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2021 Formula 1 Silly Season


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#101 Burai

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 10:43

Roger needs to shut down the Brackley factory and move back to Poole. Let me meet Lewis Hamilton and/or Al Unser Jr. at the Jackson's Mercedes dealership in Holes Bay. Make it be 1994 all over again. Give me back my youth somehow. Thanks.



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#102 grunf77

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 10:43

Ok now the silly season has properly gotten silly. Did Roger Penske find a pile of gold overnight or what? Wtf?

Aliens gave him large sum of "space cash" (South Park reference).



#103 Beri

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 10:53

Penske has been sitting on his money for a while now, so it seems.
Good investments done by the captain these past weeks. And certainly would be a good addition to F1 if they would enter F1. It would become a sponsor magnet I would think. To get a package deal at Penske and advertise in F1 and the IndyCar at the same time is something very valuable.

#104 noikeee

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 10:54

Depends on how the deal is structured. Daimler might just want to off-load the team from its books for P.R. reasons, especially since they are going to sack thousands of workers. Makes it awkward to pay Hamilton $60 million at the same time....

They could offer the team for $1 and guaranteed sponsorship for the next 3 years to Penske. That way, Penske is responsible for the employees etc.


Yeah but he'd still need to fund the team afterwards, and he just bought a whole series and a racetrack, too.

I wonder if Liberty is influencing this deal, an American team winning races in F1 would do wonders for F1 popularity in the US. At the same time there's all kinds of conflicts of interest, given that F1 competes with Indycar for ratings, of course.

Or maybe, much more likely, this story is just BS. I don't think I'll consider Mercedes in F1 dead just yet...

#105 Beri

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 11:05

Yeah but he'd still need to fund the team afterwards, and he just bought a whole series and a racetrack, too.

I wonder if Liberty is influencing this deal, an American team winning races in F1 would do wonders for F1 popularity in the US. At the same time there's all kinds of conflicts of interest, given that F1 competes with Indycar for ratings, of course.

Or maybe, much more likely, this story is just BS. I don't think I'll consider Mercedes in F1 dead just yet...


Mercedes in F1 will not be dead. Even if they continue only as a supplier.
And Penske buying the Brackley team would not be far fetched as he has had close ties with the Daimler group ever since the 90s. One of the most amazing Motorsport stories was written because of Penske and Mercedes with the secret engine project in 1994. This partnership and the 500l engine somewhat even were held responsible for the split.
So there is a history between Penske and Mercedes. And there are still warm ties.

#106 PayasYouRace

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 11:08

OK I'll be the first to mention it. Josef Newgarden for one of the seats.



#107 sopa

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 11:10

If manufacturers pull out, I think the most critical question is what will happen to engines. I think teams could be sold (even if just for €1). But engines are more complex. Why would one manufacturer be prepared to supply half of the field, if necessary?

 

I suspect if at least 2 manufacturers pull out, engines would be frozen with no development allowed. And the Renaults, Hondas and/or Mercedes would become the modern re-branded Supertec, Playlife, Asiatech, Petronas, or call them how you like.



#108 Beri

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 11:16

OK I'll be the first to mention it. Josef Newgarden for one of the seats.


That would be a great idea.

#109 Henri Greuter

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 11:17

I personally liked the other nugget in that article....: that Mercedes has offered to supply Red Bull with engines from 2021 onwards....


Evil thinking....

A manner to destabilize the RedBull-Honda alliance for the upcoming recent years ????

#110 onewingedangel

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 11:18

You have to wonder if Brackley were really up for sale whether McLaren could be interested.

Rather than upgrading the MTC wind tunnel and upping investment ahead of the cost cap, split pooled resource across two teams with two sources of income. Perhaps even offset the purchase cost against Mercedes branding on the cars or a share in the company.

The MTC is a spectacular building, but is not the most practical for expansion, and it would be a shortcut back to the front.

#111 krapmeister

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 11:27

OK I'll be the first to mention it. Josef Newgarden for one of the seats.

 

Scotty Mclaughlin is an absolute lock for the other one  :up:



#112 Henri Greuter

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 11:34

Penske has been sitting on his money for a while now, so it seems.
Good investments done by the captain these past weeks. And certainly would be a good addition to F1 if they would enter F1. It would become a sponsor magnet I would think. To get a package deal at Penske and advertise in F1 and the IndyCar at the same time is something very valuable.


