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Are Classic Car Prices Coming Down ?


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#1 rl1856

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Posted 18 January 2020 - 19:25

In the US, this is the weekend for the Scottsdale Az Collector Car Auctions.

 

Barrett-Jackson dominates the weekend, with several days of live auctions.  75% of the cars are post 1940 US, with many modified classics (high end hot rods) and customs among the baby boomer muscle cars.

 

However the other major players are well represented- Gooding, RM Sothebys, Bonhams and others.

 

Several are now streaming their auctions online so you can see the action in real time.

 

A trend I noticed last summer during Monterey Week seems to be continuing in Scottsdale- 90% of cars NOT achieving pre-sale estimates.  In most cases falling short by 10-20%, with some even more.

 

Just a few examples of MANY

 

Goodings

 

1967 Ferrari 330GTC Ex Onassis  / $425k  vs 750-900K

1961 MB 300SL Roadster / $700k   right on low end

1997 Ranger Rover Defender / $147,500  vs 200k

1973 Dino 246  / less than 300k   vs 325-400K

1953 Jag 120 Roadster  / $57,500   vs 80-90k

1981 Ferrari 308GTS  /  $62k    vs  90-100K

 

RM

 

1958 Ferrari 250GT Cab-Ser1  /  $5mm  vs 6-7mm

1972 Alfa Montreal  with invitation to display at "The Quail"  /  $60k   vs 100-130K  (The Quail is a show and sale during Monterey week- showing at this and similar shows can increase car value)

 

I tend to discount Barret Jackson because of all of the over the top histrionics.   But I watched their auction last night, while monitoring RM online.   There were a few very very similar cars going through both venues....Austin Healey 3000, 1966-1967 Big Block Corvettes, Lincoln MK-II,  Ser-1 and Ser-2 Jag roadsters.     Across the board, BJ seemed to achieve $5-$10k higher sales prices than RM.   Interesting.   OTH, BJ does not generally post presale estimates so it is hard to gauge results vs expectations.

 

Anyone else noticing a possible softening of the market ?



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#2 Zoe

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Posted 18 January 2020 - 19:33

Maybe just a little bit, but this will definitely be in a price range well two galaxies away from my budget. In general I think the times, when you could get a decent "classic" (meaning: a car >30 yrs) for affordable middle-class money are gone forever.

 

10 years ago or so you could get a halfway decent Espada for 40 to max 50 k€. Today, the price is in the range of 200 to 300 k€ for the same car.



#3 404KF2

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Posted 18 January 2020 - 21:02

There's the overpriced cars like those mentioned above, which certainly were a price bubble, and a major correction is to be expected.  I wish they'd collapse in value so the speculators would let the hell go having lost their shirts and enthusiasts could get back into that sort of car once again.

 

On the more affordable end of the market, a Peugeot 403 Station Wagon sold for 38 Grand US, well over the Classic-Data GmbH values and pre-auction estimates:

 

https://www.goodingc...eot-403-estate/

 

This same car sold at auction in 2013 for less than half of that.



#4 10kDA

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Posted 19 January 2020 - 14:28

Speculators - many of whom probably got involved after seeing televised script-free "reality" auction shows. Same thing happened in the vintage guitar scene. The difference between a guitar owner and a guitar player is often painfully obvious. The biggest problem with anyhting Vintage is that they're not making any more of them.



#5 BRG

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Posted 19 January 2020 - 16:01

The biggest problem with anyhting Vintage is that they're not making any more of them

 

Unfortunately, this isn't necessarily the case with classic cars which seem to multiply like amoebas. Not to mention all those 'continuation' cars that are now the craze.



#6 danmills

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Posted 19 January 2020 - 19:41

Less than 15 years ago you could buy a classic mini and drive it home with a years tax and mot and change from 300 quid.

 

Now you're looking on average at 2500-3k for something road ready and decent.

 

Not quite the skyline prices, but certainly skyline percentage increases.



#7 moffspeed

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Posted 19 January 2020 - 20:10

In reply to the O.P. - absolutely yes. Prices are softening and "normalising" for all but the most exceptional and rare cars. The same goes in the antique clock market which is my other passion. Meanwhile pre-war cars are back to very affordable values.

