118 replies to this topic

[Charlieman]

I was surprised that the blessed Margaret seemed to be taken in by him, she wasn't easily fooled.

It had to be absolute desperation. The Northern Ireland Secretaries for the period (Roy Mason, Humphrey Atkins and Jim Prior) weren't idiots. But none had any knowledge of the car industry or selling expensive goods in the USA or anything which might contribute to the DMC project. It appears that they were also unable to read newspapers.

 

We can all be wise after the fact. The thing about DeLorean and the DMC project is that almost every prediction was true but a little bit worse than anyone suggested in print or on telly.

[ensign14]

On top of which it was a politically difficult decision to cut the ties with Delorean.  The factory was one bright spot in the Troubles. 

 

Incidentally, today's Autosport online maybe gives another hint as to Lotus' decline, after Elio inherited the San Marino 1985 win...

 

Yet rather than for Dennis's reaction, Wright's overriding memory is of his interaction with Lotus team manager Peter Warr when they went down to scrutineering.

 

"I knew Peter Warr from the Fittipaldi days, but I can't get out of my head this image of him standing there screaming at me, 'you f***ed up, you don't know what you're doing' and I couldn't believe a guy like that was being so vehemently rude in front of all these people at me," Wright recalls.

 

 

A fish rots from the head, and this head seems to have been particularly rotten.

[sstiel]

I know the Government was keen to create jobs during the Troubles in Northern Ireland but why did they approach John DeLorean rather than somebody else?

[garoidb]

I know the Government was keen to create jobs during the Troubles in Northern Ireland but why did they approach John DeLorean rather than somebody else?

 

I think DeLorean approached them. He was also in talks with the Industrial Development Authority in the Republic of Ireland, but they didn't go for it. 

[Ibsey]

With new shopping center developments, Landlords typically take a loss to secure an "anchor tenant" (i.e. a Mark & Spencers). This is to encourage other retailers to occupy their other units, because they will know there will be guaranteed footfall generated by Mark & Spencers. So whilst Landlords take a loss with Marks & Spencers, they recoup all that and more from their other tenants. So I wonder if the government at the time were trying to do something similar with DeLorean in Northern Ireland?

 

I.e. even if DeLorean would cost them a financial loss when viewed alone. The Government were hoping that after 5+ years they might recoup their losses given the other subsequent businesses that may have sprung up into the area following DeLorean's investment. Trouble is DeLorean probably saw that and how desperate the Government needed him to redevelop Belfast and took advantage. 

 

 

 

 

Incidentally, today's Autosport online maybe gives another hint as to Lotus' decline, after Elio inherited the San Marino 1985 win...

 

 

A fish rots from the head, and this head seems to have been particularly rotten.

 

Mansell does not hold Warr in high regard, I think that's something we can all agree on. I was quite surprised to learn how Warr had been running the team when researching this book. Below is a little extract of it and Dernie's comment is one of his more political correct quotes:  

 

In light of Tony Rudd’s appointment, there had been some straight talking from the Camel management; if they were to continue with the team into 1990, then a better engine had to be found. Rudd also terminated the agreement with Tickford, as it was felt their modifications weren’t delivering any noticeable improvement to the Judd engine. According to Frank Dernie “He (Peter Warr) genuinely felt that banning turbos (for 1989) would make the engines almost identical in power, but had committed to a fairly expensive 5-valve per cylinder head with Tickford engineering, which I would not have done.”

 

Edited by Ibsey, 05 May 2020 - 15:25.

[sstiel]

Hadn't heard that story before about Peter Warr. I wonder if there were other witnesses to that and a strange thing to do since Tim Wright wasn't a Lotus man!
 

Interesting comparisons with McLaren, Williams, Brabham after their founders died, were incapacitated (in Sir Frank's case, still sharp mentally) or had retired. They won drivers and constructors championships. Lotus didn't achieve the consistent success they did sadly.
 


 

Edited by sstiel, 05 May 2020 - 17:28.

[Mallory Dan]

Interesting on Maggie, Rob. I assumed the deal was done originally with the previous Government? Maybe it was too late to stop it all by mid-79? 

[Charlieman]

With new shopping center developments, Landlords typically take a loss to secure an "anchor tenant" (i.e. a Mark & Spencers). This is to encourage other retailers to occupy their other units, because they will know there will be guaranteed footfall generated by Mark & Spencers. So whilst Landlords take a loss with Marks & Spencers, they recoup all that and more from their other tenants. So I wonder if the government at the time were trying to do something similar with DeLorean in Northern Ireland?

DMC set up a plant where half of the crew came from a green town and half of the lads and lasses came from an orange town down the road. Something about equal community treatment. The biz, DMC, was bust but they pretended for a while. And whilst Northern Ireland has many fine engineers, there was nothing about DMC.

[Doug Nye]

An uncomfortable percentage of this entire thread appears to me to be thoughtlessly insensitive of the sensibilities of numerous surviving players...  I think it's TNF's first upon a topic of which I have some experience and first-hand knowledge that I will - in future - avoid.

 

DCN

[sstiel]

An uncomfortable percentage of this entire thread appears to me to be thoughtlessly insensitive of the sensibilities of numerous surviving players...  I think it's TNF's first upon a topic of which I have some experience and first-hand knowledge that I will - in future - avoid.

 

DCN

Apologies DCN. I hope you're keeping safe during these strange times.

[1969BOAC500]

'Enjoying' lockdown on a hot day in my garden this morning, surprised to hear the doorbell on a UK Bank Holiday. It's the Amazon man, with my paperback copy of Ibrar's new book. I have no axe to grind here and no inside knowledge - just a race fan who well  remembers the era described. I find the Lotus history in F1 to be endlessly fascinating, and I'm already into chapter 3.....I think I'll put another beer in the 'fridge.