You would be surprised to know how much money (more correct: how little) being spent on all Team Penske efforts is out of his own pockets. He has a talent of attracting people and companies who want to be associated with him and fund his programs instead of going to an opponent.

Perfect example; Menard sponosorship. John menard spent fortunes in the late 80s and the 90s with his won cars to win Indy, even funding his own engine program. never won anything but two poles. Now he sponosors Penske entries on selected events and look what it brought him: a "500" and two IndyGP's, all with Pagenaud driving a Penske entered car

Edited by Henri Greuter, 15 November 2019 - 11:34.


#113 Whatisvalis

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 12:12

One of the risks of Merc selling up is the potential for talent to jump ship.

#114 HistoryFan

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 14:57

there are still rumours about Mercedes could withdraw from Formula 1 at the end of 2020.

Mazepin or Penske as possible buyer for the team

Red Bull was offered engines for 2021 and Red Bull thinks that Mercedes will leave:

https://www.autobild...e-16022749.html



#115 noikeee

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 15:20

You know what, I think F1 would be in a much better place if Mercedes and Renault buggered off as full blown constructors, sold their teams to credible people like Penske who could keep those teams competitive, and remained as engine suppliers. Couple that with the budget cap to even things out, and cars less sensible to dirty air, and we could have a truly great era of F1 in a few years time. This is good for us the fans I think, and it makes sense too, because the major mainstream manufacturers increasingly want less and less to spend billions in a combustion engine series like F1, when they're moving more and more to selling electrical cars.

The painful phase is the transition now, big proper privateers like Penske grabbing these teams is pretty much the best case scenario. Worst case scenario is Brackley and Enstone close their doors. Intermediate scenario is a millionaire like Mazepin or Stroll picks it up for his personal vanity project.

#116 sopa

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 16:28

By the way, if Mercedes offers engines to Red Bull, it's a pretty strong indication Mercedes may pull out as a works team. In normal conditions they wouldn't offer RB engines, and they refused years ago. Because Red Bull with the same PU is a genuine threat to Mercedes to steal championships. However, were Mercedes to continue as a mere engine supplier, supplying Red Bull makes sense, because then they would be interested in finding the best possible teams to do justice to their PU's and achieve results.



#117 AustinF1

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 17:27

By the way, if Mercedes offers engines to Red Bull, it's a pretty strong indication Mercedes may pull out as a works team. In normal conditions they wouldn't offer RB engines, and they refused years ago. Because Red Bull with the same PU is a genuine threat to Mercedes to steal championships. However, were Mercedes to continue as a mere engine supplier, supplying Red Bull makes sense, because then they would be interested in finding the best possible teams to do justice to their PU's and achieve results.

Yep. And they've already promised McLaren PUs for 2021 as well, which I took as a strong indication as well.



#118 taran

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 20:26

By the way, if Mercedes offers engines to Red Bull, it's a pretty strong indication Mercedes may pull out as a works team. In normal conditions they wouldn't offer RB engines, and they refused years ago. Because Red Bull with the same PU is a genuine threat to Mercedes to steal championships. However, were Mercedes to continue as a mere engine supplier, supplying Red Bull makes sense, because then they would be interested in finding the best possible teams to do justice to their PU's and achieve results.

 

Not necessarily. If Honda and Renault bow out of F1 at the end of 2020, either Ferrari or Mercedes must supply engines to Red Bull.

Under those circumstances, it might be better to have Red Bull win with the Mercedes engines than have them pummel Mercedes with Ferrari engines (assuming Red Bull become competitive without the horsepower deficit).
 



#119 Sunnny

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 21:53

Never laughed so much about some bs story about Merc selling  :rotfl:  Just  another typcial bs article post here like the previous hundreds. I;d rather pay more attention to what the Merc drivers and staff are saying about 2021 and beyond. Merc are going nowhere 100% sure about that. 



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#120 danmills

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 21:57

What if... both Vettel AND Hamilton retire simultaneously and truly end a racing era?

 

That would create the mass shakeup we've been wondering.

 

I don't believe Lewis will try to break Schumachers record.

 

Something tells me he will retire once he matches it next season. What else does he need to prove? 


Edited by danmills, 15 November 2019 - 21:59.


#121 PlayboyRacer

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 02:13

Never laughed so much about some bs story about Merc selling :rotfl: Just another typcial bs article post here like the previous hundreds. I;d rather pay more attention to what the Merc drivers and staff are saying about 2021 and beyond. Merc are going nowhere 100% sure about that.

