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Your Top 10 Drivers of the 2010s


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#101 noriaki

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 12:38

Eh? I would argue that the 2010s have had the best ever drivers racing together in F1. And what’s more, because of their longevity we have seen them compete on track!

Remind me of a comparable period with drivers of the quality of Hamilton, Alonso, Vettel, Rosberg, Schumacher, Raikkonen, Verstappen and Button racing TOGETHER? It’s better than the Senna, Prost, Mansell era and better than the Clark, Hill, Stewart era.

 

Well I do think this is one of the strongest eras in F1 driver quality wise - if not the strongest - but it's a bit difficult to argue against the 2010's when you put Schumacher and Verstappen in the same "era".

 

The only year all of those (minus Verstappen) raced TOGETHER in comparable equipment was 2012, and F1 history wise, even that's hardly unique. Even 1985 had Prost, Lauda, Mansell, Rosberg, Piquet, and Senna fighting at the top. And for example 1967 had Brabham, Hulme, Rindt, Stewart, G Hill, Clark, Gurney and Surtees all in competitive cars. 



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#102 Requiem84

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 13:23

I think you underestimated Bottas.

Don't you remember his Williams days. He won Felipe every season and drive really good races.


What has Bottas got to do with Hulk?

#103 FF89

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 13:31

What has Bottas got to do with Hulk?

Sorry, i quote the wrong message.


Edited by FF89, 08 December 2019 - 13:32.


#104 garoidb

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 13:33

Well I do think this is one of the strongest eras in F1 driver quality wise - if not the strongest - but it's a bit difficult to argue against the 2010's when you put Schumacher and Verstappen in the same "era".

 

The only year all of those (minus Verstappen) raced TOGETHER in comparable equipment was 2012, and F1 history wise, even that's hardly unique. Even 1985 had Prost, Lauda, Mansell, Rosberg, Piquet, and Senna fighting at the top. And for example 1967 had Brabham, Hulme, Rindt, Stewart, G Hill, Clark, Gurney and Surtees all in competitive cars. 

 

Alan Jones also raced in a few Grands Prix at the end of 1985, albeit not in a competitive car. The ones you mentioned all won at least one Grand Prix that year, so are more worthy of mention and it was probably a high spot. Mario Andretti and Emerson Fittipaldi won races in CART that year also, so a very interesting time. 



#105 Button4life

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 13:45

I can’t take anyone seriously that has Kimi in the top 10. He only had one strong season this decade and that was 2012. I think he underperformed in 2013. Especially the 2nd half of that season. We all know what happened between 2014 and 18...

#106 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 14:08

I can’t take anyone seriously that has Kimi in the top 10. He only had one strong season this decade and that was 2012. I think he underperformed in 2013. Especially the 2nd half of that season. We all know what happened between 2014 and 18...

 


Well, then loads of other drivers shouldn’t be in the top ten. Button for example, was only really good in 2011. Rosberg only in 2016, and so on.

#107 Marklar

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 14:12


Well, then loads of other drivers shouldn’t be in the top ten. Button for example, was only really good in 2011. Rosberg only in 2016, and so on.

That's nonsense.

Button was better than Hamilton in 2011, matched Alonso in 2015. Destroyed Perez & Magnussen. His only weak seasons were 2010, 2012 & 2016 and even those were much better than Kimi's weak seasons.

Rosberg beat Schumacher through 2010-2012, was as good as Hamilton in 2013 and then was much closer to Hamilton in the following seasons than Kimi ever was against Alonso or Vettel.

Huge difference imo.

#108 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 14:39

I was merely making a point that Kimi wasn’t as bad as many are making it seem. 2014 and 2015 were really poor I agree, with 2017 not very strong either. But he had enough strong seasons this decade to warrant him a place in the top ten.

#109 Button4life

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 14:55

I was merely making a point that Kimi wasn’t as bad as many are making it seem. 2014 and 2015 were really poor I agree, with 2017 not very strong either. But he had enough strong seasons this decade to warrant him a place in the top ten.

