11 replies to this topic

[ch103]

It is really fun to read the silly season and driver vs driver threads to see how we as race fans rank our teams, drivers, etc.  

 

One topic that I think is important but is often overlooked is the role that a debrief plays into team building and car development.  Commonly posters here will say "Driver X" is good at developing a car but no one really ever clarifies how.  

 

After practice sessions, qualifications and the race, drivers have debriefs with engineering where feedback is provided that is used to refine performance.  Does anyone have insights into how some drivers/riders and engineers behave during these sessions?  

 

I have to imagine that (like anywhere else) working with some people is easier than others.  Does a rider/driver's ability to motivate engineers cause for better development or is it articulate technical feedback that is more likely to improve bike/car development?

 

Or are we at a point in time where the engineers and computers have so much data and predictive abilities that rider/driver on track talent alone is all teams look for?  

[PayasYouRace]

The engineers will have all the data, but what they won't have is what the driver was thinking and feeling as he drove the car. That's where their feedback is key to understanding what the car is doing. The data will produce numbers, points on a graph. The driver's job is to articulate what he was doing and how he felt the car reacting which will give the data meaning and turn it into information that the engineers can use to develop the car.

 

Without that information, the numbers will only tell part of the story. It might. for example. point to a development path that makes the car theoretically faster, but gives the driver less confidence, meaning it's slower most of the time.

 

I've never been in an F1 debrief, but I can imagine that some drivers are much more articulate at fleshing out that data. Those are the ones that are "good at car development" because the feedback they give provides a useful direction for those who do all the hard work at the factory.

[GrumpyYoungMan]

Haven’t a few drivers over the course of F1 driven the car faster than the data/predictions said it should have been able to go...

[Talisman]

 

I've never been in an F1 debrief, but I can imagine that some drivers are much more articulate at fleshing out that data. Those are the ones that are "good at car development" because the feedback they give provides a useful direction for those who do all the hard work at the factory.

 

I was listening to Albon's F1 podcast where he was discussing what it is like to join a new team and he mentioned how different they are.  As an example he explained how the debriefs differ significantly from team to team, even the terms used are different though he didn't get into specifics.

 

I suspect more is discussed than how the car is to drive.  How and why the team and driver made the decisions they made, anything they can learn from the strategy, unexpected problems and how they were resolved (or not), even small stuff like the ergonomics would I suspect be discussed.

 

While he was an F1 driver Chandok wrote a lengthy article for an Indian magazine describing exactly how a race weekend unfolds from his perspective in minute detail.  It was posted by someone here but I've never seen it since.  That would have covered the debriefs in detail.

Edited by Talisman, 24 December 2019 - 20:32.

[jonpollak]

Has anyone here sat in on a debriefing?
I have.


It’s a power struggle for dominance of alpha personalities.
And a great psychological study.
Jp

[Requiem84]

Has anyone here sat in on a debriefing?
I have.


It’s a power struggle for dominance of alpha personalities.
And a great psychological study.
Jp

The debrief you were in was like that - from your pov.

But other debriefs might be very different. Depending on team cultures. Driver personalities. Intra team rivalries, or lack thereof.

[jonpollak]

And you’ve been in how many?

No my friend, they’re all the same.
Jp

[jonpollak]

Unless we’re talking Indycar.
Jp

[MNader]

Has anyone here sat in on a debriefing?
I have.


It’s a power struggle for dominance of alpha personalities.
And a great psychological study.
Jp

 

 

I have, and I disagree. I have also been in debriefs like you mentioned, but it is highly dependent on the team.

 

Back on topic.

 

IMO Drivers do play a big part in car development, while they don't make the decisions or build the car themselves, they do guide the engineers how to read through the data. Show 2 engineers the same dataset and they will look at it differently and will read into it also differently, and the driver helps explain how he feels from the car. Sometimes the driver would just say a sentence that clicks the solution(s), and sometimes you can go in circles with it, ultimately it is the engineer's decision to not run in circles based on false feedback.

 

In my experience, the driver how can explain exactly how the car behaves and what exactly he/she needs to be quicker has always been class to me, and ended up with winning races/championships. quick drivers who don't know what the car is doing and how to be quicker have usually trailed behind.

[Requiem84]

And you’ve been in how many?

No my friend, they’re all the same.
Jp

Sad that you pretend to know it all from one (?) debriefing.

[jonpollak]

Where did you come up with that?
I much prefer MNaders reply.
Jp

[Requiem84]

Where did you come up with that?
I much prefer MNaders reply.
Jp

Me too, as he set you straight a lot better.