They're not going to hang around forever and I think they're far closer to the end of their works effort than the beginning.

Lewis to close out his career at Ferrari. Zero to lose in terms of legacy, take on Leclerc and take Ferrari back to the top. That would be some team.

#122 alainsfoot

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 04:51

Its Ferrari. Seeing how long they stuck with the likes of Massa and Raikonen I cannot see them forcing Vettel out just yet. Only reason I can see him leave in 2021 is him finding employment somewhere else (RBR or Mercedes) or retirement.

yes its ferrari, but if vettel isnt the clear number one, the wages on offer will be dramatically slashed.  Somehow i cant see him swallowing that.

also, i cant see him bettering hamilton or verstappen, so if he were to join either of their terms, the wages on offer would also be lesser and he would likely further tarnish his reputation. (ie, the perception that he could only win when he had the obvious car at advantage at RB)


Edited by alainsfoot, 16 November 2019 - 04:54.


#123 loki

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 06:30

Would this be a Penske and VAG team with Alonso driving and Stefanovic as team principal?



#124 Sunnny

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 09:08

They're not going to hang around forever and I think they're far closer to the end of their works effort than the beginning.

Lewis to close out his career at Ferrari. Zero to lose in terms of legacy, take on Leclerc and take Ferrari back to the top. That would be some team.

 

Define forever? 100, 10,000, 1,000000 years? You can say the same thing about any team in F1. There is zero certainity any team will last forever whhatever that means. Until we hear a formal annoucement about Merc quiting they will stay in F1 just as long as Ferrari, McLaren, Williams etc. No one has a solid arguement to prove otherwise aside from internet rumours and pure speculation. 

 

What if... both Vettel AND Hamilton retire simultaneously and truly end a racing era?

 

That would create the mass shakeup we've been wondering.

 

I don't believe Lewis will try to break Schumachers record.

 

Something tells me he will retire once he matches it next season. What else does he need to prove? 

 

 

Its funny whenever a team or driver does exceedingly well people say "they wont hang around they have nothing left to prove" yes like winners like to stop winning  :rolleyes: It's a case of people projecting their own limitations on others. Ask the likes of Tiger Woods, Vale, Federer, Nadal. Serena etc why they are still battling on. 

 

So now to add to the:

 

2017 Lewis going to quit

2018  Lewis going to quit

2019 Lewis going to quit

2020 Lewis going  to quit

2021 Lewis going to quit

 

Now its going to be 

 

2021 Merc going  to quit

2022 Merc going to quit

2023 Merc going to quit

2024 Merc going  to quit

2025 Merc going to quit

 

IMO The story about Penske is utter bs. Funny though when he bought indy I said to myself "I bet it wont belong before someone says he will buy and F1 team" And guess what  :lol:



#125 ForzaFormula

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 09:27

What if... both Vettel AND Hamilton retire simultaneously and truly end a racing era?

 

That would create the mass shakeup we've been wondering.

 

I don't believe Lewis will try to break Schumachers record.

 

Something tells me he will retire once he matches it next season. What else does he need to prove? 

 

He's said differently and wants to carry on being the best possible.



#126 Clatter

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 10:45

What if... both Vettel AND Hamilton retire simultaneously and truly end a racing era?

That would create the mass shakeup we've been wondering.

I don't believe Lewis will try to break Schumachers record.

Something tells me he will retire once he matches it next season. What else does he need to prove?

As long as he can be in a competitive car I don't see him stopping until he has all the records. The only thing I don't see him doing is just hanging around on the grid in midfield or lower teams just for the kicks.

#127 JG

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 11:00

Sunnnny, you sound like someone terriffied at the thought that they will leave. It's not that unlikley really. Mercedes have nothing more to prove, with the new rules for 2021, they have actually more to loose. Besides all that, there is a new economic recession on the way.

#128 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 11:03

It’s not about proving this or proving that. Most car manufacturers want to invest in more innovation resembling innovation in road cars. So the reason I can see Mercedes leaving is because they want to focus on their Formula E team.

#129 MikeV1987

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 12:13

How much does Daimler give to the F1 team now a days? I read an article from a couple years back that’s it’s actually relatively small.

“I don’t want to say the precise number, but the marketing contribution from Daimler is around 10 percent of revenue,” Toto Wolff told Motorsport.com

https://www.motorspo...961078/3049999/


Then theres this tweet from a day or two ago.

