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(Technical Thread) Mercedes-AMG W11 EQ Power+


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#1 ToniF1

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Posted 28 January 2020 - 16:23

It fired up...and in are good tradition, it sounds ominous

 

 

1500x500.jpg



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#2 Branislav

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Posted 28 January 2020 - 16:27

I hope it will not be dominant.



#3 Sunnny

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Posted 28 January 2020 - 16:29

Sounds fast



#4 7MGTEsup

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Posted 28 January 2020 - 16:48

Looks under developed....



#5 ToniF1

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Posted 28 January 2020 - 16:50

Well they said they have to take off a little bit of drag...



#6 dn12005

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Posted 28 January 2020 - 17:10

Sounds ominous....and omnipotent! 



#7 SonGoku

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Posted 28 January 2020 - 17:31

I hope the engine will be better so we don't have to fear every long straight anymore.

#8 MasterOfCoin

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Posted 28 January 2020 - 17:33

giphy.gif?cid=790b7611f4e9575143de66e96a



#9 kernel

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Posted 28 January 2020 - 17:37

I hope the engine will be better so we don't have to fear every long straight anymore.

 

If the rumours are true that some of the issues with the PU in 2019 were cooling-related (due to the W10 being marginal), then Merc PU inside the W11 is due for a boost regardless (on top of drag reduction being on the menu).



#10 BuddyHolly

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Posted 28 January 2020 - 18:09

I hope its a dog, I cannot take yet another year of Merc domination.



#11 Marklar

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Posted 28 January 2020 - 19:15

the margin between a dog and dominant is rather huge



#12 GoldenColt

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Posted 28 January 2020 - 19:28

Not to jinx anything, but I just don't see MAMG getting this one wrong. There are too many factors aligned in their favour, from the rules being virtually the same, to their track-record since 2014, to Pirelli using the exact same tyres again. This isn't McLaren, they aren't going to enter the last season of a certain set of rules with a revolutionary car, only to fall on their face and waste an entire season eating sh*t.


Edited by GoldenColt, 28 January 2020 - 19:32.


#13 Unicast

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Posted 28 January 2020 - 20:06

I think this is obviously the car which is to (again) set the standard, this year in F1.

Coming on the back on one of the most impressive achievements in F1 (6 titles in a row surpassing Ferrari), Mercedes looks by far the most robust, rigorous, consistent and ambitious team in the history of F1.

I expect nothing less than another state of the art car and if either RedBull or Ferrari are to beat them this year, they must achieve something of monumental proportions.


Edited by Unicast, 29 January 2020 - 09:17.


#14 SonGoku

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Posted 28 January 2020 - 20:55

Not to jinx anything, but I just don't see MAMG getting this one wrong. There are too many factors aligned in their favour, from the rules being virtually the same, to their track-record since 2014, to Pirelli using the exact same tyres again. This isn't McLaren, they aren't going to enter the last season of a certain set of rules with a revolutionary car, only to fall on their face and waste an entire season eating sh*t.


Predicting car performances is always difficult, you can say even Merc had some weak points last season even when they dominated a lot.

I agree with you that if nothing strange happens Merc should be in a good position. Ferrari is going to try a whole new aero package to improve their chassis and I think that will be easier said than done, but we will see. Ferrari engine is strong though. RBR will build a good car as always but this is the first season with Honda where they need to be fast and reliable if they want to compete for the title. 5 engines in a season isn't going to do it vs Mercedes, but we will see.

#15 Blackmamba

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Posted 29 January 2020 - 09:25

Are they gonna bring 2 iterations of the W11 as they did last pre-season? I hope not as I felt they wasted 4 days of testing unnecessarily which could have been detrimental if Ferrari had realised their potential early on.

#16 Jordan44

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Posted 29 January 2020 - 15:06

Are they gonna bring 2 iterations of the W11 as they did last pre-season? I hope not as I felt they wasted 4 days of testing unnecessarily which could have been detrimental if Ferrari had realised their potential early on.


I don't think it was wasted testing time as the first week of testing is usually more system checks than anything. There are rumours Ferrari are going to do the same this year, but that's because they're lacking confidence in their concept. Can't see Merc doing the same as this car will be an evolution of last year's successful machine.

