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Your Top 10 Drivers of the 2010s


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#51 P123

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Posted 05 December 2019 - 22:40

Not a very strong driver decade this one. Of course Hamilton stands out as the driver with the best results, but the lack of serious opposition somehow taints his achievements.
Alonso was the best driver IMO, however, he achieved nothing during this decade. Who else? Probably Verstappen.
I simply do not know where to list Vettel. I think it is too soon to list Leclerc after only two seasons.
From the above lists has Massa been completly forgotten? How come Perez and Hülkenberg are listed and Massa is ignored?


Massa probably isn't listed because the only teammate he defeated during the decade was Lance Stroll, and only just. Most people don't list Bottas, or list him in the lower reaches of the top 10, so that doesn't leave much room for Massa, who was outclassed by Bottas. Seems Massa's peak was in the noughties.

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#52 Radion

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Posted 05 December 2019 - 22:55

Don't know about any List but Webbo had championship winning cars for four years straight, couldn't take advantage of that let alone finish second in the wdc. Not worthy of a top 10 mention IMO.



#53 Brawn BGP 001

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Posted 05 December 2019 - 22:58

1. L Hamilton (made this his era, 2011 and parts of 2013 only blemishes.)

2. S Vettel (dropped off after 18 but dominated the early part)

3. F Alonso (career choices ended his chanches of a championship but strong driving as per)

4. M Verstappen (last two years very close to Hamilton level)

5. N Rosberg (Hamilton's closest test in quali and races, Champ in '16 but felt he was personally stronger in '13 and '14)

6. J Button (Faired up well v Hamilton and had strong 2011, 2013 and 2014 seasons, dissiluslioned by 2016)

7. D Ricciardo (revelation at Red Bull in 2014 good battle with Verstappen in 16/17. struggled a bit more in 2018, move to Renault not paying off in results but will be looking at 2021)

8. S Perez (midfield monster, in another era would have two or three wins)

9. V Bottas (Good driver in resurgent Williams, this eras Berger/Barrichello)

10. Hard to give somebody this

 

Leclerc is very close to joining the list but can I put a guy in after two seasons and hes still raw in races, couldn't put Hulk in due to his mental block in big moments but he was a very soild driver, Raikkonen was a dissapointment at Ferrari after stong 2012/13, amazing he's still around and perfroming at a good level,  Grosjean had good years from 2013-2016, but his looked awful recently in terms of incidents, Kubica would have definatley been here after 2010 and his switch to Ferrari in 2012 would be the great what if of F1, his comeback was admirable but will be on the weakest seasons of the decade from a driver. Massa and Webber were a lot better in the 2000s and in the 2010s were both disspointments. Sainz had strong 2016, 2017 and 2019 seasons but need to see more from him, the rest didn't race enough or are not worthy of dicussion in my view.

 

My dissapointments were S Vandoorne, P Maldonando (guy had incredible speed but no brain), B Senna, P Weherlin.


Edited by Brawn BGP 001, 05 December 2019 - 23:27.


#54 PlayboyRacer

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Posted 06 December 2019 - 01:29

I think Leclerc can be placed in the top 10 if someone believes he's shown enough. Why should his inexperience count him out? If the level of performance/results is of an exceptional nature, then go for it. I think 2 wins (a 3rd one lost) and 7 poles in only a second season, getting the better of the man 3rd in my list, is exceptional.

1. Hamilton
2. Alonso
3. Vettel
4. N.Rosberg
5. Verstappen
6. Ricciardo
7. Button
8. Bottas
9. Leclerc
10. Kubica (solely off 2010)

Any placement of Alonso outside the top 3 and Mark Webber inside the top 10 I have a hard time taking seriously.

Edited by PlayboyRacer, 06 December 2019 - 01:53.


#55 l2k2

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Posted 06 December 2019 - 03:33

When you make such a list, it's easy to remember the last 3-4 years a lot better than the first few years of the '10's...

 

This is so true, and it is fairly hard to fight such mental bias. To limit my bias, I first drafted a preliminary list: WDC medals, where ties are solved by first to reach the final count.

 
1. Hamilton 5 1 0
2. Vettel 4 2 1
3. Rosberg 1 2 0 (In my opinion, a correct location. TBH, if one puts Hamilton to the top, where he belongs in this decade, Rosberg just has to be in the top three.)
 
