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Ross Brawn announces new technical regulations for 2021 [split]


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#101 OO7

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 17:50

Imagine trying to fix the problem of only few battles during the races  without reducing the lenght and width of the current cars. :drunk: :rotfl:

The size of the cars isn't much of the a problem.  The weight ..........., maybe, but the size, not really.



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#102 Beri

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 17:52

de Vries had enough points at the beginning of this season already - so maybe McLaren wouldn't have dropped him (or would have dropped after giving him aforementioned two FPs)


He is a Mercedes affiliated driver nowadays. So I guess he will get his fair shot of a free practice in a Mercedes.

#103 Myrvold

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 17:52

de Vries had enough points at the beginning of this season already - so maybe McLaren wouldn't have dropped him (or would have dropped after giving him aforementioned two FPs)

 

Good point. Hadn't thought of that.



#104 Anja

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 17:52

I was looking for that. They are still keeping the hugenormous cars? Spank my banana and call me a baboon, that sounds idiotic. But they have managed to get the cars heavier though :drunk:  :clap:

 

Yeah, that's not great. But at least they finally specified a maximum wheelbase length - 3600 mm, FWIW it's a bit shorter than in the current cars.

 

Ross was asked about this during the conference and only explained the reasons for weight. That's at least somewhat understandable. But no word about why the cars have to be so big. 



#105 Clatter

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 17:53

They'll adjust the DRS zone lengths.

 


Or will they? They rarely get it right anyway.

#106 OO7

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 17:53

The 2016 cars combined with tyres were the worst since i became a fan in the mid 90's and it produced the worst on track season i have ever seen.

Agreed.  The current cars are more raceable because of the tyres in my opinion.  I think 2016 cars with today's tyres or similar would produce better racing.



#107 Scotracer

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 17:53

Anyone checked the Halo geometry? Is it the same as 2019?



#108 TheGoldenStoffel

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 17:54

They'll adjust the DRS zone lengths.

 

It's still artificial racing as long as the car in front can't use it to defend. I can live with DRS if it were like a push to pass system where you have a limited number of uses but can use them whenever and wherever you want. As long as it's still the same system as in use today I'm firmly against it, no matter how long or short the zones are.


Edited by TheGoldenStoffel, 31 October 2019 - 17:54.


#109 OO7

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 17:55

I was looking for that. They are still keeping the hugenormous cars? Spank my banana and call me a baboon, that sounds idiotic. But they have managed to get the cars heavier though :drunk:  :clap:

Ross did confirm that the huge weight increases seen in recent times was predominately down to the hybrid PUs and to a lesser extent safety.



#110 Maisteri

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 17:59

Loved how they fitted the statement in the middle of the video by first advertising "the success" of V6 era thus remaining them unchanged. Maybe I got some vomit in my mouth but hey whatever makes them sleep at night.



#111 Clatter

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 18:03

I see they are restricting the number of exhausts to 6 per season. Anyone have any idea how many they currently use?

#112 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 18:05

Cars look out of proportion again like in 2009. Though, they’re not as ugly as the 2014 ones. Will probably take some time to get used to, like it was with the halo.

#113 OO7

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 18:07

It's still artificial racing as long as the car in front can't use it to defend. I can live with DRS if it were like a push to pass system where you have a limited number of uses but can use them whenever and wherever you want. As long as it's still the same system as in use today I'm firmly against it, no matter how long or short the zones are.

We're just going to have differ in our opinions then.  The 2021 cars without DRS around circuits for example like the Hungaroring, Singapore, Australia, Mexico, Spain, would be quite processional assuming "raceable" tyres and the new regs.



#114 Turboflame

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 18:09

It was already known the V6 would remain pretty much unchanged, but weren't there plans to allow for higher revs (18 000 limit in stead of 15 000)?

Did they come back from that?



#115 OO7

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 18:11

It was already known the V6 would remain pretty much unchanged, but weren't there plans to allow for higher revs (18 000 limit in stead of 15 000)?

Did they come back from that?

If it was ever a serious consideration (and I'm not sure it was), then yes  they came back from that.



#116 PayasYouRace

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 18:11

It's still artificial racing as long as the car in front can't use it to defend. I can live with DRS if it were like a push to pass system where you have a limited number of uses but can use them whenever and wherever you want. As long as it's still the same system as in use today I'm firmly against it, no matter how long or short the zones are.

 

I see it the exact opposite to you. A P2P type system is as artificial as it gets. At least DRS is only available to counter the very real aerodynamic problem it's supposed to be there to overcome. Sure, its implementation isn't great in most cases, but if the driver in front could use it to defend it would be even worse.



#117 Turboflame

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 18:14

If it was ever a serious consideration (and I'm not sure it was), then yes  they came back from that.

 

I know that in a lot of vids (social media) concerning the new rules when they were still in development, the reference to higher revs and more noise (extra 3 000 rpm) was being made as a serious option.


Edited by Turboflame, 31 October 2019 - 18:18.


