642 replies to this topic

[OvDrone]

Congratulations to Ogier. One of the best ever.

[Muppetmad]

I find Ogier a frustrating character, but it is hard to begrudge him this. He did what he needed to do, and his rival did not.

[messy]

I can’t begrudge Ogier, he was always clearly quicker than Evans and it was only a set of circumstances that brought Elfyn so close to the crown. But Damn am I disappointed, and sick of seeing Ogier win it.

[Branislav]

[noikeee]

Wait, Ogier is on SEVEN titles already?

Bloody hell, time flies by.

[Jvr]

Congratulations to Ogier for the drivers championship and to Hyundai for the constructors one.

 

Ogier also became the second driver to win the championship with three different constructors after Juha Kankkunen.

 

Shame if we just also saw Lappi's last race.

Edited by Jvr, 06 December 2020 - 16:02.

[Branislav]

Reading between the lines...

 

Ogi will take the title

 

How the hell this guy knew

[masa90]

What a dissapointing end to this crazy year. That Monza stuff would been ok if it was for just one morning or evening. Those mountain stages were ok, but so small amount of them and then even more cancellations here.

 

Really wish Evans would taken it. The whole thing just went "puff" interestwise after his crash.

 

Congrats to Ogier again, seems like every year he is beginning to make it closer but his competitors are dropping the ball so he always wins.

[ClubmanGT]

There could be no cars in the WRC (there's bugger all now anyway) and Ogier would still win it somehow.

[FTB]

Congrats to Ogier. A great of the sport.

[Silberpfeil]

I like Ogier, actually. Says what he thinks, has a champion‘s mentality and is obviously gifted behind the wheel. The fact that both Tänak and Evans stayed on good terms with him after their stints as teammates also tells me that he‘s not the standoffish guy he‘s often protrayed as – or at least that he mellowed quite a bit after VW. He‘s certainly deserving of the title in 2020 as well. In the end, he needed a bit of luck, but who wouldn‘t have in this crazy season? Just look at what happened to Ogier himself in Turkey and the massive swing for Evans that caused.

[BRG]

What a dissapointing end to this crazy year. That Monza stuff would been ok if it was for just one morning or evening. Those mountain stages were ok, but so small amount of them and then even more cancellations here.

Not really WRC standards, but we were lucky to get a rally at all, given how hopeless the WRC promoters have been in dealing with the pandemic year.  

 

There could be no cars in the WRC (there's bugger all now anyway) and Ogier would still win it somehow.

That ought to be the future for the WRC.  Drop the World Rally Car (RC1) category, run the championship for RC2 (R5) cars and open it up to anyone, not just manufacturer teams  Then we would probably have works or semi-works teams from Toyota, Hyundai, Ford, Citroen, Skoda and even a few others, plus some decent private teams, with maybe 20 or more drivers contending.  

[Branislav]

RALLY SWEDEN CANCELLED DUE TO CORONAVIRUS

https://www.wrc.com/...to-coronavirus/

[Ruusperi]

Expected news.

I hope they give Arctic Lapland Rally a WRC status. It would be spectacular even with no spectators. There's usually 100cm of snow around Rovaniemi and Kemijärvi in mid-February. Would be shame if there was no winter rally at all next year and a three month break before Croatia Rally.

Edited by Ruusperi, 15 December 2020 - 13:39.

[messy]

Really think the WRC is the one series that has been massively devalued this year by the pandemic. F1, MotoGP, Indycar etc etc have all managed to put on something akin to the normal show despite everything, the WRC has been a pale imitation of the usual. 

 

The promoters really need to have a good think about it. 

[Ruusperi]

Really think the WRC is the one series that has been massively devalued this year by the pandemic. F1, MotoGP, Indycar etc etc have all managed to put on something akin to the normal show despite everything, the WRC has been a pale imitation of the usual. 

 

The promoters really need to have a good think about it. 

Indeed. How difficult is to close a couple of roads and have a few cars run them one by one? Much easier than organizing an F1 round, I'd guess. Their biggest mistake was to cancel all summertime rallies and wait till the fall, even though it was predicted by medical experts the second wave will hit after the summer - like it did. They should have held as much rallies as possible from June to August when things were pretty much normal.

[Silberpfeil]

Really think the WRC is the one series that has been massively devalued this year by the pandemic. F1, MotoGP, Indycar etc etc have all managed to put on something akin to the normal show despite everything, the WRC has been a pale imitation of the usual. 