 

So typical "flyers" such as flat floor Series 1 E Types and Aston DB4/5's still command big prices but they are on a gradual decline. There are some wonderful bargains out there if you can think outside the box - so take a look at Facel Vegas, Bristols, Gordon Keebles etc at £50K. Inexplicably you may pay similar money for an Escort Mexico or RS2000.

 

On the positive side its a great time to pick up a well sorted Stag or Tiger at sub £30K at auction. The unloved E Type V12's are also within a whisker of this. MGB's mysteriously seem to have maintained their values.

 

If you have a large storage facility going spare then buy up as many good condition Jaguar XK-8s and XK X150's as you can - good ones out there for £10K and £15K respectively - believe me you won't regret it...


Edited by moffspeed, 19 January 2020 - 20:31.


#8 FLB

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Posted 19 January 2020 - 20:40

 

 

 Anyone else noticing a possible softening of the market ?

Yes, definitely. I had my eye on a Citroën SM at RM which was ranged between $50,000 and $70,000. It sold for $57,500. The other thing that struck me is how many cars didn't hit Reserve Price.

 

Rétromobile next month is going to be interesting.



#9 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 19 January 2020 - 20:43

If anyone's interested I can do you a really good deal on a Studebaker Avanti, the Corvette engine one. Carphone included  :lol:



#10 E1pix

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Posted 20 January 2020 - 04:59

We're in Nowhere, New Mexico and there's a little downtown building with a full exterior wall covered in an Avanti scene.

On about the fifth time by over a month, in the lot one day, sure enough, was an Avanti. I hadn't seen one in decades.

Quite a bizarre sight down here, and perhaps the work of the same Aliens that made the area famous. I didn't notice Ross' phone inside. ;-)

#11 wolf sun

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Posted 20 January 2020 - 07:50

Did a vehicle come from somewhere, out there?



#12 Hati

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Posted 20 January 2020 - 08:44

Less than 15 years ago you could buy a classic mini and drive it home with a years tax and mot and change from 300 quid.

 

Now you're looking on average at 2500-3k for something road ready and decent.

 

Not quite the skyline prices, but certainly skyline percentage increases.

This is what happens to all regular cars that are such that people like them, at some point amount of cars left is less than amount of people who want to own one and price bumps.



#13 Steve99

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Posted 20 January 2020 - 09:52

Some interesting comments on here. I have always thought the prices for classic cars - the exotic and expensive ones - to be utterly ridiculous, but agree entirely with the post about 'stocking up' on XK-8's. These are seriously undervalued. Looking for a summer sports car last year - not in the league of some of those mentioned on here, but for a bit of fun - I checked out the MX-5. They fetch silly prices, compared to other similar vehicles. Eventually I bought an MR2 Roadster, for £850, complete with MOT. Spent a few quid on it, and I have a lot of very enjoyable car for the money. I'd advise stocking up on these too, as they can't get any cheaper.



#14 Zoe

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Posted 20 January 2020 - 12:02

The problem with the (most of)  Japanese cars is, that they are not considered as collectable and thus not worth a dime. With the exception of a few notable cars like the Datsun 240Z for example, they go for very cheap, if you can find one, that is.

 

While this is good for buying one, it is a PITA in finding parts or service for it.

 

My own Celica Supra has a leaky engine and transmission; finding (for example) a replacement engine is by today very difficult, becoming harder every year, Finding someone willing to work on it (engine rebuild, tranny overhaul) is also very hard. A friend of mine owns a 197x Mitsubishi Celeste, which is even more rare than my Supra. Two years ago a motorycle rider hit the car and it was basically a write-off. He was lucky that he had stacked a few spares and found a friend who was very willing (and capable) to repair the fender to nearly as new state.

 

I find it weird, that cars like a Mustang, which you can basically build up all new with replacement parts, are worth a multiple of cars, where restauration (or even maintenance) is so much harder. All due to taste and demand of course, but not reflecting the effort required.



#15 moffspeed

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Posted 20 January 2020 - 13:08

Prices are all over the place but with a definite downward trend. However the whole market is very fickle - case in point the Jaguar XJ220.  Best part of £1/2 million new in the early 90's, then the disappointment of the "Metro" engine rather than a thumping V12 and Jaguar had difficulty off-loading them when new. By the turn of the century you would be lucky to get £110K at auction for your low mileage car. So the car that you may have bought as an "investment" alongside your F40 has suddenly lost you £400K. It stayed that way until 2014'ish, then - for whatever reason -  everyone decided that they were incredibly desirable and prices sky-rocketed. Now you would need the best part of £1/2 million again to acquire one for your stable.