#118 OO7

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 18:17

I know that in a lot of vids (social media) concerning the new rules when they were still in development, the reference to higher revs and more noise was being made.

I read those posts as well Turbo, but I do wonder how serious they were at the time or if it was just one of those suggestions thrown around.



#119 M66R

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 18:23

Cars look great. If the three racing is great people forget about the looks. Besides I'd take all the cars looking the same if it meant great racing with a variety of race winners and new champions

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#120 A3

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 18:28

Credit to Reddit:

Coincidence? I think not:
hK6wrlq.png?1

#121 boomn

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 18:32

I read those posts as well Turbo, but I do wonder how serious they were at the time or if it was just one of those suggestions thrown around.

Any increase in revs actually used would be the result of increased fuel flow limits, and that has always seemed unlikely to me given the pressures around limiting environmental impact and talks of increased hybrid focus or eventual electrification.  The cars are already topping out a couple thousand RPM under the limit due to the fuel restrictions


Edited by boomn, 31 October 2019 - 18:33.


#122 Pingguest

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 18:38

During FP3 cars will already be under Parc Ferme. That makes no sense and I can't expect much driving then.

#123 masa90

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 18:39

I am really worried about some of the rules. Just how can any teams really claim back mistakes made in pre season when amount of uppgrades on aero etc is reduced?



#124 JHSingo

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 18:40

To avoid being disappointed, I think it's best to treat these regulations with a healthy dose of skepticism. I remember the big 2009 rule change that was supposed to change F1 completely, and while it did shake up the competitive order for a little while, it didn't really deliver on everything they were aiming for.

 

It seems encouraging, but the proof of the pudding will be in the eating. It's just a pity we've got an unappetizing 2020 to sit through first before finding out how successful these regulations are. Watch this space, I guess...



#125 statman

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 18:44

scarbs snapping pictures of the windtunnel model from pressco:

 

Spoiler


#126 Kalmake

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 18:44

During FP3 cars will already be under Parc Ferme. That makes no sense and I can't expect much driving then.

Tyre testing is still needed. That's what it mainly is now anyway.



#127 statman

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 18:46

EIOGifSXsAAc0RS.jpg

EIOipgLXYAAF-ke.jpg



#128 OO7

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 18:48

During FP3 cars will already be under Parc Ferme. That makes no sense and I can't expect much driving then.

This doesn't included set-up changes, it's about preventing teams from introducing new (specification) parts.



#129 Turboflame

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 18:48

Too bad about the revs, the design of the new cars looks great, i have to admit. Even the halo seems better integrated and sleek within this design.



#130 djparky

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 18:49

Dont like the winglets over the front wheels, and shame they couldn't do something with that wretched halo...but probably looks better than the current lumps they're driving, and hopefully they will actually race each other

#131 jimjimjeroo

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 18:52

How many redundancies will be made??

#132 masa90

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 18:55

Also wow that driver protection tub looks almost 1996 level from some angles.

 

I hope we do not get more races, I think there is already too mayn of them. Devalues the single race too much in my opinion. Lets see, not much use in being able to follow if again one team is miles ahead the rest. Like majority of seasons since 2014.

 

Finnish news mentioned "side and rim led-panels"...

 

Wow that sounds absolutely awful. What are they thinking :( :(


Edited by masa90, 31 October 2019 - 18:56.


#133 PayasYouRace

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 19:01

scarbs snapping pictures of the windtunnel model from pressco:

 

 

EIOb5SIWkAATkUg.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Probably the most interesting shot. The way they've used the wheel hubs to have an extra bit of ground effect tunnel, which will work independent of ride height, should provide a bit of stability that a purely body mounted tunnel will not. Also interesting how the suspension is shrouded aerodynamically, and the lower rear wing will work with the tunnel to drive air through it.

 

 

 

 

EIOb5SVW4AY_4bR.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Another interesting shot, as it shows the flow conditioners on the entry to the tunnels, which was a feature of CART, Champcar and Indycar tunnels for so long, and should help provide a stable airflow through the tunnels no matter how the air is in front of the car.

 

 

 

 

 

EIOcABgWkAA9dPc.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

Front wing philosophy that should have been implemented ages ago. Even with the simplified wings this year, they're too complicated. This should be better. Nice and simple. I'm glad the central lifting section, a feature since 2009, has gone, as it means the Y250 vortex will be gone too, and that's one less thing the cars can abuse aerodynamically. Flow structures will be much simpler though there will be a bit more turbulence against the nose.

 

The rest is mostly just styling and won't have a huge effect but the swoopy endplates will provide fewer vortices too, as they limit the number of sharp edges and corners that can create them.



#134 Marklar

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 19:03

What the **** did these guys smoke
 

 

 

The new sporting regulations, published for the first time today, sets a limit on how many sets of front and rear pads each driver may use during a season. The limit is equal to the number of races in a season, which would allow drivers to use one new set of brake discs and pads per race.

