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F1 drivers who were also engineers/technicians


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#1 blueprint2002

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Posted 18 December 2019 - 10:43

Happened to be thinking about Jack Brabham, and how in the modern era (Formula 1, as opposed to Grand Prix), he is maybe the finest example of a champion driver who was just as handy with spanners and the like, as well as the most successful, in both areas. And in the same mould were Bruce McLaren, Graham Hill and John Surtees, who had varying degrees of success, by comparison.

Not quite sure about this, but I think Mike Parkes, Mark Donohue and John Miles could also be included in this category.

Leaving aside, for the moment, many notables from the US racing world, such as Frank Lockhart, can anyone add to the list above, or even correct my misconceptions?

Surely there were many from the non-English-speaking world too?

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#2 john winfield

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Posted 18 December 2019 - 10:52

Jean-Pierre Jabouille perhaps?



#3 Allen Brown

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Posted 18 December 2019 - 11:26

Brabham, Surtees and McLaren would be top of my list.  Frank Gardner was a very highly regarded development engineer, although not quite as successful as a driver. 

 

Jabouille is a good call too.  I would add Graham McRae and Frank Matich if we're straying outside F1.  

 

Reading the Rubery Owen Archive, it interested me to see how highly regarded Mike Spence was in terms of his ability to develop a car, both my Lotus and by BRM.  However, a driver adept at working with engineers may not be what you're looking for.

 

Richie Ginther as well - but you'll soon be able to read a book about that ;)



#4 Ray Bell

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Posted 18 December 2019 - 11:42

Didn't Herman Lang fit into this category?

Larry Perkins certain did. He prepared the Stillwell FFords and won in them, I've no doubt his F3 efforts in Europe included a lot of spannering and he did more of that with the Holden Dealer Team and later ran his own team.

#5 Risil

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Posted 18 December 2019 - 12:06

Not totally related to the original question, but Gary Anderson mentioned in his Autosport column this week that he got behind the wheel of the Jordan he designed at some sort of PR event at the end of 1993. He says he learned more about the way the clutch and gearchange driver aids worked from that than he had all year. Shame they were all about to be banned really.

Anyway, that set me wondering what the value is of having a senior designer try out his creations from time to time. It makes intuitive sense but how many of them would be able to drive the car fast enough to pick up the problems that only appear at the limit? And how many would dare?



#6 garyfrogeye

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Posted 18 December 2019 - 12:15

Australian driver Paul Hawkins (Hawkeye) was quite handy with spanner.

#7 Allan Lupton

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Posted 18 December 2019 - 12:45

Anyway, that set me wondering what the value is of having a senior designer try out his creations from time to time. It makes intuitive sense but how many of them would be able to drive the car fast enough to pick up the problems that only appear at the limit? And how many would dare?

Rudolf Uhlenhaut and Colin Chapman come to mind as designers who could have held their own as drivers and did test drive what they designed.
 



#8 Allen Brown

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Posted 18 December 2019 - 14:04

At that end of the spectrum, you have to include Derek Bennett, a brilliant engineer who did the development driving as well as building Chevrons.  He was a pretty handy driver.



#9 Gene

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Posted 18 December 2019 - 14:40

The best example of this is the "old man" himself Ron Tauranac!

Despite my engineering degree, I learned a ton about racing car engineering and engineering in general during my time at RALT.



#10 uechtel

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Posted 18 December 2019 - 14:53

Didn't Herman Lang fit into this category?

 

Lang was a mechanic, but for sure no engineer...

 

I think Taruffi can also be added to the list, and of course Paul Emery...



#11 Tim Murray

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Posted 18 December 2019 - 15:00

Jim Hall

#12 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 18 December 2019 - 15:02

Paul England
Dan Gurney
Piero Dusio
Brian Hart
Andy Granatelli
Ernst Loof
Louis Mayer

#13 moffspeed

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Posted 18 December 2019 - 16:55

Tony Trimmer's F1 successes are limited to non-championship and British F1 outings but he did spanner for Frank Williams. So, alongside Jabouille, perhaps the last of the true mechanic/drivers. ?



