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(Technical Thread) Mercedes-AMG W11 EQ Power+


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#501 tokengator82

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Posted Today, 02:53

As awesome and exciting last season's winter testing was, this one has got to be a borefest. Impossible to live up to that standard, with the regulations staying the same.

The only interesting thing is perhaps Red Bull duplicating what Merc did last season, with a "new" car later in testing. Other than that, yawn.

Last year was a borefest, too.

You just experienced it differently because you latched onto every rumor, nameless engineer quote, the body language contest and all this sent you reeling into a path of despair. If i remember correctly the "experts" had merc 2nd behind Ferrari, then 3rd behind RB and finally by the end of the first week merc was deemed midfield caliber. It was all BS to generate clicks because that is the current media model- clicks- not actual reporting

The vast majority of us yawned and could not believe people were buying into the BS being thrown around.

Btw its happening again this year but this time with Ferrari. Gary Andersen is declaring the Ferrari is a dog which i don't buy for a second, just as I didnt buy the merc doomfest last year

Edited by tokengator82, Today, 02:56.


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#502 w1Y

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Posted Today, 03:02

Last year was a borefest, too.

You just experienced it differently because you latched onto every rumor, nameless engineer quote, the body language contest and all this sent you reeling into a path of despair. If i remember correctly the "experts" had merc 2nd behind Ferrari, then 3rd behind RB and finally by the end of the first week merc was deemed midfield caliber. It was all BS to generate clicks because that is the current media model- clicks- not actual reporting

The vast majority of us yawned and could not believe people were buying into the BS being thrown around.

Btw its happening again this year but this time with Ferrari. Gary Andersen is declaring the Ferrari is a dog which i don't buy for a second, just as I didnt buy the merc doomfest last year


Forumers doing it is one thing but professionals doing it is just embarrassing.

Ferrari are keeping their cards very close to their chest so far.

Lets see what day 2 brings

#503 Timstr11

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Posted Today, 03:51

My favorite view of F1 cars as it best demonstrates the extent to which a team has been able to shrink the sidepods  and engine cover. Impressive.

 

589.jpg


Edited by Timstr11, Today, 03:52.


#504 Timstr11

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Posted Today, 04:04

A little more on the unique rear suspension design that I was alluding to a few pages ago (re: hugely boosting diffuser performance):

 

https://streamable.com/kvowu

 

I think this picture best demonstrates what Kravitz is trying to explain. The lower suspension parts cascaded and moved backward in such a way that they flick up the airflow empowering the diffuser:

 

Valtteri-Bottas-Mercedes-F1-Test-Barcelo


Edited by Timstr11, Today, 04:09.


#505 OO7

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Posted Today, 05:17

The rear suspensions on these cars are a work of art.



#506 femi

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Posted Today, 05:54

Man, you can say whatever you want. On the first of testing the Pink W10 with the 2020 PU does a 17.3 on C3s on a car that was somewhat loaded with fuel. And finishes 3rd.

Meanwhile the W11 with the Champ onboard does twice a 16.9 on C2s both on 14-15 lap stints and the car laps constantly on medium stints on the mid-high 18's. And it covers 180 laps in one day.

Meanwhile Shov, Toto and Allison are seen laughing in the pitlane.

If you can't see this is already over...

Not sure the "Pink Mercedes" was that loaded with fuel. They were making short runs and spending a bit of time in the pits which suggested refuelling as opposed to RB doing longer runs and quite short pit stops which suggested little or no refuelling. This was according to F1.com analysis



#507 femi

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Posted Today, 06:10

Merc is one of the few teams that can leave me puzzled by a good performance. I did not expect them to to the time sheets. It's not their nature to do glory runs. I'm hoping their time on day 1 hint at a savage dominance lurking within. It would be a nice way to cap off this mini-era.

At the end of the day, it all has to with testing program. If they are reusing significant components already tested towards the end of last season, these are known and therefore do not need to waste track time revalidating them. If they need to test engine life and car balance under track conditions, then they might just load it up and do as many laps as they can. Don't know if there is a better way to test for overall reliability, stability and the setting of baselines and confirmation of factory simulation data.

 

I suspect them to slow down a little as they start introducing new parts, components and systems as the week progressed. May even see that this afternoon.



#508 femi

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Posted Today, 06:25

Looked pretty smooth to me, only saw one instance of understeer. Engine didn't sound like it was running at full beans at all, wasn't over-revving.