If they exceed that limit, however, they will be given a three-place grid penalty for the first infraction, and a two-place grid penalty for any subsequent infractions in a season.

Front and rear sets of discs and pads are counted separately. Therefore if a driver exceeded the limit for their front and rear brakes at the same race they would incur a six-place grid penalty.

https://www.racefans...hanges-in-2021/


Edited by Marklar, 31 October 2019 - 19:04.


#135 Anderis

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 19:03

I'm glad to see that the changes have been pushed through. F1 needs big changes IMO. Are these new rules perfect? Maybe not, but if the alternative is that big teams push for the status quo and minimal changes, I'll take them any day of the week. I could not tolerate more seasons like 2019, I would give up on watching F1 if nothing changed.



#136 Tosh

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 19:04

This is the future... I guess. I don't like the sound and looks of it. If there is close racing I will get used to the new Formula but I have a feeling racing will be the same with new look (not a good one).



#137 pRy

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 19:05

Great news today.

 

When Ross Brawn took on his new role in F1 one of my hopes was that he would be given the power to implement the vision of himself and his advisors. I feared it wouldn't happen due to politics, vetos and past history. But it would appear Liberty and F1 have placed their faith in his vision and given him the power he required to make it happen. Let's hope they work.



#138 David Lightman

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 19:06

Please tell me those hideous wheel covers aren't mandatory? Team renders don't show them so hopefully they're optional?? McLaren looks awesome.



#139 Bloggsworth

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 19:09

Hadn't realised that the Hollywood FX departments designed F1 cars, are they renaming F1 "Tron - The Race Director's Cut"



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#140 AustinF1

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 19:14

Loved how they fitted the statement in the middle of the video by first advertising "the success" of V6 era thus remaining them unchanged. Maybe I got some vomit in my mouth but hey whatever makes them sleep at night.

Indeed.



#141 OO7

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 19:14

What the **** did these guys smoke
 

https://www.racefans...hanges-in-2021/

But Marklar, they're trying to reduce all the confusion with grid penalties!



#142 JHSingo

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 19:17

 

EIOipgLXYAAF-ke.jpg

 

Wheels look so much better uncovered. Let's not go back to the era of the ghastly bin lids, please...



#143 AustinF1

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 19:17

What the **** did these guys smoke
 

https://www.racefans...hanges-in-2021/

So now they'll have to manage brake pad & rotor wear as well as tires & fuel?

 

Oy. Wrong direction.


Edited by AustinF1, 31 October 2019 - 19:17.


#144 goldenboy

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 19:20

Looks good to me. All I really want is good racing now though. I stopped caring so much about aesthetics a long time ago.

Just give me good drivers having close battles and I'm good.

#145 Marklar

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 19:21

Can somebody explain to me why parc ferme will be in place for the start FP3? I get the point about having to commit to the bodywork before FP1 for cost reasons, but what exactly is the sense of having one practice session without even being able to change the set-up?



#146 Rjpscr

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 19:38

The car looks great, and just a great day for F1 to finally publish the 2021 regs :clap:. Just sucks we have to wait a whole another year haha.  Really really hoping with the cost cap and the regs the smaller midfield teams could finally take on the big 3 for podium spots.



#147 Piif

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 19:47

Looks really good. Let's hope Ferrari won't screw everyone over with their Bernie-era veto right. That one just sucks donkey balls.



#148 Scotracer

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 19:48

12.4.2 Secondary Roll Structure (Halo)

The secondary roll structure, which is not considered part of the survival cell, must be positioned symmetrically about the car centre plane with its front fixing axis at XC= -975 and Z=660. The mounting faces for the rearward fixings must lie on the plane Z=695.

The secondary roll structure must be to standard FIA8869-2018 and supplied by an FIA designated manufacturer. Details of the structure and its mountings may be found in the Appendix to the Technical Regulations.

 

Halo is the same standard piece as currently. Real shame - was hoping for a further-optimised design. 



#149 dweller23

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 19:54

Sounds like a lot of big changes. I don't like possibility of having 25 races. 21 is too many for me already, I usually tune out gradually after Singapore each year because I've got enough of F1. Doesn't mean I don't watch, but I don't mind missing vital parts of the races or entire quali for example. I'm sure I won't be able to watch 25 races per year, I know that the "don't like it then don't watch it" team is waiting for posts like that to patronize people, but whatever, that is far too much F1 for my liking. When we had 16 races per year, most of them were special, because there was no oversaturation of F1. Now it will be hard to remember races. Look at Spa this year, Croft reminded Brundle of Verstappen blocking aggressively Raikkonen couple years ago and Brundle said something along lines "yeah I don't remember these last seasons are a bit of a blur". And that feeling is gonna get even more magnified with 25 races per year. That's almost half of years weekends when you have F1...



#150 AustinF1

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 20:06

Another nice McLaren 2021 shot...

 

Spoiler


Edited by AustinF1, 31 October 2019 - 20:10.