170 replies to this topic

[Branislav]

This race was part of F1 calendar from 1950 til 1960. What are the chances to see her again?

 

[maximilian]

Zero.

[Branislav]

Zero.

You never know with Roger Penske and his mastermind

[maximilian]

Roger MAY bring back F1 to the Indianapolis road course as a completely separate event, but the Indy 500 will never be part of F1.

[Henri Greuter]

Is only possible if either Indy adopt F1 rules and formulas of F1 adopting Indy/Indycar formulas. But even then. But Indy dropping the formula and championship it is part of, not very likely to happen.
Besides that, F1 rules stipulate a maximum race distance of a litte over 300 km, Indy is 804 km.
So that's pretty much it.
Besides that, I wonder if a decision to run at the oval would be approved by all F1 drivers, some of them don't like the thought of no run-off area but instant walls to run into.

At best a return to the Speedway for F1 cars on the roadcoarse is possible. But that would likely require the end of the IndyGP for Indycars as we know it right now. And I am not sure that the Speedway wants to cancel the one event they came up with in order to give Indy still a Month of May, despite the massive reduction in practice days.
And F1 in May, yet another thing of which I doubt if people at Indy want this and the F1 owners seeing their event being used as a warm-up for Indy's main event.

Edited by Henri Greuter, 28 November 2019 - 14:01.

[player1s]

until 1960 the cars running in F1 and Indycar where relatively the same so it was possible to run it in the F1 championship.

 

Today's cars are worlds apart. F1 teams would have to buy/lease a chassis for just 1 race. You'd have to grant teams permission to skip the race as the costs would simply be too high for them to run. And with other entries consisting of Indycar regulars there is a very big chance they wont make the grid at all.

 

Then there is a chance that F1 regulars would find racing on an oval too dangerous and thus opt to skip it. You could potentially end up with RBR, Mercedes and Ferrari  driving with one-off drivers for that race. And then you can also argue what the point would be to enter for, lets say, RBR if Mercedes isnt there with their regular drivers.

[HeadFirst]

You never know with Roger Penske and his mastermind

 

Yes you do know. Roger is not a fool, and that is precisely why it will never happen. An F1 road race is certainly possible, but not the 500.

[red stick]

Among life's greatest

mysteries:  Why do we fall 

for this every time?

 

[Henri Greuter]

until 1960 the cars running in F1 and Indycar where relatively the same so it was possible to run it in the F1 championship.

Now, if that had indeed been he case, then the two Monza events would have been way more successful than they were and wit more participation of European built cars.
Keep in mind, not a single European built car that ever participated in these events complied to the then current F1 rules for 2.5 liter engines. The on that came the closest to being an f1 car of whatever f1 formula ever was a much modified example of a 4.5 liter Ferrari V12 as used in '51.

[PayasYouRace]

I kind of wish it was, and as it was back in that period too. So not an F1 race at Indy, but just awarding the finishers of the 500 with world championship points. Just in the hope that it’ll encourage more F1 drivers to do “an Alonso” and do the 500 instead of Monaco.

 

There’s also a part of me that would like to see F1 cars racing on an oval, and with the 2021 rules the cars would be especially suited to it. But that’s just my fantasy too.

 

That covers the poll options. For the OP’s question. No, it’ll never happen for a million and one reasons, technical, commercial, and political.

[Spillage]

No. It's a different sport.

I wouldn't mind the schedule clash with Monaco being brought to an end so that F1 drivers could compete in it though.

[noriaki]

No. It's a different sport.

I wouldn't mind the schedule clash with Monaco being brought to an end so that F1 drivers could compete in it though.

Agreed.

Wouldn't be very difficult to adjust the May-June schedules as follows to allow for as much crossover action as possible - - >

May
Monaco GP (f1)
Indy GP (f1)
Indy 500 quali (indy)
Indy 500 (indy)

June
Canadian GP (f1) / Detroit (indy)
Le Mans (wec)
Austrian GP (f1) / Road America (indy)
Etc.

[Branislav]

Is only possible if either Indy adopt F1 rules and formulas of F1 adopting Indy/Indycar formulas. 

