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Roger Penske buys Indycar, Indianapolis Motor Speedway


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#301 Risil

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Posted 14 November 2019 - 22:47

Thanks, the wife and I are moving to that area in the next few months. Leaving CA after a lifetime here, with thousands of others.


Best of luck with the move WW!

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#302 FLB

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Posted 14 November 2019 - 23:13

My second most favourite story about '96 entered cars must be the Loophole entry. A Lola T91/00-Buick. (thus a chassis of 5 years old)

The car could be traced back to once have been one of the Pat Pattrick/Alfacorse Lola-Alfa's of 1991. From then on its history becomes tricky but the monocoque has been used to built a Pikes-Peak special hillclimber around it! It reportedly did participate at Pikes peak too one year.
I don't put the following link down to brag with the piece it refers to. But over there I describe what I could find out about this particular Loophole Racing car and why there are also reasons to doubt the identification I made.
If interested for more details, the part about this Loophole Racing entry can be found at the bottom of the piece in question. it is the paragraph Footnote 2
http://8w.forix.com/indy96.html
 

Do you know where I could find good pictures of the complete car? The only ones I can find are were taken after Drinan pancaked the wall..



#303 Henri Greuter

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 07:00

Do you know where I could find good pictures of the complete car? The only ones I can find are were taken after Drinan pancaked the wall..


My suggestion would be to contact the IMS photoshop. They have pictures 9 out of 10 possible combinations of cars & drivers.

#304 Ali_G

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 07:10

They say TG lost the Hulman George family about a billion by his idiocy. This is the result.

#305 Marklar

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 09:51

Apparently there have been talks between Daimler and Penske to buy the Mercedes F1 team.

https://f1-insider.c...r-nure-vorerst/

Is Penske the new Disney?

#306 Henri Greuter

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 10:01

Apparently there have been talks between Daimler and Penske to buy the Mercedes F1 team.

https://f1-insider.c...r-nure-vorerst/

Is Penske the new Disney?



most shocking in this article for me: If my German is correct; do I understand it right that there is talk about Mercedes offering engines to RedBull from 2021 on?????

#307 Risil

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 10:53

Wouldn't that be something!

#308 Beri

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 10:55

most shocking in this article for me: If my German is correct; do I understand it right that there is talk about Mercedes offering engines to RedBull from 2021 on?????


That would be if Honda doesn't continue, there is a backup plan for Red Bull. Any other case would be nuts!

#309 B Squared

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 11:08

Makes you wonder what the provenance is on the white IROC RSR in Penske's museum.

Very likely the car that Mark won the Riverside IROC round in.

https://www.pbase.com/image/74873973

Also, best wishes on the move. My Mom grew up in the Santa Barbara area but has no desire to return, as she says, "I prefer to remember home as it was growing up." A cousin is in Shell Beach (Pismo Beach area), she's about had it too.

Edited by B Squared, 15 November 2019 - 11:09.


#310 Ali623

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 11:10

That would be if Honda doesn't continue, there is a backup plan for Red Bull. Any other case would be nuts!

 

Unless Red Bull do it by choice. Honda to take over Toro Rosso/Alpha Tauri?



#311 Beri

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 11:14

Unless Red Bull do it by choice. Honda to take over Toro Rosso/Alpha Tauri?


That would make for some amazing silly season stories.

#312 Afterburner

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 15:53

Apparently there have been talks between Daimler and Penske to buy the Mercedes F1 team.

https://f1-insider.c...r-nure-vorerst/

Is Penske the new Disney?

B3z0kSy.png
(thanks Frood)

#313 whitewaterMkII

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 16:41

Apparently there have been talks between Daimler and Penske to buy the Mercedes F1 team.

https://f1-insider.c...r-nure-vorerst/

Is Penske the new Disney?

Throw in as part of the deal, Penske's IndyCar team for Mercedes to get a foothold here against McLaren.

That would put a stop to collusion/conspiracy talk.



#314 paulb

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 20:22

Thanks, the wife and I are moving to that area in the next few months. Leaving CA after a lifetime here, with thousands of others.

