168 replies to this topic

[PlatenGlass]

As this came up in the 2010s thread, here it is. I might as well start with my list.

1. Michael Schumacher
2. Lewis Hamilton
2. Fernando Alonso
4. Kimi Raikkonen
5. Mika Hakkinen
6. Jenson Button
7. Juan Pablo Montoya
8. Felipe Massa
9. Sebastian Vettel
10. Giancarlo Fisichella

The top three were always going to be those three in some order. Alonso probably did a better job in 2006 than Schumacher - in terms of mistakes certainly, but speed is obviously unclear. But then Alonso had quite a messy 2007 where he was pipped by Hamilton. Hamilton himself only competed at the end of the decade and although he beat Alonso in 2007 (on countback anyway, but I think he was unlucky not to take the title) his actual title year in 2008 was a bit scrappy. So Schumacher's five titles take it for him. The other two I'm putting equal. Hamilton beat Alonso but Alonso had a much greater "body of work".

After that, Raikkonen looked seriously good at McLaren, although slightly less so when he actually took the title in 2007 and was unable to convincingly see off Massa at Ferrari generally. Hakkinen only drove two years and one of those probably had more downs than ups, but 2000 and the odd good race in 2001 is still enough for him to make my number 5. Button didn't always look great, but his title was still pretty competent and he was very consistent in racking up the wins early on. Montoya was good at times and not a million miles away from the title in 2003. Massa nearly took the title in 2008, although he didn't always look that good. Vettel was coming on strong by 2009 but probably didn't do enough to get higher than 9th.

Number 10 was tricky and I still haven't filled it in as I write this but I think I'm going to go for Fisichella. He had moments where he looked brilliant but unfortunately not while he was in a top car, so I think 10th is reasonable.

Those that missed out - Coulthard and Barrichello both finished second in the championship but spent most of the time looking like number 2s (not rhyming slang). Villeneuve looked quite good early on but had weak team-mates, and was largely finished when Button saw to him. Webber showed some good promise and while he also missed my list in 2010s, he might have made a top 10 if both 2009 and 2010 had fallen in the same list. I could have gone for Kubica too or Ralf Schumacher or Jarno Trulli. Maybe Nico Rosberg, but he hadn't really proven enough by then. And poor Nick Heidfeld was doomed not to make it.


Try this Sporcle quiz to help you: https://www.sporcle....drivers---2000s

[Beri]

This is getting out of hand, that's what I think.

[krapmeister]

This is getting out of hand, that's what I think.

Someone needs to start a 'Your Top Ten list of the Top Ten Lists'... 😅

[NixxxoN]

1- Michael Schumacher
2- Fernando Alonso
3- Kimi Raikkonen
4- Lewis Hamilton
5- Mika Hakkinen
6- Juan Pablo Montoya
7- Jenson Button
8- Giancarlo Fisichella
9- Sebastian Vettel
10- Felipe Massa

[Marklar]

1. Alonso = After his impressive rookie season in Minardi except of 2004 always among the best drivers, if not the best. It's overall close between him and Schumacher but he edges it.

2. Schumacher = he was clearly the best driver from the mid-90s to early 2000s, but this is about 2000-2009, and there I can only say for the first 2-3 years that he has been the best out there, then I feel he declined and Kimi and Alonso impressed more. A bit like for Hamilton in the current decade his ranking is likely flattered by the numbers for many.

3. Hamilton = the Verstappen of the last decade. the quickest driver on the Bridgestones, but not the complete package at that point yet.

4. Raikkonen = Incredibly impressive in his McLaren days, had first signs of decline on the Bridgestones already back then, though.

5. Button = After a horrible start into his F1 career he emerged as the impressive lead driver for Team Brackley, especially during 2004. Was overshadowed when Hamilton came into the scene, but just as the decade ended he came back from the death.

 

6. Montoya = Super spectacular driver at Williams, the man for the special moments, but ultimately lacked the coolness and completely failed to adapt to McLaren later on.

7. Massa = Crash kid in his early days, then slowly emerged as one of the surprises of the decade. Especially strong towards the end.

8. Kubica = Podium in one of his first races, was in contention with a car that had no business to win the title in 2008. But 2007 and 2009 were not good at all.