#17 ToniF1

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Posted 01 February 2020 - 17:44

"The car that we're going to be showing up with in Melbourne, the first thoughts went into that car at the tail end of 2018. The whole of the 2019 season hadn't happened. We hadn't even run our 2019 car. We'd only started testing bits of it in the factory around the time we were thinking what we were going to do in 2020."

 

Allison explained how the process starts slowly but ramps up as the season progresses with more focus being shifted from the current car to the next.

 

If this was the case with the 2020 car, it can be expected that, before the budget cap is introduced for 2021, Mercedes will already have a sizable team working on the 2021 car to ensure that the Silver Arrows remain top dogs in the sport

 

 

https://www.gpfans.c...gan-on-the-w11/


Edited by ToniF1, 01 February 2020 - 17:45.


#18 Marklar

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Posted 04 February 2020 - 11:54

From that Tami girl on twitter

Mercedes engineers promise two to three innovations (2020 car) that have never been seen before. Toto Wolff didn’t reveal whether Mercedes will start with just a test car and bring the 2020 aero package only in the second week. 

Reading between the lines you can hear that the version of the first test day will be much closer to the car that will be driving in Melbourne!
Toto Wolff: "But assume that our car will look different on the sixth test day than on the first one."
With the new engine Mercedes wants to become number 1 on the engine side again.
Not only by increasing the power. They think that Ferrari had to take a step backwards according to the technical directives.

I assume it's from the printversion of AMuS, I'll check after work if there is more info.

edit: also comment from Cowell on the engine development https://twitter.com/...632846821752834


Edited by Marklar, 04 February 2020 - 12:06.


#19 Ali623

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Posted 04 February 2020 - 12:31

https://www.motorspo...r-unit/4680239/

 

Mercedes has hinted that improvements to its Formula 1 power unit for 2020 have not come without challenges as it closes in on the spec that it will start the season with.

 

In a video clip issued on social media, Mercedes engine boss Andy Cowell said that the manufacturer has made progress but was "fighting a few little issues as ever," while the accompanying tweet noted "if you don't have setbacks, you're not trying hard enough".

 

Mercedes revealed on January 28th that the new power unit had already been run in the W11 chassis.

"Lots going on in Brixworth, lots of improvements across the whole power unit, on the ERS side, on the internal combustion engine side," said Cowell. "As ever fighting a few little issues as we pull everything together.

"So lots of work going into building the right spec, getting it long-runned, and then providing power units to the teams so that they can fire up their cars - I think you've spotted one that's fired up already!

 

"And then getting the hardware ready to go track testing. Car launch on February 14th, with a red rose, and then off to Barcelona with three cars hopefully pounding round the track.

"Just six days of track testing then before we're off to Melbourne."Cowell said that Mercedes is already readying the race engines required by its three teams and six cars at the start of the season.

"And the race pool, a huge number of those parts already made, assemblies going together, and the challenge of getting everything to the other side of the world.

"So a busy time, chasing bits of performance, getting the reliability there, getting the huge amount of hardware together, and getting it to the other side of the world."

 

 



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#20 alframsey

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Posted 04 February 2020 - 12:52

Well I expect the new car to be at the shape end, if not fastest then a very close second. I don't see RBR being outright fastest tbh for some reason and if rumours are true re Ferrari struggles then I feel Merc will once again be in the pound seat. Either way the car will be at the sharp end and no less than a close second and we know the team and Lewis are Good enough to make up that deficit. I cannot wait.



#21 kernel

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Posted 04 February 2020 - 14:45

From that Tami girl on twitter

Mercedes engineers promise two to three innovations (2020 car) that have never been seen before. Toto Wolff didn’t reveal whether Mercedes will start with just a test car and bring the 2020 aero package only in the second week. 

Reading between the lines you can hear that the version of the first test day will be much closer to the car that will be driving in Melbourne!
Toto Wolff: "But assume that our car will look different on the sixth test day than on the first one."
With the new engine Mercedes wants to become number 1 on the engine side again.
Not only by increasing the power. They think that Ferrari had to take a step backwards according to the technical directives.

I assume it's from the printversion of AMuS, I'll check after work if there is more info.

edit: also comment from Cowell on the engine development https://twitter.com/...632846821752834

 

Isn't an innovation, by definition, something that has not been seen before? I do wonder what scope there is left in the current regs to develop new stuff that's never been seen before.