Good luck on the move. I left CA for FL 3 years ago for work reasons. I miss family and mexican food, thats it. You will at least have good mexican food at your destination.

#315 Jim Thurman

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 20:35

Aside from the ever increasing cost of living, I can't think of any reason to leave California. It's my home. It's where I will die* I won't, and don't, let political reasons or viewpoints enter into the equation.

 

*unless those costs/expenses force a move, which would be heartbreaking to me.



#316 paulb

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 20:57

^I can’t afford to move back. I understand why people choose to stay.

#317 prommer

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 21:04

Same here. I'd still be there in a heartbeat, if I could afford it.

 

#lasvegasiscaliforniaadjacent

 

#penskecontent


Edited by prommer, 15 November 2019 - 21:05.


#318 whitewaterMkII

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 22:47

Aside from the ever increasing cost of living, I can't think of any reason to leave California. It's my home. It's where I will die* I won't, and don't, let political reasons or viewpoints enter into the equation.

 

*unless those costs/expenses force a move, which would be heartbreaking to me.

Thought pretty much the same thing Jim, I retired after 40+ years working here, had 4 nice properties, but once you retire, especially like I did, no pension, and solely living off the hump I built scrupulously , you start noticing the absurd taxes we pay.

I get up in the morning to piss.

Flip on the lights. Taxed.Electricity

Piss. Taxed, for a sewage system, and I'm on septic.

Flush. Taxed.Water

Flip on the coffee maker.Taxed.Twice. Water and Power. Actually, make that four times, state tax on the coffee, and city tax on the coffee.

This goes on all freakin' day, week, month, year.

Here's another great one just hit us a week or so ago.

I own 2-1/2 acres out by Joshua Tree National Park, bought it from a cousin years ago. The property tax has been a whopping 20 bucks a year, it's extremely remote, no road access and it's covered in cactus.

I get the tax statement and there is now a 160. dollar 'fee' on it in addition to the tax for 'State Fire Services'. This is theft, there is no way any fire truck could get near this property, there is nothing to burn on this property, the property is essentially worthless. The total accessed value is around 1500. bucks. So in less than ten years I'll have paid more tax on this property than it is worth.

Fvck California. Fortunately I already have  two places in Arizona, one on the Colorado River so I can run at least one of my vehicles (an 18' jet boat) with unlimited horsepower and zero smog controls on water where there are zero speed limits. Yay. The other is small place in Quatzsite where my wife and I spend part of the winter selling minerals, fossils and gems while living in the dirt with our fellow miner friends from around the world.Yay again.

So far we've sold two of our places here, we'll probably buy something in either Buckeye of Wickenburg in the next couple months and once settled, we'll sell our last couple of places here in Cali. Can't wait, I'm totally sick of getting screwed dry without even a kiss by this state any longer. As much as it's given me and as beautiful as it is I'm done with paying taxes for others benefits, while I'm getting nothing, will get nothing and have never asked for anything. <rant over>   :blush:



#319 Jim Thurman

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 00:16

Since I've been sick, busy and busy being sick, I finally have time to address Henri's posts...

 

Hindsight....

Penske was one of the most powerful people who was behind CART becoming a reality. USAC stood for dirt track racing as well and that was about the last thing Roger wanted to have anything to do with. he even wanted one of his drivers who kept on racing in such cars to quit them, regrettably he didn't and he paid some hefty price for that.

I think that split had to happen eventually. But what I never understood was back in '94 and '95 you could see the CART/IRL split coming and nobody did anything anymore to prevent it, Do 1995 together and then we finally can go our own ways.

 

As Brian wrote, Roger Penske's concerns were over one of his regular drivers being injured while racing a dirt schedule of his own volition (basically, he violated his contract over Roger's objections, and that driver later admitted his regret in doing so). Henri, please don't go by some misinformed louts over at another message board that blame Roger Penske for everything. There is absolutely no evidence to support claims that Roger Penske instigated, or had any part in, USAC dropping the dirt mile races from the Championship. The truth is that the tobacco company sponsorship led to a schedule made up solely of paved oval races, much along the lines of what happened at the same time with NASCAR and a competing tobacco sponsor. Worse, many of these unfounded charges against Penske seem to have been revisionist tit-for-tat. People were saying bad things about Tony George, so his partisans had to create bad things to say about someone on the opposite side (sadly, a preview of what has happened in U.S. politics in the time since). I'm also not aware of Roger Penske being anti-dirt track in any way, shape or form. Roger even inducted Ralph Pratt into the National Midget Auto Racing Hall of Fame, a driver he watched race midgets on a dirt track when he was a youngster. He said Ralph Pratt was an early hero of his. 