4. Alonso 0 3 0 (Unexpectedly, no surprises here. Often close, but no cigar.)
5. Bottas 0 1 1 (This is the first guy who feels out of place, far too high. Mostly because of 2018, and making it only fifth with the team mate winning the title.)
6. Button 0 1 0
 
7. Webber 0 0 3 (This is also too high a place, in my opinion. Was declining already from the start of the decade. Stupid mistake to lose the title on 2010 by finding the wall in the rain, and then only sixth on 2012 when Vettel took his third title.) 
8. Ricciardo 0 0 2
9. Räikkönen 0 0 2
10. Verstappen 0 0 1 (Rising star, but well, some of the others have had full decade to impress, and that just has to also count when scoring a decade and not a single year.)
 
Hmm... mostly good list, but something seems of. It rewards too much being the weaker driver in the best car. Let me fix this by only score the better driver from each team, and we get medals as follows (mistakes possible, last digit of years in parenthesis):
 
1. Hamilton 5-0-3 (45789, -, 03)
2. Vettel 4-3-1 (0123, 578, 6)
3. Rosberg 1-0-0 (6, -, -)
 
4. Alonso 0-3-1 (-, 023, 1)
5. Ricciardo 0-2-1 (-, 46, 7)
6. Verstappen 0-1-1 (-, 9, 8)
7. Button 0-1-0 (-, 1, -)
 
8. Bottas 0-0-2 (-, -, 45)
9. Räikkönen 0-0-1 (-, -, 2)
10. Leclerc 0-0-1 (-, -, 9)
 
To me, this seems about right. It heavily penalises a driver for having too good a teammate, but after all, the first goal is to beat your own teammate as if you cannot do it you will never win the title.
 
The decade was first Vettel's and then Hamilton's. Ranking the whole decade: I would be fine with either order, as for quite a few years the two were only split by the quality of the car. Both lost to their top level teammates twice. Ranking current form, though, just one word, Hamilton.
 
Rosberg scored on his gamble, by taking one round from the top dog of the decade. (The McLaren in 2011, unfortunately for Button, was not fast enough.)
 
Alonsos biggest failure was to bet the wrong horse (which did not prance in the 2010s). Similarly, Ricciardo was too late to join the RBR. Verstappen and Leclerc did well, but were only present at top level for a fraction near the end of the decade.
 
Räikkönen and Bottas, on the other hand, could not beat top level teammates, and only scored early on for the weaker teams with weaker teammates.
 
Curating the list by hand, my list for the decade is:
 
1. Hamilton
1. Vettel
 
3. Rosberg
 
4. Alonso
4. Button
4. Ricciardo
 
7. Leclerc
7. Verstappen
 
9. Bottas
9. Räikkönen

 

Tied places are in alphabetical order, on a purpose. I did not feel there to be enough to properly separate the drivers.

 

EDIT: Fixed a typo. Also, Rosberg is separated by those in fourth place only by virtue of better success, i.e., luck. But, I think plain success is too important part of greatness to be ignored. And, of course, beating both Hamilton and Schumacher over a reasonably long time window and in the same car... just has to count to something.


Edited by l2k2, 06 December 2019 - 03:38.


#56 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 06 December 2019 - 16:31

1. Hamilton - 5 titles, says pretty much everything. The best driver this decade, unquestionable.

2. Alonso - Should have had the 2010 and 2012 titles, but unfortunately didn’t. Wasted the rest of his career from 2015 onwards, but still second best this decade.

3. Vettel - Four world titles and besides 2014 and 2019 was very strong this decade.

4. Rosberg - A world title against arguable one of the best drivers ever, he also held his own against that driver.

5. Verstappen - Has only been around since 2015, so only 5th on the list. Still, has shown he’s very fast.

6. Button - Didn’t do too shabby in 2010 to 2014.

7. Raikkonen - Can’t believe so many don’t have him on their list. Very strong in 2012 and 2013 and very solid in 2016 and 2018.

8. Ricciardo - Pretty strong in 2014, 2016 and 2017.

9. Bottas - 2014 was very strong and has shown he is a solid driver who can win races..

10. Perez - Undoubtedly the best midfield driver of this decade. His 2015, 2016 and 2017 seasons were very strong.

 

Honourable mention for a driver like Grosjean. Between 2012 and 2017 he also was one of the best midfield drivers.


Edited by DutchQuicksilver, 06 December 2019 - 16:37.