 

Re: second bit bold, shouldn't it be the version they roll out on the second test be closer to Melbourne than the first (like in 2019)?

 

A bit worrying on the PU side, but glad to see they are pushing hard finally after years of resting on their laurels at Brixworth.



#22 Jordan44

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Posted 04 February 2020 - 15:04

Isn't an innovation, by definition, something that has not been seen before? I do wonder what scope there is left in the current regs to develop new stuff that's never been seen before.

Re: second bit bold, shouldn't it be the version they roll out on the second test be closer to Melbourne than the first (like in 2019)?

A bit worrying on the PU side, but glad to see they are pushing hard finally after years of resting on their laurels at Brixworth.


All teams will have these sorts of issues. I remember watching a documentary about their preperations for the 2015 season and they couldn't get the engine fired up after installing it in the chassis a week before the test. Look how that season went in the end.

#23 SonGoku

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Posted 04 February 2020 - 16:11

They have to force the issue, because they are behind Ferrari on the engine side no matter the FIA directives and Ferrari also won't sit on their hands during the break.

#24 ArrowsLivery

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Posted 04 February 2020 - 16:21

Not to jinx anything, but I just don't see MAMG getting this one wrong. There are too many factors aligned in their favour, from the rules being virtually the same, to their track-record since 2014, to Pirelli using the exact same tyres again. This isn't McLaren, they aren't going to enter the last season of a certain set of rules with a revolutionary car, only to fall on their face and waste an entire season eating sh*t.


While your theory is sound, there is also a good chance Merc will run into an unstoppable Max-Honda-RBR meatgrinder. :clap:

#25 Jordan44

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Posted 04 February 2020 - 16:40

While your theory is sound, there is also a good chance Merc will run into an unstoppable Max-Honda-RBR meatgrinder. :clap:


Why do you think Red Bull will finally get it right? Their chassis hasn't exactly been up to scratch since the 2017 regulations came in. In terms of wins they even did worse this season than previously despite Honda making big gains. I see Red Bull once again being behind Ferrari and Mercedes and not because of Honda.

Edited by Jordan44, 04 February 2020 - 16:42.


#26 Ali623

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Posted 04 February 2020 - 16:50

Why do you think Red Bull will finally get it right? Their chassis hasn't exactly been up to scratch since the 2017 regulations came in. In terms of wins they even did worse this season than previously despite Honda making big gains. I see Red Bull once again being behind Ferrari and Mercedes and not because of Honda.

 

 

Their chassis was great in 2018, best on the grid (dominated Monaco, had the best tyre wear) which is another good reason to be hopeful this season. They tend to get it spot second time around, and this year they'll have (should have) the engine to match.



#27 Jordan44

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Posted 04 February 2020 - 16:53

Their chassis was great in 2018, best on the grid (dominated Monaco, had the best tyre wear) which is another good reason to be hopeful this season. They tend to get it spot second time around, and this year they'll have (should have) the engine to match.

Hardly call Monaco domination - they nabbed pole by two tenths from the Ferrari. And then once again did nothing for the rest of the season, hence why they are nowhere close to challenging for the title. Not the best chassis by any stretch in my opinion. At the peak of mechanical grip & downforce requirements maybe it's the car to have, but Mercedes always build a car that is best suited to the 'average' race track in the 21 season calendar. As for superior tyre wear, maybe in the early parts of the season but as soon as Merc had their bumped wheel rims, they appear to have lost that crown as well. Sticking to my guns it will be: Merc, then Ferrari, then Red Bull with Red Bull once again hiding their underachievement under the engine

Edited by Jordan44, 04 February 2020 - 16:57.


#28 68targa

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Posted 04 February 2020 - 16:57

It seems that the longer a formula remains unchanged then the closer the competition becomes. All teams have had several years to work these regs. Honda have improved, Ferrari have improved. Mercedes got it right from the beginning but how much more can they improve ?

Is 2020 going to be the classic year before the regs change again ?  I hope so.



#29 Ali623

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Posted 04 February 2020 - 16:59

Hardly call Monaco domination - they nabbed pole by two tenths from the Ferrari. And then once again did nothing for the rest of the season, hence why they are nowhere close to challenging for the title. Not the best chassis by any stretch in my opinion. At the peak of mechanical grip & downforce requirements maybe it's the car to have, but Mercedes always build a car that is best suited to the 'average' race track in the 21 season calendar. As for superior tyre wear, maybe in the early parts of the season but as soon as Merc had their bumped wheel rims, they appear to have lost that crown as well

 

They did 'nothing' mainly because they were unable to qualify highly and suffered reliability problems, both engine related.