 

The '95 split had rumblings and saber-rattling earlier, but nothing came of it. The timeline got rushed along after 1994, when ESPN was proselytizing daily about how there might not be enough cars to fill the 33-car field, lamenting that short track dirt stars like Jeff Gordon and Tony Stewart weren't getting drives and (some) complaining about "foreigners" in place of drivers like Jeff Gordon and Tony Stewart. They, along with certain publications, incited this, with a mantra of: "We lost Jeff, we can't lose Tony." Oddly, this seemed the exact point when Tony George felt a need to finally take action and quickly create the IRL. Coincidence? I think not. 

 

You're right of course that Indy was not on dirt and USAC's showcase.
But given for how long Dirt tracks were part of the National championship and, once separated, USAC still had such a strong commitment to keep both Indy and the series it belonged to afloat and still promote the dirttrack kind of racing. And I only have the Carl Hungness yearbooks to base my feelings upon. But it appeared as if USAC still wanted to support Dirtcar racing instead of using feeder series on pavement as training school for the new generation of drivers for the future at IMS. I think there is a big chance you can tell from personal experience as of how people like Rebaque, Sillivan, Smiley and others who cam to Indy through different formulae than the Sprinters and midgets were looked upon.

And, telling, despite it being so prominent for USAC: Roger never was involved with Sprinters and non-pavement material during the 70s.

 

USAC sanctioned those forms of racing, but didn't promote it (I think I know what you mean here though). USAC did sanction, or at least joint sanction with SCCA, Super Vees as a support class/feeder series. In the U.S., the SCCA sanctioned road racing and the other formulas. USAC sanctioned plenty of asphalt racing, in all divisions, but to put it bluntly (and something that the diehards over at another forum can't see for their partisanship) USAC mismanaged damned near everything they touched. As Robin Miller put it (paraphrasing): "USAC's forte was in 30-lap midget or sprint races, and sometimes they didn't even do that very well." By the time of the late 70s split, midgets were declining, the USAC sprint division had faded and would quickly fade even more, with the World of Outlaws taking that mantle, the USAC stock car series - which they never seemed to know how to run - had exclusive contacts with the best, newest superspeedways and had Indianapolis drivers and future NASCAR stars among its ranks, and somehow they managed to muck that up, and the stock car division ended in 1984. This is the sort of consistent shortsightedness USAC excelled at.

 

Blame my lack of knowledge about USA racing other than Indy in that years if I see things wrong. I don't mind a discussion about all of that and learn more about it from people like you with personal experiences of that time. But if this thread is the right place?

 

I don't know if its' the right place either, but since this is where it was brought up...here it is  :wave:



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#320 PayasYouRace

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 00:27

Who was this mysterious Penske driver who was injured in a dirt track race?



#321 Cynic2

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 00:44

Who was this mysterious Penske driver who was injured in a dirt track race?

 

Gary Bettenhausen, son of Indy 500 legend Tony Bettenhausen.  While driving for Penske he was injured in a dirt track race in 1974, pretty much losing the use of his right arm and killing his career.



#322 B Squared

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 01:20

I think the dangers of Sprint Cars was his main concern for Gary and that certainly proved true. USAC's showcase was the Indianapolis 500, to my knowledge it was not run on dirt. It is true that the dirt tracks were part of USAC.

Payas - Sorry that I didn't write out Bettenhausen in this post. Sometimes I take the historical knowledge for granted.