#57 Mauseri

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Posted 06 December 2019 - 18:33

1. Hamilton

2. Vettel

3. Rosberg

4. Alonso

5. Raikkonen

6. Bottas

7. Ricciardo

8. Webber

9. Verstappen

10. Button



#58 alainsfoot

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Posted 07 December 2019 - 07:05

great topic and really interesting replies!

for mine alonso and hamilton are head and shoulders above the rest, arguments for both as the best are valid.

the driver that i find hard to get my head around is vettel.

he won 4 drivers championships in the decade which is an outstanding achievement by any measure.

but at the same time he has been beaten by ricciardo and leclerc and webber was his match in the season before the blown diffuser. hardly the stuff of a dominant driver.

so for mine, seeing him above ricciardo and leclerc seems illogical, but, his championships have to count too.

but him being above alonso or hamilton, with their sustained excellence is a nonsense.

 

so i would put verstappen, ricciardo, button and rosberg ahead of vettel at 3,4,5,6 and vettel 7.


Edited by alainsfoot, 07 December 2019 - 07:17.


#59 theflyingwheel

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Posted 07 December 2019 - 07:46

great topic and really interesting replies!
for mine alonso and hamilton are head and shoulders above the rest, arguments for both as the best are valid.
the driver that i find hard to get my head around is vettel.
he won 4 drivers championships in the decade which is an outstanding achievement by any measure.
but at the same time he has been beaten by ricciardo and leclerc and webber was his match in the season before the blown diffuser. hardly the stuff of a dominant driver.
so for mine, seeing him above ricciardo and leclerc seems illogical, but, his championships have to count too.
but him being above alonso or hamilton, with their sustained excellence is a nonsense.

so i would put verstappen, ricciardo, button and rosberg ahead of vettel at 3,4,5,6 and vettel 7.


I mean Vettel by no means is the 1 in this decade but he was champion with an arguably less dominant car than the mercedes, while yes its true that he got beaten by ricciardo who was beaten by Kvyat and JEV but that is generally overlooked, Button doesn't rank higher despite beating both Alonso and Hamilton while Rosberg is rarely seen in the top 5 despite beating fair and square a Lewis Hamilton in a Mercedes and although its a good starting point I wouldn't rate intra team battles that relevant when ranking drivers.

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#60 shure

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Posted 07 December 2019 - 13:21

Tough one over the whole decade - it's quite hard to remember a time when Mercedes weren't dominating!

 

  1. Alonso.  Still one of the greatest ever drivers for me and a shame his cars let him down.  But even in the dogs he drove in the later years his brilliance often shone though, while when he was in a competitive car he fought tooth and nail. 
  2. Hamilton - for me a bit difficult to judge as he's had unquestionably the best team since 2014 and hasn't had to really extend himself that much.  But he's been very consistent and pretty much always delivers
  3. Vettel.  Lost a lot of his shine lately but he did dominate at the beginning of the decade and four titles is not to be sneezed at
  4. Verstappen.  Was tempted to put him one or two rungs higher and I think he has the potential to be the next Senna.  I believe he's the fastest guy on the grid and the Red Bull wouldn't look anywhere near as good as it does without him in it, but he's only been racing since 2015.  He's that good, though
  5. Button.  Some superb racecraft let down by sensitivity to the car (although he's not alone in that).  An asset to any team
  6. Ricciardo.  Could potentially be a bit higher and immensely capable but where others see great overtakes I see divebombs and I think he relies far too much on the other driver getting out of the way.  Gets the job done, though and definitely has talent
  7. Leclerc.  The fact that he gets a mention despite only being in F1 for a couple of years is a testament both to his talent and the paucity of truly top drivers on the grid
  8. Raikkonen.  Wish I could put him higher but disappointed too many times.  If Button was too sensitive to the car that counts double for Kimi.  Nevertheless, his talent showed through in getting wins where his team mate couldn't.  Biggest kryptionite was the tyres IMO
  9. Rosberg.  On paper he should be higher when you look at his stats but although he was undeniably fast his racing talent left me cold.  Luck helped him beat Hamilton and if the Mercs had anything remotely resembling competition he wouldn't have looked anywhere near as impressive.
  10. Webber.  Personally I think he's better than Rosberg but didn't make the most of the car he had.  But still a strong racer and better than most


#61 Anuity

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Posted 07 December 2019 - 14:25

1. Vettel

2. Hamilton

3. Alonso

 

 

4. Rosberg 

 

5. Verstappen

6. Raikkonen

7. Ricciardo

 

 

8. Button

9. Perez

10. Bottas

 

 

Massa is a great driver but this decade he was not that good anymore. Webber was pretty mediocre.



#62 BobbyRicky

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Posted 07 December 2019 - 14:36

1. Hamilton

2. Alonso

3. Vettel.

4-10: Raikkönen, Massa, Rosberg, Ricciardo, Button, Maxstappen, Bottas in no particular order.