And what about simply to put Indy 500 as it is but with F1 championship points. Then drivers from F1 would come to Indy to earn that points. Not team (that would be silly) but drivers: Lewis, Max, Leclerc, Vettel, Ricciardo etc. And you know what, I would double that earn points because it's "The Greatest Spectacle in Racing".

[F1 Mike]

It'll never happen, but which of the drivers would try to find a seat for the Indy500 if the points were simply included in the F1 championship?

I don't think Seb would - family man, I don't think he'd want to take the risk.

Lewis would do it if he thought it could get him championship points.

Probably Leclerc, Ocon, Verstappen, Bottas, Norris

[BuddyHolly]

I'll be honest, yes I'd like to see it.  but how many current F1 drivers would have the guts to race there flat out? 

[RA2]

"The Greatest Spectacle in Racing" is a tag line, means nothing

[LucaP]

F1 at the full Le Mans course is more likely

[PayasYouRace]

"The Greatest Spectacle in Racing" is a tag line, means nothing

 

I'm struggling to think of any that are more spectacular.

[Henri Greuter]

And what about simply to put Indy 500 as it is but with F1 championship points. Then drivers from F1 would come to Indy to earn that points. Not team (that would be silly) but drivers: Lewis, Max, Leclerc, Vettel, Ricciardo etc. And you know what, I would double that earn points because it's "The Greatest Spectacle in Racing".

 

 

Imagine the outcry of fans worldwide if a certain driver loses the title because of his refusal to race at Indy, or not being able to do so for whatever reason you can think of and is narrowly beaten by a driver who scored his decive points at the Indy 500.

 

Your idea however would crate another problem: Indy being part of 2 championships. Would Indycar drivers, even "Indy Only" appreciate losing even more starting spots to F1 drivers? Which championship needs the priority for allocated starting spots in the field?

 

 

Let Indy be Indy, leave F1 as it is. Both don't deed another and I honelstly have no idea who has the most to lose because of being merged with the other

[Henri Greuter]

I'm struggling to think of any that are more spectacular.

 

NA$CAR Superspeedway Bumpercar rides with guaranteed high speed crashes sooner or later????

Edited by Henri Greuter, 28 November 2019 - 17:48.

[Risil]

I'm struggling to think of any that are more spectacular.

Greyhounds at Towcester?

[loki]

You’d never get some of them dainty F1 blokes on a super speedway.  

[PayasYouRace]

Imagine the outcry of fans worldwide if a certain driver loses the title because of his refusal to race at Indy, or not being able to do so for whatever reason you can think of and is narrowly beaten by a driver who scored his decive points at the Indy 500.

 

Your idea however would crate another problem: Indy being part of 2 championships. Would Indycar drivers, even "Indy Only" appreciate losing even more starting spots to F1 drivers? Which championship needs the priority for allocated starting spots in the field?

 

 

Let Indy be Indy, leave F1 as it is. Both don't deed another and I honelstly have no idea who has the most to lose because of being merged with the other

 

Well hopefully there's never any allocated starting spots at Indy.

 

And as for outcry, F1 fans get outraged over anything, no matter what.

[absinthedude]

The main reason it was part of the World Championship (it was never an F1 race), was in the hope of attracting regular F1 World Championship drivers to Indy, and regular Indy drivers to F1. That didn't happen and the idea was ultimately dropped. It was an aberration which has confused and divided the stats people ever since. 

 

Unless F1 and Indycar merge at some point in the future, then no. They're separate formulae with very little overlap in terms of drivers, places raced, and none in terms of chassis and engines. By all means structure the F1 calendar to allow F1 drivers to race at Indy if they want, but not as part of the WDC.

[Branislav]

I'll be honest, yes I'd like to see it.  but how many current F1 drivers would have the guts to race there flat out? 

We would find out

[PayasYouRace]

The main reason it was part of the World Championship (it was never an F1 race), was in the hope of attracting regular F1 World Championship drivers to Indy, and regular Indy drivers to F1. That didn't happen and the idea was ultimately dropped. It was an aberration which has confused and divided the stats people ever since. 

 

Unless F1 and Indycar merge at some point in the future, then no. They're separate formulae with very little overlap in terms of drivers, places raced, and none in terms of chassis and engines. By all means structure the F1 calendar to allow F1 drivers to race at Indy if they want, but not as part of the WDC.

 

The irony is that Indy did start attracting F1 regulars, almost as soon as they dropped it from the championship.