 

The promoters really need to have a good think about it. 

 

I‘m still laughing at the fact ADAC and the WRC promoter failed to organise a single-venue event on a freakin‘ military base while the Italians managed to stage two rallies. Europe’s largest motoring association, everyone.

[Hellow]

I'm not seeing news here yet so the new team principle of Toyota has been announced. Quite interesting choice didin't see this coming.

 

https://toyotagazoor...rc/1218-01.html

[Topsu]

https://www.autospor...-team-principal

 

Absolutely insane decision in my opinion. Latvala is not a leader type. They obviously don't read the Finnish tabloids in Japan   

[Peat]

Most experienced WRC driver ever and now a Team Principal by the age of 35....

I've not felt like such a massive under achiever for a while. 

[messy]

https://www.autospor...-team-principal
 
Absolutely insane decision in my opinion. Latvala is not a leader type. They obviously don't read the Finnish tabloids in Japan 

I know his fiancée left him just before their wedding, but that’s hardly his fault? Was there more?

I like JML and really wish him luck here.

[BRG]

Hmmm, that's interesting.  Much as Latvala's destruction derby style of driving used to annoy me, I did think he had turned into one of the most articulate and thoughtful drivers ever in the series.  He sometimes gave quite detailed and insightful answer to technical questions.  So he may have what it takes.  He has certainly matured well from the snotty kid he was!  Of all the current brood, he might be the most likely to succeed in management, although it is usually a co-driver's game.  

 

And who would have thought that Tommi Makkinen, who could give Stig Blomqvist a race to be the least charismatic and forthcoming person in rallying, would have managed to build up a team that won rallies and championships.  Toyota did, although they do seem to have changed their minds since!

[masa90]

I know his fiancée left him just before their wedding, but that’s hardly his fault? Was there more?

I like JML and really wish him luck here.

 

Yes. Majority of it coming from the woman in question. Lets just say she does not enjoy a good reputation, for majority of reasons.

 

Good luck to JML, I really appreciate his passion for the sport and the effort he puts into it!

 

Somehow often I found myself supporting other Finnish drivers beside him. But surely a driver I respected at the same time.

[Topsu]

I know his fiancée left him just before their wedding, but that’s hardly his fault? Was there more?

I like JML and really wish him luck here.

He is proven to be mentally weak as a driver, socially weak when it comes to marrying a cheating bimbo, financially weak when it comes to being 4 million euros in debt to the Finnish government, etc. I don't see any qualities of a good team leader in him.

Edited by Topsu, 18 December 2020 - 17:15.

[Myrvold]

He is proven to be mentally weak as a driver, socially weak when it comes to marrying a cheating bimbo, financially weak when it comes to being 4 million euros in debt to the Finnish government, etc. I don't see any qualities of a good team leader in him.

Why don't you tell us what you really think about him?

Seriously though, the socially weak comment is... Not nice to put it that way.

[Silberpfeil]

Spoiler

So, on the Autosport Top 50 ranking… how in the world is Neuville placed 18 places better than Tänak and 6 spots better than Evans?! There have been a few baffling selections in recent years, but this one really puts the cherry on top. The difference between Neuville and Tänak in particular boggles the mind. If I wanted to be particularly spiteful, I’d say that I didn’t think the pity party for Thierry would start on the same day a credible succession candidate for 2022 was announced…

Edited by Silberpfeil, 19 December 2020 - 01:09.

[ARTGP]

That is more than baffling.

[Myrvold]

Spoiler

So, on the Autosport Top 50 ranking… how in the world is Neuville placed 18 places better than Tänak and 6 spots better than Evans?! There have been a few baffling selections in recent years, but this one really puts the cherry on top. The difference between Neuville and Tänak in particular boggles the mind. If I wanted to be particularly spiteful, I’d say that I didn’t think the pity party for Thierry would start on the same day a credible succession candidate for 2022 was announced…

 

Does Autosport even have any rally-people left in their staff though?

 

And the rating of rally drivers have been done poorly this year. Did you see dirtfish giving Evans 10/10 at Monza?

[Dolph]

That ranking is truly strange.

 

In 7 races:

Evans had 1 crash DNF

Tänak had 1 crash DNF and 1 mechanical DNF, 1 mechanical issue, that had him finish 6th. Other than that all finishes were 1st or 2nd

Neuville had 3 crash DNFs

 

I can't see how Tänak would be rated lower than Evans or Neuville. Tänak literally got screwed out of the title by mechanical issues, whilst the other drivers in the top 4 enjoyed near perfect reliability (except Ogier who had 1)

 

I'd call Tänak and Ogier equal best drivers this year with Evans third and Neuville far behind.