9. Vettel = patchy start into his F1 career, but found another gear in mid-2008 to break into the league of the top drivers, continued to lack consistency then though.

10. Webber = Was a incredible good qualifier in that era, unfortunately he just got the car necessary to win races and championships when he was already passed his peak.

Was tough to pick between 5-10, people like Barrichello, Rosberg or Heidfeld and many more are also worth mentionable. Hakkinen thanks to 2000 alone would have made the top 10 probably, but I find 2 years (and in one of them he barely finished any race) not enough to make it in.

Edited by Marklar, 10 December 2019 - 23:32.

[1Devil1]

1. Alonso = After his impressive rookie season in Minardi except of 2004 always among the best drivers, if not the best. It's overall close between him and Schumacher but he edges it.

2. Schumacher = he was clearly the best driver from the mid-90s to early 2000s, but this is about 2000-2009, and there I can only say for the first 2-3 years that he has been the best out there, then I feel he declined and Kimi and Alonso impressed more. A bit like for Hamilton in the current decade his ranking is likely flattered by the numbers for many.

 

Schumacher won five straight titles in that period. In 2005 Ferrari wasn't up to speed he still managed third place that year. With 37 he lost out by a tiny margin against an Alonso on the rise in 2006.  

 

Can't see how anybody could put him second place. Totally weird. 

Edited by 1Devil1, 10 December 2019 - 23:41.

[thefinalapex]

 

Schumacher won five straight titles in that period. In 2005 Ferrari wasn't up to speed he still managed third place that year. With 37 he lost out by a tiny margin against an Alonso on the rise in 2006.  

 

Can't see how anybody could put him second place. Totally weird. 

 

 

That he got 3rd in 2005 speakes volumes about his ability and quality. From 1991-2006 he was always a threat.

[theflyingwheel]

This is getting out of hand, that's what I think.

How long before “Your top 10 of the 100 A.C. Roman Chariots racing” topic

[Okyo]

How long before “Your top 10 of the 100 A.C. Roman Chariots racing” topic

Don't be silly.

 

That's been long decided. It's clearly Porphyrius the Charioteer, with the 4 h.p. Quadriga 5 leading the top. 

 

Though then again, Gaius Appuleius Diocles did look unbeatable in the corners.

Edited by Okyo, 11 December 2019 - 06:41.

[messy]

OK gotta stand up for Rubens Barrichello here - don't see why he's not getting into these lists at all. 

 

He joined Ferrari at the start of this decade and won races in the first year of the decade, and the last. He twice finished runner-up to his team-mate in the WDC (something Webber, for instance, never managed) and was the perfect backup to Schumacher in one of the most dominant teams ever seen. When Ferrari lost their dominance in 2003 he was possibly at his most impressive, flat out beating Schumacher on occasion. At Honda he was six and two threes with Button, and even though his Brawn year was a comparative disappointment he still had two great days at Valencia and Monza and outqualified Jenson again. He's not top five material, but he's surely more worthy than Fisichella.

 

1. Michael Schumacher, easily. Just dominant brilliance, racking up record numbers

2. Fernando Alonso, the man who dethroned the above

3. Kimi Raikkonen - heir to Hakkinen, Suzuka 2005, low on 'numbers' but in his McLaren days, high on fever

4. Lewis Hamilton - one of the best ever rookie seasons, scrappy 2008/09 then a brilliant second half to 2009

5. Juan Pablo Montoya - like Kimi much more memorable than his numbers suggest

6. Jenson Button - his development through this decade to WDC was one of the big storylines. 2004 was great too.

7. Felipe Massa - good number two turned Kimi-matcher and almost WDC and at his Ferrari pomp one of the best drivers out there

8. Rubens Barrichello - crucial cog in the best team of this era and nice indian summer with Brawn

9. Robert Kubica - his 2008 season was superb and his career took off really quickly, at the end of this decade was on the cusp of greatness

10. Mika Hakkinen - for his superb 2000 campaign alone, and still great on his day in 2001.

[PlayboyRacer]

How does Hakkinen make a top 10 for the 2000's??? Bizarre. Sure he had a pretty good 2000 campaign but I'd argue JV was the second best driver of that season based off his brilliance in dragging BAR to equal 4th in the WCC. In short - I don't think either should make this list, their best was the mid to late 90s.

