Jump to content


Photo
* * * * * 1 votes

2020 Dakarabia Rally


  • Please log in to reply
199 replies to this topic

#1 Risil

Risil
  • Administrator

  • 61,783 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 02 January 2020 - 17:46

Dakar-Day-1-2019.jpg?w=1080&ssl=1
Happy New Year, everyone! The wheel of time rotates another 360 degrees and here we are again contemplating grizzled superhunks Stephane Peterhansel, Nasser Al-Attiyah, Gini de Villiers, Nani Roma and more driving across endless sand for two weeks for reasons that are unclear. Russian and Dutch lorry crews will halt what I assume is a busy haulage schedule and instead race their multi-tonne monstrosities along a similar route. Bikers too, but minus a roof. Carlton Kirby narrates the off-camera and off-civilization spectacle from what I imagine is a windowless and unheated studio from an outer arrondisement of Paris. Fernando Alonso descends from the fortress of solitude to drive a Toyota with an uncertain outcome. He'll have five-time bike winner Marc Coma sitting next to him so at least map-reading is in good hands.
ae138ce0d6337f4dd4efbc20b08ce061.jpg
Last year saw Toyota triumph with Nasser Al-Attiyah at the wheel, adding to his wins in 2011 and 2015. The next one is therefore due in 2023 so we can safely assume he's out of contention this year. Also out of contention this time are third-placed Sebastien Loeb and the other French former biker Cyril Despres, who are both staying at home this year (or could simply have retired). The process of elimination tells me that this leaves Nani Roma and Mr Dakar Stephane Peterhansel as favourites, with a colourful cast of dark horses (mixed metaphor?) including Czech rallyist Martin Prokop, home worker Yazeed Alrajhi and the aforementioned Fernando also within reach. In the bikes class, KTM swept the first three places with an injured but tough-as-nails Toby Price beating teammates Matthias Walkner and Sam Sunderland, with the thin margin of 13 minutes (that's a small navigation misadventure) separating them. The Russians at Kamaz smashed the truck class, with only Gerard De Rooy's Iveco team coming anywhere close. The team will be competing in Saudi Arabia but Gerard won't as he's sidelined with injury. So who's going to stop the Kamazes? Who knows. Perhaps no one!
daf-cf-t4-dakar-rally-truck,2bd8f6c2.jpg
Biggest news from a geopolitical standpoint is that the rally leaves its rather unloved temporary home in Argentina/Chile/etc for the altogether sandier geography of Saudi Arabia. With 5000km of special stages it's a challenging and considerably longer route than before. They'll start at the ancient port of Jeddah, making their way north along the coast to Neom, which Wikipedia describes as a "planned cross-border city" and tactfully avoids the use of the future tense, as "planned" in this case may mean "not built yet", instead of "lots of roundabouts and convenient for the motorway". But we'll find out! That's the beauty of rallying. From there they follow the east-to-west caravan route through Al-Ula and Ha'il, before swinging down to Saudi capital Riyadh. They'll then loop around the south of the country, heading first to the Dawasir valley then the oil fields in the southeast before the ceremonial finish in another future tense city, the "entertainment megaproject" (Wikipedia again) Al-Qiddiya. Short of a visit to Mecca or the consulate in Istanbul I think that's the full Saudi Arabia experience.
B_dakar-2.jpg
The rally starts on Sunday, 5 January! All going well it'll end 12 days later on Friday 17th. Exact dates for stages on the map above.

All or some of my information may be out of date. I'm pretty sure it's in Saudi Arabia though. Enjoy! Post below!

Advertisement

#2 Risil

Risil
  • Administrator

  • 61,783 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 02 January 2020 - 17:49

While looking for pictures I discovered that you can buy one of those monstrous racing trucks off the internet! Just 85 grand!

https://www.mascus.c...k/xlolvoql.html

#3 Vielleicht

Vielleicht
  • Member

  • 5,961 posts
  • Joined: June 16

Posted 02 January 2020 - 17:57

I'm going to try and follow this year. Wanted to in the past but His Fernandoness has convinced me to step up my efforts, I must admit.



