96 replies to this topic

[RacingGreen]

They should bring back a 24 hour race at Bathurst and then maybe merge the 12 hour and Supercar races into something both groups of fans would be happy with , maybe an eight hour race (but controlled by by distance, so about 1500km). The race should finish in the dark to add to the spectacle.

 

The 12 hour GT race is a great format, the right length, and I love the night start. For me it is the highlight of the motor sport year and is much better than anything supercars can offer. In other words I don't think supercars have much to offer it at all but maybe they could learn from it.

[RacingGreen]

Supercars has better racing than both DTM and SuperGT, so i would be extremely hesitant adopting any overseas rules. Gen3 is coming and i'm sure they've known Holden was going to be dropped for a long time now. There are alot of easy cost cutting measure that can be undertaken with Gen3 before we start even contemplating adopting categories from overseas. Also tv ratings on foxsports and ten are extremely good, whilst almost every other sport is experiencing a bit of a decline Supercars is holding pretty damn steady.

 

I'm not suggesting adopting DTM/super GT rules as those cars cost about three times as much, and I doubt TV audiences will stay tuned to Gen3 Ford vs Ford battles no matter what the quality of the on track action is. That's why I suggested GT's. There is a glamour about Ferrari Vs McLaren Vs Aston Vs Mercedes etc. that given the addition of Ford Marc's Mustangs (for the die hard Fordanardos ) may be enough to hold onto a slice of the TV audience. 

[Sardukar]

Would CAMS allow Supercars to become a GT championship? or are we just talking bodywork and possibly allowing mid/rear engine cars? Right hand drive Corvette is still going to be sold here and allowing the mustang to run a lower body (so it actually looks like the road car) would seem an obvious move. BMW are constantly being rumoured too.

[Rinehart]

At the end of the day Supercars is a successful product in Australia, really good audience and online engagement figures and full circuits. Plenty of sponsors are interested in being part of the show. So even with Holden going, it's not going to be difficult to find a workable solution to keep the racing going in 21 and beyond. I'm not worried at all. Apart from its high costs its one healthy series. 

[Wuzak]

Is this the future of Supercars?

 

 

At least in terms of body style.

 

Though I'm not sure of the business case for running Comaros, considering teh sales numbers will be small.

[juicy sushi]

They can either go TA2, GT4, or TCR. It just depends on if they think they need car manufacturer support or not.

[RacingGreen]

They can either go TA2, GT4, or TCR. It just depends on if they think they need car manufacturer support or not.

 

I saw a couple of races of TCR last year (plus what was on SBS's "Speedweek" program) - and it was pretty good fun. I plan to catch up with the series at Winton in May, and I understand they'll be at Albert Park as a non-championship race too. It will be interesting to see if they can build on what I thought was a good inaugural season. 

[krapmeister]

They can either go TA2, GT4, or TCR. It just depends on if they think they need car manufacturer support or not.

 

Can't see them going GT4. If they go the GT route in some fashion, it would be more along the line of GT3.

[krapmeister]

Is this the future of Supercars?

 

 

At least in terms of body style.

 

Though I'm not sure of the business case for running Comaros, considering teh sales numbers will be small.

 

Supposedly GM will be here in some fashion through GMSV outlets, selling more niche vehicles such as the Corvette, Camaro, amongst other models (SUVs/pickups etc). And if they are they will need to do some marketing, so could see them supporting the Camaro in Supercars. Though probably not to the extent that they did with Holden/Commodore before. And of course, that would be subject to GMSV sales being good enough for them to continue...

[juicy sushi]

Can't see them going GT4. If they go the GT route in some fashion, it would be more along the line of GT3.

I feel GT3 is somewhat unlikely given the cost explosion with those cars. They’re hitting the €500k mark or so, and that’s not long term viable. GT4 is a lot closer to a TCR budget, but still has some exotic flavour thrown in.

[FPV GTHO]

GT4 to me is not a credible premier category. Most of the cars are also built to suit the gentleman/amateur driver demographic. They would be better off running the new SRO GT2, which I would expect to be cheaper than GT3. Despite also targeting the amateur drivers, they're still 650hp

[Alfisti]

The 12 hour GT race is a great format, the right length, and I love the night start. For me it is the highlight of the motor sport year and is much better than anything supercars can offer. In other words I don't think supercars have much to offer it at all but maybe they could learn from it.

Disagree vehemently.

Controversial opinion but anything 12 hrs is a nothing length, ita time wasting for the sake of it. 24hrs still has a strong element of survival about, 12 hrs is nascar like in its endless lapping for the showdown at te end anyway.

6hrs is absolutely perfect to watch from start to finish.

The cars are more suited to the track too, the gt3 cars simply have too much grip and are too confident across the top, making it harder to pass. Supercars are faster in a straight line with less grip, exactly what we are always asking for on this board.