 


Kimi has had many average to mediocre seasons. Being comfortable beaten by Vettel who's been 'exposed and overrated' this season according to this forum. Drivers like Bottas, Hulkenberg and Perez all were consisently good to decent this decade. Still they're getting rated lower than Kimi.

#110 masa90

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 14:55

Well this cool thread derailed quickly. Sad, but not surprising.

#111 HP

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 15:01

The one that I find hardest to place is Alonso. His race craft is among the best. He could have won more championships had the dice dropped a bit differently.  Hamilton however, which is my top spot, beat him in his rookie season. From there it seemed to go all down hill. His stint at Ferrari produced no championship as I expected. Hence I wasn't happy that he joined Maranello at all. No team that is changing will do well when they have to deal with a driver that requires the kind of attention Alonso deserves. It puts extra stress on everyone. Only Briatore seemingly could manage him well, so that Alonso could do what he does best. One decade without a championship, for a driver of his capability, cannot be simply about external circumstances alone. Alonso can adapt very well to any car, but precisely that ability is another reason that wasn't helpful for his championship ambitions. With the small margins of today's cars, how does one choose the best development direction for a driver like Alonso?

 

Because of that I put Vettel 2nd, Alonso 3rd.

 

More need not be on my list. The new talents ( starting with Verstappen ) deserve their own rankings. The rest was there, but didn't cut it in the long run.



#112 ANF

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 15:02

Well this cool thread derailed quickly. Sad, but not surprising.

Like Felipe Massa on a bad day.

#113 Marklar

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 15:12

I can't see how Alonso can be placed outside the top 2.

His 2010 was so-so, but so was Vettel's, and Hamilton's was only a bit better. His 2011 was excellent, just like Vettel's, while Hamilton's was bad. His 2012 is one of the best ever perhaps, Hamilton's was great too, Vettel's so-so. is 2013 was again excellent, just (perhaps a bit worse) like Vettel's and quite clearly better than Hamilton's. His 2014 was yet again excellent, Hamilton's as well, Vettel's not much.

-> Basically in the first half of the decade he was pretty much always excellent (except of 2010) while the other two were taking turns in being good and disappointing.

Then in 2015 it gets hard to judge because the car broke down every race, but what was judgable was very good, just like Hamilton's and Vettel's performance. 2016 was again brilliant, at or slightly below Hamilton's level and clearly better than Vettel. 2017 he was again excellent, especially in the first half, again not being much worse than Hamilton, if at all (Vettel a bit behind), he whitewashed Vandoorne in 2018, wasnt as brilliant as Hamilton, but easily the next best and far better than Vettel

-> In the 2nd part he stayed excellent, while Vettel had much more and bigger lows, effectively cementing his place behind Alonso. If you dont rate Hamilton's performances that highly in that period you could even put Alonso in first.


Edited by Marklar, 08 December 2019 - 15:13.


#114 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 15:25

Kimi has had many average to mediocre seasons. Being comfortable beaten by Vettel who's been 'exposed and overrated' this season according to this forum. Drivers like Bottas, Hulkenberg and Perez all were consisently good to decent this decade. Still they're getting rated lower than Kimi.

 


Consistently good doesn’t make you a top ten driver this decade. Raikkonen had some great high’s in 2012, 2013 and some races in 2016 and 2018. Those warrant a top ten position more deserving than a driver like Hulkenberg who didn’t manage one podium in his career.

#115 Mauseri

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 16:21

I can't see how Alonso can be placed outside the top 2.

Easily. Vettel was 4x1st, Alonso 2x2nd.

#116 Mauseri

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 16:32

Vettel above Hamilton is a laugh, but both Webber and Kimi don't belong in the top 10


Webber and Kimi both scored some 3rd positions in the championship. Sometimes it feels that people here don't regard it as any kind of an achievement. Better be midfield driver who does a couple lucky top-3-5 finishes per season.