#4 Fatgadget

Fatgadget
  • Member

  • 6,966 posts
  • Joined: March 06

Posted 02 January 2020 - 18:45

Darkarabia?...YUK!....Someone please pass me a sick bag I'm just about to projectile vomit :|

 

Love the Darkar. The Optic 2000 event my favourite. :love:  Was  live for free on Eurosport I remember... Not so much now since it's original African format. But hey ho rallying no longer what it used to be.



#5 noikeee

noikeee
  • Member

  • 23,220 posts
  • Joined: February 06

Posted 02 January 2020 - 18:49

Well, can't say I like the location, but at least it's on a proper desert.

#6 messy

messy
  • Member

  • 7,497 posts
  • Joined: October 15

Posted 02 January 2020 - 19:28

I think I’m probably in the minority that quite liked the more varied scenery/terrain of South America. Made it feel a bit more of an adventure. Where it is now, it’s just one massive sandpit.

#7 jonpollak

jonpollak
  • Member

  • 44,252 posts
  • Joined: March 00

Posted 02 January 2020 - 21:09

Fixed for Fat Gidget

Darkarabia?...YEAH BABY SUPER OP....Someone please pass me a sick bag I'm just about to projectile vomit CUZ CARLTON KIRBY


Jp

#8 Joseki

Joseki
  • Member

  • 4,162 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 02 January 2020 - 21:35

I'm curious about the trucks, does anyone have any knowledge to share about them? What makes them special and such?

They look so out of place but they work so they must be tough piece of scrap.

#9 loki

loki
  • Member

  • 12,300 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 02 January 2020 - 22:01

There’s a lot more to the Saudi stages than sand.  The first part is similar to parts of the South American route.  The difference is when you get into the Empty Quarter it’s the massive dunes similar to when they used to run to Dakar. 



#10 loki

loki
  • Member

  • 12,300 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 02 January 2020 - 22:06

I'm curious about the trucks, does anyone have any knowledge to share about them? What makes them special and such?

They look so out of place but they work so they must be tough piece of scrap.

 

Specs of  the Red Bull Kamaz T4 from 2012.  https://www.redbull....tack-kamaz-4326

 

Here’s the Hino factory team page.  https://www.hino-glo...com/corp/dakar/



#11 Fatgadget

Fatgadget
  • Member

  • 6,966 posts
  • Joined: March 06

Posted 03 January 2020 - 19:36

Fixed for Fat Gidget


Jp

Fatgadget.

Thank you.

BTW. I have a warning point for once making a word play a fellow  members user name.Just saying.


Edited by Fatgadget, 03 January 2020 - 20:44.


#12 jonpollak

jonpollak
  • Member

  • 44,252 posts
  • Joined: March 00

Posted 03 January 2020 - 21:44

Sorry mate.
I was doing research on Sally Field and auto-correct screwed me over.

Jp

#13 loki

loki
  • Member

  • 12,300 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 04 January 2020 - 01:26

Sorry mate.
I was doing research on Sally Field and auto-correct screwed me over.

Jp

OK Sister Bertrille...

 

 

 

 

 

 

:p  :lol:



#14 HeadFirst

HeadFirst
  • Member

  • 6,121 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 04 January 2020 - 01:36

Sorry mate.
I was doing research on Sally Field and auto-correct screwed me over.

Jp

 

Wasn't that the code name for Wrigley Field until 2016?  :clap:



#15 loki

loki
  • Member

  • 12,300 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 04 January 2020 - 02:15

Stage 1 briefing notes distributed to competitors.   Two timed parts with a neutralization stage (speed controlled highway segment).   Twisty canyon bits on dry riverbeds, silt, small dunes, large flat areas with several parallel tracks, steep hill with sand.

 

https://www.race-dez...630-pdf.207556/



#16 loki

loki
  • Member

  • 12,300 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 04 January 2020 - 07:39

Live stream of the opening podium on the Dakar YouTube channel at 3 am pacific time.  Which is 10 am in metric time UTC...