Additionally Hakkinen was smoked by DC in 2001.

Edited by PlayboyRacer, 11 December 2019 - 08:51.

[messy]

[PlayboyRacer]

Most overrated pass in history is it? Lol ;)

[PlatenGlass]

How does Hakkinen make a top 10 for the 2000's??? Bizarre. Sure he had a pretty good 2000 campaign but I'd argue JV was the second best driver of that season based off his brilliance in dragging BAR to equal 4th in the WCC. In short - I don't think either should make this list, their best was the mid to late 90s.

Additionally Hakkinen was smoked by DC in 2001.

I'd say it's debatable rather than bizarre - how much emphasis do you put on individual seasons? Anyway you've got Leclerc and Kubica in your 2010s list!

[PlayboyRacer]

I'd say it's debatable rather than bizarre - how much emphasis do you put on individual seasons? Anyway you've got Leclerc and Kubica in your 2010s list!

True I do. I use context. Not just raw results.

How brilliant, all things considered, was Hakkinen really in 2000? Had a pretty slow start from memory, DC was shading him... then picked up his game but all rather too late. And this sitting in the fastest car on the grid (the Ferrari still wasn't quite the equal of that McLaren regularly).

So I suppose it's how you look at it. I don't find him outstanding in 2000 all factors considered. Kubica (2010) and Leclerc (2019) I do.

Edited by PlayboyRacer, 11 December 2019 - 09:02.

[messy]

Hakkinen and Schumacher went absolutely eyeball to eyeball in 2000 and I think both have said that it spurred them on to greater heights. 

 

I'll never forget qualifying for the Japanese GP that year. They just kept raising each other through turn one - never seen two drivers pushing like it. The direction change from the head on view down the start-finish straight was insane. People say you can't really see differing driving styles from outside the car and this is always the evidence I'd use to counter that. David Coulthard looked positively pedestrian in comparison. I'd quite possibly say 2000 was Hakkinen's best season - and arguably Schumacher's too. But for that engine blowing at Indianapolis, it would have been too close to call between the two greatest drivers of that era. 

 

If 2010 was enough to put Kubica on for the 2010s there's no question Mika should be there for the 2000s imo.

[noriaki]

1. Michael Schumacher, easily. Just dominant brilliance, racking up record numbers
2. Fernando Alonso, the man who dethroned the above
3. Kimi Raikkonen - heir to Hakkinen, Suzuka 2005, low on 'numbers' but in his McLaren days, high on fever
4. Lewis Hamilton - one of the best ever rookie seasons, scrappy 2008/09 then a brilliant second half to 2009
5. Juan Pablo Montoya - like Kimi much more memorable than his numbers suggest
6. Jenson Button - his development through this decade to WDC was one of the big storylines. 2004 was great too.
7. Felipe Massa - good number two turned Kimi-matcher and almost WDC and at his Ferrari pomp one of the best drivers out there
8. Rubens Barrichello - crucial cog in the best team of this era and nice indian summer with Brawn
9. Robert Kubica - his 2008 season was superb and his career took off really quickly, at the end of this decade was on the cusp of greatness
10. Mika Hakkinen - for his superb 2000 campaign alone, and still great on his day in 2001.

I would have had to jot down my own list but this is almost the same as mine so I won't have to. Just trade Hakkinen for Webber and voila. Though Schumi isn't "easily" the best on mine, he only *just* pips Alonso for his speed peak was rather in the nineties.

Vettel was the Leclerc of last decade, doesn't quite cut it with two promising but error-ridden seasons, Hakkinen only had his 2000, and Ralfie, Heidfeld, Trulli and Fisi are the "close, but no cigars" here.

Edited by noriaki, 11 December 2019 - 09:30.

[PlayboyRacer]

Hakkinen and Schumacher went absolutely eyeball to eyeball in 2000 and I think both have said that it spurred them on to greater heights.

I'll never forget qualifying for the Japanese GP that year. They just kept raising each other through turn one - never seen two drivers pushing like it. The direction change from the head on view down the start-finish straight was insane. People say you can't really see differing driving styles from outside the car and this is always the evidence I'd use to counter that. David Coulthard looked positively pedestrian in comparison. I'd quite possibly say 2000 was Hakkinen's best season - and arguably Schumacher's too. But for that engine blowing at Indianapolis, it would have been too close to call between the two greatest drivers of that era.