Mercedes says the media value of being in #F1 is "north of 1bn Euros per year... and the costs that we would not like to disclose publicly are probably surprisingly low because... you both have a cost side and revenue side in F1, so as we sit here today we’re committed."

So yeah, that makes me a little reluctant to believe that they will just walk away from being a works team sooner than later.

Edited by MikeV1987, 16 November 2019 - 12:24.


#130 balage06

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 12:15

It’s not about proving this or proving that. Most car manufacturers want to invest in more innovation resembling innovation in road cars. So the reason I can see Mercedes leaving is because they want to focus on their Formula E team.

 

But the thing is, Formula E not even uses pioneer technology. There are no real constructors and the progress is relatively marginal on a year-to-year basis (much slower than it could be imho). Manufacturers are only interested because it's relatively cheap (HWA only entered F3 too because they had unused money left from the cancelled DTM programme despite entering FE), they can reach an audience beyond hardcore racing fans (according to Wolff himself) and it's an obvious marketing platform for electric cars.



#131 r4mses

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 12:56

How much does Daimler give to the F1 team now a days? I read an article from a couple years back that’s it’s actually relatively small.
[...]

 

As I've said: 

 

Just yesterday I've seen what looked like a solid researched - or well made up - roundup of F1 teams' stats including budgets and incomes (cannot find the source right now). Among other things, it stated Daimler's input into Mercedes F1 at $80m p.a. (of $430m total buget if I recall correctly) while Renault burns $90m. If that's the case, imo it's a no-brainer to stay iinF1 for Daimler.


Edited by r4mses, 16 November 2019 - 12:56.


#132 r4mses

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 13:00

But the thing is, Formula E not even uses pioneer technology. There are no real constructors and the progress is relatively marginal on a year-to-year basis (much slower than it could be imho). Manufacturers are only interested because it's relatively cheap (HWA only entered F3 too because they had unused money left from the cancelled DTM programme despite entering FE), they can reach an audience beyond hardcore racing fans (according to Wolff himself) and it's an obvious marketing platform for electric cars.

 

I wonder who they actually reach in FE since it's is pretty much nohwere in German media. Exempt for SkySportNews I'd say nobody cares about FE at all. FE is nowhere to be seen in main stream media from my perspective, while the result of any F1 race gets at least mentioned in the evening tv news and newspapers.



#133 Marklar

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 13:18

I think the much bigger aspect is PR. How long can you justify paying a driver 50m per year if thousand others lose their job at the same time, how long can you justify to race in a series with ICEs when you are planning to not produce any in the future, and so on.

As long as Mercedes is winning, and especially with now starting to bag all the records it outweights it, but if they stop winning or as soon as there are no records left to be broken there aren't many reasons anymore to stay as a constructor. As a engine supplier, especially when they freeze the development in a few years, you probably dont make much loss before marketing in the first place, so staying on for a couple of years on that front is way less problematic.



#134 Requiem84

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 13:27

How bad does F1 look after they have let Mercedes shape the 2021 rules (blocking various changes!) only for Mercedes to pull out when the rules come into force.

#135 monolulu

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 13:29

What if... both Vettel AND Hamilton retire simultaneously and truly end a racing era?

 

That would create the mass shakeup we've been wondering.

 

I don't believe Lewis will try to break Schumachers record.

 

Something tells me he will retire once he matches it next season. What else does he need to prove? 

I think Lewis & Seb will want to race in 2021 they’re itching to try the new cars.



#136 Sunnny

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 13:34

Sunnnny, you sound like someone terriffied at the thought that they will leave. It's not that unlikley really. Mercedes have nothing more to prove, with the new rules for 2021, they have actually more to loose. Besides all that, there is a new economic recession on the way.

 

You just contradicted yourself.

 

You say Merc have nothing to prove but  then say with the new rules they have more to lose. Well how about Merc staying on and PROVING they can just be equally dominant with the new rules?  :wave:

 

Oh and as for economic recession on the way you think it does not apply to Ferrari, McLaren, Williams, Reanult et al? .. everyone so desperate, wishing, hoping that Merc will leave so their teams can finally have a look in    ;)



#137 motohead

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 13:35

The correct😉 answer is:


Mercedes: Hamilton - Russell

Ferrari: Leclerc - Magnussen

Red Bull: Verstappen - Vettel

McLaren: Sainz - Norris

Renault: Ricciardo - Lundgaard

Alpha Tauri: Vips - Tsunada

Racing Point: Perez - Stroll

Alfa Romeo: Schumacher - Giovanazzi

Haas: Schwarzman - Armstrong

Williams: Latifi - Ocon

Edited by motohead, 16 November 2019 - 13:44.