#17 loki

loki
  • Member

  • 12,300 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 04 January 2020 - 19:25

Roadbook released for first stage.  They won’t have them this much in advance for the other stages.  They’ll get the other stages each morning.  This and the GPS nav units are all they can use.  

 

Carnet de Route

Etape 01

https://www.race-dez...ars-pdf.207590/

 

The profiles for all the stages have also been released.  Those are the same ones used on the Dakar site to preview the stage. 



#18 BRG

BRG
  • Member

  • 25,949 posts
  • Joined: September 99

Posted 04 January 2020 - 21:07

Someone badly injured on the shakedown.



#19 William Hunt

William Hunt
  • Member

  • 11,080 posts
  • Joined: July 01

Posted 04 January 2020 - 22:27

Martin Kolomy indeed has a cracked vertebra after his Ford Raptor sumersaulted



Advertisement

#20 Fatgadget

Fatgadget
  • Member

  • 6,966 posts
  • Joined: March 06

Posted 04 January 2020 - 23:12

^^

Hopefully  he is okay. But one would have thought faced  with such a looooong rally to err on the side of caution in the early stages?!...Of cause not!....Reminds me of  the late Tony Pond on a RAC rally I once competed on! :D



#21 loki

loki
  • Member

  • 12,300 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 05 January 2020 - 02:49

The Coronel brothers happened on the Kolomy crash shortly after it happened.  They have a bit about it in the video of their shakedown.   Motorsport.com have a series of shots showing him going over.  They endoed several times.  It’s easy to do.  One slight miscalculation or if you nose down too much into sand or slit and it’s game over.  Same sort of thing took Bryce Menzies out of the race a year or two ago.  It’s one of the things Fred is going to have to look out for as a rookie.  It can happen to even the big dogs.



#22 Risil

Risil
  • Administrator

  • 61,783 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 05 January 2020 - 12:48

Minis looking strong after the first stage. Nani Roma's already lost half an hour. Romain Dumas' DXX buggy (which I like to believe he built himself) has caught fire, so he's an early retirement.



#23 Joseki

Joseki
  • Member

  • 4,162 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 05 January 2020 - 14:32

Nasty fire for Dumas, thankfully no one was injured

 

15782318730873.jpg



#24 loki

loki
  • Member

  • 12,300 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 05 January 2020 - 19:55

Fred looking good in his first outing.  11th in cars, 15:27 down.  Well done.



#25 loki

loki
  • Member

  • 12,300 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 06 January 2020 - 09:08

Fred’s stopped for the last 20 mins at km160.  At the previous wp he was up to 4th on the stage after being 11th off the line.  That’s longer than a flat (or puncture as you lot like to call it.  :kiss:  ) so lets hope it’s not terminal and they get back underway.  



#26 Alex79

Alex79
  • Member

  • 848 posts
  • Joined: June 13

Posted 06 January 2020 - 10:48

Alonso still stopped, seems to have hit a large rock and damaged the suspension. Kuba Przygonski had the same yesterday, was repairing for 5 hrs straight and arrived in the night.



#27 Alex79

Alex79
  • Member

  • 848 posts
  • Joined: June 13

Posted 06 January 2020 - 10:54

African victor at stage 2 in the bikes, Ross Branch (Botswana, driving on a BAS Dakar KTM), 

First cars also arriving. A few competitors took a wrong turn in the last part, which cost Yazeed Al Rahji the win. For now, Giniel de Villiers has the quickest time


Edited by Alex79, 06 January 2020 - 11:03.


#28 Joseki

Joseki
  • Member

  • 4,162 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 06 January 2020 - 11:28

Alonso is moving again, he lost about 2h30m however.



#29 Risil

Risil
  • Administrator

  • 61,783 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 06 January 2020 - 11:58

Orlando Terranova (best name in the whole field) has worked his way up to second.