#30 Jordan44

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Posted 04 February 2020 - 17:01

They did 'nothing' mainly because they were unable to qualify highly and suffered reliability problems, both engine related.

But also because the chassis is nowhere as good as they like to pretend.

In wet conditions, Mercedes are still dominant. The ultimate test of mechanical grip and downforce.

Edited by Jordan44, 04 February 2020 - 17:02.


#31 Marklar

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Posted 04 February 2020 - 17:05

Their chassis was great in 2018, best on the grid (dominated Monaco, had the best tyre wear) which is another good reason to be hopeful this season. They tend to get it spot second time around, and this year they'll have (should have) the engine to match.

The only races they dominated were Mexico and Sao Paulo - due to the altitude.

I'm not really sure where the myth that they get it right the 2nd time around comes from either. There were constant rule changes between 2009 and 2011, so it's not that already (that aside that their best car in that period was probably the 2010 car, reliability aside). 2012 then was a downgrade to all those years before. Their 2015 car was much worse than their 2014 car. Only their 2018 car was a little bit better than their 2017 car.



#32 Ali623

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Posted 04 February 2020 - 17:06

But also because the chassis is nowhere as good as they like to pretend.

In wet conditions, Mercedes are still dominant. The ultimate test of mechanical grip and downforce.

 

In wet conditions Hamilton is dominant, don't remember Bottas, or even Rosberg ever having particularly good races in the wet. In fact I remember Bottas holding up Verstappen at the German GP last year.



#33 Jordan44

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Posted 04 February 2020 - 17:06

In wet conditions Hamilton is dominant, don't remember Bottas, or even Rosberg ever having particularly good races in the wet. In fact I remember Bottas holding up Verstappen at the German GP last year.


Didn't Bottas regularly qualify second in the numerous wet races we had in 2018? Hungary springs to mind? Which is also a chassis track and one of Red Bull's favoured destinations. (yet their record there is also not good).

Edited by Jordan44, 04 February 2020 - 17:07.


#34 Marklar

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Posted 04 February 2020 - 17:15

Mercedes advantage in wet conditions comes mostly from the engine: It has the best elasticity and drivability.

Though of course Hamilton might exagerate the advantage a bit, but I doubt that he is so much better than Verstappen in wet conditions relative to normal conditions.

But that's not an indicator on the best chassis, even Ferrari occasionally beats Red Bull in wet conditions after all.

Though I dont really see anything that suggests that Red Bull had the best chassis in any of the previous years. In fact I recall even Marko admitting in 2018 that they didnt nailed it. They were the best in slow corners only for a couple of years (with Mercedes being better in medium/quick corners), but they lost even that advantage last year.



#35 Marklar

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Posted 05 February 2020 - 09:43

From that Tami girl on twitter

Mercedes engineers promise two to three innovations (2020 car) that have never been seen before. Toto Wolff didn’t reveal whether Mercedes will start with just a test car and bring the 2020 aero package only in the second week. 
Reading between the lines you can hear that the version of the first test day will be much closer to the car that will be driving in Melbourne!
Toto Wolff: "But assume that our car will look different on the sixth test day than on the first one."
With the new engine Mercedes wants to become number 1 on the engine side again.
Not only by increasing the power. They think that Ferrari had to take a step backwards according to the technical directives.
 

I assume it's from the printversion of AMuS, I'll check after work if there is more info.

Btw nothing else from the technical side on that one, except that Wolff thinks that this year the title will be harder to get (of course) because the rules have not changed. Rule changes are an advantage for Mercedes due to their "structures and innovative energy".

I posted the rest of his quotes - including saying that Mercedes will stay - from that article in the Mercedes quitting thread.



#36 ToniF1

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Posted 05 February 2020 - 16:08

Information gathered ahead of time reveals changes that may help the team to unlock latent performance from a machine that was already pretty formidable last season.

Having scrutinized its own weaknesses and closely studied the opposition’s designs, Mercedes has taken a design concept introduced by Ferrari in 2017 and refined it to suit its own package.