In the last decade the 1000 has been the better Motor race more often than the 12 hr.

For the sake of the future, I am not sold on gt3 regs. The cars are so far from the donor cars it really is laughable, it's just as bad as the current supercars.

I'd be looking to open the engine regs for supercars and dyno test for hp and torque curves. Go back a little more closer to production cars as in the last 5 to 10 years the quality and hp In production cars has gone wild. If you had legit mustang, Camaro, mercs and even say FCA take part itd give the punter something to relate to. Aim for 2.08s around bathurst and tons of hp and you have a winner.

Edited by Alfisti, 01 March 2020 - 13:21.

[Wuzak]

I'd be looking to open the engine regs for supercars and dyno test for hp and torque curves. Go back a little more closer to production cars as in the last 5 to 10 years the quality and hp In production cars has gone wild. If you had legit mustang, Camaro, mercs and even say FCA take part itd give the punter something to relate to. Aim for 2.08s around bathurst and tons of hp and you have a winner.

 

Turbo engines are allowed in Supercars (hence the change from V8Supercars), but nobody has gone that way yet. Holden built a prototype twin turbo V6, but it never ran.

 

Perhaps the current "equalising" tools favour the existing engines too much.

[Alfisti]

i thought those regs were proposed but never implemented?

[juicy sushi]

I recall 888 tested the car, and then was made to promise to never bring it back. I don’t think there was an appetite in the paddock for the massive costs involved with essentially an entirely new engine formula.

[FPV GTHO]

888's business model was to get all the Holden teams to ditch the V8's they owned and lease V6's from them. The Holden teams revolted and that's why it was dropped.

[Wuzak]

Holden and 888 have come to terms that will end their relationship at the end of the 2020 season.

 

888 had a deal with Holden that expired at the end of 2021. This may mean that 888 will not field the Commodore in 2021, though other teams may continue to do so, like the Ford teams continued with the Falcon a couple of years after it went out of production.

[WonderboyF1]

Would love to know what Roland has up his sleeve, surely it can't be a new manufacturer especially when the regs change in 2022 that's when you would expect it. Red bull Mustang next year? 

[ARTGP]

DTM, V8 Supercars, SuperGt would all do well to figure something out together...Some serious cost sharing needed here.

[juicy sushi]

I think the costs are a no-go for DTM and Supercars. Super GT still has full manufacturer support though...

[Wuzak]

Would love to know what Roland has up his sleeve, surely it can't be a new manufacturer especially when the regs change in 2022 that's when you would expect it. Red bull Mustang next year? 

 

Opel?

 

Would only have to change the badge!

[Wuzak]

I think the costs are a no-go for DTM and Supercars. Super GT still has full manufacturer support though...

 

Don't DTM and Super GT already share common rules and a common (carbon fibre) chassis?

 

I think one of the biggest cost areas for DTM and Super GT is the aero, which is much more sophisticated than for Supercars. 

 

And DTM/Super GT are all 4 cylinder turbos now.

[Beggysmalls]

888 will continue with commodores next year just simply no holden branding, they did this previously when they were with ford

[juicy sushi]

Don't DTM and Super GT already share common rules and a common (carbon fibre) chassis?

 

I think one of the biggest cost areas for DTM and Super GT is the aero, which is much more sophisticated than for Supercars. 

 

And DTM/Super GT are all 4 cylinder turbos now.

Mostly similar rules, but the Super GT cars have a full tire war, and much more engine development.  The carbon tubs are the same, much to Japanese complaint (the teams found the tubs from Germany were over-priced and built to lower quality than the local supplier was offering, allegedly).

[Flasheart]

The Holden teams haven’t run a Commodore for two years. It’s a rebadged Opel.

[BRG]

It’s a rebadged Opel.

Which is now part of Peugeot-Citroen, which has just merged with FIAT-Chrysler......perhaps they could run a rebadged FIAT Panda?

[ARTGP]

I think the costs are a no-go for DTM and Supercars. Super GT still has full manufacturer support though...

 

But none of those manufacturers would oppose cost reductions. Especially not Nissan.

[juicy sushi]

But none of those manufacturers would oppose cost reductions. Especially not Nissan.

Perhaps, but they're not interested in helping other series they have nothing to do with.  The DTM did not make friends with the Japanese over the past few years, and Supercars doesn't matter.  I think any expectation of salvation from that angle is a false hope.

 

If the Japanese choose to reduce costs in Super GT they'll do it in a way that suits them, not in a way that helps series they have no involvement in.

[GreenMachine]

The Holden teams haven’t run a Commodore for two years. It’s a rebadged Opel.

 

That was sarcasm, right?  Or was that a reference to the Commo's demise?

