It will be emotional for Jimmie
Posted 03 November 2020 - 19:22
It will be emotional for Jimmie
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Posted 03 November 2020 - 20:07
In its wisdom NASCAR managed to change one system where 35 wins doesn't guarantee a title to another (2nd place could earn as many points as winner with the lap leader bonus in the original).
The ideal IMO would be full season with a larger points gap from P1 to 2, which would increase the value of racing for wins throughout the season.
There are a variety of factors involved I realize but the reality is the sport has declined in popularity from around the time the first Chase format was implemented, and the finale hasn't turned into a high profile and TV ratings event like other sports.
Posted 03 November 2020 - 20:29
In its wisdom NASCAR managed to change one system where 35 wins doesn't guarantee a title to another (2nd place could earn as many points as winner with the lap leader bonus in the original).
The ideal IMO would be full season with a larger points gap from P1 to 2, which would increase the value of racing for wins throughout the season.
There are a variety of factors involved I realize but the reality is the sport has declined in popularity from around the time the first Chase format was implemented, and the finale hasn't turned into a high profile and TV ratings event like other sports.
Nascar is down in ratings before that. And that's why this system was introduced.
Posted 03 November 2020 - 20:44
Nascar is down in ratings before that. And that's why this system was introduced.
I think there is more than enough evidence to suggest that they massively over-reacted. They sold their soul for ratings and wound up with neither.
Posted 03 November 2020 - 20:48
And I don't need to mention that Nascar is still the No. 1 motorsport overthere
Martinsville: 20 lead changes between 10 leaders. Now who else got that? I'm still F1 fan because it's never easy to let it go, but I now admit for years there's no show like American stock car way of racing. It's just people here in Europe don't suit ovals and all drivers are domestic (US)
Posted 03 November 2020 - 21:17
THAT will never happen in Nascar and is why Nascar introduce this system you all complain about
Once again, NASCAR did not introduce the Chase and then the Playoffs to combat teams orders. This false claim is whipped up out of thin air to support your positions. You are literally (in the true sense of the word) the first person I have seen to make that claim. NASCAR and their media partners have made it very clear of what the intended purposes of those systems were when they were introduced. They wanted tight championship battles, winning to matter, and they wanted to see Game 7 moments etc. I get that you want to defend your point of view, and that's fine in itself, but do so with integrity.
Edited by MarceltheVirginian, 03 November 2020 - 21:18.
Posted 03 November 2020 - 21:57
They introduce it for various reasons.
Posted 03 November 2020 - 21:58
Yes, various reasons, but not that one.
Posted 03 November 2020 - 22:00
Yes, various reasons, but not that one.
Correct
Posted 03 November 2020 - 22:03
Correct
Thanks, I appreciate that admission.
Posted 04 November 2020 - 11:25
NASCAR announced Monday night that it will not penalize Erik Jones‘ team.
A NASCAR spokesperson stated that the sanctioning body conducted a review of the on-track competition and the radio communication on Jones’ radio during Sunday’s Cup race at Martinsville Speedway.
NASCAR also announced that no penalty will be issued to Kevin Harvick for wrecking Kyle Busch on the last lap at Martinsville Speedway.
Posted 04 November 2020 - 16:56
35 wins and a second? Nope.
Not likely with zero top 5's either, but that there will be a winless champion due to this system, yes. That there will be a massive anti-climax in the last race when all candidates retire early, yes. (Unless NASCAR are race-fixing, it will happen at some point).
Matt Crafton won the Truck Championship in 2019 without winning a race. But I don't think there will be a winless Cup champion in the future (from '49 to present it's never happened), but I could see a champion who who secures the title without winning the final race.
Posted 04 November 2020 - 17:03
You now what. Austin Dillon took the 2013 Nascar Nationwide title without a single win
Posted 04 November 2020 - 18:30
Martinsville: 20 lead changes between 10 leaders. Now who else got that? I'm still F1 fan because it's never easy to let it go, but I now admit for years there's no show like American stock car way of racing. It's just people here in Europe don't suit ovals and all drivers are domestic (US)
Based on NASCAR going from two road course races a year to six points races plus one non points one a year in three years - including three of those being races on Rovals - it suggests that NASCAR seems to think that they need to change the 'American stock car way of racing' to try and find a new audience. Its still mostly oval and always will be but you are seeing a shift away from super speedways to short tracks and road courses (closure of Iowa, Chicagoland and Kentucky; reprofiling of Auto Club from a 2 mile super speedway to a 0.5 mile high banked short track; Charlotte and Daytona moving races from the oval to their road courses) and I don't see that slowing down any time soon.
Edited by IceAgeComing, 04 November 2020 - 18:30.
Posted 04 November 2020 - 18:56
Matt Crafton won the Truck Championship in 2019 without winning a race. But I don't think there will be a winless Cup champion in the future (from '49 to present it's never happened), but I could see a champion who who secures the title without winning the final race.
But it's more than possible, is it not?