If 2010 was enough to put Kubica on for the 2010s there's no question Mika should be there for the 2000s imo.

We'll agree to disagree. Japan 2000 was indeed brilliant but ultimately it was one race out of a whole season. We clearly aren't looking at it from the same angle.

[Dicun]

Most overrated pass in history is it? Lol ;)

 

I hope you are joking 

 

Hakkinen flew through Eau Rouge and Radillion without lifting, running on slick tyres while the track was still damp - a move that even Schumacher was not prepared to do by his own admission. Then just take a look at Zonta's onboard footage, how small the gap was on the right where Mika managed to squeeze through. And he pulled all this off after getting chopped by Schumi at the end of Kemmel at some 190 mph just a lap before. There is nothing overrated in this move, it is duly and widely considered to be one of the greatest moves ever in the history of the sport.

[messy]

I would have had to jot down my own list but this is almost the same as mine so I won't have to. Just trade Hakkinen for Webber and voila. Though Schumi isn't "easily" the best on mine, he only *just* pips Alonso for his speed peak was rather in the nineties.

Vettel was the Leclerc of last decade, doesn't quite cut it with two promising but error-ridden seasons, Hakkinen only had his 2000, and [b]Ralfie, Heidfeld, Trulli and Fisi are the "close, but no cigars" here.[/b[

 

Ralf almost made my list, on pure natural talent Fisichella and Trulli both had the world at their feet but were brittle and one-dimensional....Fisichella simply couldn't handle pressure and Trulli was 'just' fast and in no way a racer. 

 

Actually the one that comes closest for me is Heidfeld because he was so damn consistent throughout this period. He was so close to Robert Kubica, just lacking that final whatever. 

[noikeee]

OK gotta stand up for Rubens Barrichello here - don't see why he's not getting into these lists at all. 

 

He joined Ferrari at the start of this decade and won races in the first year of the decade, and the last. He twice finished runner-up to his team-mate in the WDC (something Webber, for instance, never managed) and was the perfect backup to Schumacher in one of the most dominant teams ever seen. When Ferrari lost their dominance in 2003 he was possibly at his most impressive, flat out beating Schumacher on occasion. At Honda he was six and two threes with Button, and even though his Brawn year was a comparative disappointment he still had two great days at Valencia and Monza and outqualified Jenson again. He's not top five material, but he's surely more worthy than Fisichella.

 

1. Michael Schumacher, easily. Just dominant brilliance, racking up record numbers

2. Fernando Alonso, the man who dethroned the above

3. Kimi Raikkonen - heir to Hakkinen, Suzuka 2005, low on 'numbers' but in his McLaren days, high on fever

4. Lewis Hamilton - one of the best ever rookie seasons, scrappy 2008/09 then a brilliant second half to 2009

5. Juan Pablo Montoya - like Kimi much more memorable than his numbers suggest

6. Jenson Button - his development through this decade to WDC was one of the big storylines. 2004 was great too.

7. Felipe Massa - good number two turned Kimi-matcher and almost WDC and at his Ferrari pomp one of the best drivers out there

8. Rubens Barrichello - crucial cog in the best team of this era and nice indian summer with Brawn

9. Robert Kubica - his 2008 season was superb and his career took off really quickly, at the end of this decade was on the cusp of greatness

10. Mika Hakkinen - for his superb 2000 campaign alone, and still great on his day in 2001.

 

Good list. I'd make very small changes. Hamilton above Kimi and Button above Montoya and probably that's it.

 

Ralf would be on the brink of making it in my list, pretty much a match for Montoya and was a near-top driver in 2000/2001. He did fade badly later on and had an insufferable unlikeable personality but I think that's exactly why he's underrated, not given enough credit for how good he actually was. Webber and Jacques would also be very close, Jacques was at his best in 2000/2001 IMO, he was driving those **** BAR cars even better than his Williams years, just wasted the best years of his career there - before he declined quickly and wildly just like Ralf.