 

I'm biased here, but who knows why the beautifully engineered Lancia Fulvia Coupe regularly sells at auction for approximately 1/2 the price of an equivalent Alfa Romeo 1300GT...its a funny old business.



#16 FLB

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Posted 20 January 2020 - 16:51

The problem with the (most of)  Japanese cars is, that they are not considered as collectable and thus not worth a dime. With the exception of a few notable cars like the Datsun 240Z for example, they go for very cheap, if you can find one, that is.

 

One of the exceptions:

 

https://rmsothebys.c...a-2000gt/820802

 

 

The current Ricers are probably where Muscle Cars were in the early 1980s. They'll go up… eventually.



#17 FLB

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Posted 20 January 2020 - 16:56

Prices are all over the place but with a definite downward trend. However the whole market is very fickle - case in point the Jaguar XJ220.  Best part of £1/2 million new in the early 90's, then the disappointment of the "Metro" engine rather than a thumping V12 and Jaguar had difficulty off-loading them when new. .

When I was a teen, I was close to the sales manager of a Pontiac/Buick (GM) dealership. 

 

 

They couldn't give away the Buick Grand Nationals, let alone the lone GNX they had...



#18 rl1856

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Posted 20 January 2020 - 19:34

In reply to the O.P. - absolutely yes. Prices are softening and "normalising" for all but the most exceptional and rare cars. The same goes in the antique clock market which is my other passion. Meanwhile pre-war cars are back to very affordable values.

 

So typical "flyers" such as flat floor Series 1 E Types and Aston DB4/5's still command big prices but they are on a gradual decline. There are some wonderful bargains out there if you can think outside the box - so take a look at Facel Vegas, Bristols, Gordon Keebles etc at £50K. Inexplicably you may pay similar money for an Escort Mexico or RS2000.

 

On the positive side its a great time to pick up a well sorted Stag or Tiger at sub £30K at auction. The unloved E Type V12's are also within a whisker of this. MGB's mysteriously seem to have maintained their values.

 

If you have a large storage facility going spare then buy up as many good condition Jaguar XK-8s and XK X150's as you can - good ones out there for £10K and £15K respectively - believe me you won't regret it...

 

I'm not so sure about Facel Vegas; they have really taken off in recent years..   Restored examples are 200K.   But US engined Jensens and ISO Griffo and DeThomaso are all "relatively" cheap.     Sunbeam Tigers are nudging 100K.    A good XK150 is nudging 50K in the US, fully restored cars are close to 100K.  

 

V12 Jags are probably undervalued now, and can be made to be very reliable.   My sleeper pic is the XJ-C....rare and still very cheap.    Would love to have a fully restored and mildly upgraded XJ-C V12 in BRG with dark tan leather interior.   The basic engine design is durable, fuel and ignition management can be upgraded, transmission is bullet proof, better brakes, slightly stiffer suspension, and upgraded electrics and you would have a reliable almost daily driver for about $25-$30k US.



#19 arttidesco

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Posted 20 January 2020 - 20:12

As with all things gambling if you can't afford to lose your stake don't place the bet.

 

If I had the space I'd have a warehouse full of 2002 MX5 1.8 NBFL's, but only 'cause I want a supply of affordable parts to keep mine on the road until the day I die ;-)



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#20 mikeC

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Posted 20 January 2020 - 20:25

 

 

I'm biased here, but who knows why the beautifully engineered Lancia Fulvia Coupe regularly sells at auction for approximately 1/2 the price of an equivalent Alfa Romeo 1300GT...its a funny old business.

 

Simple! Too many people now don't know what a Lancia is. My own Lancia, an early Appia, has apparently devalued by around 50% in the last couple of years - a combination of a collapse in the value of bread-and-butter 1950s cars and people's reluctance to buy something a bit out of the ordinary. I don't care, I love my car, and the money I am presently spending on a major engine rebuild is probably going to be more than the finished car is worth in monetary terms ... but it's worth it to me!



#21 404KF2

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Posted 20 January 2020 - 20:33

Same.  I've paid a pro shop for 650 hours of labour to rebuild my Peugeot 404 Pininfarina Coupé to new condition (bare shell) and that's probably close to its market value.  On top of that, new leather seats, rebuilt Kugelfischer injection pump, rebuilding everything else....I don't care; I've owned the car for 39 years - and I know its complete history/owners since new - and I will until I'm gone.  At that point, one of the kids will inherit it.  Mind you it's insured for 70 grand CAD with Hagerty....I may up that a bit once she's on the road.