#30 Alex79

Alex79
  • Member

  • 848 posts
  • Joined: June 13

Posted 06 January 2020 - 13:04

Well, the trucks category looks like a Warschau Pact meeting: White Russian Viazovich wins in an M.A.Z. before the Kamazki Fleet, with a stray Iveco and a Praga restomod in between. Fun fact, Gert Huzink is the first competitor with a Hybrid Powered Renault C460. Not that it made a difference, he fininished dead last early morning around 6 o clock after his rear axle gave out and he had two drive most of the stage in 2WD.

 

https://bioage.typep...03a83200c-550wi

 

Here in the Netherlands the trucks are hands down the most well known category, thnx to exploits of Jan de Rooy in the Eighties with a Daf Turbo twin, a Monster that had two DAF truck engines generating 1000 bhp. He won the truck class of the rally in 1986  but was disqualified and he won again in 1987. In 1988 he entered a DAF 95 X3 with 1200bhp, quick enough to keep up with the Peugeot rally cars and even getting a third place halfway. The team pulled out however when the second truck driven by Theo vd Rijt crashed, killing crewman Kees van Loevezijn.

 

DAF quit the sport, but De Rooy returned a few times with privately entered Daf and Ginaf trucks against the mighty teams of Kamaz and Tatra which were starting to dominate the rally. His son Gerard de Rooy took over the team and made a switch to Iveco trucks. The succes also led to MAN and Renault to enter some backed teams. Some of these trucks can still be found in the rally (Martin Macik bought an old Powerstar De Rooy had entered a few years ago). Though powerful, the trucks are limited in comparison to a TurboTwin monster, their topspeeds is capped at 140 km/h


Edited by Alex79, 06 January 2020 - 13:23.


#31 Alex79

Alex79
  • Member

  • 848 posts
  • Joined: June 13

Posted 06 January 2020 - 14:23

And Alonso has finished the stage. He crossed the line 2h34m behind De Villiers as 62nd of the day


Edited by Alex79, 06 January 2020 - 14:23.


#32 jstrains

jstrains
  • Member

  • 3,224 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 06 January 2020 - 15:19

So he would have lost 4 minutes only...

#33 Myrvold

Myrvold
  • Member

  • 15,999 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 06 January 2020 - 17:49

So he would have lost 4 minutes only...

And then you remove all mishaps from all other drivers, and it gets all pointless.



#34 Alex79

Alex79
  • Member

  • 848 posts
  • Joined: June 13

Posted 06 January 2020 - 18:09

So he would have lost 4 minutes only...

No, he lost Two hours and Thirty Four minutes. So he is 48th in the rankings with 2 hours 38 minutes gap to Terranova



#35 pitlanepalpatine

pitlanepalpatine
  • Member

  • 2,446 posts
  • Joined: March 15

Posted 06 January 2020 - 18:33

No, he lost Two hours and Thirty Four minutes. So he is 48th in the rankings with 2 hours 38 minutes gap to Terranova

 

But, But, But he couldn't see!!! Because of the dust!!! That's not expected :p He keeps saying it's part of the experience but you can tell it's really starting to grate to encounter stuff that's beyond his control. Respect for going through it though. 

 

I do however question the sanity of the main site here when 5 of the top 6 articles mention a guy who's 47th and spent a good chunk of the day taking his car apart...especially when the leaders are just called "a Mini driver"  :rotfl:



#36 Alex79

Alex79
  • Member

  • 848 posts
  • Joined: June 13

Posted 06 January 2020 - 19:51

But, But, But he couldn't see!!! Because of the dust!!! That's not expected :p He keeps saying it's part of the experience but you can tell it's really starting to grate to encounter stuff that's beyond his control. Respect for going through it though. 

 

I do however question the sanity of the main site here when 5 of the top 6 articles mention a guy who's 47th and spent a good chunk of the day taking his car apart...especially when the leaders are just called "a Mini driver"  :rotfl:

That is because they would never follow the Rally if there was not a star driver in it somewhere. If Alonso would have bought an Iveco truck from De Rooy they would suddenly scramble over to that category, but now they don't get any coverage at all. Even Eurosport used to ignore them until they got complaints mainly from Eastern Europe :drunk:



#37 as65p

as65p
  • Member

  • 26,207 posts
  • Joined: June 04

Posted 06 January 2020 - 20:23

No, he lost Two hours and Thirty Four minutes. So he is 48th in the rankings with 2 hours 38 minutes gap to Terranova

 

Of course. It's part of this not to hit stuff, but he did.