Edited by Dolph, 19 December 2020 - 23:52.

[Silberpfeil]

Tänak also had that moment in Mexico where he clipped a stone which quite possibly lost him the rally win, which could kinda count against him, I guess? But yes, losing 38 places and finishing so far behind Neuville is just bad. Besides, I don’t think the Top 50 ranking is put together with that much nuance.

[Dolph]

Also took the time to read the Tänak piece they wrote. It was a clueless as could be predicted. 

 

After describing the win in Rally Estonia it says:

 

"He was runner-up a further three times in the seven-round season. Other highlights were few and far between after flying off a mountainside in the curtain-raising Monte Carlo event, but his pace and intelligence are boundless nonetheless."

 

I mean how many highlights do they want? 1x1st, 3x2nd, a crash and two races with mechanical issues. They make it seem like Tänak was somehow lost in other races, whilst he wasn't. He just had a mechanical issue in Turkey stage 3 that put him out and Sardinia starting from stage 1 to stage 3 that cost him near 2 minutes. I don't see what that has to do with driving ability.

[midgrid]

From reading Neuville's entry, it seems that they rate his high number of stage wins.

[BRG]

Less than a month before the Monte Carlo Rally is supposed to run.  Will it happen?  France is heavily locked down AFAIK so I have my doubts.   Sweden is already canned so we may not see any WRC action until April in Croatia.  I don't know how things are there. 

 

I imagine that the WRC Promoter is still sitting at home watching old movies and hoping it will all work out without them needing to actually DO anything.

[Dolph]

Less than a month before the Monte Carlo Rally is supposed to run.  Will it happen?  France is heavily locked down AFAIK so I have my doubts.   Sweden is already canned so we may not see any WRC action until April in Croatia.  I don't know how things are there. 

 

I imagine that the WRC Promoter is still sitting at home watching old movies and hoping it will all work out without them needing to actually DO anything.

 

I am sure your perception of what is going on and what is actually going on are miles apart. This kind of thinking that "they're all clueless idiots" is rarely how it actually is. It is also very disrespectful to the people who all have to manage the unusual situation, sometimes taking risks with their personal wallets or health. Often parties do it also just for the love of racing (perhaps not the WRC promoter, but I know others often do in rallying). 

Edited by Dolph, 23 December 2020 - 15:03.

[masa90]

I am sure your perception of what is going on and what is actually going on are miles apart. This kind of thinking that "they're all clueless idiots" is rarely how it actually is. It is also very disrespectful to the people who all have to manage the unusual situation, sometimes taking risks with their personal wallets or health. Often parties do it also just for the love of racing (perhaps not the WRC promoter, but I know others often do in rallying). 

If someone doesnt realise the PUBLIC made plans in having Sweden being replaced with an another winter rally, then that pretty much says everything.

 

On other hand, the mess of m-sport is a really bad thing for wrc. In 2021 there will again be only 2 proper teams. So many good drivers without seats, sad stuff. Hope for better stuff in 2022.

[Myrvold]

I am sure your perception of what is going on and what is actually going on are miles apart. This kind of thinking that "they're all clueless idiots" is rarely how it actually is. It is also very disrespectful to the people who all have to manage the unusual situation, sometimes taking risks with their personal wallets or health. Often parties do it also just for the love of racing (perhaps not the WRC promoter, but I know others often do in rallying).

However, it's pretty clear that it was possible to start up earlier in 2020 and do more rallies.

Also, it's very obvious that they could and should be able to do much more PR-work during corona times. They have so much archive footage they could've put out, but no. WRC was silent.

[ArnageWRC]

You get the sport you deserve; if you think the WRC Promoter are doing a good job with the sport, then I have news for you - they're not.They're far too reactive, as the Covid-19 situation has shown. Rallying doesn't live in a bubble - it's up against other motorsports, and also other sports for people's time/ interest. Restarting well after the other series had begun was pretty poor - the ERC managed to restart far earlier.  

 

And what have we got going into 2021; Toyota & Hyundai ready and already testing with a strong line up ahead of Monte (providing it goes ahead). Whereas M-Sport are hoping to have a competitive driver line up, assuming the drivers with money can be found. 