#22 10kDA

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Posted 20 January 2020 - 23:07

We're in Nowhere, New Mexico and there's a little downtown building with a full exterior wall covered in an Avanti scene.

On about the fifth time by over a month, in the lot one day, sure enough, was an Avanti. I hadn't seen one in decades.

Quite a bizarre sight down here, and perhaps the work of the same Aliens that made the area famous. I didn't notice Ross' phone inside. ;-)

I often saw one parked in the dry cleaners' lot near the "Y" intersection of the Old Pecos Trail and Santa Fe Trail on the south side of Santa Fe.



#23 Ray Bell

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Posted 21 January 2020 - 02:12

I would say that an Avanti would be worth owning...

 

But to drive it, not to tuck it away unseen. Especially the Chev-engined model.



#24 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 21 January 2020 - 06:01

I would say that an Avanti would be worth owning...

 

But to drive it, not to tuck it away unseen. Especially the Chev-engined model.

The Chev engined one would be the only one to own. Stude parts are evidently getting very rare and expensive.

Interesting car. I dont want one but I appreciate them

The one I like is the late Hawk GT. A very pretty car that was old fashioned when new.



#25 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 21 January 2020 - 06:26

The problem with the (most of)  Japanese cars is, that they are not considered as collectable and thus not worth a dime. With the exception of a few notable cars like the Datsun 240Z for example, they go for very cheap, if you can find one, that is.

 

While this is good for buying one, it is a PITA in finding parts or service for it.

 

My own Celica Supra has a leaky engine and transmission; finding (for example) a replacement engine is by today very difficult, becoming harder every year, Finding someone willing to work on it (engine rebuild, tranny overhaul) is also very hard. A friend of mine owns a 197x Mitsubishi Celeste, which is even more rare than my Supra. Two years ago a motorycle rider hit the car and it was basically a write-off. He was lucky that he had stacked a few spares and found a friend who was very willing (and capable) to repair the fender to nearly as new state.

 

I find it weird, that cars like a Mustang, which you can basically build up all new with replacement parts, are worth a multiple of cars, where restauration (or even maintenance) is so much harder. All due to taste and demand of course, but not reflecting the effort required.

Z cars and 510s [1600s in Oz] are making a lot of money. And most are rusted out fatigued crap.

In the 80s and 90s I owned quite a few Zs as trades. Mostly 260 2+2s which were all rusted big time. And sculpted in bog! A 300 V6 turbo was underwhelming though not rusty but simple things like engine mounts were gold plated at the prices asked. The 260s that were near impossible t to sell, $600-$800. Now 10 times that. And a shorty much more again.

A g/f I had has a really nice early 240Z which was not rusted. Though when she was living near the beach it ended up with her son as she knew what would happen in that enviroment. Quick thing too, Webered 2.6 with compression and cam etc. She also has/ had a 370Z also. 

80s and 90s Supras [or even a Soarer] with a decent body will become desireable. All the ricers waffle about 2Js which are a decent engine but not as good as they dream!! Even 1Js. BUT that means a lot of those cars have lost there engine. And hard to replace. 

The first and second shape to me are the ones that I like, but are either wrecked , rusted out  or robbed of parts. Though putting a Chev in one is probably the go. 

All those Toymota 6s are fairly simple to fix and not that expensive either.

 

For the last 20 years I have owned a 75 Holden Kingswood Vacationer. Better than most unrestored. 122000km. Five years ago $7k would have bought it. Now I have someone on it at $20k. And that is cheap. Shitboxes are being sold for that. With 300000km.

All of those 60s 70s even 80s family cars here are starting to pull big money. The hero cars are way beyond their worth. I saw a 75 GTS Monaro 4 door less motor and tranny and rough and rusty make 25k recently. Worth saving but to me not at that price. Running and driving maybe.



#26 Steve99

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Posted 21 January 2020 - 09:25

   My sleeper pic is the XJ-C....rare and still very cheap.    Would love to have a fully restored and mildly upgraded XJ-C V12 in BRG with dark tan leather interior.  