#323 TecnoRacing

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 01:40

I do have a Carousel1 model of Bettenhausen's '72 McLaren. I missed out on the Donohue car (I prefer race winners of cars that are available in different colors and years) but I wanted to have an M16B in Sunoco colors and if I couldn't get a Donohue anymore, then it had to be a Bettenhausen one as  `my` M16B among the Carousels. Given the fact that (even today) I have a sweet spot for Gary, I can live without the Donohue car because of having the '72 #7 instead to full the gap.

 

Just a heads up if you were unaware - the 1:18 '72 Donohue winner has been reproduced and is available again via Replicarz:

 

https://www.replicar...ctinfo/R184827/



#324 Henri Greuter

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 11:17

Since I've been sick, busy and busy being sick, I finally have time to address Henri's posts...

 

 

As Brian wrote, Roger Penske's concerns were over one of his regular drivers being injured while racing a dirt schedule of his own volition (basically, he violated his contract over Roger's objections, and that driver later admitted his regret in doing so). Henri, please don't go by some misinformed louts over at another message board that blame Roger Penske for everything. There is absolutely no evidence to support claims that Roger Penske instigated, or had any part in, USAC dropping the dirt mile races from the Championship. The truth is that the tobacco company sponsorship led to a schedule made up solely of paved oval races, much along the lines of what happened at the same time with NASCAR and a competing tobacco sponsor. Worse, many of these unfounded charges against Penske seem to have been revisionist tit-for-tat. People were saying bad things about Tony George, so his partisans had to create bad things to say about someone on the opposite side (sadly, a preview of what has happened in U.S. politics in the time since). I'm also not aware of Roger Penske being anti-dirt track in any way, shape or form. Roger even inducted Ralph Pratt into the National Midget Auto Racing Hall of Fame, a driver he watched race midgets on a dirt track when he was a youngster. He said Ralph Pratt was an early hero of his. 

 

The '95 split had rumblings and saber-rattling earlier, but nothing came of it. The timeline got rushed along after 1994, when ESPN was proselytizing daily about how there might not be enough cars to fill the 33-car field, lamenting that short track dirt stars like Jeff Gordon and Tony Stewart weren't getting drives and (some) complaining about "foreigners" in place of drivers like Jeff Gordon and Tony Stewart. They, along with certain publications, incited this, with a mantra of: "We lost Jeff, we can't lose Tony." Oddly, this seemed the exact point when Tony George felt a need to finally take action and quickly create the IRL. Coincidence? I think not. 

 

 

USAC sanctioned those forms of racing, but didn't promote it (I think I know what you mean here though). USAC did sanction, or at least joint sanction with SCCA, Super Vees as a support class/feeder series. In the U.S., the SCCA sanctioned road racing and the other formulas. USAC sanctioned plenty of asphalt racing, in all divisions, but to put it bluntly (and something that the diehards over at another forum can't see for their partisanship) USAC mismanaged damned near everything they touched. As Robin Miller put it (paraphrasing): "USAC's forte was in 30-lap midget or sprint races, and sometimes they didn't even do that very well." By the time of the late 70s split, midgets were declining, the USAC sprint division had faded and would quickly fade even more, with the World of Outlaws taking that mantle, the USAC stock car series - which they never seemed to know how to run - had exclusive contacts with the best, newest superspeedways and had Indianapolis drivers and future NASCAR stars among its ranks, and somehow they managed to muck that up, and the stock car division ended in 1984. This is the sort of consistent shortsightedness USAC excelled at.

 

 

I don't know if its' the right place either, but since this is where it was brought up...here it is  :wave:

 

Jim,

 

Thanks for the time invested and the insights and knowledge shared. Appreciate that, and I got the feeling in the replies that preceeded this one, so did others.

You brought up a few good things I wasn't aware off. Thanks.

Like you say, it brought up here, left here by the Mods, so maybe it is a good enough place after all.

Get well soon!

 

For the record:

- As for the '79  USAC-CART split, As for the CART related piece of the blame, I don't blame this one to Roger Penske alone, he was one of  a few prominent team owners at that time who was involved. So as at best (worst :well:  ) he shares it. But given his field of interest and activities, I can't blame these men for trying what they did.

