on Albon's strategy being the best, so it must be wrong   

As ever, all tyres will last the same length of time and give the same performance.

[milestone 11]

There happens so little in terms of racing, pecking-order changes and surprising or memorable moments on the track that some half-controversial bit is one of the very few things people can actually talk about.

Put it in a dedicated thread then. I will then be in a position to avoid it like the plague that it is.

[CPR]

 

the amount McLaren has found compared to last year is nuts (all season long btw). Must be a bit comforting for Williams that it is possible, however difficult it may be.

 

If we take these numbers, turn them into percentages, and average them across the year, this is what we get (though here a positive number means an improvement):

Team         Quali (%)

Williams      -0.27

Racing Point   0.33

Haas           0.33

Ferrari        0.36

Mercedes       0.43

Red Bull       0.53

Renault        0.67

Alfa           1.02

Toro Rosso     1.06

McLaren        1.71

 

I wouldn't assume that McLaren's improvement would be easy to replicate. After all, the 2018 car had a specific aero issue rather than being flawed/poor overall. Fixing that one issue gave them a big boost. I don't get the impression that Williams are in a similar situation.

[Kalmake]

Damn, Pirelli agrees with me on Albon's strategy being the best, so it must be wrong   

A layman would think medium-soft is top 3 if soft-medium is top 1.

[MasterOfCoin]

I think that video makes it pretty clear that Lewis intentionally tried to screw Max’ lap.

Max is 1-2 seconds back from Kvyat, who is again 1-2 secs back of a Ferrari, and another Ferrari in front.

What was Lewis thinking? I’ll overtake Verstappen, get back on the brakes and queue up behind Kvyat?

There was zero reason to do what he did, as there were several cars in front of Kvyat and he would have had to back off anyway.

Did you not watch the Monza Qualy?.....This is happens all the time.....

[MinardiCrashDummy]

I'm hoping Vettel passes Bottas so we can see him fight for a win while also having to defend from Verstappen behind.

[robefc]

Put it in a dedicated thread then. I will then be in a position to avoid it like the plague that it is.

And all the teams will be surprised because their simulations showed something completely different...

[ARTGP]

I'm hoping Vettel passes Bottas so we can see him fight for a win while also having to defend from Verstappen behind.

 

Unless Vettel gets a bad start, just flipping through the starts in the last few years, it's quite easy for polesitter to get jumped here in USA even if he has a good start. If polesitter can't hug the inside line immediately, then 2nd place can just send it deep.  Kimi did it last year. Seb did it in either 2016 or 2017.  There isn't enough room with other cars to do over and under.

Edited by ARTGP, 03 November 2019 - 13:29.

[gillesfan76]

Wow. You just needed a lot of words and 'historical context' to explain a situation where Lewis only managed p5 all by his own doing, while his teammate in the same car got pole and Max went to grabbing p3. If Lewis is really in Max' head maybe he sould consider pulling out again and start focusing on his own driving. This isn't doing him any good at all.

 

No I was just pointing out how ridiculous your "Lewis doing irrational things" comment was. Why are you talking about Lewis' qualifying performance now? That was addressed in separate posts. Sound like you're trying to divert focus on something different to your ridiculous "Lewis doing irrational things" comment. Understandable but amateurish attempt at saving face. 

[gillesfan76]

So Hamilton overtook Verstappen on their out lap, and Verstappen was furious and tried to retake the position in T19 or T20?

I found this quote on the internet: "During an interview in Dutch he later said: 'Well, everyone is accepting each others position but Lewis doesn’t care and just keeps on running. I don’t know what that is, arrogant? I just thought if you overtake me then **** you and I will **** up your lap too. Luckily this was not in Q3 but he just should not do this because this makes nobody happy.'"

Oh, here's a longer video. Verstappen was almost stationary after T15 and Hamilton just passed him: https://twitter.com/...4888960/video/1
It would have been great if the TV production team had shown a longer replay so the pictures made some ****ing sense.

 

Whether Lewis did it intentionally or thought it was ok because Max was almost at a standstill just before Lewis passed him, who knows. It could have been misunderstanding, carelessness, intentional trying to get his tyres into temp, or intentional trying to screw over Max.

 

Let's just assume it was the worst-case intentional trying to screw over Max. Y'all are so focused on that part. For me, it's rather irrelevant. If Max passed Lewis safely and flipped him the bird as he went past, that would be in the same ballpark. Then we could all be wasting time discussing Lewis' possible unintentional pass (according to Lewis fans) or intentional screwing of Max (according to Max fans) and breaking of a so-called gentleman's agreement and whether that warrants Max assuming the worst and justifies him flipping the bird.