The pick-up at corner exits sounded a bit sluggish. Could just be my untrained ear reading though. The displays appeared blacked out


Edited by femi, Today, 06:26.


#509 w1Y

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Posted Today, 06:56

I imagine that most the focus on first few days is testing the suspensions effect on tyres and testing different set ups for the suspension.

#510 femi

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Posted Today, 07:21

I imagine that most the focus on first few days is testing the suspensions effect on tyres and testing different set ups for the suspension.

Probably, but will require series of short runs spaced out by length pit stops.



#511 femi

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Posted Today, 07:25

ERJxq4oW4AMs5JP.jpg

 

 

Red Bull’s Dr Helmut Marko told Auto Bild: “I am sure McLaren and Renault will have their opinion, but we are staying out of it.”


#512 CL16

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Posted Today, 07:47

That lap from Lewis looked like a Sunday drive.

#513 Huffer

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Posted Today, 08:05

So the first day results looked pretty solid - I wasn't expecting those consecutive fast laps though. I'm remaining skeptical about Merc's overall ranking, but the car does look to be fairly competitive. It's really a case of how much performance RBR and Ferrari are hiding with their own test plan at the moment. I guess we won;t really see anything until the season opener. 



#514 milestone 11

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Posted Today, 09:47

Something going on with the steering column moving in and out. MARKER.

#515 superdelphinus

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Posted Today, 09:50

Yeah what was that all about?



#516 vlado

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Posted Today, 09:51

Something going on with the steering column moving in and out. MARKER.

 

They are manually changing the toe ... Watch the front wheels as he pulls the wheel  :drunk:

 

https://twitter.com/...6090593280?s=20



#517 milestone 11

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Posted Today, 09:57

They are manually changing the toe ... Watch the front wheels as he pulls the wheel  :drunk:
 
https://twitter.com/...6090593280?s=20[/size]

This shows it clearer, https://streamable.com/e48rq thanks Frood.

#518 milestone 11

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Posted Today, 09:58

Illegal?

#519 CL16

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Posted Today, 10:00

Legal, it’s just a steering adjustment? Are they going to stop drivers moving the wheel?

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#520 milestone 11

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Posted Today, 10:01

Thanks Frood.

Wem9OUk.gif



#521 Peat

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Posted Today, 10:01

Banhammer incoming. 

 

Brilliant though. 



#522 milestone 11

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Posted Today, 10:03

Banhammer incoming. 
 
Brilliant though.

Brilliant indeed.

#523 Timorous

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Posted Today, 10:03

Legal, it’s just a steering adjustment? Are they going to stop drivers moving the wheel?

 

The could stop drivers from moving the wheel along the Y axis.



#524 Goron3

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Posted Today, 10:07

This is quite possibly the most genius invention of the hybrid era.



#525 Ivanhoe

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Posted Today, 10:08

Can anyone explain what advantage it gives them? Less tyre wear? Better cornering?



#526 theflyingwheel

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Posted Today, 10:11

I believe its illegal to adjust the suspension when the car is moving but its Mercedes its Lewis, nothing happened with the tyre gate, burning oil gate, the wheel holes gate, etc,etc,etc.

Just give the tittle to Mercedes and Lewis and let the british media try to sell us how they manage to pull the miracle of being champions despite never having the strongest car.

Edited by theflyingwheel, Today, 10:14.


#527 Peat

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Posted Today, 10:14

Can anyone explain what advantage it gives them? Less tyre wear? Better cornering?

 

Similar to active aero/F-ducts - A car setup is a compromise. What's fast for a corner has a cost on a straight. Whatever they are doing here negates/reduces the cost on the straight either through wheel toe (less drag) or ride-height/pitch (dunno - i'm not an aerodynamisicist). 


Edited by Peat, Today, 10:16.


#528 milestone 11

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Posted Today, 10:15

Can anyone explain what advantage it gives them? Less tyre wear? Better cornering?

More toe gives you more straight line stability but is detrimental to cornering. Optimum is to have toe on straight and not have in the corner.

#529 Ben1445

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Posted Today, 10:17

Blatantly illegal

#530 LightningMcQueen

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Posted Today, 10:18

Blatantly illegal


Why? As someone else pointed out wheel is used to move the tyres.. and tyres are exempt from aero rules..

#531 monolulu

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Posted Today, 10:20

Blatantly illegal

Not if it’s done manually?



#532 GoldenColt

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Posted Today, 10:21

I believe its illegal to adjust the suspension when the car is moving but its Mercedes its Lewis, nothing happened with the tyre gate, burning oil gate, the wheel holes gate, etc,etc,etc.