 

It's funny how much deeper the pool of talent becomes for this decade compared to the 2010s, for the 2010s you reach 10th place and you're already really scrapping for who to pick, many were picking drivers like Perez in that other respective thread. To an extent this is because there were many more top drive opportunities in the 2000s than the 2010s (and many more race winning cars), specially the 2nd half of the decade, not so much the static first half with dominant Ferraris. But I think it reflects a deeper pool of talent too, specially because it overlapped several generations - the fading Schumacher/Hakkinen/Villeneuve/Barrichello/Coulthard generation, which probably wasn't a very strong one historically but increased the number of total top drivers through the 00s; we got the peak of the Alonso/Button/Kimi/Massa/Webber/Montoya generation (Alonso/Button lasted for much longer but the other 4 declined fast into the next decade, JPM didn't even make it); and we also started seeing the first of the Hamilton/Vettel/Rosberg/Kubica generation, Hamilton making a huge bang as soon as he arrived. That's a pretty fantastic roster right there if you add everyone up.

[Muppetmad]

8. Kubica = Podium in one of his first races, was in contention with a car that had no business to win the title in 2008. But 2007 and 2009 were not good at all.

The 2009 BMW was a truly catastrophic car, and Kubica suffered every technical failure under the sun. Still, he was set for at least a podium in Australia if not for being punted out by Vettel in the closing laps; he finished in 4th in Spa, despite driving with an engine turned right down to prevent yet another technical failure; and he took a genuinely outstanding podium in Brazil after managing to qualify well in the wet on a dry setup. He was beaten fair and square by Heidfeld in 2007 to be sure (not uncommon for a rookie), but I cannot agree 2009 was a bad year on his part.

[messy]

2009 was just a strange year for all concerned. I think Heidfeld maybe edged Kubica in all honesty, but Robert's highs (Australia, Brazil) were way higher. Second on merit in Brazil was one of the drives of the season, exceptional. Enough to show that his world-beater potential was still there, just generally lying dormant due to such a poor car. Although to balance that, Heidfeld only got half points for second place in Malaysia.

Edited by messy, 11 December 2019 - 11:00.

[PlayboyRacer]

I hope you are joking

I'm not actually. Wouldn't make my top 5, perhaps the lower spots of the top 10 but even that can be argued. I place alot of weight on passes made on a rival around the outside of a corner, particularly if it's a high speed corner. The sort of thing that shouldn't really be possible in F1.

The Hakkinen pass falls short of that. We are talking about the greatest passes in F1 history... there have been quite a few brilliant ones and for me history dates back to the mid 1970s.

It's not a knock. Clearly it was a very good pass given the circumstances but when people claim it was the greatest in history? Or in the top few? No I can't agree. Hence I used the word 'overrated'.

Edited by PlayboyRacer, 11 December 2019 - 11:16.

[Beri]

I'm not actually. Wouldn't make my top 5, perhaps the lower spots of the top 10 but even that can be argued. I place alot of weight on passes made on a rival around the outside of a corner, particularly if it's a high speed corner. The sort of thing that shouldn't really be possible in F1.

The Hakkinen pass falls short of that. We are talking about the greatest passes in F1 history... there have been quite a few technically brilliant ones and for me history dates back to the mid 1970s.

Can't agree more than I do already. It's an overrated pass that was hailed in a period of time were passes for the lead were not that common. Hence the reason why everyone was so enthused by it. Whilst, in effect, it's only a pass on the inside where overtakings do usually happen. Add a slow car in the mix and you get "the greatest pass". Please, for real?

[Steve99]

There's a glaring omission from all these lists: clearly, the greatest driver of the 21st century so far is Marcus Winkelhock. Nobody else has started last in their first and only GP and led it, and nobody else has started last and first in the same race. The man is clearly a cut above the rest. Everyone else can go home.

[pitlanepalpatine]

Don't be silly.

 

That's been long decided. It's clearly Porphyrius the Charioteer, with the 4 h.p. Quadriga 5 leading the top. 

 

Though then again, Gaius Appuleius Diocles did look unbeatable in the corners.

 

So considering the formula currently revolves around corner speed for GOAT it's Gaius > Hamilton > Walter Raleigh > Alonso?