[sstiel]

I got my copy from the Amazon man too.

[Reynard88D]

'Enjoying' lockdown on a hot day in my garden this morning, surprised to hear the doorbell on a UK Bank Holiday. It's the Amazon man, with my paperback copy of Ibrar's new book. I have no axe to grind here and no inside knowledge - just a race fan who well  remembers the era described. I find the Lotus history in F1 to be endlessly fascinating, and I'm already into chapter 3.....I think I'll put another beer in the 'fridge.

 

In these difficult times, it's amazing how this book has cheered me up, taking me back to my favourite time of F1, but also a very unfortunate time with the end of one of my favourite teams. Thanks to Ibsey and all the people who helped him and i hope you sell loads and go onto write more books like this. 

[Ibsey]

In these difficult times, it's amazing how this book has cheered me up, taking me back to my favourite time of F1, but also a very unfortunate time with the end of one of my favourite teams. Thanks to Ibsey and all the people who helped him and i hope you sell loads and go onto write more books like this. 

 

Thanks and really glad you liked it  . In fact your post above has cheered me up as well as the whole Covid-19 situation is depressing isn't it. Need a bit of a rest before writing any more books. Also need get a "proper" job to pay the bills, because writing does not.

 

Was interested to find this topic the other day:https://forums.autos...09#entry6979760 The first two posts suggest following the acquisition of Team Lotus by David Hunt it moved from Ketteringham Hall to the Industrial Estate unit which housed their wind tunnel building on Philip Ford way, Silfield Wymondham.   

Edited by Ibsey, 12 May 2020 - 13:53.

[Reynard88D]

Thanks and really glad you liked it  . In fact your post above has cheered me up as well as the whole Covid-19 situation is depressing isn't it. Need a bit of a rest before writing any more books. Also need get a "proper" job to pay the bills, because writing does not.

 

Was interested to find this topic the other day:https://forums.autos...09#entry6979760 The first two posts suggest following the acquisition of Team Lotus by David Hunt it moved from Ketteringham Hall to the Industrial Estate unit which housed their wind tunnel building on Philip Ford way, Silfield Wymondham.   

 

Glad my comment cheered you up Ibsey, the final production must be a big a weight off your shoulders after all the work to get it done. Just out of interest, on your comment that "writing dosen't pay" sorry to hear about that, how many 1994 books have you sold as i thought it was great and you marketed it well but wondered if it met your targets or not?

[sstiel]

The Pacific Team Lotus collaboration was something else. Peter Elleray has explained it further here: https://forums.autos...e-team-that-is/

 

Help keep the Lotus name in F1 for longer, get funding for Pacific and perhaps enable David Hunt to relaunch the team. I wonder if Pacific was the only candidate? 

Edited by sstiel, 12 May 2020 - 16:02.

[Ibsey]

Glad my comment cheered you up Ibsey, the final production must be a big a weight off your shoulders after all the work to get it done. Just out of interest, on your comment that "writing dosen't pay" sorry to hear about that, how many 1994 books have you sold as i thought it was great and you marketed it well but wondered if it met your targets or not?

 

Having the book out there is certainly a big weight off one's shoulders. You tend to immerse yourself in the subject matter 24/7 when writing, to ensure you have all angles covered. So it feels a bit strange coming back to the "real world". 

 

I'm not sure as to the exact number of 1994 books sold as I'm only told every 6 months what the figures are. But last I heard it was around 500 copies in just over a year. Which is good for an unknown author like myself as I read somewhere 250 copies is the average for debutants (over the whole life of the book). IIRC the publishers have printed 2,000 copies and sales seems to be fairly steady, so one day it might reach that figure. 

 

If your passionate about what you write it is a fun experience, however don't expect to turn writing F1 books into a full-time career unless your famous or lucky. Sadly I'm neither, hence the need to go back to a "proper" job. 

Edited by Ibsey, 12 May 2020 - 17:12.

[1969BOAC500]

I've just finished reading the book straight through, and actually was sorry to come to the end of it ( not always the case ! ).

 

As well as being an enjoyable 'read', it's been valuable to me as actually making sense of what happened to Lotus in F1 through the 1980s. I wasn't a Lotus fan back then, but in those days you couldn't be a motor sport enthusiast without being very aware of them, so I knew what happened ( mainly through the pages of Autosport ) but often not why. Reading Ibrar's book has placed the events and personalities in context, along the way explaining many things which I didn't understand before.

 

It's a rather sad story but with people such as Ducarouge, Senna, Piquet, Mansell and Warr involved, it's not boring.

 

I can't begin to imagine the amount of work which went into this book. A great effort, and it's another book which will be staying on my bookshelf......

[Michael Ferner]

Someone on another forum tried to sell me on the idea that Lotus used 'last year's engines' in 1987, quoting this book as his source.

 

Other poster: Williams had exclusive use of the RA167E engine in '87, Lotus had to use the RA166E from the previous year. Not short on power or drivability of course, but still not the same between the two teams.

 

Me: That's not what all the period sources, and respected journalist/historian Doug Nye in Autocourse and all the history books say - do you have inside information? For the record, according to Autocourse/Nye, both teams used the RA166E in Brazil only, and the RA167G from San Marino onwards until the season's final at Adelaide.

 

Other poster: Interesting. No inside info Michael - my detail came from the book 'Team Lotus - Beyond the Colin Chapman Era' by Ibrar Malik. I stand corrected.

 

Is that really what the book says? And more importantly, why?