 

- As for the CART-IRL(&USAC???) IRL split, I haven't found a decent answer yet on the question in how much Tony George was influenced by members of the more traditional USAC inspired people like AJ Foyt, Carey Agajanian etc when he made up his mind about going his own way. The more that would be the case, the less blame I can give Tony for his actions.

 

- I know what you mean with `the other forum` and I am one of the ex-members who left it years ago after being bullied off one time too much. Freefighting with fanboys over here within F1 topics is one thing, dealing with some of the rednecks over there take different kind of skills, and levels of knowledge about certain subjects and most of all, blind admiration for some Demi-Gods and Holy Houses of which I don't posess enough to dare give it a try another time.


Edited by Henri Greuter, 16 November 2019 - 11:18.


#325 Henri Greuter

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 11:55

Gary Bettenhausen, son of Indy 500 legend Tony Bettenhausen.  While driving for Penske he was injured in a dirt track race in 1974, pretty much losing the use of his right arm and killing his career.

 

 

Payas - Sorry that I didn't write out Bettenhausen in this post. Sometimes I take the historical knowledge for granted.

 

 

And then to remember that Gary got off better than his brother Merle in an Indycar crash. In his very first Indycar race (Michigan '72) Merle had an accident and lost his right arm. Gary still kept his arm after the Sprinter accident though it was of only very limited use for him.

 

 

 

I have my own personal moment with Gary which at the time made me feel bad for causing it but later on was Okayed and cherished.

 

People familiar with the speedway at that time might remember a few details of the following story

 

 

My firtst Indy was '88 and both at the photo shop as well as in one of the rooms under the grandstand on the opposite side of the old media room there was a little outlet of IMS Photos pictures. Not perfect prints by the Photos Dept sold off cheap.

Now one of the for me alltime most heroic drives ever at Indy was Gary's 1980 race, in which he was the slowest qualifier in a `stepchild` entry for which he had to provide his own crew and was not expected to get far in the race but at least he was in the show. The car was powered by a by now obsolete Offy fourclinder. And then he finished third, the last ever driver who completed the full race distance with an Offy engine.

I had found a picture of Gary in that car in the gift shop under the grandstand the Monday  correction Tuesday  after Bump Day and bought it. Then an hour or so later we ran into a little group of people, among them: Gary Bettenhausen! Now Gary was not very happy, having failed to qualify that year.

My friends, having seen that I had bought that picture (and knowing why) then told Gary that I was from the Netherlands ( blablaba ) and I had the chance to talk with him very briefly, since my English was not very good at that time. Then I dared to ask him if I could ask his autograph on a picture of him.

In short, he did it but I felt so ashamed when I saw how difficult it was for him to handle the picture and the fineliner at the same time. So I apologized for the inconvenience. And he replied it was OK. Because of my bad English I dared not to say anything else anymore. Then one of my friends then told Gary how I had explained in the photoshop why I had bought that particular picture. Gary then began to talk about that year and told that the car was still one of his favourite rides ever. When I got the picture back from him I could only say: "Thank you, I appreciate this very much" but I will never forget that radiant smile of him when he replied: "You're welcome, enjoy your time over here." and offered his had to shake mine.

When we left my friends told me that with hindsight, I better should not have asked for Gary to sign that picture, given his condition. But all of them had the feeling that Gary was OK with it because of me being a foreigner who knew him and one of his biggest achievements at the speedway and rating it as high enough to actually buy a qualifying picture of it. All of this being worth the efforts he had to do for it.

 

 

EDIT: I must correct myself here: It was not in my first year at Indy '88 that this happened but my second time, one year later in 1989.

Sorry for the confusion.

EndEDIT

 

I had a lot of incredible moments and memories that first year '88 and this is one of the best, also because of other theing that happened within that company that day but those are private....  :)

 

Fotunately, I had the chance to be there when Gary had one of the other highlights of his career at Indy, when he became the fastest qualifier in the 1991 field.


Edited by Henri Greuter, 16 November 2019 - 16:43.


#326 Henri Greuter

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 11:57

Just a heads up if you were unaware - the 1:18 '72 Donohue winner has been reproduced and is available again via Replicarz:

 

https://www.replicar...ctinfo/R184827/

 

Thanks for the info. But I think that I don't need it anymore and can live more thatn wgood enough with my Gary version.. The story above has something to do with that.