 

Anyway, I guess the point was, beside hitting stuff, he showed good speed.



#38 Alex79

Alex79
  • Member

  • 848 posts
  • Joined: June 13

Posted 06 January 2020 - 21:16

Of course. It's part of this not to hit stuff, but he did.

 

Anyway, I guess the point was, beside hitting stuff, he showed good speed.

Yup, and that's exactly what the lesser mortals like Sonik, Koolen, Elfrink, Sugawara or Nikolaev who drive these rally's every year in Morocco, Russia, Mauritania, Leipzig, Aragon or the last South America Dakars experienced. "We showed good speed". But that's never the first step. To finish first first you have to finish. Even Jacky Stewart, and he was always smart enough to avoid this kind of driving. I really hope it's not just a one year stunt Alonso is pulling here and that he will try the same as Loeb, Hirvonen or McRae did :yawnface:



#39 as65p

as65p
  • Member

  • 26,207 posts
  • Joined: June 04

Posted 06 January 2020 - 21:43

Yup, and that's exactly what the lesser mortals like Sonik, Koolen, Elfrink, Sugawara or Nikolaev who drive these rally's every year in Morocco, Russia, Mauritania, Leipzig, Aragon or the last South America Dakars experienced. "We showed good speed". But that's never the first step. To finish first first you have to finish. Even Jacky Stewart, and he was always smart enough to avoid this kind of driving. I really hope it's not just a one year stunt Alonso is pulling here and that he will try the same as Loeb, Hirvonen or McRae did :yawnface:

 

Ah yeah, JYS, or Mr. Smoothie as I call him. Tell you what, it's the other way round. Being able to run those cars fast is essential, and the first step, the rest comes with experience. It's no use being able to run safe and slow. Heck, I could finish this thing... at my speed. I'd really look forward to cross the line around easter monday or somesuch. :p

 

The racing world is full of safe drivers who can finish way down the field. Who cares about them?



Advertisement

#40 R Soul

R Soul
  • Member

  • 1,639 posts
  • Joined: August 06

Posted 06 January 2020 - 21:58

Alonso is moving again, he lost about 2h30m however.

Any other driver would have lost 2h30m0.7s.



#41 paulb

paulb
  • Member

  • 11,260 posts
  • Joined: June 00

Posted 06 January 2020 - 22:32

Stage 2 highlights are on NBCSN, its kinda glorious.

#42 Otaku

Otaku
  • Member

  • 1,715 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 07 January 2020 - 00:25

Any other driver would have lost 2h30m0.7s.

 

:rotfl:  :clap:  :lol:



#43 AustinF1

AustinF1
  • Member

  • 20,685 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 07 January 2020 - 01:10

Of course. It's part of this not to hit stuff, but he did.

 

Anyway, I guess the point was, beside hitting stuff, he showed good speed.

Absolutely, but much of that is just down to luck. 

 

Glad they were able to get going again, even if they lost time. It's all good.



#44 Requiem84

Requiem84
  • Member

  • 15,798 posts
  • Joined: September 10

Posted 07 January 2020 - 02:55

Ah yeah, JYS, or Mr. Smoothie as I call him. Tell you what, it's the other way round. Being able to run those cars fast is essential, and the first step, the rest comes with experience. It's no use being able to run safe and slow. Heck, I could finish this thing... at my speed. I'd really look forward to cross the line around easter monday or somesuch. :p

The racing world is full of safe drivers who can finish way down the field. Who cares about them?


Kubica and Raikkonen agree.

They both had decent pace in rallies, but they usually binned it along the way.

For road racing showing decent pace is more important. For Dakar rallies knowing when to use your pace is WAY more important.