 

I had one, in red, Daimler badged, regret selling it. Bought it for next to nothing and it was in decent nick too. 



#27 john ruston

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Posted 21 January 2020 - 21:54

Some cars are on way down whilst others holding their price or rising.
Does it matter?
The usual measure of what the fifty year old with a few quid wanted when he was fifteen still applies . Early 70’s RS Porsche’s on way down whilst newer ones on way up .
The commodity cars Ferrari’s , Pre War Bentleys , Astons , E Types went thru the roof and will come down quicker than the lower profile cars,
As soon as someone mentions that word investment it proves the people are smoking dope!

#28 D-Type

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Posted 21 January 2020 - 23:02

Some cars are on way down whilst others holding their price or rising.
Does it matter?
The usual measure of what the fifty year old with a few quid wanted when he was fifteen still applies . Early 70’s RS Porsche’s on way down whilst newer ones on way up .
The commodity cars Ferrari’s , Pre War Bentleys , Astons , E Types went thru the roof and will come down quicker than the lower profile cars,
As soon as someone mentions that word investment it proves the people are smoking dope!

I think you've hit the nail on the head.



#29 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 21 January 2020 - 23:06

Some cars are on way down whilst others holding their price or rising.
Does it matter?
The usual measure of what the fifty year old with a few quid wanted when he was fifteen still applies . Early 70’s RS Porsche’s on way down whilst newer ones on way up .
The commodity cars Ferrari’s , Pre War Bentleys , Astons , E Types went thru the roof and will come down quicker than the lower profile cars,
As soon as someone mentions that word investment it proves the people are smoking dope!

Actually more the case it is what the middle aged drove when they were young more than often. Or aspired to drive as a family member or friend had in period. Hence my thing with the Holden. And the person interested in buying it.

Though a friend of mine still has his original car that he bought at 15,, 51 years ago.


Edited by Lee Nicolle, 21 January 2020 - 23:08.


#30 10kDA

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Posted 22 January 2020 - 13:21

Actually more the case it is what the middle aged drove when they were young more than often. Or aspired to drive as a family member or friend had in period. Hence my thing with the Holden. And the person interested in buying it.

Though a friend of mine still has his original car that he bought at 15,, 51 years ago.

 

True. I had a thought that I had reached a level of means to keep an Opel GT running, which I could not do when I owned one in period. "Maybe I'll take a look at one now..." Next thought was "What was I THINKING???" which seemed to be heard in Woody Allen's voice as if from one of his voice-over scenes.



#31 Fatgadget

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Posted 23 January 2020 - 13:53

Less than 15 years ago you could buy a classic mini and drive it home with a years tax and mot and change from 300 quid.

 

Now you're looking on average at 2500-3k for something road ready and decent.

 

Not quite the skyline prices, but certainly skyline percentage increases.

Think again. A basket case Mini Cooper riddled with tin worm  17k :eek:
 



#32 FLB

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Posted 23 January 2020 - 17:44

Simple! Too many people now don't know what a Lancia is. My own Lancia, an early Appia, has apparently devalued by around 50% in the last couple of years - a combination of a collapse in the value of bread-and-butter 1950s cars and people's reluctance to buy something a bit out of the ordinary. I don't care, I love my car, and the money I am presently spending on a major engine rebuild is probably going to be more than the finished car is worth in monetary terms ... but it's worth it to me!

About 10 years ago, John Scotti (near Montreal) had a 1976 Beta Scorpion (the North American Beta Monte Carlo) whose 2 barrel Weber was calling me like a siren.

 

 

(RegrettabIy, I chickened out, but one day, my lovely...)



#33 FLB

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Posted 14 August 2021 - 11:28

I don't know if anybody else here is following what is happening at Monterey. but the market seems a bit soft, to me at least. At RM yesterday, quite a few cars either sold under expectations, notably the ex-Filipinetti 275 GTB / C and the ex-Scuderia Ferrari 268 SP (0798), or didn't sell like a Porsche 550 Spyder with an established history.



#34 10kDA

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Posted 14 August 2021 - 12:23

I don't know if anybody else here is following what is happening at Monterey. but the market seems a bit soft, to me at least. At RM yesterday, quite a few cars either sold under expectations, notably the ex-Filipinetti 275 GTB / C and the ex-Scuderia Ferrari 268 SP (0798), or didn't sell like a Porsche 550 Spyder with an established history.