Edited by BobbyRicky, 07 December 2019 - 14:36.


#63 MKSixer

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Posted 07 December 2019 - 14:38

I think Leclerc can be placed in the top 10 if someone believes he's shown enough. Why should his inexperience count him out? If the level of performance/results is of an exceptional nature, then go for it. I think 2 wins (a 3rd one lost) and 7 poles in only a second season, getting the better of the man 3rd in my list, is exceptional.

1. Hamilton
2. Alonso
3. Vettel
4. N.Rosberg
5. Verstappen
6. Ricciardo
7. Button
8. Bottas
9. Leclerc
10. Kubica (solely off 2010)

Any placement of Alonso outside the top 3 and Mark Webber inside the top 10 I have a hard time taking seriously.

Solid. 



#64 Requiem84

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Posted 07 December 2019 - 14:51

1. Vettel
2. Hamilton
3. Alonso


4. Rosberg

5. Verstappen
6. Raikkonen
7. Ricciardo


8. Button
9. Perez
10. Bottas


Massa is a great driver but this decade he was not that good anymore. Webber was pretty mediocre.


Why do you feel Vettel deserves the 1st spot?

#65 statman

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Posted 07 December 2019 - 15:17

1. Hamilton

2. Vettel

3. Verstappen

4. Alonso

5. Rosberg

6. Button

7. Ricciardo

8. Raikkonen

9. Webber

10. Bottas



#66 Sterzo

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Posted 07 December 2019 - 17:08

1. Hamilton - 5 titles, says pretty much everything. The best driver this decade, unquestionable.

2. Alonso - Should have had the 2010 and 2012 titles, but unfortunately didn’t. Wasted the rest of his career from 2015 onwards, but still second best this decade.

3. Vettel - Four world titles and besides 2014 and 2019 was very strong this decade.

4. Rosberg - A world title against arguable one of the best drivers ever, he also held his own against that driver.

5. Verstappen - Has only been around since 2015, so only 5th on the list. Still, has shown he’s very fast.

6. Button - Didn’t do too shabby in 2010 to 2014.

7. Raikkonen - Can’t believe so many don’t have him on their list. Very strong in 2012 and 2013 and very solid in 2016 and 2018.

8. Ricciardo - Pretty strong in 2014, 2016 and 2017.

9. Bottas - 2014 was very strong and has shown he is a solid driver who can win races..

10. Perez - Undoubtedly the best midfield driver of this decade. His 2015, 2016 and 2017 seasons were very strong.

 

Honourable mention for a driver like Grosjean. Between 2012 and 2017 he also was one of the best midfield drivers.

This feels right, somehow. I might quibble and reshuffle Rosberg and Verstappen, but that's minor. In the unlikely event that you stand for election as UK prime minister, DutchQuicksilver, I woud trust your judgement enough to vote for you.



#67 Marklar

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Posted 07 December 2019 - 18:29

I find it strange that Kubica is on so many lists. Sure, his 2010 was brilliant, but is it enough to offset 2019 and the fact that he wasnt there those other 8 years?

#68 thefinalapex

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Posted 07 December 2019 - 19:09

I find it strange that Kubica is on so many lists. Sure, his 2010 was brilliant, but is it enough to offset 2019 and the fact that he wasnt there those other 8 years?


Agreed, kubica is more a what could have been story.

#69 Bloggsworth

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Posted 07 December 2019 - 19:16

Hamilton an unarguable winner, but for Maclaren's cock-up in Ch[na, plus a dubious demotion, Hamiton would have won the title in his first season. For me, Alonso's character ruined his career, he sowed dissention wherever he went.



#70 Fatgadget

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Posted 07 December 2019 - 19:19

Another decade in F1 draws to a close and it provides a chance to reflect on the performances we have seen over that period of time, and to rank order the leading participants. I’ll have a first stab.

1. Hamilton
The obvious choice but the right choice. Since at least 2014 Hamilton has been F1’s supreme talent, seeing off all comers and, like Senna before him, dominating things so naturally and effortlessly than it appears as though it is the errors of others that allow him to prevail so much. Able to play the percentage games when required and (unlike some others) has never allowed a team mate to live inside his head rent free. Learns from his mistakes too. The Spa 2012 tantrum that saw him tweet Button’s telemetry has never really been repeated. This too differentiates him from certain others.