 

My list would probably be:

 

1. Schumacher

2. Alonso

3. Raikkonen

4. Hamilton

5. Montoya

6. Button

7. Barrichello

8. Coulthard

9. Ralf Schumacher

10. Giancarlo Fisichella

[Dicun]

I'm not actually. Wouldn't make my top 5, perhaps the lower spots of the top 10 but even that can be argued. I place alot of weight on passes made on a rival around the outside of a corner, particularly if it's a high speed corner. The sort of thing that shouldn't really be possible in F1.

The Hakkinen pass falls short of that. We are talking about the greatest passes in F1 history... there have been quite a few brilliant ones and for me history dates back to the mid 1970s.

It's not a knock. Clearly it was a very good pass given the circumstances but when people claim it was the greatest in history? Or in the top few? No I can't agree. Hence I used the word 'overrated'.

 

We'll just have to agree to disagree then 

[FortiFord]

Schumacher: The very best for the first part of the decade. Tend to agree with Marklar that he showed some signs of decline around 2003 onwards. Even a Schumacher in slight decline was better than most of the other drivers. 

Alonso: 2004 and 2007 were not great years, but showed good consistency in the other years with 2006 being a standout. His most impressive stint was at Ferrari the following decade. 

Hamilton: as others said, the Verstappen of the previous decade. You knew he was special almost immediately. 

Kimi: 2003 was a standout given the car and who he was up against. Not quite the same at Ferrari. 

Button: ended the decade well. His title win is underrated. Debut season also quite good. 

JPM: showed talent and speed but lacked dedication and fitness. Too many mistakes. 

Fisichella: Great when he was an underdog (performance in 2000 really stood out) Couldn't deliver when he finally got his chance in a top car. 

Kubica: Able to challenge Ferrari/Mclaren in the 2007-08 era. 

Massa: Matured a bit at Ferrari but generally a bit too error prone and inconsistent. 

Webber: Started well, but never the same after his leg break. 

[Anderis]

2009 was just a strange year for all concerned. I think Heidfeld maybe edged Kubica in all honesty, but Robert's highs (Australia, Brazil) were way higher. Second on merit in Brazil was one of the drives of the season, exceptional. Enough to show that his world-beater potential was still there, just generally lying dormant due to such a poor car. Although to balance that, Heidfeld only got half points for second place in Malaysia.

Which I don't think Heidfeld can complain much about because his 2nd in Malaysia was lucky as hell. Had the race been stopped at any other lap than it did, Heidfeld wouldn't have finished 2nd. He was out of sync with the rest of the drivers due to different tyre choices and the race was red-flagged at the best possible moment for him.

And it was the race Kubica was forced to retire early, despite qualifying ahead of Heidfeld. So it's not like Nick deserved those points because he outperformed Robert.

 

I don't think Heidfeld really outperformed Kubica in 2009 despite ending up ahead in WDC. It only took Vettel not to crash Kubica out of Australian GP and the Pole would've ended up 4 positions ahead in WDC. Robert won the qualifying battle and seems to have lost better point-scoring opportunities due to misfortune, which really made a difference in a season where they only scored 36 points together.
 

Edited by Anderis, 11 December 2019 - 14:18.

[Atreiu]

01 - Schumacher

02 - Alonso

03 - Hamilton

04 - Raikkonen

05 - Button

06 - Massa

07 - Montoya

08 - Ralf Schumacher - maybe someone else?

09 - Vettel

10 - Barrichello

[goldenboy]

Michael
Alonso
Kimi
Lewis

Montoya

Button
Massa
Webber
Vettel
Reubens

[DutchQuicksilver]

Honest question, but what are the noughties?

[PlatenGlass]

Honest question, but what are the noughties?

2000 to 2009. Because there isn't a proper name like "twenties", "thirties" etc., some people say "noughties" as in nought meaning zero.

[MortenF1]

Anyone who rates Fisichella and Barrichello ahead of DC can’t have seen many GP-weekends those years.
Fisichella had one good season, 2004. Barrichello was beaten by DC in inferior cars way too often for Barrichello to be rated ahead.

[Spillage]

So assuming this is 2000-09

1. Schumacher
2. Alonso
3. Raikkonen
4. Hamilton
5. Hakkinen
6. Montoya
7. Button
8. Massa
9. Kubica
10. Vettel

I honestly think Hakkinen hit higher peaks than anyone except for Schumacher and Alonso, but 2000 was the only year in which he did that.