I guess you dont follow Dakar much?

#45 RockyRaccoon68

RockyRaccoon68
  • Member

  • 1,606 posts
  • Joined: June 10

Posted 07 January 2020 - 03:22

Good on him for giving it a go and getting stuck in to make the repairs to keep him in the race. Love him or loathe him, you can’t deny his passion for motorsport.

Mistakes and crashes happen to the very best experienced guys too. Hopefully he’ll be able to keep his nose clean tomorrow.

Edited by RockyRaccoon68, 07 January 2020 - 03:23.


#46 loki

loki
  • Member

  • 12,300 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 07 January 2020 - 06:09

Clip from ASO with stage 2 highlights. Fred’s at the top of the clip working with Coma to get the car back out with Fred installing tie rods.  Looks like the hub, cv joint, wheel and steering control were knackered.

 

https://www.youtube....zaQh1OUSY&t=73s

 

Cars for stage 3 set to roll in the next few minutes.


Edited by loki, 07 January 2020 - 06:11.


#47 as65p

as65p
  • Member

  • 26,207 posts
  • Joined: June 04

Posted 07 January 2020 - 10:10

Kubica and Raikkonen agree.

They both had decent pace in rallies, but they usually binned it along the way.

For road racing showing decent pace is more important. For Dakar rallies knowing when to use your pace is WAY more important.

 

That's not really different to what I'm saying. You do realize that to show your pace at the right time, you gotta have some in the first place? I maintain, pace is the first requirement. The rest will come with experience. Which Kubice and Raikkönen as well as Alonso clearly lacked compared to their opposition, and of course that shows.



#48 Alex79

Alex79
  • Member

  • 848 posts
  • Joined: June 13

Posted 07 January 2020 - 10:11

A stage with a lot of treacherous jumps today, a few crashes at the bikes. Outsider Adrien van Beveren and the oldest Dutch biker in the field Martin Jimmink both crashed out.

Yesterday's winner Ross Branch lost half an hour after a fall, but he still soldiers on.

At the cars Alonso underlines as65p's words as he's showing mucho speedo again: 4th after 200km with 3 minutes deficit on countryman Sainz. Local reports suggest he's taking a lot of risks on the jumps.

 

In the trucks the Rooski's in the Kamaz are known as Wombats: they only drive in straight paths as fast as possible, don't mind hitting anything in the way as long as they keep going. Today that does not work for all of them. Ace driver Nikolaev lost 11 minutes with a puncture, Worker drone Sotnikov is in bigger trouble as he has not passed any checkpoints yet. Worker drone Karginov is battling for honors at the front with the M.A.Z. Torpedo. And finally some Dutch trucks in the top5 after 200km. Van Kasteren 4th in an Iveco, the Renaults of De Baar en Van den Brink 5th and 6th. Keep on trucking  :clap:

 

Pascal_de_Baar_Riwald_Dakar_Team.jpg


Edited by Alex79, 07 January 2020 - 10:14.


#49 Requiem84

Requiem84
  • Member

  • 15,798 posts
  • Joined: September 10

Posted 07 January 2020 - 10:15

That's not really different to what I'm saying. You do realize that to show your pace at the right time, you gotta have some in the first place? I maintain, pace is the first requirement. The rest will come with experience. Which Kubice and Raikkönen as well as Alonso clearly lacked compared to their opposition, and of course that shows.


I think you misunderstand Dakar.

‘Pace’ on a racetrack is limited by your skills, precision, lines, car control.

Dakar often is long straight stretches. You and me could also floor it there and be fast on certain parts. But our lack of experience would quickly lead into big mistakes (hitting rocks, rolling over, bad jumps, flats).

In Dakar the most important is a pace as fast as possible with as little risk as possible.

Pace in itself for certain sectors is not as important or impressive as having a base speed on a race track - so no, we are not saying the same thing.

#50 Jvr

Jvr
  • Member

  • 7,598 posts
  • Joined: August 13

Posted 07 January 2020 - 10:23

Sainz Sr. is showing he still has it.