Edited by Mauseri, 08 December 2019 - 16:33.


#117 Marklar

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 16:35

Easily. Vettel was 4x1st, Alonso 2x2nd.

As far as I understand we are supposed to rank the drivers, not the cars

#118 barzini

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 16:41

As far as I understand we are supposed to rank the drivers, not the cars


Driver or performance? Since you don’t hold Vettel so high surely his 4 championships shoul be impressive. He beat the living legend FA twice.

#119 Mauseri

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 17:24

As far as I understand we are supposed to rank the drivers, not the cars

I appreciate the effort of trying to remove completely the car from the equation, but most often the result is a mess.

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#120 Atreiu

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 17:32

I find it strange that Kubica is on so many lists. Sure, his 2010 was brilliant, but is it enough to offset 2019 and the fact that he wasnt there those other 8 years?


Yes, easily.

#121 Atreiu

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 17:54

I can't see how Alonso can be placed outside the top 2.

His 2010 was so-so, but so was Vettel's, and Hamilton's was only a bit better. His 2011 was excellent, just like Vettel's, while Hamilton's was bad. His 2012 is one of the best ever perhaps, Hamilton's was great too, Vettel's so-so. is 2013 was again excellent, just (perhaps a bit worse) like Vettel's and quite clearly better than Hamilton's. His 2014 was yet again excellent, Hamilton's as well, Vettel's not much.

-> Basically in the first half of the decade he was pretty much always excellent (except of 2010) while the other two were taking turns in being good and disappointing.

Then in 2015 it gets hard to judge because the car broke down every race, but what was judgable was very good, just like Hamilton's and Vettel's performance. 2016 was again brilliant, at or slightly below Hamilton's level and clearly better than Vettel. 2017 he was again excellent, especially in the first half, again not being much worse than Hamilton, if at all (Vettel a bit behind), he whitewashed Vandoorne in 2018, wasnt as brilliant as Hamilton, but easily the next best and far better than Vettel

-> In the 2nd part he stayed excellent, while Vettel had much more and bigger lows, effectively cementing his place behind Alonso. If you dont rate Hamilton's performances that highly in that period you could even put Alonso in first.

 

I don't see how people give Alonso a pass for his catastrophic decade where he squandered a wide open title shot and then overestimated his own place on the grid before spending 4 seasons in the wilderness and being 'retired'. All the while his rivals have thrived while switching teams without facing the same accusations of being toxic or leaving burnt bridges behind. The decade has come and gone with Alonso's initial rivals becoming extremely more succeful and inscribing their names all over record books. At least he got all mileage possigble out of his underdog card, more than we can say for his actual results on track.

 

"We're judging drivers, not cars". Exactly, the best cars and drivers grvitate towards each other. Top teams have shuffled their line up several times since 2010.

 

I have Alonso on the list mostly for 2012, just as Kubica is there for 2010. Both were some of the most impressive losing efforts I can remember watching.



#122 garoidb

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 18:08

I don't see how people give Alonso a pass for his catastrophic decade where he squandered a wide open title shot and then overestimated his own place on the grid before spending 4 seasons in the wilderness and being 'retired'. All the while his rivals have thrived while switching teams without facing the same accusations of being toxic or leaving burnt bridges behind. The decade has come and gone with Alonso's initial rivals becoming extremely more succeful and inscribing their names all over record books. At least he got all mileage possigble out of his underdog card, more than we can say for his actual results on track.

 

"We're judging drivers, not cars". Exactly, the best cars and drivers grvitate towards each other. Top teams have shuffled their line up several times since 2010.

 

I have Alonso on the list mostly for 2012, just as Kubica is there for 2010. Both were some of the most impressive losing efforts I can remember watching.