2. Alonso
Relatively few wins in the 2010s and a career that petered out in the midfield (or worse) should not blind us to the reality that in terms of “what he did with what he had” Alonso delivered some miraculous drives this decade. There were the unlikely victories at Sepang and Valencia in 2012 but also routinely dragging the 2011 and 2014 Ferraris to places they had no business being. But even at McLaren there were drives like Austin in 2016 that delivered absurdly good results, Like Hamilton, he learned from earlier experiences and his form never really dipped, even in the mire of 2017 and 2018.

3. Verstappen
Speaking of “what he did with what he had”... Verstappen is currently the only driver on anything like Hamilton’s level and shows unbelievable levels of maturity and leadership for his age. Fearless and ruthless in battle, but with the ability to justify it. Austria, Germany, Hungary and Brazil this year alone prove that.

4. Vettel
4 WDCs and 50-odd wins cannot be ignored, although too often Vettel gives us reason *to* ignore them. Unbeatable (even by Hamilton) with a car to his liking and a team mate who is nowhere but too often his head seems to melt without those conditions, leaving us one of the sport’s more unfathomable talents.

5. Rosberg
Underrated, even when he was at Williams, Rosberg maximised what he had to win his title and was astute enough to realise that he could never reach that sustained level again. Again, unbeatable on a good day, especially at Monaco, but lacking on others.

6. Ricciardo
Very able and showed Vettel a clean pair of heels in 2014 but as time goes by I’m less convinced he has quite the ‘killer’ instinct of the top three. Brilliant at places like Hungary that reward improvisation and tenacity, less so at some of the more clinical environments like Abu Dhabi.

7. Leclerc
Very difficult to judge someone in only his second year but has done enough to mark him out as an obvious Ferrari team leader in the future.

8. Button
Another driver who was unbeatable on his day and nowhere on others. Performed very well against Hamilton for a long time but I always had the sense that one title was enough for Jenson and he was happy picking up a few wins after that.

9. Hulkenberg
Perhaps Nico has been making the numbers up a little of late, but we forget that he stuck the 2010 Williams on pole and achieved the same feat in a Force India two years later, before being talked up as a Ferrari contender during his 2013 year at Sauber, for which he merits inclusion in this list.

10. Webber
What happened to Webber after 2010? Did the loss of the title that year knock his confidence? Drove superbly in the RBR tinderbox until Korea 2010 and therefore ends up in this list, but hr never seemed to be quite the same after that.

And no Raikkonen in that list?Eish!..A man amongst the select few who won a championship..yet you have Hulkenberg who didn't even sniff at a race win never mind a podium throughout his whole CAREER?....Care to share what you are smoking please!  :eek:
 


Edited by Fatgadget, 07 December 2019 - 19:34.


#71 Fatgadget

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Posted 07 December 2019 - 19:39

Massa probably isn't listed because the only teammate he defeated during the decade was Lance Stroll, and only just. Most people don't list Bottas, or list him in the lower reaches of the top 10, so that doesn't leave much room for Massa, who was outclassed by Bottas. Seems Massa's peak was in the noughties.

How about the year he went toe to toe with Hamilton and almost won the championship?...I think he only lost his mojo after that accident.



#72 PayasYouRace

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Posted 07 December 2019 - 19:50

And no Raikkonen in that list?Eish!..A man amongst the select few who won a championship..yet you have Hulkenberg who didn't even sniff at a race win never mind a podium throughout his whole CAREER?....Care to share what you are smoking please!  :eek:
 

 

We are talking about this decade though, so Raikkonen's championship era isn't under consideration.



#73 Anderis

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Posted 07 December 2019 - 19:58

 

Rosberg.  On paper he should be higher when you look at his stats but although he was undeniably fast his racing talent left me cold.  Luck helped him beat Hamilton and if the Mercs had anything remotely resembling competition he wouldn't have looked anywhere near as impressive.

Merc had a lot of competition in 2013 and in that season Nico looked pretty good against Hamilton.



#74 Marklar

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Posted 07 December 2019 - 20:00

And no Raikkonen in that list?Eish!..A man amongst the select few who won a championship..yet you have Hulkenberg who didn't even sniff at a race win never mind a podium throughout his whole CAREER?....Care to share what you are smoking please! :eek:

Kimi didnt win a title in this decade. And was clearly outperformed by Alonso, Vettel, towards the end at Lotus even by Grosjean, and now at Alfa Giovinazzi is getting closer and closer too. So yes, Hulkenberg looked more impressive to me this decade.

If it was about the 2000s he would be undoubtely top 3 (at worst top 4) though.

Merc had a lot of competition in 2013 and in that season Nico looked pretty good against Hamilton.

Hamilton clearly struggled to adapt to his new team though. It was probably the only year where his speed was really in doubt.