 

Why can't M-Sport attract a major sponsor? Why aren't Ford willing to back them with £$£$£$£ as well as technical support? M-Sport won drivers & manufacturers WRC Titles only a few years ago - but it didn't bring much to them - why? 

[BRG]

I am sure your perception of what is going on and what is actually going on are miles apart. This kind of thinking that "they're all clueless idiots" is rarely how it actually is. It is also very disrespectful to the people who all have to manage the unusual situation, sometimes taking risks with their personal wallets or health. Often parties do it also just for the love of racing (perhaps not the WRC promoter, but I know others often do in rallying). 

I am attacking the WRC Promoter, not anybody else in rallying.  These are the people charged with (for a fat profit doubtless) running a credible World Rally Championship and they do a pretty poor job in normal times. In these special times, they have done very little other than stand aside and watch round after round of the WRC get cancelled.  Even when rallying resumed, they continued to be passive rather than taking an active and positive line in the way that FOM did, and other series did.  They are indeed, as you rgihtly suggest, clueless idiots and the sport deserves a lot better.  And I fear that 2021 will be just as bad.  

[Branislav]

You get the sport you deserve; if you think the WRC Promoter are doing a good job with the sport, then I have news for you - they're not.They're far too reactive, as the Covid-19 situation has shown. Rallying doesn't live in a bubble - it's up against other motorsports, and also other sports for people's time/ interest. Restarting well after the other series had begun was pretty poor - the ERC managed to restart far earlier.  

 

And what have we got going into 2021; Toyota & Hyundai ready and already testing with a strong line up ahead of Monte (providing it goes ahead). Whereas M-Sport are hoping to have a competitive driver line up, assuming the drivers with money can be found. 

 

Why can't M-Sport attract a major sponsor? Why aren't Ford willing to back them with £$£$£$£ as well as technical support? M-Sport won drivers & manufacturers WRC Titles only a few years ago - but it didn't bring much to them - why? 

Ford's main occupation is Nascar Cup Series.

 

WRC in USA nobody watch

[messy]

I really worry for the WRC. In 2017, the debut of the new ruleset, the arrival of Toyota, four manufacturers with three strong drivers each, the faster cars, the renewed interest, the unpredictability, I don’t think I’ve ever looked at a new era for any series before and thought “they’ve cracked it here” with such certainty. Even on the costs - a series where an independent team like M-Sport can compete up top and actually win two titles. The older cars competing as privateers, WRC2, I just thought it covered all bases, it was great to watch and aside from that tragic accident at Monte Carlo obviously, it was brilliant.

Now three years down the line and we’re here. I pretty much totally blame the promoters. They’d already been pretty useless even when things were going well. They failed to get the word out at the best of times. But with the added complication of the coronavirus pandemic they’ve just basically rolled over and made such a pathetic effort to recover things even though in theory it’s far easier to hold a rally than it is to hold an F1 race, a WEC round, a MotoGP.....cancelled, cancelled, cancelled, and pathetic replacements like Monza.

[messy]

Autosport’s season review, anyone read it? They rank Thierry Neuville as second best driver of the season and Ott Tanak fifth. Apparently Tanak’s season was generally a dress rehearsal for his ‘real’ first season with Hyundai, basically not worth mentioning except his win in Estonia. Did they actually watch the season, or even look at the standings on Wikipedia? He got three second places in addition to that win, was unlucky in a couple of others and finished way ahead of Neuville, who’s apparently now the reincarnation of Colin McRae, in the table. Aaaahhhhhh. WTF.

I know this was mentioned earlier up the page too after their top fifth was published but they’re sticking to the same narrative in the dedicated review and it’s just as bizarre here isn’t it? This was Tanak’s first season in the car, highly disrupted and started badly in Monte Carlo - but he did great IMO.

Edited by messy, 31 December 2020 - 23:38.

[Dolph]

I got nothing new to add. I still maintain they are clueless. Tänak 5th best WRC driver in 2020? 

[ArnageWRC]

To be honest, most WRC journalism isn't great, especially English language material. Sadly, David Williams, Martin Holmes have left us - and I don't know what happened to Jerry Williams. Most of the current lot are more PR spokesmen than journalists. There's all kinds of questions to ask about various issues - but they're never asked. Everything is seemingly good - when it's rather apparent, that's it's not.

 

However, it's now 2021 - the season will start soon (well we think it will) it's time for the 2021 thread.