[RA2]

I'm struggling to think of any that are more spectacular.

 

 

How is the track any different to the other speedways that they race on?

[PayasYouRace]

How is the track any different to the other speedways that they race on?

 

Firstly, it's the only 2.5 mile superspeedway they race on at the moment, so there's that, but the unique aspect to the Indy 500 spectacle is all the pre-race pageantry.

[Branislav]

Imagine the outcry of fans worldwide if a certain driver loses the title because of his refusal to race at Indy, or not being able to do so for whatever reason you can think of and is narrowly beaten by a driver who scored his decive points at the Indy 500.

 

So? Their problem.

 

Your idea however would crate another problem: Indy being part of 2 championships. Would Indycar drivers, even "Indy Only" appreciate losing even more starting spots to F1 drivers? Which championship needs the priority for allocated starting spots in the field?

Neither championship. You have qualifying FOR ALL and fastest 33 are in.

 

 

Let Indy be Indy, leave F1 as it is. Both don't deed another and I honelstly have no idea who has the most to lose because of being merged with the other

 

i think that race would then explode, double, triple TV ratings. Even more.

[RA2]

Firstly, it's the only 2.5 mile superspeedway they race on at the moment, so there's that, but the unique aspect to the Indy 500 spectacle is all the pre-race pageantry.

 

 

So Pocano is not a 2.5 mile superspeedway?

 

The very reason other tracks hae not been sucessful, shows that there is nothing special about the racing. Maybe as you said the pre race pagentry is the great spectacle.

Edited by RA2, 28 November 2019 - 18:27.

[Branislav]

So Pocano is not a 2.5 mile superspeedway?

 

The very reason other tracks hae not been sucessful, shows that there is nothing special about the racing. Maybe as you said the pre race pagentry is the great spectacle.

C'mon man this race is run from 1911 the oldest race on earth.

[Henri Greuter]

 

Neither championship. You have qualifying FOR ALL and fastest 33 are in.

 

 

 

 

BTW, do you want the 500 to be for both kind of cars? Thus Indycars and F1 cars in their own specifications going out against another?

 

If so, Apart from making and F1 car durable enough to survive a race more that 2.5  times as long as they normally have to race....

 

How do you wanna solve the problem is one of the cars is much better than the other one? In the case of Indycars being faster you're gonna get the problem that there are often enough enough cars to fill the 33 car field, come what may. "Keep those spoiled F1 boys out of out show...

Indycar allows entered backup cars to be taken over by other drivers to qualify for the the race. F1 can't do that.

Logistic it is simply impossible.

[Branislav]

BTW, do you want the 500 to be for both kind of cars? Thus Indycars and F1 cars in their own specifications going out against another?

 

 

I said Indy cars and F1 drivers are invited.

[BRG]

I'll be honest, yes I'd like to see it.  but how many current F1 drivers would have the guts to race there flat out? 

All of them.  if it was part of the WDC.

 

You’d never get some of them dainty F1 blokes on a super speedway.  

Yes, of course, only good old 'Murican boys are brave enough.    You really need to get over the fact that Jim Clark and Graham Hill rocked up and made winning the 500 look easy.  If you combined the F1 grid and the Indycar grid and ran a race, the first 20 places would be occupied by the F1 boys at the chequered flag.  It's the difference between a world class competition and a national championship.  Get over it.

[Branislav]

 If you combined the F1 grid and the Indycar grid and ran a race, the first 20 places would be occupied by the F1 boys at the chequered flag.  It's the difference between a world class competition and a national championship.  Get over it.

I'm not so sure actually I don't think so. Look at Alonso. Did he won? Where he was when retired, in which place?

[PayasYouRace]

So Pocano is not a 2.5 mile superspeedway?

 

The very reason other tracks hae not been sucessful, shows that there is nothing special about the racing. Maybe as you said the pre race pagentry is the great spectacle.

 

No, Pocono is no longer part of the Indycar series.

 

The Indy 500 is advertised as the greatest spectacle, and that includes all the pageantry and weeks of build up too. But your argument makes no sense. If the other tracks haven't had anything special about their racing (debatable) then they wouldn't be as great a spectacle as Indy promotes itself as anyway. Yet Indy doesn't have to rely only on it's build-up and non-racing activities. The 500 is almost always an exciting race with the result in doubt until the very last lap.