You now what. Austin Dillon took the 2013 Nascar Nationwide title without a single win
Though, that was one of the first years(?) where drivers had to choose a series to score points in, while there wasn't much limitation on amount of races they could do. Which meant you had numerous top Cup drivers in top equipment in almost every race, while they didn't score points. It's a bit of an outlier in that regards. I'm actually surprised it hasn't happened more times, seeing how there's been multiple seasons where point-scorers have substantially less than a third of the races. Even as low as 5 out of 34 races.
Posted 04 November 2020 - 19:00
Based on NASCAR going from two road course races a year to six points races plus one non points one a year in three years - including three of those being races on Rovals - it suggests that NASCAR seems to think that they need to change the 'American stock car way of racing' to try and find a new audience. Its still mostly oval and always will be but you are seeing a shift away from super speedways to short tracks and road courses (closure of Iowa, Chicagoland and Kentucky; reprofiling of Auto Club from a 2 mile super speedway to a 0.5 mile high banked short track; Charlotte and Daytona moving races from the oval to their road courses) and I don't see that slowing down any time soon.
On road courses races are good too
Charlotte Roval: 17 lead changes between 11 leaders
Daytona Roval: 13 lead changes between 6 leaders
Posted 04 November 2020 - 20:29
Posted 05 November 2020 - 03:30
Posted 05 November 2020 - 04:27
But it's more than possible, is it not?
I think it's highly unlikely in the current system. With the addition of Playoff points, winless drivers are at a big disadvantage. They have to step it up and win or be eliminated. With the exception of Elliott in 2017, every winless Playoff driver has been cut after the Round of 12. Also as there are 36 races in a season, there are plenty of chances for a driver who is good enough to reach the Round of 4 to win at least one race. Going into the final round, drivers average nearly five wins. Xfinity and Truck drivers have shorter schedules and Cup vultures to contend with, as you pointed out. I do like the addition of the Playoff points, they help the system, but overall, it's still too broken for me to like.
Last winless drivers to be eliminated:
2017: Elliott eliminated in the Round of 8
2018: Larson, Bowman eliminated in the Round of 12
2019: Bowyer, Byron eliminated in the Round of 12
2020: Ky. Busch, Bowyer, Almirola eliminated in the Round of 12
Wins entering the title race:
Fewest: 2
Most: 8
Avg: 4.8
Posted 05 November 2020 - 04:29
Now, as I've said too much nice stuff about the Playoffs, it's time to say mean stuff >: )
This is my take on how well the 2017-present Playoffs have done in crowning a deserving driver. I do acknowledge that under a full season system, the drivers' performances and actions would have been slightly different.
2017 Did the most deserving driver win? YES
Truex finished the season 167 points* ahead of Kyle Bush, was the winningest driver of the season, and no driver that year could quite match his penchant for taking stage points and stage wins.
2018 Did the most deserving drivers win? NO
In my opinion Kyle Busch and Kevin Harvick were the best drivers that year (sorry Martin) winning eight races apiece. No one else was close on wins. But in the end Joey Logano walked away with the trophy.
2019 Did a deserving driver win? YES (But one was excluded)
The top five, Kyle Busch, Truex, Harvick, Hamlin, Logano were all pretty close this year (a 37 point* spread), but arbitrarily, only four could compete for the championship. Joey's a bit out of an outlier as he had only two wins, but he was really consistent (no DNFs, unlike the other four contenders who had one to three each). Sixth place driver Keselowski was a full 203 points* behind the leader. Take that Championship 4! 2019 might've had a Championship 5!
2020 did the most deserving driver win? NO
Obviously Harvick's been the best driver this season. Hamlin might seem like he's close, but he's not that close: Thus far he's -110 points* and Harvick has led 50% more laps.
So the current Playoffs have a 50/50 record of seeing a Champion who actually earned it crowned at season's end. Even then 2017 was the only one that went off without a hitch, Logano unfairly couldn't take his shot at the trophy in 2019. Each year goes basically the same formulaic way, and the seasons lose unique character and memorability.
*Points are calculated using the current points system, but without eliminations and resets.
Edited by MarceltheVirginian, 05 November 2020 - 04:40.
Posted 05 November 2020 - 08:02
But it's more than possible, is it not?
Though, that was one of the first years(?) where drivers had to choose a series to score points in, while there wasn't much limitation on amount of races they could do. Which meant you had numerous top Cup drivers in top equipment in almost every race, while they didn't score points. It's a bit of an outlier in that regards. I'm actually surprised it hasn't happened more times, seeing how there's been multiple seasons where point-scorers have substantially less than a third of the races. Even as low as 5 out of 34 races.
Yeah, every weekend you had Keselowski, Kyle Busch, Larson et al battling to win those Xfinity races, but none of them able to score points. So someone like Dillon didn't win and quite often didn't really get himself in among the Cup guys, but still won the title. To be honest, I really don't know how much I disliked that. I quite liked that the best of the Xfinity title contenders were always having to test themselves against the big boys.
Posted 12 November 2020 - 15:15