Over the course of their whole careers I'd have Hamilton at #2, but his first three seasons were pretty error prone so I'm ranking him behind Alonso, who was ultra consistent.

Ultimately though, Schumacher has to be #1. He bestrode the decade like a colossus. I think at least half of the best drives from the decade would have to belong to him.

Edited by Spillage, 12 December 2019 - 00:22.

[Anuity]

Anyone who rates Fisichella and Barrichello ahead of DC can’t have seen many GP-weekends those years.
Fisichella had one good season, 2004. Barrichello was beaten by DC in inferior cars way too often for Barrichello to be rated ahead.

I think that Fisi/DC certainly had best parts of their careers in 90s. If we only look at 00s over the whole decade Rubens probably was a better driver, certainly more consistent and strong until the end.

[PlatenGlass]

Anyone who rates Fisichella and Barrichello ahead of DC can’t have seen many GP-weekends those years.
Fisichella had one good season, 2004. Barrichello was beaten by DC in inferior cars way too often for Barrichello to be rated ahead.

I think Coulthard was sometimes flattered by Hakkinen's inconsistency. Hakkinen was brilliant at times so when Coulthard beat him people thought he'd done brilliantly himself. But sometimes it was just Hakkinen in a slump.

[A.Fant]

Which I don't think Heidfeld can complain much about because his 2nd in Malaysia was lucky as hell. Had the race been stopped at any other lap than it did, Heidfeld wouldn't have finished 2nd. He was out of sync with the rest of the drivers due to different tyre choices and the race was red-flagged at the best possible moment for him.

And it was the race Kubica was forced to retire early, despite qualifying ahead of Heidfeld. So it's not like Nick deserved those points because he outperformed Robert.

 

I don't think Heidfeld really outperformed Kubica in 2009 despite ending up ahead in WDC. It only took Vettel not to crash Kubica out of Australian GP and the Pole would've ended up 4 positions ahead in WDC. Robert won the qualifying battle and seems to have lost better point-scoring opportunities due to misfortune, which really made a difference in a season where they only scored 36 points together.
 

That season was so weird for BMW where they were nowhere most of the time, but very competitive at some races. Heidfeld had the fuel load to win in Belgium after Trulli took himself out of contention at the first corner (2nd fuel corrected behind Trulli), but himself messed up by not being able to handle the heavy fuel load on cold tyres and lost a bunch of positions outbreaking himself twice before the Grosjean-induced safety car.

 

The recent update of the F1 Metrics model has him ahead of Kubica that year. While the model's intragenerational comparisons draw criticism (though I think with the new age and experience varaibles this aspect has improved massively, the only abberation being new drivers getting overrated due to lack of data - which will normalize over time) the interseason comparisons should be quite accurate - especially between teammates.

[PlayboyRacer]

I think Coulthard was sometimes flattered by Hakkinen's inconsistency. Hakkinen was brilliant at times so when Coulthard beat him people thought he'd done brilliantly himself. But sometimes it was just Hakkinen in a slump.

Fair slump Mika had first half of 1997...

DC just wasn't top tier. Great driver on his day but, as early as 1995, you could see he lacked that something extra.

[messy]

Anyone who rates Fisichella and Barrichello ahead of DC can’t have seen many GP-weekends those years.
Fisichella had one good season, 2004. Barrichello was beaten by DC in inferior cars way too often for Barrichello to be rated ahead.

 

Coulthard would just make my list for the 90s but that's it. Actually, thinking about all the top drivers in that decade, I'm not sure he would you know. 

 

DC - 2001 was pretty decent but Mika was on the beach by then. 2000 was pretty inconsistent with a couple of real high points, 2002/3 he was increasingly overshadowed by Kimi and from there on, it was little more than a cruise to retirement IMO. 

 

I mean, I'll concede he's probably about as worthy of a place as Hakkinen, I suppose. 

[goldenboy]

Mika is pre noughties for me.

This whole discussion really makes me remember how fricking awesome kimi was in his prime. For me it felt like kimi would be faster than Michael in the same team.