[Branislav]

And second try he didn't even qualify. Alonso.

Edited by Branislav, 28 November 2019 - 19:36.

[PayasYouRace]

All of them.  if it was part of the WDC.

 

Yes, of course, only good old 'Murican boys are brave enough.    You really need to get over the fact that Jim Clark and Graham Hill rocked up and made winning the 500 look easy.  If you combined the F1 grid and the Indycar grid and ran a race, the first 20 places would be occupied by the F1 boys at the chequered flag.  It's the difference between a world class competition and a national championship.  Get over it.

 

Edit: Forget what I said. Your cynicism is overwhelming whatever argument you're trying to put forward.

 

Let's just say that you're wrong and there are plenty of talented drivers at Indy such that the F1 field wouldn't have it all their own way.

[BRG]

I'm not so sure actually I don't think so. Look at Alonso. Did he won? Where he was when retired, in which place?

He led the race, despite being a so-called 'rookie'.  A nice insult by Indy to a two-times World Champion!  He was always in contention and could very well have won but then he was let down by his Honda engine, something that he was somewhat accustomed to at the time.

[Henri Greuter]

I said Indy cars and F1 drivers are invited.

 

 

Sorry, failed to notice that.

[Branislav]

He led the race, despite being a so-called 'rookie'.  A nice insult by Indy to a two-times World Champion!  He was always in contention and could very well have won but then he was let down by his Honda engine, something that he was somewhat accustomed to at the time.

I asked in which position he was when engine let go?

[Myrvold]

He led the race, despite being a so-called 'rookie'.  A nice insult by Indy to a two-times World Champion!  He was always in contention and could very well have won but then he was let down by his Honda engine, something that he was somewhat accustomed to at the time.

Was he a rookie on ovals or not?
He could, but he wasn't in the lead when he retired.

For your last post, why hasn't Ericsson, Chilton, Rubens etc. etc. won if a combined race would lead to 20 F1 drivers in the top 20?

[BRG]

For your last post, why hasn't Ericsson, Chilton, Rubens etc. etc. won if a combined race would lead to 20 F1 drivers in the top 20?

The first two were found to be not up to F1 standards and sent to Indy as it was more appropriate to their talent level.  Rubens was already well past his sell-by date.    

[Branislav]

The first two were found to be not up to F1 standards and sent to Indy as it was more appropriate to their talent level.  Rubens was already well past his sell-by date.    

Then you can't say 20. How many do you think current F1 drivers are really worth?

Edited by Branislav, 28 November 2019 - 20:45.

[jonpollak]

It sure is Off Season... definitely

But hell yeah I’d like to see it.....
I’d also like an evening in bed with Amal Clooney but that’s not happening either.
Jp

[Beri]

Never give up hope Jon.

On the subject, it would be awesome to see active F1 drivers participating in the Indy500. We all saw how big of an event it was when Servia's countryman did an attempt.
Bad thing is Monaco and Indy will continue to interfere each other on the calendar.

[InSearchOfThe]

How many F1 drivers have ever raced on an oval? None.

 

Where would they learn these skills driving in Europe? They wouldn't. There isn't a series on the continent that teaches it.

 

Pipedream? 1000%

[Joseki]

I'd rather watch the Indy 500 than the Monaco GP, that's for sure.

[Frood]

How many F1 drivers have ever raced on an oval? None.

Where would they learn these skills driving in Europe? They wouldn't. There isn't a series on the continent that teaches it.

Pipedream? 1000%

Hülkenberg and Räikkönen definitely have.

[PayasYouRace]

How many F1 drivers have ever raced on an oval? None.

 

Where would they learn these skills driving in Europe? They wouldn't. There isn't a series on the continent that teaches it.

 

Pipedream? 1000%

 

What exactly are you asking here? There have been many F1 drivers who have raced on ovals. There have even been a significant number, including at least 2 world champions, who had raced on ovals prior to racing in F1.

 

Do you mean the current drivers? Even then, Kimi Raikkonen has done a couple of NASCAR races at Charlotte (that's an oval).

 

 

Hülkenberg and Räikkönen definitely have.

 

What was Hulkenberg's oval experience?