Hmmm... if this is going on within the vintage car market as a whole, I'll take a look. Cars such as referenced appearing at auctions are way beyond my $$$ comfort zone, but if unbrokered sales by owners are also trending this way, it could be interesting. Vintage and even not-so-vintage guitars and amps are way, way, up right now, to the point that it might be possible to convert some of my considerable stock of music gear into a rolling money pit. C3 Corvette? Graham Hollywood? '71 Firebird Formula? '59 Imperial? All first-rate pits. LOL



#35 Hati

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Posted 14 August 2021 - 13:47

Hmmm... if this is going on within the vintage car market as a whole, I'll take a look.

 

Hobbyist cars follow at some accuracy general economic trend, some people forget them in barn but for most people extra car is an extra expense and when there is uncertainty of financial future it's easily the first thing to go. And when others face same uncertainty there are less potential buyers which drives prices down. Although prices have not plummeted I think that due to pandemic some people with extra money may make great finds.
 



#36 Doug Nye

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Posted 14 August 2021 - 15:10

There are people who are interested in all forms of motor sport regardless of period, there are people interested in cars per se, and then there are people who obsess about the current market for old bangers - seemingly obsessing more about the here-and-now financial aspects of their hobby, than about the artefacts of perceived value themselves.  

 

Can such a current concern qualify as 'Nostalgia"?

 

DCN



#37 john aston

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Posted 14 August 2021 - 17:53

The sordid matter of coin always has the capacity to taint both old cars and their owners. I admire the approach taken by the driver of  an Elan I chatted to at a Cadwell HSCC meeting  recently . Mentioning that Lincolnshire's jewel of a race circuit was unforgiving of error , he allowed that it wasn't too important as his old car probably was hardly  worth very much anyway . I asked him how much he thought it was worth - 'oh , ten thousand ? '. I am no expert in such things but I suggested that 40 k was nearer . He was gobsmacked , but the revelation didn't reduce his pace ...   



#38 BRG

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Posted 14 August 2021 - 19:21

Everything - cars, classic or otherwise, included - is worth only what someone is willing to pay for it.  A lesson that many people struggle to understand. 

 

When my brother got divorced and had to sell the family house, it wouldn't sell, not for months.  I told him to knock £10k off the price and it would sell within days.  Eventually he did, and it did.  



#39 john aston

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Posted 15 August 2021 - 06:34

True - but it's a funny old world when an Escort RS 1600 is worth 60k plus , and Austin/ Morris Mini Cooper S 35k...



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#40 Bloggsworth

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Posted 15 August 2021 - 08:56

I see that a modern McLaren has just sold for over $20 million - It has ceased to be a car and become a folder in an investment portfolio...



#41 BRG

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Posted 15 August 2021 - 12:04

True - but it's a funny old world when an Escort RS 1600 is worth 60k plus , and Austin/ Morris Mini Cooper S 35k...

The fact that Escorts are still highly prized as rally cars, both for historic and current rallying, has pushed the price up.  Mint cars in original spec, unrallied or raced, are getting rarer than ever, and there is a strong 'old skool Ford' enthusiasts movement, hence the high price.  Cooper S's were reasonably common road cars and most seem to have been preserved, possible more than were ever made!

 

I see that a modern McLaren has just sold for over $20 million - It has ceased to be a car and become a folder in an investment portfolio...

All modern supercars/hypercars/megacars (make up your own hyperbole) are just investments.  Nobody buys them to drive to work or the shops or even to drive them at all.  They go straight into heated storage.  Madness and I hope those doing it end up catching a financial cold when the bubble bursts.


Edited by BRG, 15 August 2021 - 12:05.


#42 Doug Nye

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Posted 15 August 2021 - 13:02

All it will take is a prick.

 

DCN



#43 Emery0323

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Posted 15 August 2021 - 16:36

One item I was watching on the live stream from RM Sotheby's last night was the Porsche 917-031 (formerly 026), which had a very limited JW Gulf race history as the car David Hobbs and Mike Hailwood drove at LeMans in 1970, with race No. 22:

 

https://rmsothebys.c...e-917-k/1102159

 

Hailwood crashed it in the wet, rainy conditions, to John Wyer's disgust.  It is also a "movie car", since it won the fictionalized version of the race in Steve McQueen's "Le Mans".