#14 Sterzo

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Posted 18 December 2019 - 17:49

Giovanni Guidotti was an engineer at Alfa Romeo who also tested and raced the 158. Not sure of Consalvo Sanesi's engineering qualifications but as test driver (and racer) he was heavily involved in development.

 

There must be many F1 drivers who did at least some of their own spanner work in the lesser formulae, before the advent of the "pay for a drive" model took over single seater racing. James Hunt did, for example.

 

Several F1 designers were also decent racing drivers: John Cooper, Eric Broadley, Len Terry and Adrian Newey spring to  mind - but that's another topic.



#15 Charlieman

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Posted 18 December 2019 - 17:55

Phil Hill was handy with spanners and Richie Ginther had a technical education courtesy of military service. In recent years, Nico Rosberg made the effort to understand how his cars worked -- still lots of time for further study, Nico. Paul Frere was a fine technical writer, and probably the last driver to achieve two distinctions as an amateur driver (i.e. somebody with a "proper" job outside racing). Those distinctions would be racing for a factory racing team (Ferrari) and achieving a top three WDC race result.



#16 Glengavel

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Posted 18 December 2019 - 18:18

Jackie Stewart worked in the family garage business, although he says he was put in charge of the lubrication bay so probably not that mechanically oriented, although I can't believe he wouldn't have got involved in other aspects.

 

As a farmer, Jim Clark would have been familiar with the farmer's toolkit of a lump hammer and a can of easy-start...



#17 Charlieman

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Posted 18 December 2019 - 18:24

George Abecassis and John Heath qualify as technicians and drivers for their work at HWM. Pre-WWII, Major Frank Halford built and raced the Halford Special which qualified as a GP car. (It is probably best to ignore pre-WWII and pre-F1 because so many GP drivers became serious designers of cars/engines or led teams.)

Edit for additions: Jack Fairman was an engineer/driver. Keith Greene had a very long career including GP driver entries. An obvious omission from the list of engineers who who were quick behind the wheel is Major Tony Rolt (Le Mans overall winner). Major Arthur Mallock never made a GP or F1 car, but Ray Mallock raced in the UK National F1 series.

#18 D-Type

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Posted 18 December 2019 - 19:13

Phil Hill was handy with spanners and Richie Ginther had a technical education courtesy of military service. In recent years, Nico Rosberg made the effort to understand how his cars worked -- still lots of time for further study, Nico. Paul Frere was a fine technical writer, and probably the last driver to achieve two distinctions as an amateur driver (i.e. somebody with a "proper" job outside racing). Those distinctions would be racing for a factory racing team (Ferrari) and achieving a top three WDC race result.

And don't forget his Le Mans performances, including one overall win.



#19 D-Type

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Posted 18 December 2019 - 19:15

Nobody has mentioned Nigel Mansell.  Wasn't he qualified as an aerospace engineer?


Edited by D-Type, 18 December 2019 - 19:19.


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#20 airbox

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Posted 18 December 2019 - 19:18

Bruce, Jack and Mark seemed to get the right balance between the demands of engineering and driving

 

Did Graham and John manage to do the same especially when they started to run their own teams? - Are the anecdotal accounts true that they found it hard to accept the advice of the team members on set up and development?



#21 Macca

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Posted 18 December 2019 - 19:55

Howden Ganley.



Paul M

#22 Charlieman

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Posted 18 December 2019 - 21:02

Nobody has mentioned Nigel Mansell.  Wasn't he qualified as an aerospace engineer?

Nigel Mansell is a bit more middle class than he has presented to the public, I suspect. He wasn't Roger Williamson or Brian Henton brought up on a council estate in Leicestershire. I live about a mile away from where Roger Williamson grew up and it has always been a pleasant, but not-well-off neighbourhood. Nigel's dad was a fairly well paid engineer (not sure if he could be labelled as professional) and 'Our Nige' went karting.

 

Nigel Mansell and his wife earned enough to buy a racing car, which places them in the professional classes. Nigel's job description as an amateur racer was aerospace engineer. 