 

The intent of this design concept is to improve flow quality into the radiator inlet and reduce the negative impact that the front tyre wake has on flow into and around the entire sidepod structure.

For 2020, Mercedes will join this group, lowering and bringing the uppermost side impact protection spars forward to improve power unit performance and reliability, while reducing drag and refining the aerodynamic output of the car.

 

Mercedes is keen to edge out rivals when it comes to power unit performance once more in 2020, having given up ground to them last season.

 

Improving cooling efficiency will therefore be high on the agenda, in order that it can run in higher power modes for longer, as it clearly was unable to exploit the power unit upgrades introduced last season. It will expect further power gains in 2020 that must be unlocked to assure its continued success.

 

The W10 was already pretty extreme around the midriff, with a distinctive shape to the chassis that pulled everything as close to the body as possible.

 

To maximise this further, and to take advantage of the new shapes and contours in this region, it will come as no surprise if the W11 were to feature a revised fuel tank layout too, allowing even more scope for the revised radiator and sidepod packaging, while also improving weight distribution.

 

 

https://www.motorspo...rcedes/4680017/



#37 Paco

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Posted 05 February 2020 - 16:33

Man I hope these supposed innovations are not shark fin like or walrus nose penis nose like introductions and actually enhance the look of the car.. especially if others follow suit.

#38 ToniF1

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Posted 06 February 2020 - 09:01

EQBs0n-HWAAAKNg-Q.jpg

 

https://twitter.com/...098758767173634



#39 OO7

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Posted 06 February 2020 - 09:29

That looks like an old steering wheel, circa 2017 or earlier.



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#40 w1Y

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Posted 06 February 2020 - 13:53

when does the new netflix series come out

#41 Pimpwerx

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Posted 06 February 2020 - 15:23

when does the new netflix series come out

End of the month for me. I think February 26th. Not sure if there's any stagger for different regions.



#42 Pimpwerx

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Posted 06 February 2020 - 15:28

If Merc is going with higher sidepods inlets, ala Ferrari and Red Bull, then I wonder if that changes their suspension geometry. They've gone with a high-mounted suspension previously. This allowed them to work the airflow lower. High-sidepod teams all seem to run the lower (traditional) suspension mounts. 

 

Also, I wonder if high sidepods will now lead to higher rake on the car. I'm eager to see what the car looks like at the unveiling, although that will not be Melbourne-spec.



#43 ToniF1

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Posted 06 February 2020 - 15:41

Nose is back to more straigth design ? I didnt like last years nose top...

 

 

https://twitter.com/...436773561634816

 

EQGg-P9i-XYAAfeoo.jpg



#44 CL16

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Posted 07 February 2020 - 18:01

From today’s teaser looks like they’re getting matt paint too.

#45 jjcale

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Posted 07 February 2020 - 18:50

Sounds ominous....and omnipotent! 

 

and maybe God is on its side ... according to Max



#46 nemanja

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Posted 07 February 2020 - 18:55

ELruEP2X0AEL6tJ.jpgELruFnnWwAUMCWX.jpgELruE1cWoAAMuwj.jpg



#47 lio007

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Posted 08 February 2020 - 05:19

Some information from F1technical by mudflap:

-Car mechanical design for 2021 is well underway.

-Cooling system for 2020 will see a massive revamp, expected to be even smaller than last year's!! Not clear if it will be ready in time for Melbourne.

-Engine has seen the largest bump in power over a winter since the start of the hybrid era, unfortunately reliability has also been at an all time low for these engines. Early spec 2 is on the cards if the problems can't be solved in time.

-Several team leaders in Brixworth have recently left. Unclear what is going on.



#48 ferrarista

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Posted 08 February 2020 - 08:07

Some information from F1technical by mudflap:

the unreliability associated with such large steps in power doesn’t come unexpected, the law of diminishing returns is starting to hit hard the manufacturers.

#49 Marklar

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Posted 08 February 2020 - 08:41

The dude also said that they had similar issues last year but recovered by rolling back some things, something that is due to architecture changes less likely this year.

imo reliability matters more than power.

also wonder what's up with those departures: were they let go or did other teams lured them out? 🤔

Edited by Marklar, 08 February 2020 - 08:42.


#50 SonGoku

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Posted 08 February 2020 - 10:35

Not really that good news unfortunately...hope they get things right before Melbourne.