#327 paulb

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 12:14

Henri, thanks for sharing that beautiful story.

#328 FLB

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 12:48

My suggestion would be to contact the IMS photoshop. They have pictures 9 out of 10 possible combinations of cars & drivers.

Henri, one of the reasons I ask is because I spent most of the 2004 Fast Friday at the Photoshop (it was raining). I looked in the big McQueeney books (wthout him around to answer questions, though) and I couldn't find anything of the full car.



#329 B Squared

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 13:05

And then to remember that Gary got off better than his brother Merle in an Indycar crash. In his very first Indycar race (Michigan '72) Merle had an accident and lost his right arm. Gary still kept his arm after the Sprinter accident though it was of only very limited use for him.

Merle was at the release of Michael Argetsinger's An American Racer: Bobby Marshman and the Indianapolis 500, at the IMS Museum on Carb Day this past May. He was very friendly and seemed to have a nice evening. With all that he and the Bettenhausen family has been through over the years, it speaks well of the inner strength that must have been in the genes of this family of racers.

#330 FLB

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 13:29

Imagine having a young family, the schedule of an IndyCar mech (with a full season coming with MSR and Jack Harvey)… and a 27 year-old wife diagnosed with cancer...

 

https://www.indystar...cer/2566535001/



#331 B Squared

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 14:14

^ It's stories like this that continue to make me realize that I haven't been through a thing in comparison. No wife, no kids, never nauseous during my 5-6 months of chemo, never lost my appetite - I can't even imagine...

#332 paulb

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 14:44

Imagine having a young family, the schedule of an IndyCar mech (with a full season coming with MSR and Jack Harvey)… and a 27 year-old wife diagnosed with cancer...

https://www.indystar...cer/2566535001/

She has a lot going for her to support recovery. His business is cool, turning racing car bits into functional art, www.secondshiftart.com.

#333 Henri Greuter

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 14:58

Henri, thanks for sharing that beautiful story.

 

My pleasure Paul, I'm glad to see people like such personal stories.

 

Maybe because of my European background I `love` Indy in a way differen mammer that American race fans and Hoosiers in particular. But at my own manner, the Speedway, the event, so much about it is very dear to me and I feel lucky for having had over there.

And I cherish the lifetime friends I've made over there ever since.



#334 FLB

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 15:08

My pleasure Paul, I'm glad to see people like such personal stories.

 

Maybe because of my European background I `love` Indy in a way differen mammer that American race fans and Hoosiers in particular. But at my own manner, the Speedway, the event, so much about it is very dear to me and I feel lucky for having had over there.

And I cherish the lifetime friends I've made over there ever since.

Jean Graton made a lot of racing fans through Michel Vaillant, didn't he?



#335 Henri Greuter

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 15:21

Jean Graton made a lot of racing fans through Michel Vaillant, didn't he?

 

You bet!

But I think he made few fans of Indycar and Indy in the process but I am one of them.

 

Merle was at the release of Michael Argetsinger's An American Racer: Bobby Marshman and the Indianapolis 500, at the IMS Museum on Carb Day this past May. He was very friendly and seemed to have a nice evening. With all that he and the Bettenhausen family has been through over the years, it speaks well of the inner strength that must have been in the genes of this family of racers.

 

 

I met Merle twice in 2016, once at the Old Timers Club (Was permitted to accompany a member who belonged to the club) and the second time when the Bettenhausen book was sold the day before the race. And that was the second time when I had a Bettenhausen family member setting an autograph for me.(In the book). He was eager to find out what I could tell him about the exploits of his dad in '57 with the Novi in both Indy and Monza. Regrettably that wasn't too much in addition to what was mentioned in Vol.One. But being asked by him about what I might still might have learned about his dad ever since the book was published, that was a weird esperience.

I second your opinion on the strenghts and the genes of the Bettenhausens. If there is one dynasty that literally sacrified live and limb to racing and the "500" ...