 

 

The bottom line is that you had to be in a Red Bull from 2011 to 2013 or in a Mercedes from 2014 to 2019. It is not the case that there were two or three teams from which championship challenges could be launched over these years. Hamilton couldn't do it when he wasn't in a Red Bull (2011-2013) and Vettel couldn't do it when he wasn't in the Mercedes (2014-date). It is easy to be in a wrong team when there is only one right team that is not under any pressure to even look at driver line-up.

 

The problem with this decade is that it has contributed little evidence to the key question of the relative standing of the major drivers involved. When this period is being looked back on, if there is enough interest for that to happen, who will Lewis Hamilton be deemed to have beaten? 



#123 Claudius

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 18:32

Yes, easily.

 

Yes, great argument.



#124 Atreiu

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 19:41

Yes, great argument.

Right? Kubica in 2010 gave a near masterclass in racecraft and opportunism while racing a car that had little business landing podiums. Every now and then a driver clearly elevates himself over his car and the field. The two greatest examples we had this decade were Kubica in 2010 and Alonso in 2012.
And in 2010 poeple weren’t second guessing their tyres every week because the supplier was making an effort to provide egshells.

Edited by Atreiu, 08 December 2019 - 19:42.


#125 Requiem84

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 20:47

How sure are the 2010 Renault was that bad?

Wasn’t the other driver a guy called Petrov?

#126 1Devil1

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 20:57

How sure are the 2010 Renault was that bad?

Wasn’t the other driver a guy called Petrov?

 

I am with you, you don't judge a driver by one season. Also Kubica was in F1 before and didn't set the world on fire like Alonso, Verstappen, Vettel despite seen as WDC-talent. He was good but Heidfeld good before. Nobody knows if he would have continued on a high after 2010. 



#127 shure

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 21:25

Right? Kubica in 2010 gave a near masterclass in racecraft and opportunism while racing a car that had little business landing podiums. Every now and then a driver clearly elevates himself over his car and the field. The two greatest examples we had this decade were Kubica in 2010 and Alonso in 2012.
And in 2010 poeple weren’t second guessing their tyres every week because the supplier was making an effort to provide egshells.

Have to be honest, I don't remember this masterclass in 2010.  I also don't remember that many people talking about it in that way at the time.  Sure, Kubica did drive well but I think "masterclass" is perhaps a little excessive.  Had a quick look at the Autosport Awards for the year and the F1 bosses voted Alonso as the best in 2010 with Kubica down in 5th place.  Not definitive of course but that's more in line with my recollection of the time



#128 noriaki

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 21:25

How sure are the 2010 Renault was that bad?

Wasn’t the other driver a guy called Petrov?


It's a fair point given Vitaly's rookie status, but then again the same Petrov that took a comprehensive beatibg from Kubica didn't look at all that bad next to Heidfeld in 2011 - arguably even outraced him - and then proceeded to do slightly better than Kovalainen in 2012.

#129 taran

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 21:27

I actually wonder, @ those who included drivers with 1-2 seasons: Where would you rank Jules Bianchi? He after all looked at Marussia similar impressive as Leclerc at Sauber.

 


I have the feeling Bianchi was slightly overrated. He was the anointed one for Ferrari and thus got the best drives in feeder series yet still got beaten by Robin Frijns in FR3.5. He did well at Marussia but was he really that much better than some of the others there like Wehrlein? Or at Caterham who put in the occasional worthy drive?

 

We have seen numerous drivers with decent potential in lower categories and/or drivers who looked good in lesser teams, only to fail when given their chance in a top team. Poor Capelli is a good example.

Bianchi might have done well or he could have been destroyed by Vettel had he gone to Ferrari. The same could have happened to Leclerc.

 

Until they are actually in such a high-pressure situation, we just don't know how they will turn out.



#130 PayasYouRace

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 21:43

Right? Kubica in 2010 gave a near masterclass in racecraft and opportunism while racing a car that had little business landing podiums. Every now and then a driver clearly elevates himself over his car and the field. The two greatest examples we had this decade were Kubica in 2010 and Alonso in 2012.
And in 2010 poeple weren’t second guessing their tyres every week because the supplier was making an effort to provide egshells.

