12 replies to this topic

[teegeefla]

In light of the heightened attention paid to LeMans 1966 because of the recent Hollywood film, I went back to look at footage of that race and I saw something that intrigued me.  In the film "This Time Tomorrow" there is footage of a pit stop by the #3 Ford and it shows Charlie Agapiou changing the front tires, and before the car was released he opened the front storage compartment, lifted out the spare, touched it to the ground, immediately replaced it and the car then returned to the track.  I assume it was required by the rules when tires were changed, or was it done on all stops?

 

I also read somewhere that the safety wire on the fuel filler had to be replaced after each fuel stop; is that correct?

 

What other unique rules were enforced at LeMans?  When were these rules changed or are they still in the books?

Edited by teegeefla, 07 December 2019 - 22:58.

[Tim Murray]

The rules at Le Mans for many years stipulated that fuel and oil could be replenished only after a specified number of laps, and only in the pits. Each car had an official plombeur allocated to it by the organisers whose sole job was to monitor the fuel and oil replenishments and re-affix the lead seals to the fuel and oil filler caps to make sure that no illegal replenishments took place. I don’t know whether this still happens.

[RCH]

I've a feeling that there was a rule at one time that when tyres were changed the onboard spare had to be used to show that it wasn't a lightweight dummy. Perhaps when this rule was relaxed it still had to be taken out to show it was real? 

[DCapps]

The rules at Le Mans for many years stipulated that fuel and oil could be replenished only after a specified number of laps, and only in the pits. Each car had an official plombeur allocated to it by the organisers whose sole job was to monitor the fuel and oil replenishments and re-affix the lead seals to the fuel and oil filler caps to make sure that no illegal replenishments took place. I don’t know whether this still happens.

This is also the primary reason that despite my earlier inclination towards then acceptance of the idea that Ed Hugus probably did relieve Gregory or Rindt -- take your choice since it depends upon who is telling the story --that started to cast very serious doubt upon that claim. In addition to the plombeur, there were usually other officials either in the car's pit or adjacent ones closely observing pretty much everything. For Hugus to avoid being recognized as someone other than Gregory or Rindt continues to baffle me -- especially since it would involve both his getting into and then exiting the car. Plus, given -- again according to which version of the story -- that neither driver was supposedly aware of the fact that Hugus was in the car, there was the distinct possibility of Gregory and Rindt being seen together while the car was lapping the circuit. It is this collision of possibility and probability finally clashed for me. It was while looking at a number of photographs of pit stops at Le Mans that I began to wonder just how Hugus could have evaded detection -- twice! -- given the number of officials that would have been involved (which, I realize might be a good point in the favor of Hugus). The salient point is that the Grand Prix of Endurance and the ACO operated with an often baffling set of regulations on top of whatever else from the AIACR/FIA that might have applied. I suspect that the ACO rules regarding spare tires alone would tend to give one migraines. Some years ago, I did examine the ACO regs for the GP of Endurance that concerned the period that the Ford effort was being made -- in its original French, of course -- and felt serious prangs of pity for the teams that were competing in the event. It was apparent that some had been handed down for "generations" and we had great difficulty at times wondering why such-and-such was in the regs. This doesn't answer the question, but I for one do not bat an eye at such things when it comes to the Le Mans race.

[Garsted]

The movie shows the team replacing the entire front suspensionin order to more quickly replace worn brake discs. Does anybody know if this was really done?
Steve

[Tim Murray]

Ford wouldn’t have needed to dismantle the suspension as they had come up with a quick-change disc arrangement.

From Ford GT40: Production and Racing History, Individual Chassis Records by Trevor Legate:

Air ducts were certainly required for the brakes, an area where Ford had to admit it still had problems. Neither the technology or metallurgy existed to produce a braking system which could regularly curtail the prodigious speeds of which the Mk II was capable. Phil Remington came up with a design which permitted the rapid change of brake pads, but John Holman was credited for a unique piece of thinking which solved the Mk II’s main weakness - quick change discs. The whole brake caliper assembly could be swung away and new discs installed within seconds (although removing a red-hot disc must have been a popular pastime with the hard-working mechanics!)

and from this page:

Because pad wear and rotor cracking were insoluble, at least for this year, it seemed that methods had to be found for replacing brake parts quickly. Two neat solutions along this line came forth from the racing teams. Shelby American head Phil Remington devised quick-change brake pad retainers which allow rapid removal and replacement of the pads. A remarkable new feature was conceived by John Holman of Holman-Moody during the year's development: quick change discs! This is a first, and surely will start a trend. The disc hats are outboard of the hub flange and held in place by the wheel studs, the caliper and the wheel itself. Thus when the wheel is removed, and the caliper swung away (which requires only the loosening of two bolts), the disc may be snatched off and a new one slipped on in seconds. Design details and development work on this item were carried out by Ford and Shelby American engineers. Disc diameters remain 11.6 in front and rear, and Girling BR single calipers are used at both ends of the car.

On the linked page there are a couple of photos showing a disc being removed/replaced.

[elansprint72]

Ford wouldn’t have needed to dismantle the suspension as they had come up with a quick-change disc arrangement.

From Ford GT40: Production and Racing History, Individual Chassis Records by Trevor Legate:

and from this page:

On the linked page there are a couple of photos showing a disc being removed/replaced.

Nice one Tim! ;-)

[Garsted]

Tim, thanks for the reply and very interesting links

Steve

[Zoe]

V

 

and from this page:

 

 

very interesting read, thank you very much for that link!

 

However, there must be a few errors introduced apparently by OCR scanning the original text. An oil temperature of 2500 °F    looks quite unlikely to me.... (however that does not diminish the value of the text in any way)

[Tim Murray]

Well spotted, Zoe. I’m sure you’re right - the OCR has read 250 °F as 2500 F.

[Arjan de Roos]

This is also the primary reason that despite my earlier inclination towards then acceptance of the idea that Ed Hugus probably did relieve Gregory or Rindt -- take your choice since it depends upon who is telling the story --that started to cast very serious doubt upon that claim. In addition to the plombeur, there were usually other officials either in the car's pit or adjacent ones closely observing pretty much everything. For Hugus to avoid being recognized as someone other than Gregory or Rindt continues to baffle me -- especially since it would involve both his getting into and then exiting the car. Plus, given -- again according to which version of the story -- that neither driver was supposedly aware of the fact that Hugus was in the car, there was the distinct possibility of Gregory and Rindt being seen together while the car was lapping the circuit. It is this collision of possibility and probability finally clashed for me. It was while looking at a number of photographs of pit stops at Le Mans that I began to wonder just how Hugus could have evaded detection -- twice! -- given the number of officials that would have been involved (which, I realize might be a good point in the favor of Hugus). The salient point is that the Grand Prix of Endurance and the ACO operated with an often baffling set of regulations on top of whatever else from the AIACR/FIA that might have applied. I suspect that the ACO rules regarding spare tires alone would tend to give one migraines. Some years ago, I did examine the ACO regs for the GP of Endurance that concerned the period that the Ford effort was being made -- in its original French, of course -- and felt serious prangs of pity for the teams that were competing in the event. It was apparent that some had been handed down for "generations" and we had great difficulty at times wondering why such-and-such was in the regs. This doesn't answer the question, but I for one do not bat an eye at such things when it comes to the Le Mans race.

This famous tale of Le Mans 1965 was ignited with the statement of Hugus himself in a letter. He stated plausible lack of concentration from the "plombeurs":

“Luigi told me many times later that he had informed the pit official about this. However, as Luigi said, maybe they were too busy with a wine bottle behind the pits to do so. He was disappointed and so was I."

Back OT, the Rule Book plays a "well deserved" role also in the movie.

[RogerFrench]

The movie shows the team replacing the entire front suspensionin order to more quickly replace worn brake discs. Does anybody know if this was really done?
Steve

Well, we didn't see them bleeding the replacement calipers! Surely they replaced discs and pads only? I'd have guessed that bleeding would have nullified the speed advantage.

[Garsted]

Well, we didn't see them bleeding the replacement calipers! Surely they replaced discs and pads only? I'd have guessed that bleeding would have nullified the speed advantage.

I think you are right, Tim's quotes say that the calipers could be "swung away" after removing two bolts, and that there was a quick change modification to them for pad replacement.
Steve