Edited by Marklar, 07 December 2019 - 20:02.


#75 FF89

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Posted 07 December 2019 - 20:31

I think it is wrong to set Hulkenberg in the top 10, and leave Bottas out.

 

Hulkenberg had opportunities, but he didn't use them.

Bottas, for example, beat Massas every year and took 45 podiums. I would say Bottas is one of the most underrated drivers ever.


Edited by FF89, 07 December 2019 - 20:35.


#76 messy

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Posted 07 December 2019 - 20:35

It's a joke to place Hulkenberg in the top 10 and leave Bottas out.
 
Hulkenberg had opportunities, but he didn't use them.Bottas, for example, beat Massas every year and took 45 podiums. I would say Bottas is one of the most underrated drivers ever.


It’s because he’s (generally) not quite as good against Lewis as Rosberg was, I think.

That means he gets pegged as a 7/10er for lots of people.

#77 FF89

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Posted 07 December 2019 - 20:55

It’s because he’s (generally) not quite as good against Lewis as Rosberg was, I think.

That means he gets pegged as a 7/10er for lots of people.

 

Bottas should still easily be ahead of Hulkenberg on this list.

 

Today Hamilton is better than ever. Bottas place is the hardest in the whole series.
 



#78 PlatenGlass

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Posted 07 December 2019 - 22:57

I find it strange that Kubica is on so many lists. Sure, his 2010 was brilliant, but is it enough to offset 2019 and the fact that he wasnt there those other 8 years?

2019 is irrelevant for me in the same way that I don't consider 2010-2012 for Schumacher's overall greatness.

It was only one year but that's pretty much the same as Leclerc and after my top 8 (Hamilton, Alonso, Verstappen, Vettel, Rosberg, Ricciardo, Button, Bottas) the last two places were very much up for grabs.

#79 ANF

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Posted 07 December 2019 - 23:14

Maybe

1. Hamilton
2. Alonso
3. Vettel
4. Verstappen
5. Rosberg
6. Ricciardo
7. Leclerc
8. Webber
9. Button
10. Pérez

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#80 Marklar

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Posted 07 December 2019 - 23:34

I actually wonder, @ those who included drivers with 1-2 seasons: Where would you rank Jules Bianchi? He after all looked at Marussia similar impressive as Leclerc at Sauber.

#81 PlatenGlass

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Posted 07 December 2019 - 23:45

I actually wonder, @ those who included drivers with 1-2 seasons: Where would you rank Jules Bianchi? He after all looked at Marussia similar impressive as Leclerc at Sauber.

I'd have to check again, but I seem to remember Chilton running him close at times. Other than that he was a bit anonymous because of his car, like Russell. So hard to judge. Leclerc at Sauber had a car that more allowed him to get stuck in. Not Bianchi's fault, but I think we never really saw enough to judge him properly.

#82 goldenboy

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 00:04

1. Vettel
2. Hamilton
3. Alonso


4. Rosberg

5. Verstappen
6. Raikkonen
7. Ricciardo


8. Button
9. Perez
10. Bottas


Massa is a great driver but this decade he was not that good anymore. Webber was pretty mediocre.

Vettel above Hamilton is a laugh, but both Webber and Kimi don't belong in the top 10

#83 goldenboy

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 00:06

Bottas should still easily be ahead of Hulkenberg on this list.

Today Hamilton is better than ever. Bottas place is the hardest in the whole series.

Agree. Bottas is ahead of Webber and Hulk who both should not be in the top ten (coming from a big webber fan).

Edited by goldenboy, 08 December 2019 - 00:07.


#84 Lerdes

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 01:07

1. Hamilton and Alonso
2. Verstappen
3. Rosberg
4. Button
5. Vettel

No one left - just 6.

Edited by Lerdes, 08 December 2019 - 01:07.


#85 Marklar

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 02:03

Webber is a complicated matter. While he was nowhere near Vettel's pace except of parts of 2012 (in 2010 he was okay, but considering the car he had and reliability Vettel had he should have won it), he didnt appear mega terrible despize never even getting the runner-up. It always appeared like misfortune or bad starts struck at the worst possible moments.

For the record: he is not in my top 10, but I can see arguments for having him somewhere among the midfield gods like Perez & Hulk (we saw in Perez' case especially how much harder it is against a top driver), which in most lists would be the lower end of the top 10. In the end it depends on how you rate Vettel too, if you have him 5th/6th Webber has no place in this.

Red Bull's purple patch came too late for him. In his late 20s, prior to the incident and Pirellis he would have probably been a no-brainer.