#336 Henri Greuter

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 15:31

Henri, one of the reasons I ask is because I spent most of the 2004 Fast Friday at the Photoshop (it was raining). I looked in the big McQueeney books (wthout him around to answer questions, though) and I couldn't find anything of the full car.

 

OK, I see.

The archives are digital nowadays and maybe you have a better chance to find something?

I doubt if Drinan got much attention from people and photographers to begin with. Though there are people who just loved those weird cars that appeared only briefly or in different trims.

 

That very same year 1991 I made a picture of Roberto Guerrero in a Pattrick Lola-Alfa backup car and from the next day on the car appeared in other colors. When I worked on the '90 March-Alfa project published on 8W I was asked for help about the 91 cars and when I forwarded the picture I made of Roberto he initially refused to believe that car to be a '91 Lola-Alfa since he had never seen a picture of that trim before. Even IMS had not provided it to him.

So it can happen that they miss a certain car&driver combo.



#337 B Squared

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 15:33

Maybe because of my European background I `love` Indy in a way differen mammer that American race fans and Hoosiers in particular. But at my own manner, the Speedway, the event, so much about it is very dear to me and I feel lucky for having had over there.
And I cherish the lifetime friends I've made over there ever since.


Easy now mate...  ;)

Next time you attend, we need to make sure to meet.

#338 B Squared

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 15:40

"Thanks to Joe Freeman, I received my copy of Mike's book on Bobby Marshman. An excellent book. It was also great to see Marya once again at the Friday night reception for this year's symposium; it had been too long and we had much to catch up on. Plus, it is great to see Brian given his much deserved recognition by Michael for his help and support with the book. Along with Kevin Hughey and Bill Green, Brian played an important role in Mike's writing the book. We should be thankful to Brian for his role in making the book go from idea to reality."

From Don Capps in the TNF book thread - self-serving I know, but I really appreciate Don's endorsement of Michael's Marshman book and his nice personal comments..

Edited by B Squared, 16 November 2019 - 15:41.


#339 Henri Greuter

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 15:44

Easy now mate...  ;)

Next time you attend, we need to make sure to meet.

 

"Back home in Indiana" is my second National Anthem.should Indiana leave the Union....  :)

 

Seriously: Over the years I have watched the race at the house of a friend of me who has seen even more 500s than I have. In a company of about 15 or so man, we are the only two wha have to stand shoulder to shoulder in the back of the room to avoid others seeing our silent tears of emotion.

I know what Eddie Sachs went through.

 

You are one of the people who will be aware when I fly over again.



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#340 B Squared

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 15:51

"Back home in Indiana" is my second National Anthem.should Indiana leave the Union....  :)


I've told friends and family that when it's time to put me in a box, I want this song played at my funeral.

#341 Henri Greuter

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 16:19

 

 

 

 

I have my own personal moment with Gary which at the time made me feel bad for causing it but later on was Okayed and cherished.

 

Snip

 

I had a lot of incredible moments and memories that first year '88 and this is one of the best, also because of other theing that happened within that company that day but those are private....  :)

 

Fotunately, I had the chance to be there when Gary had one of the other highlights of his career at Indy, when he became the fastest qualifier in the 1991 field.

 

 

I must correct myself. The event took place as I described it but it wasn't one of my many '88 experiences. It happened one year later after qualifying in 1989.

The approval of that?

In case you want to see the picture Gary signed for me, I used it in a chapter witin my March 90CA-Alfa piece on 8W, apart from the autograph Gary had added the year he signed it, 1989.

You can find the picture over here, at about 3/4th of the page      http://8w.forix.com/...ca-patrick.html

So though I'm a year off with the story as I wrote it, it truly happened like that.

 

Sorry for the confusion but the truth needs to be told, I was a year off.



#342 red stick

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 16:58

"Thanks to Joe Freeman, I received my copy of Mike's book on Bobby Marshman. An excellent book. It was also great to see Marya once again at the Friday night reception for this year's symposium; it had been too long and we had much to catch up on. Plus, it is great to see Brian given his much deserved recognition by Michael for his help and support with the book. Along with Kevin Hughey and Bill Green, Brian played an important role in Mike's writing the book. We should be thankful to Brian for his role in making the book go from idea to reality."