#138 PayasYouRace

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 14:25

You just contradicted yourself.

 

You say Merc have nothing to prove but  then say with the new rules they have more to lose. Well how about Merc staying on and PROVING they can just be equally dominant with the new rules?  :wave:

 

Oh and as for economic recession on the way you think it does not apply to Ferrari, McLaren, Williams, Reanult et al? .. everyone so desperate, wishing, hoping that Merc will leave so their teams can finally have a look in    ;)

 

Ferrari are a bit of a special case as F1 is very much part of their primary business. The team is as important to Ferrari as building nice sportscars.

McLaren are a bit difficult to read at the moment because in recent years things have changed in the way they go about their business. I simply don't know if they'd prioritise the F1 team any more.

 

Williams have no other primary business. They'll not pull out of F1. They'll be in F1 until either Williams or F1 cease to exist.

 

There are rumour of Renault also wanting to pull out, so they're in the exact same category as Mercedes. Both are primarily car manufacturers and they'll hang about in F1 only as long as it suits them. What that means for the race teams at Brackley and Enstone would remain to be seen.



#139 JG

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 17:11

We will soon find out.

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#140 djparky

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 21:25

Manufacturers come and go, Mercedes have nothing left to prove, them winning again is met by a collective yawn...they'll most likely win again next year as well. Same thing sort of happened with Renault, they had nothing left to prove and priorities change for these companies as well

FE appeals because it enables them to display their eco credentials at a tiny fraction of the cost of F1

#141 danmills

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 21:43

With Lewis currently being on trend with the planet, would a switch to FE not tickle his pickle? New challenge, sticks with Mercedes, less intense calendar schedule and will have more time to juggle side careers.

#142 SonGoku

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 21:57

With Lewis currently being on trend with the planet, would a switch to FE not tickle his pickle? New challenge, sticks with Mercedes, less intense calendar schedule and will have more time to juggle side careers.

 


No, because he doesn't like to drive F3 cars again. And his whole point is to be pro-planet with being a F1 driver, an opinion that isn't appreciated at all under the ''racing'' crowd.

Edited by SonGoku, 16 November 2019 - 21:58.


#143 ForzaFormula

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 22:06

No, because he doesn't like to drive F3 cars again. And his whole point is to be pro-planet with being a F1 driver, an opinion that isn't appreciated at all under the ''racing'' crowd.

 

And the "racing crowd" probably use as much or more energy living in life than Hamilton him self, ironically. 

 

He will probably stay at Merc, win 8 titles and then call it a day ? or go Ferrari after to try get 10  :smoking:



#144 THEWALL

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 22:17

Sorry if I missed it, but there should be a driver by driver account for when their contracts end. Otherwise this becomes the Red Riding Hood fan projection fantasy game...



#145 balage06

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 22:26

Sorry if I missed it, but there should be a driver by driver account for when their contracts end. Otherwise this becomes the Red Riding Hood fan projection fantasy game...

 

Almost everyone's contracted till the end of 2020 (maybe except for Leclerc).



#146 Viryfan

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 23:37

Almost everyone's contracted till the end of 2020 (maybe except for Leclerc).

 

Ocon and Perez are also contracted beyond 2020.



#147 Marklar

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 23:47

So much for that

 

 

 

Such speculation was already questionable given Penske’s recent acquisition of Indianapolis Motor Speedway and the IndyCar Series, and when asked for comment on Mercedes he told RACER’s Robin Miller the report is “absolutely not true, and my plate is full”.

https://racer.com/20...ut-speculation/



#148 Anderis

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Posted 17 November 2019 - 10:00

So now we know it will happen since it's been denied? :confused:



#149 noikeee

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Posted 17 November 2019 - 10:19

Sooooooo, will people appreciate Bottas better when he gets replaced by Mazepin Jr?  :p



#150 statman

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Posted 17 November 2019 - 10:28

Mercedes: Hamilton - Russell
Ferrari: Leclerc - Vettel
Red Bull: Verstappen - Albon
McLaren: Sainz - Norris
Renault: Ricciardo - Ocon
Alpha Tauri: Vips - Gasly
Racing Point: Perez - Stroll
Alfa Romeo: Schwarzman - Giovanazzi
Haas: Magnussen - Armstrong
Williams: Latifi - Bottas*

 

*if Williams improves in 2020