Kimi is a bit in the same ballpark. He did had strong 1.5 years at Lotus, but that was against a mentally wrecked Grosjean and Vettel was more dominant over him than against Webber imo (qualifying in 2016 aside). And he did so much worse against Alonso than Massa ever did. So I'm surprised that he appears so high up on many lists. I see him and Webber about the same.

I actually don't think that Massa was *this* bad. He actually did well in 2010 till Hockenheim, was better than Alonso in late 2012 and was pretty close over one lap in 2013. Then against Bottas he did well in 2015 and over the race distance in 2014. He was very dominant over Stroll too. Not a top 10 contender either though, simply because Bottas already is on the lower end of the top 10, but he wasnt this bad either.

Edited by Marklar, 08 December 2019 - 02:06.


#86 HeadFirst

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 02:54

I actually wonder, @ those who included drivers with 1-2 seasons: Where would you rank Jules Bianchi? He after all looked at Marussia similar impressive as Leclerc at Sauber.

 

As an honorable mention, like I did.



#87 rodlamas

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 03:25

I think it is wrong to set Hulkenberg in the top 10, and leave Bottas out.

Hulkenberg had opportunities, but he didn't use them.

Bottas, for example, beat Massas every year and took 45 podiums. I would say Bottas is one of the most underrated drivers ever.


This is just insane. People bash a driver with 15 podiums in a season and rate him worse than a driver with two 4th places on a decade.

#88 ForzaFormula

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 03:43

This is just insane. People bash a driver with 15 podiums in a season and rate him worse than a driver with two 4th places on a decade.


Only cause he’s loosing to Hamilton, mostly. People are weird and unfounded in their ways of thinking based on hate / bitterness.

#89 goldenboy

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 03:47

Webber is a complicated matter. While he was nowhere near Vettel's pace except of parts of 2012 (in 2010 he was okay, but considering the car he had and reliability Vettel had he should have won it), he didnt appear mega terrible despize never even getting the runner-up. It always appeared like misfortune or bad starts struck at the worst possible moments.

For the record: he is not in my top 10, but I can see arguments for having him somewhere among the midfield gods like Perez & Hulk (we saw in Perez' case especially how much harder it is against a top driver), which in most lists would be the lower end of the top 10. In the end it depends on how you rate Vettel too, if you have him 5th/6th Webber has no place in this.

Red Bull's purple patch came too late for him. In his late 20s, prior to the incident and Pirellis he would have probably been a no-brainer.

Kimi is a bit in the same ballpark. He did had strong 1.5 years at Lotus, but that was against a mentally wrecked Grosjean and Vettel was more dominant over him than against Webber imo (qualifying in 2016 aside). And he did so much worse against Alonso than Massa ever did. So I'm surprised that he appears so high up on many lists. I see him and Webber about the same.

I actually don't think that Massa was *this* bad. He actually did well in 2010 till Hockenheim, was better than Alonso in late 2012 and was pretty close over one lap in 2013. Then against Bottas he did well in 2015 and over the race distance in 2014. He was very dominant over Stroll too. Not a top 10 contender either though, simply because Bottas already is on the lower end of the top 10, but he wasnt this bad either.

I rate webber higher than kimi this last decade, but he obviously never got close to kimi's level in the previous decade. I put webber just outside top ten but ahead of kimi and hulk.

#90 masa90

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 07:58

1 Hamilton
2 Vettel
3 Rosberg
4 Verstappen
5 Alonso
6 Ricciardo
7 Kimi
8 Button
9 Bottas
10 Perez

#91 barzini

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 08:13

And was clearly outperformed by Alonso, Vettel, towards the end at Lotus even by Grosjean, and now at Alfa Giovinazzi is getting closer.


Aha! Soon we will start to read that Gio actually beat Kimi in 2019 :)

Considering the bashing Seb Vettel gets here, he should be number 1. The worst driver on the grid, only Kimi is more horrible, winning 4 titles is quite impressive.

#92 wj_gibson

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 08:15

And no Raikkonen in that list?Eish!..A man amongst the select few who won a championship..yet you have Hulkenberg who didn't even sniff at a race win never mind a podium throughout his whole CAREER?....Care to share what you are smoking please!  :eek:
 

We are discussing this decade, meaning that the events of 2000-09 are not relevant.

 

IMO Raikkonen has under achieved since his return. The only team mate he has really had the measure of in that time has been Giovinazzi. It’s a far cry from his McLaren days. In 2004 I thought he was the best driver on the grid, including Schumacher.