#23 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 19 December 2019 - 01:05

Didn't Herman Lang fit into this category?

Larry Perkins certain did. He prepared the Stillwell FFords and won in them, I've no doubt his F3 efforts in Europe included a lot of spannering and he did more of that with the Holden Dealer Team and later ran his own team.

From what I have read Larry assembled cars from scrap to get a drive, in most of the categories he drove in in Europe. And for what he was driving did better than most.

For a period with HDT he prepared cars the Larry way. Used as many free parts from Holden he could get. And did the same at Perkins Engineering. Many criticised him for that but the cars were succesfull.

I can remember watching him assist in changing a diff at Mallala with it seemed only one mechanic,, for two cars. He removed the axles [in driving suit] and the mechanic was on his back under the car unbolting the diff centre.

Meanwhile Gibsons had a person to drive the cars to the dummy grid. Larry and Russel drove their own!

The Castrol money near certainly went into the cars not bling. He often quoted other teams as Hollywood teams.

As a car builder also I can remember watching him supervise a rocker set change on the James Rosenberg owned Commodore [Mark Poole] between heats. This early 90s. 



#24 rl1856

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Posted 19 December 2019 - 02:29

Mario Andretti.  In addition to being an outstanding driver, he was also outstanding in testing and development.  His talent allowed him to get the most from a design.  Many very talented drivers are not very good when testing; they just get in and drive.  Mario knew how cars worked, how to make them faster, and how to communicate his thoughts to the team.   

 

Phil Hill had a natural affinity for cars.  He disassembled and restored his classic Packard even before he was a front line driver.  He always possessed mechanical "sympathy" and was much loved by the mechanics and engineers for his ability to diagnose what may be wrong, and not overdrive a car.



#25 PJGD

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Posted 19 December 2019 - 03:22

Mike Hawthorn served his apprenticeship at Dennis Brothers in Guildford building trucks, fire engines, buses and lawn mowers. I know someone who served alongside him building such vehicles.

PJGD

#26 Roger Clark

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Posted 19 December 2019 - 09:52

I think there are three categories of engineer here:

(1) designers who can use a drawing board or computer screen to produce a car or component from scratch 

(2) mechanics who can build it and fix it when it goes wrong

(3) drivers who can analyse what a car is doing and describe it in a way that helps the designer make improvements. Some drivers would make suggestions but a lot of designers would prefer that drivers didn’t do that. 
 

I say this without denigrating any one group.

 

There were, of course, a lot of people who spanned two categories but not many who spanned all three. 
 

Then there was Rob Walker’s statement that the wishbone rear suspension on his Cooper had to work because Stirling designed it. I offer this in the “if you believe this you’ll believe anything” category. 



#27 Macca

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Posted 19 December 2019 - 14:38

To put it another way, there were a few drivers who ran their own teams and could say to the designer 'I want that bit there, and it should look like this' (Brabham, McLaren).

 

There have been quite a lot who could say 'It's too soft at the front and the toe-in at the back is wrong' (the above two, Surtees, Hulme, Andretti, Gardner)

 

Most top drivers can say 'It understeers in slow corners and oversteers in fast ones' and let the engineers/designer make the adjustments and report back accurately the affects.

 

Quite a few designers have been decent racers without reaching (or trying to reach) the top level - Chapman, Bennett, Jim Hall, Broadley.

 

Many drivers had, before or after their top-line careers, hands-on mechanical experience - G.Hill, P.Hill, Ginther, Hawkins.

 

However, of those who got to the top level with a GP/LM podium, the only one who designed and built a F1 car himself as well as many other types was Howden Ganley.

 

 

Paul M 



#28 absinthedude

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Posted 19 December 2019 - 14:58

Nigel Mansell....I am pretty sure he has an HND from a polytechnic in engineering....and was indeed working as an engineer at Lucas when he started racing.

 

I don't know that he exaggerates "working class background". I remember reading his autobiography and don't recall him claiming his parents ever had any troubles putting food on the table...but they weren't well off, perhaps. Later when he got into F3 and above money was tight because he didn't have a sponsor or benefactor until Chapman took him under his wing. It is documented that he sold most of his possessions to finance his racing.