 

Even if we all agree that Robert's 2010 season was that excellent, I don't think it's enough to cover the rest of the decade, especially when he only competed in one other season in that time and was crap.



#131 ForzaFormula

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 23:06

How sure are the 2010 Renault was that bad?

Wasn’t the other driver a guy called Petrov?


Plus kubica s last half decent team mate before that beat him overall.

#132 Retrofly

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 23:43

1. Hamilton

2. Alonso

3. Verstappen

4. Vettel

5. Rosberg

6. Button

7. Ricciardo

8. Bottas

9. Leclec

10. Perez



#133 theflyingwheel

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Posted 09 December 2019 - 04:23


Consistently good doesn’t make you a top ten driver this decade. Raikkonen had some great high’s in 2012, 2013 and some races in 2016 and 2018. Those warrant a top ten position more deserving than a driver like Hulkenberg who didn’t manage one podium in his career.


Yeah but most of Kimi decent seasons came having a strong car, see how he is doing in the midfield now, how different would he had fare had he stayed in Lotus or drove only midfield cars probably not even in the top 15 give any of the top tier midfield drivers a Ferrari or a 2013 Lotus and probably they could had done a better job or maybe not but we will never now.

#134 theflyingwheel

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Posted 09 December 2019 - 04:25

As far as I understand we are supposed to rank the drivers, not the cars


Put lewis in a catherham and lets see if he gets even in the top 15

#135 TheFish

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Posted 09 December 2019 - 09:20

I didn't put Bottas in my list purely because I forgot about him. He probably should be in the lower part of the top 10 but he's so bland and anonymous that I couldn't remember him.



#136 l2k2

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Posted 09 December 2019 - 09:24

Yeah but most of Kimi decent seasons came having a strong car, see how he is doing in the midfield now, how different would he had fare had he stayed in Lotus or drove only midfield cars probably not even in the top 15 give any of the top tier midfield drivers a Ferrari or a 2013 Lotus and probably they could had done a better job or maybe not but we will never now.


Not being in top 15 would basically require being regularly beaten by his midfield teammates? Have we even had 15 drivers that have managed to maintain their seat for the whole decade?

(Also, I think Lotus was not considered particularly strong car, it never made top 3 in constructors during those years, nor was it particularly fast in Kimi's teammates hands. I think this is the main problem in trying to “extract” the car-independent performance of a particular driver: one making the separation just assumes car strengths that suit their argument. Either Lotus is fast and Kimi is average and his teammates are plain slow, or Lotus is best of the rest and Kimi was moderately fast with about average teammates. Given that Grosjean still has an F1 seat ...)

#137 Requiem84

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Posted 09 December 2019 - 09:35

Put lewis in a catherham and lets see if he gets even in the top 15

 

That's the whole game isn't it?

 

'Guestimating' how good a car is and then making up in your mind where that car should finish. If a driver puts it above that position 'he's doing very well'. A large part of this guestimating is based on team mate comparisons from the past, which by definition is very finnicky.



#138 Rinehart

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Posted 09 December 2019 - 09:36

Put lewis in a catherham and lets see if he gets even in the top 15

Ah, but put Lewis in a Ferrari and lets see if only Red Bull and Mercedes would have won WDC's this decade...



#139 Claudius

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Posted 09 December 2019 - 09:39

I didn't put Bottas in my list purely because I forgot about him. He probably should be in the lower part of the top 10 but he's so bland and anonymous that I couldn't remember him.

 

It was the same with me, mea culpa.

But like you say, he's so bland that I forgot about him.



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#140 dissident

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Posted 09 December 2019 - 09:40

1. Hamilton

2. Alonso

3. Verstappen

4. Vettel

5. Rosberg

6. Button

7. Ricciardo

8. Bottas

9. Leclec

10. Perez

 

Late to the party, but I tend to agree with this.