From Don Capps in the TNF book thread - self-serving I know, but I really appreciate Don's endorsement of Michael's Marshman book and his nice personal comments..

 

Self-serving?  Or guide

to particular info

of great pertinence?

 

 

Potato.  Potahhhhto.



#343 red stick

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 16:58

 ;)



#344 Jim Thurman

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 18:00

Gary Bettenhausen, son of Indy 500 legend Tony Bettenhausen.  While driving for Penske he was injured in a dirt track race in 1974, pretty much losing the use of his right arm and killing his career.

 

SInce I was one of three folks who failed to mention Gary Bettenhausen, let me fill in a bit. The accident happened during pre-race practice for the 100-mile USAC Dirt Car Championship race on the one mile dirt oval at the New York State Fairgrounds in Syracuse on July 4, 1974. This series ran the same type of upright, front-engined cars that ran the dirt portion of the USAC Championship through 1970, being split off into their own separate series beginning in 1971. Bettenhausen flipped in turn 1, went over the barrier and into the roof of an unoccupied refreshment stand, before rolling back onto the barrier and track. He suffered two broken collarbones, a broken left shoulder blade, a fractured rib, fractured the orbital bone around his left eye, a bruised right lung, a broken right thumb that was nearly severed, and nerve damage to his right arm. So, yes, it was quite bad. It was the severe nerve damage that limited use of his arm and hindered his post-accident career. All of which is why Gary Bettenhausen was rightfully proud of his drive in the 1980 Indianapolis 500 that Henri mentioned. He joked that if there was a way to stitch he and brother Merle together, they'd have two good arms between them.

 

FWIW, Al Unser edged Mario Andretti to win the race at Syracuse that day, so it still wasn't uncommon for some of the top Indy drivers to compete in major dirt track races.

 

Payas - Sorry that I didn't write out Bettenhausen in this post. Sometimes I take the historical knowledge for granted.

 

I didn't take historical knowledge for granted, but since Brian and Henri seemed to know, I followed their lead and neglected to add it. Apologies for that. EDIT: Added date of event.


Edited by Jim Thurman, 16 November 2019 - 21:57.


#345 B Squared

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Posted 17 November 2019 - 11:37

Roger Penske has told Robin Miller the report of his potential purchase of the Mercedes-Benz F1 team is “absolutely not true, and my plate is full”.

https://racer.com/20...ut-speculation/

#346 djparky

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Posted 17 November 2019 - 12:16

Penske knows F1 is a bottomless money pit, there is no way he will want to spend $175m a year on it under the new rules.

#347 eibyyz

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Posted 18 November 2019 - 02:07

Roger Penske has told Robin Miller the report of his potential purchase of the Mercedes-Benz F1 team is “absolutely not true, and my plate is full”.

https://racer.com/20...ut-speculation/

 

Regarding speculation, it is the job of a principal, or an investor relations person, to say "no" ten times an hour, for as long as necessary, until it is time to say "yes".  And to not apologize for saying 'no'.

 

Is Rajah going into F1?  Maybe.  Would it be a good thing if he did?  IMO, no.  

My big question is what are his intentions vis-a-vis Formula E?


Edited by eibyyz, 18 November 2019 - 02:07.


#348 jonpollak

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Posted 18 November 2019 - 02:20

PR speak aside.... RP ain’t buying Merc.

He’s way too smart for that.

Jp

#349 loki

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Posted 18 November 2019 - 04:21

Penske’s not buying Mercedes F1.  Tony George is...



#350 prommer

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Posted 18 November 2019 - 05:12

Penske’s not buying Mercedes F1.  Tony George is...

 

  :rotfl:  :rotfl:  :rotfl:

 

It's all a master plan... Liberty buys F1, Tony George buys Merc, Roush Fenway buys Red Bull, The Glazer family buys McLaren... Did I leave anyone out?  Maybe Ford buys Ferrari to promote the new movie?

 

Pretty soon money is being invested in rebuilding Brooklands, shoring up Monza, for the new F1RL series....