20 replies to this topic

[chr1s]

Whilst reading the ex-Schumacher Ferrari thread I noticed that RM Sothebys are also auctioning what they say is the only surviving 1982 Ferrari 126C2 of the seven built. This raised a couple of questions in my mind.  Firstly, seven seems like a lot of cars for one season and secondly, and more importantly, what happened to the others? We know two were destroyed in tragic circumstances, but what of the other four?

[DarthWillie]

Whilst reading the ex-Schumacher Ferrari thread I noticed that RM Sothebys are also auctioning what they say is the only surviving 1982 Ferrari 126C2 of the seven built. This raised a couple of questions in my mind.  Firstly, seven seems like a lot of cars for one season and secondly, and more importantly, what happened to the others? We know two were destroyed in tragic circumstances, but what of the other four?

I seem to remember 3 being destroyed in crashes, and 1 or 2 being converted to 1983 spec  cars.

 

dont forget halfway through the season they updated the car to b spec. that was almost a new car. Maybe thats why so many cars.

[arttidesco]

While seven cars seems alot back then that was really not so unusual, 055 was destroyed by Pironi in a Ricard testing accident after Kayalami.

 

056 was rebuilt with a new monocoque after Pironi's accident in Brazil, the new chassis 056 appeared at Imola while the old one was taken apart for repairs these were completed over night to appear for Pironi on the morning of the San Marino GP. 

 

New 056 crashed at Imola durung practice when Pironi had a puncture. 

 

MotorSport reported 056 as having undergone a third rebuild prior to Zolder, seems more likely to be the 056 chassis Pironi crashed at Imola than the 056 he drove to victory.

 

058 was the last car Gilles drove.

 

Riccardo Paletti fatally ran into the back of one of the 056's at the start of the Canadian GP and this car was reported by MotorSport to be repaired only for Pironi to experience a suspension failure and another huge crash at Ricard in testing.SFAIK the chassis number 056 did not appear again during the season.

 

Pironi's F1 career came to an end in 060 which was never seen again.

 

So from five chassis, four chassis were written off during the season, with a replacement 056 possibly having survived ?

 

The rest of the survivors from 1982 would be 057, 059, 060, 061, and 062. 

 

Unused 063 was reported complete at the end of the season and 064 was being built as the season ended.

 

Hope that helps.

[Bloggsworth]

They will reappear sooner or later, no doubt with a beautifully constructed provenance - Cynic? Moi?

[Peter Morley]

Ferraris online newsletter says:

 

The 1982 season saw 126 C2s s/n 055, 056, 057, 058, 059, 060, 061 and 062 all campaigned, only s/n 61 survives today. After Villeneuve’s death Ferrari crushed almost all of the surviving 126C turbo cars.

 

126 C2Bs s/n 062, 063, 064 and 065 were used early in the year while 126C3 s/n 066, 067, 068 and 069 were used in the 1983 season. Only s/n 064, s/n 065 and s/n 068 survive today.

 

Twenty-nine 126 CK, C2, C2b, C3 and C4 cars were built with s/ns from 047 to 077 (s/n 048 was the last T5). S/n 047 is the 1st of only 10 remaining 126 C F1 cars, they are s/n 047, 052, 061, 064, 065, 068, 072, 073, 074 and 077. All other 126 Cs were destroyed in racing accidents, test sessions or crushed by Ferrari.

Edited by Peter Morley, 18 November 2019 - 11:20.

[Henri Greuter]

Whilst reading the ex-Schumacher Ferrari thread I noticed that RM Sothebys are also auctioning what they say is the only surviving 1982 Ferrari 126C2 of the seven built. This raised a couple of questions in my mind.  Firstly, seven seems like a lot of cars for one season and secondly, and more importantly, what happened to the others? We know two were destroyed in tragic circumstances, but what of the other four?

Apart from the cars destroyed in action, I wonder if there wasn't another reason.

126C2 had (at least) one (very visible) major technical revamp during the season. The first cars had the conventional rocker arm front suspension but during the season the later cars had the same kind of rising rate front suspension as Brabham pioneered.
I have no idea and/or insight if come of those chassis were modified from one system to another or if the rising-rate cars were new coques introduced during the season.

[Michael Ferner]

New monocoques. I'm not sure if it was possible to rebuild an existing chassis to the new spec, but it was certainly not practical. The new suspension debuted at the Canadian GP, I'm fairly sure.

[Henri Greuter]

New monocoques. I'm not sure if it was possible to rebuild an existing chassis to the new spec, but it was certainly not practical. The new suspension debuted at the Canadian GP, I'm fairly sure.

Same thought with me as being the most logical and practical option: older rockerarm cocques phased out (replaced) if not being lost.
But as you know, what appears to be the most logical is sometimes the thig that isn't done for whatever reason.
But that does partly explain a larger than usual for the time number of cocques being built.

[arttidesco]

Apropo the C2's switch from rocker  / wishbone to wishbone / wishbone pull rod front suspension DSJ reported that 059 was raced by Pironi with the former at Monaco and after the race the front suspension was changed to double wishbone.

 

After the Canadian GP 056 which had suffered rearend damage in the Paletti incident the car was rebuilt with the pull rod suspension and was thus fitted with it when Pironi had his second crash of the season testing at Ricard, the cause of the accident was wishbone failure and thereafter the wishbones had a channel section welded in.

 

DSJ reported Tambay's chassis 057 had also been converted to the pull rod suspension for the Dutch GP.

 

While all that was going on 059 with pull rod front suspension was the first C2 to be fitted with a logitudinal gearbox and attendent suspension mods that became the definitive B spec C2.