 

For those that didn't catch that first time around, they are a spec spaceframe chassis, onto which are draped body panels imitating to a greater or lesser extent different car models ... and let's not get into all the other spec components.

[krapmeister]

Gen 3 regs to come in in 2022 - Camaro to race

 

Triple 8 to run Camaros in 2022 with the introduction of Gen3 regs

 

Supercars again considering a 'category' engine

 

Edited by krapmeister, 14 October 2020 - 22:27.

[Alfisti]

Isn't the Camaro due to be replaced soon?

[krapmeister]

I believe GM is due to stop production of this 6th Gen Camaro in 2023. Development of a 7th Gen Camaro has been discontinued afaik. So this will only be a 'current' bodystyle for 2 yrs, although I guess it's possible GM may extend production...

[GreenMachine]

Can anyone explain to me the difference between these and the Aussie Racing Cars formula?  Apart from budget, that is ...     ... and maybe a small difference in engine capacity?

 

If you need a V8, that can be done by mating a couple of the engines on a common crank, but the budget might take a bit of a hit. 

 

It seems the sage was wrong, you CAN fool all of the people 

[jee]

Aussie Racing cars are basically legends cars with different body

[Lee Nicolle]

Chevrolet.

 

No, they are RHD.

 

I've seen plenty of Mustangs, but only one Comaro.

I have seem plenty of Mustangs and very few Puggadores that are not police cars!

The lemon to end all lemons!!

[krapmeister]

Penske confirms pull-out from Supercars: https://www.speedcaf...supercars-exit/

Confirmation Scott McLaughlin leaves Supercars to go Indycar full time in 2021: https://www.speedcaf...ime-in-indycar/

Edited by krapmeister, 24 October 2020 - 00:36.

[FLB]

At least the series is not losing two cars if DJR is reborn as a result:

 

https://autoaction.c...cars-djr-reborn

[krapmeister]

Will be interesting to see how DJR fare without the Penske involvement in the future.

[GreenMachine]

Hardly a vote of confidence.

 

Reading between the lines, it seems the cost of the Penske input is too high, given what is happening in the US economy and covid.  For sure, this year must have meant DJRTP leant heavily on Penske, and would need to do it again in 2021 because all that sponsorship and TV money must be still in recovery mode, and probably so for a few years to come.  The US is looking sicker, and Penske will need to secure its survival at home ahead of foreign ventures like DJRTP.

 

What is means is that the siren has sounded on the technical and financial model we know as Supercars.  If they want to continue a similar model, then a full scaled up ARC will be necessary, including a single sourced spec engine, and limit team input to body panels, which will need to be homologated to prevent them becoming performance items. A cost cap, plus separate driver and general salaries caps would be another useful tool in getting viability back into the scene.  Otherwise look at an international formula, preferably one with a market for superseded cars.

[Alfisti]

Will be interesting to see how DJR fare without the Penske involvement in the future.

Listen to Ryan story speak on the v8bsleuth podcast, if he stays, djr will be fine.

[juicy sushi]

Honestly, they should bite the bullet and switch to TCR rules. Yes, it’s a step beck, but also sustainable, with a lot of international support.

[Alfisti]

Absolutely not. Its been shown time and again Australians do not want small displacement racing, and frankly I agree. I was at bathurst in 95 and 95 when the 4 bangers were trying to make inroads and whilst the racing was great they were just anemic. No drama at all. A 5 litre v8 is a tremendous engine, absolutely tremendous.

[juicy sushi]

Absolutely not. Its been shown time and again Australians do not want small displacement racing, and frankly I agree. I was at bathurst in 95 and 95 when the 4 bangers were trying to make inroads and whilst the racing was great they were just anemic. No drama at all. A 5 litre v8 is a tremendous engine, absolutely tremendous.

Yet no manufacturers are interested. And a lot of sponsors are automotive-related. It would seem to me you need a rule set that is either much cheaper (to cover the loss of sponsors) or that has more manufacturer interest. Ideally both. TCR offers that. If V8s are vital, then perhaps GT4 would be smarter, they already make Mustangs and Camaros for that.

[Alfisti]

I'd be looking to go back towards that, closer to the roots of improved production racing, Camaro vs mustang has great appeal. Trim the aero, keep them at 600+ HP though. You can buy 700hp mustangs and Camaros so not being too misrepresentative.

[krapmeister]

SA Govt pulls plug on the (formerly Clipsal) Adelaide 500

 

Kia rules out entering Supercars with Gen 3 regs

[king_crud]

"SATC chief executive, Rodney Harrex, said “South Australia is one of the premiere event locations in the nation and globe"

Lolz

[GreenMachine]

Listen to Ryan story speak on the v8bsleuth podcast, if he stays, djr will be fine.

 

... because?