[SenorSjon]

Anyone who rates Fisichella and Barrichello ahead of DC can’t have seen many GP-weekends those years.
Fisichella had one good season, 2004. Barrichello was beaten by DC in inferior cars way too often for Barrichello to be rated ahead.

 

DC usually talked more about title aspirations than actually maintain it for a season.

[goldenboy]

DC usually talked more about title aspirations than actually maintain it for a season.

"This will be my year!"


"Next year will be my year.."

[Brackets]

"This will be my year!"


"Next year will be my year.."

 

This should be on Snopes by now.

 

***goes to check***

[Izzyeviel]

1) Hamilton

2) Schumacher

3) Alonso

4) Rosberg

5) Webber

6) Button

7) Vettel

8) Massa

9) Montoya

10) Kimi

[PlatenGlass]

This should be on Snopes by now.
 
***goes to check***

He definitely did because he got a Christmas Number One out of it.

My name it is David Coulthard,
My name it is David Coulthard,
My name it is David Coulthard,
Next year is my year!

Good driving I bring
No broken front wing
My name it is David Coulthard,
Next year is my year!

Oh bring me a biggy engine,
Oh bring me a biggy engine,
Oh bring me a biggy engine,
The drivers will fear!

Etc.

[rodlamas]

People putting Fisichella and not putting Hakkinen are the same people who put Hulkenberg from 2010-2019 and did not put Bottas.

[DutchQuicksilver]

All right, here goes.

 

1. Michael Schumacher - You can’t get around him being #1. Five titles in those ten years says enough. Yes, the car was dominant most of the time, but he made his teammate look like a silly errand boy most of the time as well. 2002 and 2004 were exceptional.

2. Fernando Alonso - Very classy World Championship seasons in 2005 and 2006, and also did some remarkable things in 2008 with that inferior Renault.

3. Kimi Raikkonen - Exceptional in 2003 and 2005, and very good in 2004 and 2007. Should have won more than one title that decade.

4. Jenson Button - Personally carried the BAR and later the Honda team. Was very good in 2004 and pretty good in 2006. Rewarded with a title in 2009.

5. Lewis Hamilton - Fifth on the list because he was only there for three seasons,  but those were remarkably strong. 2007 and 2008 and the second half of 2009 really stand out.

6. Felipe Massa - Mostly because of his spell at Ferrari and his 2005 season at Sauber. Was magnificant in 2008 and the first half 2009.

7. David Coulthard - He actually wasn’t as bad as many think. Shadowed Hakkinen in 2000 and was the only one who could keep up with Schumi in 2001. Also, his 2005 and 2006 campaigns at Red Bull were strong in my opinion.

8. Juan Pablo Montoya - Only 8th on the list because he was there only between 2001 and 2006. Should have extracted a lot more out of his career. Some of his drives in that Williams were amazing. 2002 and 2003 come to mind. Poor spell at McLaren though.

9. Rubens Barrichello - Strong on his day, just had the bad luck his teammate in red was just a lot stronger. Had a good final year in this decade in 2009, but again overshadowed by his teammete. Nevertheless good enough for a decade to warrant a top ten place.

10. Mark Webber - Strong seasons in the midfield at Jaguar and Williams and started off his Red Bull career pretty strong too.

 

Honourable mentions for drivers like Heidfeld, Kubica, Trulli, Villeneuve and Fisichella. Even Ralf Schumacher deserves some mention. Mika Hakkinen was only there for two seasons with his 2001 season being quite poor, so he misses out.

 

Now that I think about it. This decade actually had some pretty good stand out drivers. Better than the decade 2010-2019 really.

Edited by DutchQuicksilver, 12 December 2019 - 19:59.

[Atreiu]

Anyone who rates Fisichella and Barrichello ahead of DC can’t have seen many GP-weekends those years.
Fisichella had one good season, 2004. Barrichello was beaten by DC in inferior cars way too often for Barrichello to be rated ahead.

 

As a whole, I don't see much between RB and DC. But for the decade in question, there is no doubt RB had a greater presence. Numbers back it up and Barrichello was still turning in great drives in 2009, DC was already retired after 5 anonymous seasons except for 2 Red Bull podiums.

Edited by Atreiu, 12 December 2019 - 19:56.