 

All things considered, Hamilton and Alonso are the ones that stand out.

 

Max has the potential to reach their level and his last couple of seasons have been great, but of course when you are actually fighting for the championship things can be different.

 

Rosberg did a fine job vs Hamilton but ultimately he is not as good and Vettel, while very quick, makes too many silly mistakes.

 

At the end of the day the 2010's gave us a number of very strong drivers, and not exclusively at the sharp end of the field. Even most pay-drivers tend to be competent nowadays.  :lol: 



#141 garoidb

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Posted 09 December 2019 - 09:53

Ah, but put Lewis in a Ferrari and lets see if only Red Bull and Mercedes would have won WDC's this decade...

 

The answer to that depends quite a bit on who Mercedes would have put in his seat.



#142 theflyingwheel

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Posted 09 December 2019 - 11:29

Ah, but put Lewis in a Ferrari and lets see if only Red Bull and Mercedes would have won WDC's this decade...

Had Rosberg stayed in the Mercedes while Lewis was at Ferrari we would be talking about Rosberg achieving his 6th world title by now, has Alonso went to Mercedes at least his 8th, had Vettel went we would be talking about Vettel winning every single championship in a decade.

Yes, I mantain my argument, put Lewis on a Caterham he would not enter the top 15 of the decade, had Lewis stayed in McLaren he would had an Alonso esque career, Lewis was among the best drivers to be in the best team with the best car and Only managing to lose to his teammate a championship fight in 2016 because of his poor start at the Japanese Gp, he in my list is the number one period in a more circunstancial manner but still clever enough to be in the best car at the right time.

Edited by theflyingwheel, 09 December 2019 - 11:36.


#143 Requiem84

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Posted 09 December 2019 - 11:48

Had Rosberg stayed in the Mercedes while Lewis was at Ferrari we would be talking about Rosberg achieving his 6th world title by now, has Alonso went to Mercedes at least his 8th, had Vettel went we would be talking about Vettel winning every single championship in a decade.

Yes, I mantain my argument, put Lewis on a Caterham he would not enter the top 15 of the decade, had Lewis stayed in McLaren he would had an Alonso esque career, Lewis was among the best drivers to be in the best team with the best car and Only managing to lose to his teammate a championship fight in 2016 because of his poor start at the Japanese Gp, he in my list is the number one period in a more circunstancial manner but still clever enough to be in the best car at the right time.

 

Rosberg might have lost at least the 2018 championship in a Merc! :)

 

It also depends who Rosberg's team mate would be..

 

The great thing about putting top drivers in poor cars is that they sometimes are able to excel.

 

Remember Leclerc in a Sauber in 2018 Brazil qualifying? Verstappen in a TR going P4 in Austin while the RB's were struggling? 

 

Bianchi a P10 in Monaco, beating several faster cars.

 

Sure, Lewis won't win in a Caterham, but he would score the odd sensational result. Those kind of sensational results are the reason some of those drivers never drive for a slow team again... 



#144 P123

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Posted 09 December 2019 - 12:11

Had Rosberg stayed in the Mercedes while Lewis was at Ferrari we would be talking about Rosberg achieving his 6th world title by now, has Alonso went to Mercedes at least his 8th, had Vettel went we would be talking about Vettel winning every single championship in a decade.

Yes, I mantain my argument, put Lewis on a Caterham he would not enter the top 15 of the decade, had Lewis stayed in McLaren he would had an Alonso esque career, Lewis was among the best drivers to be in the best team with the best car and Only managing to lose to his teammate a championship fight in 2016 because of his poor start at the Japanese Gp, he in my list is the number one period in a more circunstancial manner but still clever enough to be in the best car at the right time.


It's always nice to imagine the 'if's', but as Rosberg sweated his way over the line to his one WDC despite benefitting favourably from the bad luck of others and Vettel fluffed two good chances in 17 and 18, and very nearly lost 2010 and 2012 despite having a superior car in those two years suggests your predicted WDC tally for both those drivers may be slightly optimistic.