 

The first B spec monocoque 'built fully modified' for the pull rod front suspension was 062 which Tambay drove in practice for the Swiss GP at Dijon.

 

Hope that helps 

Edited by arttidesco, 19 November 2019 - 06:51.

[Henri Greuter]

Apropo the C2's switch from rocker  / wishbone to wishbone / wishbone pull rod front suspension DSJ reported that 059 was raced by Pironi with the former at Monaco and after the race the front suspension was changed to double wishbone.
 
After the Canadian GP 056 which had suffered rearend damage in the Paletti incident the car was rebuilt with the pull rod suspension and was thus fitted with it when Pironi had his second crash of the season testing at Ricard, the cause of the accident was wishbone failure and thereafter the wishbones had a channel section welded in.
 
DSJ reported Tambay's chassis 057 had also been converted to the pull rod suspension for the Dutch GP.
 
While all that was going on 059 with pull rod front suspension was the first C2 to be fitted with a logitudinal gearbox and attendent suspension mods that became the definitive B spec C2.
 
The first B spec monocoque 'built fully modified' for the pull rod front suspension was 062 which Tambay drove in practice for the Swiss GP at Dijon.
 
Hope that helps 

Certainly for me. Thanks for all of this.

[Henri Greuter]

While all that was going on 059 with pull rod front suspension was the first C2 to be fitted with a logitudinal gearbox and attendent suspension mods that became the definitive B spec C2.
 
The first B spec monocoque 'built fully modified' for the pull rod front suspension was 062 which Tambay drove in practice for the Swiss GP at Dijon.
 
Hope that helps 

Interesting, come to think of it.

Funny to see the C2 with longitudinal gearbox and pullrod front suspension being named the definitive 126C2 B spec, yet all the different spec car used in 1982 were all entered as 126C2.

No officially named 126C2B appeared before 1983 when in the first half of the year the team used flatbottomed cars built around the C2 monocoques.
But in fact, these are more a C spec than a B because as far as I remember, Ferrari shelved the longitudinal gearbox and stuck with the wellknown Transversale now thanks to the loss of the gorund effects tunnels there was no need for the longitudinal gearbox anymore.
Or will I be proven wrong again in this memory too????

[arttidesco]

I agree the pullrod front suspension longitudinal gearbox layout was not officially recognised as a B spec in '82 and the flat bottom B Spec of '83 would probably more accurately be a C spec    

[jtremlett]

It is suggested that seven cars for a season seems like a lot but surely the opposite is true?  Given the tumultuous season one might expect there to have been more but six, seven or eight cars for a season was pretty normal for Ferrari then and for a long time thereafter.  I believe there were ten of the 2001 car built, for instance.  Bear in mind they would be taking three cars to each race (sometimes four to Monaco, so that both drivers had a spare) and weren't restricted by the rules as to how many cars they could make or how much testing they could do.

[Michael Ferner]

Big teams like Ferrari, Renault or Alfa Romeo always built many cars, British top teams like Brabham, Williams or McLaren almost as many, but the "bulk" of the teams got through a season with three or maybe four new cars, max.

[Charlieman]

Big teams like Ferrari, Renault or Alfa Romeo always built many cars, British top teams like Brabham, Williams or McLaren almost as many, but the "bulk" of the teams got through a season with three or maybe four new cars, max.

Lotus were a big team in the 1970s and raced the model 72 for six seasons with four labelled major revisions. Nine chassis numbers were used although some monocoques were unpicked more than once to accommodate new suspension designs. Ferrari recycled major chassis elements for new cars in the late 312Tx period. BRM recycled chassis elements similarly in the 1950s.

 

I don't think re-use or construction of new cars can be correlated to team wealth or size. It is best considered in terms of expediency or practicality.

[B Squared]

The 126C2 offering from RM/Sotheby's:

https://rmsothebys.c...i-126-c2/831679

[Arjan de Roos]

The 126C2 offering from RM/Sotheby's:

https://rmsothebys.c...i-126-c2/831679

 

Not so impressed with the glued on chassis plate, rivet openings cut off.

Earlier this C2 was for sale via Modena. Already then I wondered why the side pods were painted (at one time even red) and why the 27 on the nose is too small.  

[SamoanAttorney]

It seems that 126C Ferraris are the new black - this just in from Artcurial concerning their sale at Rétromobile, some wild claims and a lack of copy checking.

 

Also lining up in the 2020 Retromovile sale will be the F1 1983 Ferrari 126 C3 single seater from the prestigious Manoir de l’Automobile collection in Lohéac. It was entered by the Scuderia Ferrari in the 1983 World Championship and driven by Patrick Tambay and René Arnoux. Arnot raced this car to victory in both the German and the Dutch Grand Prix that year. Ferrari dominated the 1983 season with the 126 C2B and 126 C3, winning the Constructors Championship.

[D-Type]

Not so impressed with the glued on chassis plate, rivet openings cut off.

Earlier this C2 was for sale via Modena. Already then I wondered why the side pods were painted (at one time even red) and why the 27 on the nose is too small.  

We are talking of companies that can apparently clone an entire car.  Is it really that difficult to produce a reproduction (ie fake) chassis plate and rivet it on?  

[arttidesco]

 

Patrick driving 061 to a third place finish early in the British GP

 

I'd want to see a period shot of an original 126c2 chassis plate for comparisson before parting with any money, what we are looking at here does seem to ring the Caveat Emptor bell rather alarmingly.

 

I guess sorting out the terrible numbers and other cosmetic anomallies would be a trivial trifle when spending 2 - 2.5 million ;-)

Edited by arttidesco, 22 November 2019 - 10:33.

[B Squared]

Approximately 2.1 million was the selling price:

https://rmsothebys.c...39-000c2971a03a