 

But that's not what happened. What happened is that Max got red mist and decided he would go after Lewis and be blinded to the scenario unfolding in front of him with Lewis fast approaching a slow driving Kvyat, going to the inside to pass him and Max trying to dive three abreast. This is the crux of the matter. Max's response was not even remotely commensurate to even an act by Lewis intentionally screwing him by ignoring a gentleman's agreement. All we need now is some forum member who also happens to be a risk management motorsport specialist phD coming in to tell us that Max had the whole situation under control and there was zero risk of contact there. 

 

It's not the first time we've seen Max lose control and it won't be the last no doubt. But he is young and it doesn't make him the devil incarnate either as long as he irons it out with age. But I do find it surprising that some of his fans have glossed over this and focused on the relative butterfly effect that started it, instead of the disproportionate tsunami of a d***head move that followed immediately in response.

Edited by gillesfan76, 03 November 2019 - 14:07.

[ARTGP]

Least favorite part of these "western" GPs is how late in the day they start....Lets get on with it!

[Marklar]

Least favorite part of these "western" GPs is how late in the day they start....Lets get on with it!

Big respect to those who have evening start times almost every race. I wouldnt be able do this.

[ANF]

Least favorite part of these "western" GPs is how late in the day they start....Lets get on with it!

Where's the race thread anyway?

[Paincake]

Race is pretty much after dinner time for me.... kinda like being able to sit down and relax after an entire day. I will say though there is something special about having to wake up very early just to watch a race, could just be me getting used to it.

[Marklar]

A fluorescent orange dome kerb has been installed on the concrete apron behind the Turn 8 apex kerb. A bit late..



https://twitter.com/...r><br>
 

Where's the race thread anyway?

I would do it, but I'm stuck on my phone until probably midway through the race.

[Paincake]

Allready imagining scenarios of a driver being forsed slightly wide having to go on the apex and flying into the air like Maverick. Could be my imagination but is that thing even safe?

[Lights]

Allready imagining scenarios of a driver being forsed slightly wide having to go on the apex and flying into the air like Maverick. Could be my imagination but is that thing even safe?

Don't worry. It's FIA approved.

[ANF]

A fluorescent orange dome kerb

doom kerb*

[Lights]

Least favorite part of these "western" GPs is how late in the day they start....Lets get on with it!

 

What I as a European mainly dislike about it is how while the race is over at 22:00, there's usually a lot I like to process and discuss post-race, and instead I have to get ready for bed so I can wake up on time for work on Monday.

 

Watching a race also energizes my brain a lot which makes me struggle to sleep soon after.

[SophieB]

Where's the race thread anyway?

 

I can see you've now found it but for others...

 

https://forums.autos...-2019-race-day/

[InSearchOfThe]

Least favorite part of these "western" GPs is how late in the day they start....Lets get on with it!

No bitching about start times. 

 

F1 revolves around GMT 75% of the season.

 

The rest of us adjust to 3/4 of the year. Get over it.

[ARTGP]

No bitching about start times. 

 

F1 revolves around GMT 75% of the season.

 

The rest of us adjust to 3/4 of the year. Get over it.

 

Are you an aussie by chance? lol.

Edited by ARTGP, 03 November 2019 - 16:13.

[InSearchOfThe]

No, a midwestern Yankee.

[danmills]

Late race is refreshing, put kids to bed, have a nice bath, gp on, antiques roadshow, gogglebox and bed.

[TF110]

Pass on the outside by Ham but Vettel is slow!

[screamingV16]

Hamilton wont be on the podium. Funny because many of his fans were saying they hope he does not win it at Mexico because he wont makethe podium and that they hope the title race goes to USA because he has a very good chance to win it. Yeah look how that turned out  Okay race is still tomorrow but know the way the season has panned out I'd bet he wont make podium.

 

This aged well, hope you didn't put any money on him not being on the podium

[jjcale]

For those who say there was nothing between LH and MV .... LH said they squashed the beef 

 

 

... which means there was a beef to be squashed.

 

MV needs to do like LH and make his dad just his dad, instead of his manager. 

[A3]

https://www.gpblog.c...g-the-week.html

"I spoke to Max before the race. We stood side by side on the grid. We kind of embraced each other," Hamilton said to Ziggo Sport. "I said something, he said something too and we left it behind. I have so much respect for that boy."

[SophieB]

Great, peace in the valley!