#29 Eric Dunsdon

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Posted 19 December 2019 - 17:55

As already mentioned Piero Taruffi.



#30 nexfast

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Posted 19 December 2019 - 19:32

I think no one mentioned Michael May so far, a Swiss engineer that happened to drive cars too, even in the WDC.



#31 DCapps

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Posted 19 December 2019 - 22:17

Ray Harroun: He had some level of modest success with both Marmon & Maxwell. Ancient history, perhaps, but an example that this aspect of motor sport is worth looking at.



#32 Sterzo

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Posted 19 December 2019 - 22:49

I think no one mentioned Michael May so far, a Swiss engineer that happened to drive cars too, even in the WDC.

Michael May appeared in the mid fifties in a Porsche (RSK?) which he'd fitted with an inverted aerofoil above the cockpit, something of a first. (Though of course the Opel record car and, I think, a Brooklands special had appeared with aerofoils on the sides). One of the magazines showed a picture of May in his stationary car, with no explanation of what the device might do, but commenting it should keep him dry in the rain. Seem to remember he went on to work for Jaguar.



#33 blueprint2002

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Posted 20 December 2019 - 00:46

Couldn’t have asked for a better response- thanks all!

What I was really getting at: drivers who played a vital role in the design, build, development and set-up of the cars. This does not necessarily require a degree or diploma, but surely a certain flair, gift, aptitude, talent- call it what you will. Often, it appears, personal experience, from an early age, of building and trouble-shooting cars, motorcycles, or other machines, has been of value in developing what may have been latent: Bruce McLaren being just one example. But this does not seem to have been essential; if the flair was present, then motor racing brought it out anyway.

 Jim Clark is probably the best example of this: to my knowledge his background did little to foster this talent, perhaps he just developed it as he went racing. In my opinion his astonishing success was not only the result of exceptional driving ability, but also of getting the car just right. His synergy with Chapman is well known, and it would seem that he had a similar effect on the others at Team Lotus. Something similar appears to have been the case with Mario Andretti, again at Team Lotus.

And while he has little or nothing to say in this regard in his autobiography, I suspect that Jackie Stewart also developed a similar relationship with Ken Tyrrell, Derek Gardner and their team. And in his case, working at his family garage from an early age surely helped him express himself clearly and accurately, describing symptoms, offering diagnoses and possible solutions, and so on.

Not sure about Fangio, Senna, Prost or Schumacher, but their consistent success over so many years would seem to be possible only with the same, or similar attributes.

And conversely, imagine what might have been lost if  ACBC, Ron Tauranac and a few others, had preferred driving to designing and building.



#34 Roger Clark

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Posted 20 December 2019 - 07:52

Tony Rudd wrote that Fangio refused to give any feed back on the BRM. His view appeared to be that, if the times were not good enough, it was up to the team decide what to do. It was not for the driver to interfere. I think this is the only (mild) criticism of Fangio that I have ever heard. 
 

Contrast this with the detailed paper written by the young Moss after he tested the car; ignored by Mays and Berthon but welcomed by the likes of Rudd. 



#35 Belmondo

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Posted 20 December 2019 - 08:14

Tony Rudd wrote that Fangio refused to give any feed back on the BRM. His view appeared to be that, if the times were not good enough, it was up to the team decide what to do. It was not for the driver to interfere. I think this is the only (mild) criticism of Fangio that I have ever heard.

 

Enzo Ferrari was critical of the pitch of his voice.



#36 Sterzo

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Posted 20 December 2019 - 10:24

Tony Rudd wrote that Fangio refused to give any feed back on the BRM.

I have always wondered whether this was more about his view of BRM than truly representative of his approach. Admittedly times were different, and there was less "tweaking" than today. Was it Duncan Hamilton who identified a flaw in Gordini's steering geometry, to be thanked and told they'd fix it in next year's design?

 

Fangio did, of course, build and prepare his own early racing cars, and repaired them at the roadside all over South America.