#93 theflyingwheel

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 08:59

I think it is wrong to set Hulkenberg in the top 10, and leave Bottas out.

Hulkenberg had opportunities, but he didn't use them.

Bottas, for example, beat Massas every year and took 45 podiums. I would say Bottas is one of the most underrated drivers ever.


Its even worse to put Hulk above Perez who beat both of them (bottas) in similar circumstances although in Bottas defense he has race wins but who wouldnt in the best team of the decade

#94 Requiem84

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 09:01

Hulk can’t be in any top 10 list imo.

He choked often and never convincingly beat a strong team mate.

#95 theflyingwheel

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 09:24

Hulk can’t be in any top 10 list imo.

He choked often and never convincingly beat a strong team mate.


He beat Perez in 2014

#96 ANF

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 10:52

I actually wonder, @ those who included drivers with 1-2 seasons: Where would you rank Jules Bianchi? He after all looked at Marussia similar impressive as Leclerc at Sauber.

If it was a top 25 I'd probably rank Bianchi somewhere in the Bottas–Massa–Hülkenberg mix maybe. He was very good on occasions, but I think Leclerc is on another level.

#97 Requiem84

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 10:59

Leclerc wouldn’t be in this list based on only his Sauber drive.

Bianchi never got to show how good he might have been sadly. So no place for him based on the (strong) Marussia season.

#98 noikeee

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 11:13

This is just insane. People bash a driver with 15 podiums in a season and rate him worse than a driver with two 4th places on a decade.


It's almost as if drivers get different cars through a career and judged accordingly.

#99 CountDooku

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 11:15

Not a very strong driver decade this one. Of course Hamilton stands out as the driver with the best results, but the lack of serious opposition somehow taints his achievements.
Alonso was the best driver IMO, however, he achieved nothing during this decade. Who else? Probably Verstappen.
I simply do not know where to list Vettel. I think it is too soon to list Leclerc after only two seasons.
From the above lists has Massa been completly forgotten? How come Perez and Hülkenberg are listed and Massa is ignored?


Eh? I would argue that the 2010s have had the best ever drivers racing together in F1. And what’s more, because of their longevity we have seen them compete on track!

Remind me of a comparable period with drivers of the quality of Hamilton, Alonso, Vettel, Rosberg, Schumacher, Raikkonen, Verstappen and Button racing TOGETHER? It’s better than the Senna, Prost, Mansell era and better than the Clark, Hill, Stewart era.

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#100 noikeee

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 12:23

Eh? I would argue that the 2010s have had the best ever drivers racing together in F1. And what’s more, because of their longevity we have seen them compete on track!

Remind me of a comparable period with drivers of the quality of Hamilton, Alonso, Vettel, Rosberg, Schumacher, Raikkonen, Verstappen and Button racing TOGETHER? It’s better than the Senna, Prost, Mansell era and better than the Clark, Hill, Stewart era.

 
The 1960s featured all-time legends Clark, Stewart, Moss and Rindt; multiple world champions Brabham and Graham Hill; the also world champions Surtees, Phil Hill and Hulme; world class drivers and/or championship contenders Gurney, McLaren, Ickx, Brooks, Amon, von Trips; the Verstappen of his era tragely killed early Pedro Rodriguez; grand prix winners Bandini, Baghetti, Ginther, Ireland, Scarfiotti, Siffert and Beltoise; and even early cameo appearances by Mario Andretti. And the decade caught pretty much all but Andretti at their peaks (not the case for the 2010s - Schumacher and Raikkonen were nowhere near their peak anymore).
 
The 1970s and 1980s were similar in depth of big name drivers.
 
So, no, the 2010s are not super special historically in driver talent, apart from the effects of the natural evolution of the sport over the decades. Although I get it that the 2010s gave far fewer opportunities for drivers to shine than previous historical eras (otherwise the likes of Perez and Hulkenberg would be GP winners), due to insane Red Bull and Mercedes domination and stale team-mate partnerships that lasted for 4, 5, 6 seasons locking top cars for themselves. Which by the way also rebuts your argument that the 2010s were special because they gave the opportunity for drivers to "compete on track". Not much competition on track when even Alonso, who most people are naming #2 in this list, basically spent the entire decade looking at Vettel/Hamilton from far away in uber dominant spaceships. I do think the 2010s were competitive driver-wise but this domination situation is more reminiscent of the 1950s than any other decade - with Fangio and Ascari murdering everyone by a massive distance, not letting anyone else make their name.

Edited by noikeee, 08 December 2019 - 12:23.