Just give the tittle to Mercedes and Lewis and let the british media try to sell us how they manage to pull the miracle of being champions despite never having the strongest car.

You seem upset.



#533 TheGoldenStoffel

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Posted Today, 10:24

Why? As someone else pointed out wheel is used to move the tyres.. and tyres are exempt from aero rules..

 

That's the loophole I guess. Pulling the steering wheel probably only effects the tie-rods, which is exactly what a steering wheel normally does, albeit in a different direction.



#534 Ben1445

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Posted Today, 10:24

If it’s a suspension adjustment in motion it is illegal.

If it is allowed to race on a technical loophole by somehow claiming that it’s not a suspension adjustment but a steering input then it will be closed in due course.

Typical F1 stuff basically.

#535 Ben1445

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Posted Today, 10:27

Also could be an opportunistic, sacrificial development that is crazy enough to distract from other innovations whilst everyone debates wether or not it’s legal... but if it is allowed to race still gives them a benefit.

#536 onemoresolo

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Posted Today, 10:30

Genuinely can't see anything in the technical regs that would rule this out.

 

It isn't a suspension alteration, it's the toe (steering).

 

10.4 Steering :

10.4.1 Any steering system which permits the re-alignment of more than two wheels is not permitted.

10.4.2 Power assisted steering systems may not be electronically controlled or electrically powered. No such system may carry out any function other than reduce the physical effort required to steer the car.

10.4.3 No part of the steering wheel or column, nor any part fitted to them, may be closer to the driver than a plane formed by the entire rear edge of the steering wheel rim. All parts fixed to the steering wheel must be fitted in such a way as to minimise the risk of injury in the event of a driver’s head making contact with any part of the wheel assembly.

10.4.4 The steering wheel, steering column and steering rack assembly must pass an impact test, details of the test procedure may be found in Article 16.5.

 

Nothing there would (to my reading) that would make adjusting the toe on the fly illegal.

 

It's one of those ideas that is so simple, you wonder why it hasn't been done before.



#537 GoldenColt

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Posted Today, 10:31

I love what they're doing, even if it turns out to be illegal. This is F1, supposedly the pinnacle of motorsport-related technology. Getting second brake pedal-vibes rn.



#538 milestone 11

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Posted Today, 10:34

I believe its illegal to adjust the suspension when the car is moving but its Mercedes its Lewis, nothing happened with the tyre gate, burning oil gate, the wheel holes gate, etc,etc,etc.
Just give the tittle to Mercedes and Lewis and let the british media try to sell us how they manage to pull the miracle of being champions despite never having the strongest car.

This is tittle but it needs a tattle.  ;)

#539 SonGoku

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Posted Today, 10:35

Don't know if this is going to reach the first race, so I hope this is just a small thing in a strong overall package.

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#540 monolulu

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Posted Today, 10:36

I love what they're doing, even if it turns out to be illegal. This is F1, supposedly the pinnacle of motorsport-related technology. Getting second brake pedal-vibes rn.

Also they want the drivers to have more control!



#541 milestone 11

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Posted Today, 10:38

Genuinely can't see anything in the technical regs that would rule this out.

It isn't a suspension alteration, it's the toe (steering).



Nothing there would (to my reading) that would make adjusting the toe on the fly illegal.

It's one of those ideas that is so simple, you wonder why it hasn't been done before.

If anything, it's quite specifically declaring it legal. 10.4.1 says, "More than 2 wheels"

Edited by milestone 11, Today, 10:38.


#542 Sash1

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Posted Today, 10:41

I believe its illegal to adjust the suspension when the car is moving 

 

Yes, you are 100% correct. It is illegal to adjust suspension. But the thing is, they are not adjusting the suspension. So that argument is invalid.



#543 kernel

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Posted Today, 10:42

Banhammer incoming. 

 

Brilliant though. 

 

Why? It appears to be well within the scope of the existing rule set. They'd have to re-write the rules...



#544 Ben1445

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Posted Today, 10:44

Why? It appears to be well within the scope of the existing rule set. They'd have to re-write the rules...

Because they’ve never rewritten the rules....

#545 Ben1445

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Posted Today, 10:48

Their argument will likely be that whatever system is there is passively responding purely to the load applied to the front wheels...

But then that would require the drivers hand movements on the wheel to produce precisely no axial forces on the wheel/column otherwise it is not passive and...good luck to them on that one.