#145 FF89

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Posted 09 December 2019 - 12:30

I didn't put Bottas in my list purely because I forgot about him. He probably should be in the lower part of the top 10 but he's so bland and anonymous that I couldn't remember him.

But you remembered Hulkenberg, the most boring driver of all time : D


Edited by FF89, 09 December 2019 - 13:04.


#146 MKSixer

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Posted 09 December 2019 - 13:54

Had Rosberg stayed in the Mercedes while Lewis was at Ferrari we would be talking about Rosberg achieving his 6th world title by now, has Alonso went to Mercedes at least his 8th, had Vettel went we would be talking about Vettel winning every single championship in a decade.

Yes, I mantain my argument, put Lewis on a Caterham he would not enter the top 15 of the decade, had Lewis stayed in McLaren he would had an Alonso esque career, Lewis was among the best drivers to be in the best team with the best car and Only managing to lose to his teammate a championship fight in 2016 because of his poor start at the Japanese Gp, he in my list is the number one period in a more circunstancial manner but still clever enough to be in the best car at the right time.

I don't think so.

 

HAM would have probably won in 2017 and 2018.  If there is anything we learned from 2019 it's that HAM picks up points and wins when he isn't expected to do so.  I'd bet serious money that HAM in the Fez would have won against ROS.



#147 Ali623

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Posted 09 December 2019 - 14:07

I would still rate drivers like Button and Ricciardo above Rosberg. I've always seen him as just a solid midfield driver, the one time he beat Hamilton required a fair amount of luck and 100% dedication to the point of retiring afterwards. 



#148 garoidb

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Posted 09 December 2019 - 14:23

Had Rosberg stayed in the Mercedes while Lewis was at Ferrari we would be talking about Rosberg achieving his 6th world title by now, has Alonso went to Mercedes at least his 8th, had Vettel went we would be talking about Vettel winning every single championship in a decade.

 

A slightly different twist: had Rosberg stayed at Mercedes in 2017 and had a better start to the year (even by good luck), such that it looked like he would win again, I think Lewis would have imploded. I think seeing Vettel going from being just one amongst many in mid-late 2010 to suddenly having a lock on his second WDC by early-mid 2011 is what caused his impulsive behaviour at that time, including the visit to the Red Bull garage.



#149 noriaki

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Posted 09 December 2019 - 14:25

No matter whether trying to argue Hamilton's titles were always a foregone conclusion or that Vettel's a perennial loser, people always seem to group 2017 and 2018 together. But I think it's overly simplistic. In 2017 the cars were probably similar but the Mercedes race operation was a lot better than Ferrari in 2017 and the title fight only really existed for so long Vettel was performing very consistently the early part of the year (arguably it wouldn't have been even close with a worse driver) -- but especially towards the end of the year the Ferraris started losing a bunch of points due to the inefficiency of the operation itself so it's doubtful Lewis in a Ferrari would have won the title against a Seb (or Nico) in the Merc either. An imaginary Ferrari-Lewis would probably have ran the Merc-Seb closer than what happened in real life but I suppose not quite close enough. Because even if the Merc-Seb probably would have had a Singapore moment or two that would have helped close the gap, Lewis wouldn't have been immune to the stupid Italian **** either. 

 

While in 2018 Ferrari was, I think, the better car and Vettel lost a crapload of points solely due to his own mistakes - I'm 100% sure Lewis would have bagged it with a Ferrari as well. Just check the point swing between Kimi and Bottas, Raikkonen scored 104 points more in 2018 compared to Bottas and whereas it explains it partly, doubt it was all down to him just performing better that year... 


Edited by noriaki, 09 December 2019 - 14:26.


#150 Brackets

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Posted 09 December 2019 - 14:32

Put lewis in a catherham and lets see if he gets even in the top 15

 

They put Schumacher in a Minardi.

 

we all saw how that went.