 

Its race history in endurance racing was limited to that one race, it then got refitted as an Interseries/Can-Am type spyder, and Jurgen Neuhaus ran it in the Interseries in the early 1970's.   It's since been restored to JWA /Gulf bodywork and livery.

 

In the early 2000's you saw these cars selling in the neighborhood of ~$1 million,  there was another JW Gulf car that sold a few years ago for, I think, ~$14M (?).    RM Sotheby's estimated this one at ~$16M - 18M, but bidding topped out at $15M, which apparently was below its reserve.   

 

These cars, and the JW Gulf team livery are very famous, but the escalation in value (real or expected) is dizzying nonetheless!


Edited by Emery0323, 15 August 2021 - 16:39.


#44 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 16 August 2021 - 03:25

A couple of years later and collectable and rare cars are making huge [stupid??] money

What cars are selling for here now is to me as a dealer too much. The headline cars such as Torana A9X or HSV Commodores defies logic. Though in saying that I have sold minor collectables for semi serious money in recent months. For the first time in around 40 years I am a Torana free zone.

In fact a real Holden free zone. Commodores are never real Holdens!!  Though early ones of those are getting very collectable as well these days.

And not the upmarket models but the 'normal' family car models. Especially the V8s. A 253 VB SL people seem to think they are getting a Brock Commodore!!



#45 RobertE

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Posted 16 August 2021 - 08:36

One major problem (if it is at all) is that many people who buy cars now don't actually know much about them. In the 70's, after an oil-induced infarction hit demand, the prices suddenly became affordable. My car history illustrates this:

1. Sunbeam Rapier convertible. £15.

2. Mercedes 190 SL. £300.

3. MGC. £600.

4. Aston DB4. £400. 

At some point these things became 'style icons', discovered by the ad people and they became 'cool'...

 

Woops. Up went the prices, with property and other 'asset classes' and, dangerously, loans were offered, which started to inflate the bubble, based upon the 'greater fool theory'. 'Expert' dealers (middlemen) emerged rapidly and the trade, as it always does, played fast and loose with all the implications of that. For every ten 'dealers, perhaps one will actually lay out cash. And then, there were people like Coys...

 

And so on. I used to buy old cars because the new ones were so awful that I couldn't countenance being seen dead in one. Now, cars are as good as they can be from a technical point of view, older cars become less attractive, at least from that point of view. But they all look the same, are beset with incomprehensible difficulties and are fundamentally ugly.

 

Prices have undeniably softened, but I don't care; there are still cars I would like to own, electric cars are a blind alley and I will never be seen driving such a streamlined milk float.

 

One actually drives an older car - concentration levels are higher and, that niggling doubt about whether the journey will be fault free is part of the involvement; a small triumph in arriving!



#46 geoffd

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Posted 16 August 2021 - 09:20

One actually drives an older car - concentration levels are higher and, that niggling doubt about whether the journey will be fault free is part of the involvement; a small triumph in arriving!

 

I certainly agree with this bit!



#47 F1matt

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Posted 16 August 2021 - 09:51

True - but it's a funny old world when an Escort RS 1600 is worth 60k plus , and Austin/ Morris Mini Cooper S 35k...

 

 

This makes sense to me, the people who grew up admiring the Ford RS's and similar cars now have the money to pay a premium for a quality example, similar to the occasional Audi Quattro going for half a million quid, it is a generation thing. 



#48 john aston

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Posted 16 August 2021 - 16:44

 I spent plenty of time watching and listening to sundry RS Escorts and I also owned a couple of more housetrained  Escorts .  I still find it extraordinary  how the price (rather than value ) of relatively humdrum cars can be so fuelled by nostalgia  . When the Escort was winning rallies , nobody got especially feverish about old cars then the same age as the Escort is now - so cars like MG M Types and Frazer Nash Ulsters were just old cars , and affordable for many enthusiasts . 

 

Nostalgia sure ain't what it used to be - the grotesque spike in prices by what became the classic industry has a lot to answer for .   . 



#49 Bloggsworth

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Posted 16 August 2021 - 18:40

I was offered a Straight 8 Railton for £10 when I was leaving school, didn't have two ha'pennies to rub together at the time.



#50 Zoe

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Posted 16 August 2021 - 18:44

That seems to be the general problem with old cars (and the stock market). At the time when they were still affordable (in relation to today) one could not afford even that little price. Today that original price would be no problem, but the price has now increased by magnitudes.